[Source Gaming] Is Sakurai a Liar?

No.​

For the past year and a half, Source Gaming has been collecting all the information, interviews and Famitsu columns, that it could get its' hands on. The collection of information has corrected a lot of misinformation and misconceptions within the Smash fan base. Taking information that is from only credited sources, Source Gaming is truly living up to its' name. Previously, Source Gaming has published The Definitive Unused Fighter List, Sakurai Didn't Say That!, Timeline of Masahiro Sakurai's Life and various articles detailing Sakurai's statements on various topics.

A common statement within the Smash fanbase is, 'Sakurai is a liar!' or 'Sakurai is a troll!'. PushDustIn decided to ask the community for their proof for these statements, investigate the claims and publish his findings.

For the full rundown, check out Source Gaming. This is only a preview of the full article!

1 lie.
4 cases of 'fake outs'
1 debatable cases.
12 cases of quotes being taken out of context, mistranslated or just made up.
4 cases of fans projecting their expectations.
2 cases of made up quotes/ quotes lacking sources.

Cases of Lying:
Stating that Zero-Suit Samus wasn't in Smash for Wii U/3DS, and then moments later admitting he was lying.

Cases of 'Fake Outs':
"Ness was in Smash up until now”
This quote comes from the Brawl site - Not a mistranslation, but it's not intended to sound so “definitive” (Japanese link). It just means that Ness was in all the previous Smash games up to that point. It was not a direct confirmation that Ness was or wasn’t going to be in Brawl.

Cases of Quotes Being Taken of Context:
"No DLC for Smash for Wii U/3DS"
This quote was taken out of context. Sakurai said that he and his team were not working on DLC at the time of the interview (November 19th), which for all we know, is true.

We believe that Samus is the best character in Super Smash Brothers for Wii U and 3DS"
This was in reference to the E3 invitational build (video link to the quote). This is probably his sincere opinion at the time, so it’s not a lie. On top of that, Sakurai states that he’s still balancing, so things would have changed since then.

Cases Lacking Sources:
”No more clones”
According to several threads on this topic, this is something that Sakurai has never said. In none of the Brawl interviews that Source Gaming has yet to translate, or has translated, were they able to find this. It is possible that eventually a source could turn up, but we will have to consider this misinformation since one has not been made available. According to Kinnian, it was made up by a user on Gamefaqs, and accepted as truth despite it lacking sources. This isn’t the first time we’ve seen this happen and is the reason why people should always, always ask for a source.

Some of the more infamous cases are highlighted here, but be sure to check out full rundown on Source Gaming.

This kind of research takes time. A lot of time. If you like this kind of investigative research, please consider donating to Source Gaming's patreon. Rewards include financing a particular translation or research topic, and more!

PushDustIn always sources his stuff. Do you? Follow him on Twitter for more goodness.

 

Lets just close this topic down, people are trying to move on, we don't need anymore hate.

I don't hate Sakurai, I just don't agree with his views on smash, I honestly want him to work on other games like reviving Joy mech fight.

Agreed, as long as you stop being offensive on Sakurai.

Well, that's kind of ironic to hear, since he is the creator of Smash Bros (Along with Iwata), and what's Joy mech fight? I'm not sure if he will, but I love to see him working on a new project.

 

Agreed, as long as you stop being offensive on Sakurai.

Well, that's kind of ironic to hear, since he is the creator of Smash Bros (Along with Iwata), and what's Joy mech fight? I'm not sure if he will, but I love to see him working on a new project.

I don't like him as a smash director, as a person that's a different story, he needs to move on and work on his own projects, that way he can do what he wants and not worry about the smash community.
Joy mech fight was a Japan only Famicom game made by Nintendo, it was their first fighting game with robots. It had 36 playable characters.

If Sakurai took on this franchise he could pretty much revive the series.
The only character he would really have to include is Sukapon, other than that he can get creative with the robots. There would be no too many x characters, there would be no major cuts (due to being a revival and because only one region actually got the game officially), basically he could have fun with it and fans of the game would get a revival and people in the West would get a new game.

 

O

It still baffles me how people can hate this roster when it's the biggest it's ever been. Brawl and Melee basically added all the important Nintendo characters, so the fact they added to this game honestly surprises me, but eh, what do I know, right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Maybe I'm just from a different time than all y'all, but I appreciate that we got this game and that the Smash Family has grown even more. I honestly feel like Sakurai did the best of his ability this game, and for those he couldn't, he at least acknowledged them as Mii costumes like K.Rool and Geno. I'm not a Melee baby. I'm not a Brawl baby. I'm not even that much of a Smash 4 baby... I'm just a guy that's happy that the series is continuing.

Of the cut veterans, we're only missing , with Young Link being debateable if he even left in the first place, so you know what?

Good job, Sakurai. Granted, now that I don't agree with the hate horde mentality, my opinion will probably be discarded as "Kissing Sakurai's butt", so whatever. This fanbase will never be united.

This right here, these are the kinds of comments I absolutely can't stand. The me against the world mentality, even though you know most people on this board already agree with your point of view. Someone's trying to get thise Smashboard trophies I see.
The "I appreciate the game" crap, when, despite our complaints, many of us still enjoy the game.
I hate it all, this fanbase has become so fake over the past few years it almost physically hurts to read some of this ish. Then it's followed by "if more fans were like this" comments like Sakurai's even reading this. Even if he were he'd probably cringe.

Believe it or not people, criticism makes things better, asking questions keeps people honest, and feelings of negativity when things don't go the way you hoped are perfectly natural. You guys treat Sakurai he's a sacred cow and anyone who doubts him like steaming piles of ****. Everytime someone even slightly disagrees with any of his decisions it's met by so much white knighting, you'd think he's a cute geek girl with a fat ass you're all trying to hook it up with. That's why this **** always gets out of hand, because if someone directs ANY kind of criticism his way it's always met by the riders of the high horse telling people how the correct way to act which only furthers the flame for anyone not on the "correct" side. Such fake ass BS.

So yeah, you and the 14 or so people that up voted this, get off it. Everyone appreciates Sakurai for the series we talk about on a daily basis, just cause we disagree with the decisions or think he's mislead us in the past doesn't mean we hate him. You guys are like the one parent that gets in a fight with the other, and when the kid starts crying you stop on a dime, and take the "high road" and try and turn the kid against the other parent. I see these types of up vote whoring comments way too much to take them seriously anymore.

 

I don't like him as a smash director, as a person that's a different story, he needs to move on and work on his own projects, that way he can do what he wants and not worry about the smash community.
Joy mech fight was a Japan only Famicom game made by Nintendo, it was their first fighting game with robots. It had 36 playable characters.

You should know that's a very unpopular opinion. Sakurai did very good job on Smash Bros franchise, even though there is chance that the next Smash Bros might not be work by Sakurai, I don't think a majority of people will want Sakurai to give up on making Smash Bros.

Maybe not Sakurai, but other companies that has the experience on robot games may revive Joy mech fight, like Monoliftsoft. Hell, it even has the "mech" in the game, it's just perfect.

If you asking me does Smash4 or heck even Smash Bros series has flaws? Yes, that's why I actually agree with this video below.

This right here, these are the kinds of comments I absolutely can't stand. The me against the world mentality, even though you know most people on this board already agree with your point of view. Someone's trying to get thise Smashboard trophies I see.
The "I appreciate the game" crap, when, despite our complaints, many of us still enjoy the game.
I hate it all, this fanbase has become so fake over the past few years it almost physically hurts to read some of this ish. Then it's followed by "if more fans were like this" comments like Sakurai's even reading this. Even if he were he'd probably cringe.

If you politely giving out opinions even if it isn't popular or agreed by a majority of people, maybe we will listen and respect your opinions. Please just try not to start flame wars or even make salty comments.Trust me, it's possible.

And of course we have to appreciate this game! It's possible for us to appreciate and complain about this game. As a hardcore Smash fan, yes, we can complain about some trifle things that are not perfect in this game, and as such, we can also complain while still enjoy this game.

I hate it all, this fanbase has become so fake over the past few years it almost physically hurts to read some of this ish. Then it's followed by "if more fans were like this" comments like Sakurai's even reading this. Even if he were he'd probably cringe.

You can't make sure. We only know Sakurai did once said that competitive Smash has no future, but that's an entirely different subject.

Believe it or not people, criticism makes things better, asking questions keeps people honest, and feelings of negativity when things don't go the way you hoped are perfectly natural.

Okay hear me out, I actually agreed with you only on this part. But the last part I have to inform you this: Even you have feelings of negativity doesn't mean you have to start flame wars and make salty comments.

You guys treat Sakurai he's a sacred cow and anyone who doubts him like steaming piles of ****. Everytime someone even slightly disagrees with any of his decisions it's met by so much white knighting, you'd think he's a cute geek girl with a fat *** you're all trying to hook it up with. That's why this **** always gets out of hand, because if someone directs ANY kind of criticism his way it's always met by the riders of the high horse telling people how the correct way to act which only furthers the flame for anyone not on the "correct" side. Such fake *** BS.

.....................................
This articles is just try to prove that Sakurai doesn't really lie, not to prove that he is all right. Just like the video I put above, I actually still feel pissed about Sakurai for not adding story mode cutscenes, and I even did get butthurt on DuckHunt before the games release. But even that I did get over it, and I eventually love the character. Clones, I am also pissed about that (Especially Dr.Mario [Please understand Doc fans... no offense..], and how Sakurai describe clones as a desert made me pissed before too. And as even more recently, many of us give out salt on Corrin and Bayonetta (Take Omini for example, go watch his reaction video, I didn't get mad even with his complain on those characters, because in the end of the video he still said that Sakurai did a good job on the game).
Despite all of these complaints and salts, we still have to give props to Sakurai because he did a good job on making this game, you can complain on some of his decisions, but you can't deny his entire work on Smash Bros.

After this article, just try to enjoy Smash4. It may not 100% meet your expectations. Try to be nice among the Smash community. You aren't wrong for giving out unpopular opinions, just take it easy.

So yeah, you and the 14 or so people that up voted this, get off it. Everyone appreciates Sakurai for the series we talk about on a daily basis, just cause we disagree with the decisions or think he's mislead us in the past doesn't mean we hate him. You guys are like the one parent that gets in a fight with the other, and when the kid starts crying you stop on a dime, and take the "high road" and try and turn the kid against the other parent. I see these types of up vote whoring comments way too much to take them seriously anymore.

I'm not sure who are you mentioning, but again, this article is just proving that Sakurai rarely LIES. Not proving that he's always right. And I did notice some of the users above did become a bit offensive, as a user who has the same opinions with those users I am here to apologize for their offensive comments, only "offensive" comments.
And they didn't even started this, and I even slightly get along with
[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer], I don't agree with his opinions, but I never try to harass anyone, as long as they aren't being offensive.
And to Wolf fans, yes, I also did feel disappointed when I found out that no veteran, or even Wolf, returned... but I never take Wolf's return for granted.

 

You do realize that Sakurai doesn't even write the trophy descriptions, right?

want to do some more comparisons, butt I already wrote about Wario's trophies (and the awful American translation).

That's really interesting, no I didn't realize that. He speaks no English, that much I realized, but the translations are not garbled Engrish so I assumed them to be faithful.

 

Believe it or not people, criticism makes things better, asking questions keeps people honest, and feelings of negativity when things don't go the way you hoped are perfectly natural. You guys treat Sakurai he's a sacred cow and anyone who doubts him like steaming piles of ****. Everytime someone even slightly disagrees with any of his decisions it's met by so much white knighting, you'd think he's a cute geek girl with a fat *** you're all trying to hook it up with. That's why this **** always gets out of hand, because if someone directs ANY kind of criticism his way it's always met by the riders of the high horse telling people how the correct way to act which only furthers the flame for anyone not on the "correct" side. Such fake *** BS..

Yes criticism makes things better. When it's actually constructive instead of something that could pass as an 8 year old's temper tantrum at best. It also helps when said "criticism" isn't based around misconceptions like those highlighted on various Source Gaming articles such as the one above.

 

Yes criticism makes things better. When it's actually constructive instead of something that could pass as an 8 year old's temper tantrum at best. It also helps when said "criticism" isn't based around misconceptions like those highlighted on various Source Gaming articles such as the one above.

And even with criticism, this game is still great. Even though it has some flaws, we still love the game.
Good criticism: Logically point out some flaws on Smash4 but still say the game is great.
Bad, awful criticism: Keep mentioning (Insert high fan demand character here) is not in the game, and say Sakurai is a fraud, troll, liar. Saying which mode is awful but not giving a legit, and convincing reason.And being offensive and make salty comments to other Smash fans.

 

And even with criticism, this game is still great. Even though it has some flaws, we still love the game.

Yeah.
There's no such thing as perfection and I do find myself finding areas for Smash to improve in (Single Player options and music tracks).
The only thing that really frustrates me with Smash 4 is the random loot without having a shop for buying them specifically. The trophy shop was a GREAT idea that should have been there for custom equipment, hats, costumes and custom moves. I have too many Smash coins to spend on pretty much nothing.
That said it doesn't detract from and actually gives me more reason to play the game so...

 

Why even bother having a debate if one of Sakurai's defenders just slaps on a big fat NO right before anything get's going.

I think he's a liar though.

It's an article, not a debate.

 

O
This right here, these are the kinds of comments I absolutely can't stand. The me against the world mentality, even though you know most people on this board already agree with your point of view. Someone's trying to get thise Smashboard trophies I see.
The "I appreciate the game" crap, when, despite our complaints, many of us still enjoy the game.
I hate it all, this fanbase has become so fake over the past few years it almost physically hurts to read some of this ish. Then it's followed by "if more fans were like this" comments like Sakurai's even reading this. Even if he were he'd probably cringe.

Believe it or not people, criticism makes things better, asking questions keeps people honest, and feelings of negativity when things don't go the way you hoped are perfectly natural. You guys treat Sakurai he's a sacred cow and anyone who doubts him like steaming piles of ****. Everytime someone even slightly disagrees with any of his decisions it's met by so much white knighting, you'd think he's a cute geek girl with a fat *** you're all trying to hook it up with. That's why this **** always gets out of hand, because if someone directs ANY kind of criticism his way it's always met by the riders of the high horse telling people how the correct way to act which only furthers the flame for anyone not on the "correct" side. Such fake *** BS.

So yeah, you and the 14 or so people that up voted this, get off it. Everyone appreciates Sakurai for the series we talk about on a daily basis, just cause we disagree with the decisions or think he's mislead us in the past doesn't mean we hate him. You guys are like the one parent that gets in a fight with the other, and when the kid starts crying you stop on a dime, and take the "high road" and try and turn the kid against the other parent. I see these types of up vote whoring comments way too much to take them seriously anymore.

Well, too bad if you 'can't stand it', but this is how I feel, so in your own words, "Get off it". Your attitude sucks.

I'm not even sure what you mean by 'Smash board trophies'. Are you implying that I'm only saying what I am to get likes? Because if you are, that's not only petty, but incredibly rude, thank you very much.

So what you're saying is, you're trying to discard my opinion as worthless by saying I'm only doing this for imaginary internet points. Nice. I don't see the point as to why I'd want likes. This isn't Facebook or Twitter. This is a ****ing Smash Bros site. I don't log in every day to 'collect likes'. I log in to discuss, ya know, Smash. Here's an idea, maybe people are liking my post, because we're all sick of the whining and ******** everyone is doing and just want people to play the game. 'Cause from where I'm sitting, it seems like people spend more time complaining than playing, just saying.

After the last Direct, I have seen soo much salt and unnecessary negativity in these last few weeks that it has almost made me not want to log into any Smash related sites. PushDustIn actually wrote an article about differentiating the salt from the actual complaints, and nearly everything I've seen has been of the pure salt variety after the Direct. I've seen some people actually be level headed, but the majority of it has been "WAAAAAAAAAH NO K.ROOL!" "WAAAAAAAH CORRIN IS SUCH A WASTE!" "WAAAAAAAAH BAYONETTA DIDN'T WIN THE BALLOT, IT'S A CONSPIRACY!"

So forgive me if I'm cross with this fanbase. Maybe you didn't, but I experienced the hell that was post-release Brawl, where very few people were happy with the roster, and this, this is getting to that point where we reach critical mass of salt. I've seen all this **** before. The Ridley fans, the K.Rool fans, the Krystal fans and Megaman fans at the time. EVERYONE WAS ANGRY, and no one was happy. It was a terrible time for this community. I don't even want to remember the Megaman fanbase back when it was "BUT SAKURAI SAID ONE OR TWO MORE THIRD PARTY CHARACTERS!" And the Mewtwo fans were in denial for soo long, it was sad.

So excuse me if I'm tired of grade A from a large amount of the online fanbase, but these last few weeks have been exhausting as a Smash fan. You can view my opinion however you want, hell, I even said it in my original post that people would probably think it as such, but you know what? I don't care. I don't care what you say, I don't care what anyone says, because this is how I genuinely feel, and if you can't accept that, not my problem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Yes, that's is the visual evidence and it's the only evidence we got either way.

No one misunderstands we are the minority, but the vocal minority echoes the vast majority. That's why you can reliably take statistics from a thousand or so people, and find out who's currently the favorite for presidency. It's statistics, that's why we use them.

Even then, that's only a small part of my point. You all claim that other characters are more popular then the characters that have actually shown to be popular, so where's your evidence to back that up? Until I see some actual proof, I can only assume what I know, and what I know is that Wolf, K.Rool, etc... were popular for the entire process anywhere you looked. So once again, prove all those character's fans wrong with any semblance of factual evidence, or stop making BS assumptions, because in reality we have MORE proof that those characters ARE popular then we do that they aren't.

What evidence is there that Wolf or K. Rool won? "I saw lots of supporters!" and "They won fan ballots!" aren't valid evidence because fan ballots are inaccurate and only account for a small margin of the fandom and forum support posts mean absolutely nothing. Sorry, the game's director saying Bayonetta won is a bit more concrete than "People love K. Rool on every site!".

And let's be honest; would poll data really change your mind and make you accept that Bayonetta won? What's the difference between "Bayonetta was the highest voted character in Europe and ranked Top 5 in America" and "Bayonetta got (insert number of votes here/percentage) in Europe and (insert number of votes here/percentage) in America"? They mean the same thing, and can just as easily be forged.

I don't like him as a smash director, as a person that's a different story, he needs to move on and work on his own projects, that way he can do what he wants and not worry about the smash community.
Joy mech fight was a Japan only Famicom game made by Nintendo, it was their first fighting game with robots. It had 36 playable characters.

If Sakurai took on this franchise he could pretty much revive the series.
The only character he would really have to include is Sukapon, other than that he can get creative with the robots. There would be no too many x characters, there would be no major cuts (due to being a revival and because only one region actually got the game officially), basically he could have fun with it and fans of the game would get a revival and people in the West would get a new game.

I have no idea what you're even trying to ask for at this point.

A fighting game without Nintendo characters? If that's what you want, there are dozens and dozens of alternatives out there. I don't get why Smash needs to die and get replaced with a Sakurai-directed Joy Mech game just because Wolf got cut, Ridley's a boss, and you dislike the single player modes.

Just leave Smash behind and play another fighting game. Or, hell, just pop in Brawl if Wolf's presence is this make-or-break to you. It's not like it no longer exists just because it's not the newest Smash title anymore.

 

Raise your hands if you saw a big push to vote for Smash in the people's choice.

Where was the reddit post? The SmashBoards front page post? I don't remember seeing them.

Yet, Smash won a people's choice.

(you know, people had to vote just like the Smash Ballot. Remember 1.8 million votes worldwide total for the ballot. Most online polls barely scratched 1,000. That's less than 1%.)

I think it's good evidence that:
1. A lot of people love Smash
2. The hardcore fanbase overestimates itself
3. Our polling is good at measure hardcore support but not the overall support.
4. For some reason the active online Smash fanbase is not as big as it could be. There's a lot of lurkers (I was a lurker until pre-Smash 4).

 

If you politely giving out opinions even if it isn't popular or agreed by a majority of people, maybe we will listen and respect your opinions. Please just try not to start flame wars or even make salty comments.Trust me, it's possible.

Listen man, I did that earlier, most of them were ignored. I think most of my points were solid, and well thought out, but apparently comments like that don't get attention. Whatever. What I did see is any inherently negative comment get called out by everyone and there mother, it gets old seeing the circle jerk. I know it comes across as "flamebait", I wasn't trying to make any friends with it, but I wanted people to know how they were acting in the eyes of the people they were disagreeing with.

.....................................
This articles is just try to prove that Sakurai doesn't really lie, not to prove that he is all right. Just like the video I put above, I actually still feel pissed about Sakurai for not adding story mode cutscenes, and I even did get butthurt on DuckHunt before the games release. But even that I did get over it, and I eventually love the character. Clones, I am also pissed about that (Especially Dr.Mario [Please understand Doc fans... no offense..], and how Sakurai describe clones as a desert made me pissed before too. And as even more recently, many of us give out salt on Corrin and Bayonetta (Take Omini for example, go watch his reaction video, I didn't get mad even with his complain on those characters, because in the end of the video he still said that Sakurai did a good job on the game).
Despite all of these complaints and salts, we still have to give props to Sakurai because he did a good job on making this game, you can complain on some of his decisions, but you can't deny his entire work on Smash Bros.

After this article, just try to enjoy Smash4. It may not 100% meet your expectations. Try to be nice among the Smash community. You aren't wrong for giving out unpopular opinions, just take it easy.

I like the summary, but I'm already aware of all this, and already actively do all this lol. I don't hate Sakurai, think he lied, OR stopped playing the game. I just see anyone giving out negative opinions and see them **** on for it, which is what I was calling out. This isn't about Sakurai, this is about his fans who squash any type of discussion with their closemindeness.

I'm not sure who are you mentioning, but again, this article is just proving that Sakurai rarely LIES. Not proving that he's always right. And I did notice some of the users above did become a bit offensive, as a user who has the same opinions with those users I am here to apologize for their offensive comments, only "offensive" comments.
And they didn't even started this, and I even slightly get along with
[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer], I don't agree with his opinions, but I never try to harass anyone, as long as they aren't being offensive.
And to Wolf fans, yes, I also did feel disappointed when I found out that no veteran, or even Wolf, returned... but I never take Wolf's return for granted.

Listen you're a cool dude, I apologize for the way I acted if you feel any of it was directed towards you, but I still stand by everything I said for everyone else. I just don't see why people can't say what's on there mind without getting absolutely destroyed by Sakurai fanboys every...single...time. This place has become so discouraging against any type of criticism towards their hero, and it's become too much for me.

Yes criticism makes things better. When it's actually constructive instead of something that could pass as an 8 year old's temper tantrum at best. It also helps when said "criticism" isn't based around misconceptions like those highlighted on various Source Gaming articles such as the one above.

Did you read any of my previous comments then? Nah, it's too easy to ignore any constructive criticism, because you're all too busy adding fire to easy flamebait. So yeah, I ranted and everything I said in that rant still applies to you, because your worthless comment did nothing to add to the discussion.

Well, too bad if you 'can't stand it', but this is how I feel, so in your own words, "Get off it". Your attitude sucks.

I'm not even sure what you mean by 'Smash board trophies'. Are you implying that I'm only saying what I am to get likes? Because if you are, that's not only petty, but incredibly rude, thank you very much.

So what you're saying is, you're trying to discard my opinion as worthless by saying I'm only doing this for imaginary internet points. Nice. I don't see the point as to why I'd want likes. This isn't Facebook or Twitter. This is a ****ing Smash Bros site. I don't log in every day to 'collect likes'. I log in to discuss, ya know, Smash. Here's an idea, maybe people are liking my post, because we're all sick of the whining and ******** everyone is doing and just want people to play the game. 'Cause from where I'm sitting, it seems like people spend more time complaining than playing, just saying.

After the last Direct, I have seen soo much salt and unnecessary negativity in these last few weeks that it has almost made me not want to log into any Smash related sites. PushDustIn actually wrote an article about differentiating the salt from the actual complaints, and nearly everything I've seen has been of the pure salt variety after the Direct. I've seen some people actually be level headed, but the majority of it has been "WAAAAAAAAAH NO K.ROOL!" "WAAAAAAAH CORRIN IS SUCH A WASTE!" "WAAAAAAAAH BAYONETTA DIDN'T WIN THE BALLOT, IT'S A CONSPIRACY!"

So forgive me if I'm cross with this fanbase. Maybe you didn't, but I experienced the hell that was post-release Brawl, where very few people were happy with the roster, and this, this is getting to that point where we reach critical mass of salt. I've seen all this **** before. The Ridley fans, the K.Rool fans, the Krystal fans and Megaman fans at the time. EVERYONE WAS ANGRY, and no one was happy. It was a terrible time for this community. I don't even want to remember the Megaman fanbase back when it was "BUT SAKURAI SAID ONE OR TWO MORE THIRD PARTY CHARACTERS!" And the Mewtwo fans were in denial for soo long, it was sad.

So excuse me if I'm tired of grade A from a large amount of the online fanbase, but these last few weeks have been exhausting as a Smash fan. You can view my opinion however you want, hell, I even said it in my original post that people would probably think it as such, but you know what? I don't care. I don't care what you say, I don't care what anyone says, because this is how I genuinely feel, and if you can't accept that, not my problem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I view your opinion how I said I did. I don't care if your fed up with "the hate" I'm fed up with the reverse hate, and the intolerance of any sort of criticism around here. You guys act as though everyone has to be happy with everything Sakurai does, you act as though people that aren't have no right to come to a website with likeminded fans and voice their opinion. Is it so frickin' terrible that one fan just can't be happy without their character? Things like that matter to some people, stop acting like the way you all feel has to apply to everyone else.

And yeah, your original comment comes across as fake. It's generic as hell, and I see on every Sakurai-defending article in existence. Maybe it's not, I don't know you, but it comes off that way and I see way too many people doing it just for upvotes and it's just sad.

You're happy with Sakurai, good, if you want to stay away from the negativity, don't read the comments on an article that's delving into Sakurai's honesty. Whether he lied or not, he's said and done some questionable ****, and people are going to point that out. I shouldn't have to tell you that, but here we are.

What evidence is there that Wolf or K. Rool won? "I saw lots of supporters!" and "They won fan ballots!" aren't valid evidence because fan ballots are inaccurate and only account for a small margin of the fandom and forum support posts mean absolutely nothing. Sorry, the game's director saying Bayonetta won is a bit more concrete than "People love K. Rool on every site!".

Once again, online polls, and mentions are the most evidence we got which those characters had in droves. Ignore that if you so please, but as I said earlier the minority echoes the majority, and that shows those characters were popular, maybe not the most, but a lot of you are starting to imply that they weren't all that popular at all, which is just dumb.

And let's be honest; would poll data really change your mind and make you accept that Bayonetta won? What's the difference between "Bayonetta was the highest voted character in Europe and ranked Top 5 in America" and "Bayonetta got (insert number of votes here/percentage) in Europe and (insert number of votes here/percentage) in America"? They mean the same thing, and can just as easily be forged.

Um actual numbers that you can measure to see if they add up, information not currently available for whatever reason, etc... Yes I'd believe him if he told me how the process was conducted, and gave the overall numbers to see if the results really added up to the 1.8 million he claimed, and that Japan's numbers were included. He could still lie or forge them, but I'd have no reason to believe he would, so I'd trust him.

I'm not this guy who doubts Sakurai at every turn like some of you like to believe, I just want some semblance of an idea as to how he came to these results. If he finds himself in a place that allows for criticism after the fact (ignoring Japan's results, passing over a handful of doable choices for no clear reason) he'll get it, if he doesn't it won't be mentioned again, plain and simple.

 

Raise your hands if you saw a big push to vote for Smash in the people's choice.

Where was the reddit post? The SmashBoards front page post? I don't remember seeing them.

Yet, Smash won a people's choice.

(you know, people had to vote just like the Smash Ballot. Remember 1.8 million votes worldwide total for the ballot. Most online polls barely scratched 1,000. That's less than 1%.)

I think it's good evidence that:
1. A lot of people love Smash
2. The hardcore fanbase overestimates itself
3. Our polling is good at measure hardcore support but not the overall support.
4. For some reason the active online Smash fanbase is not as big as it could be. There's a lot of lurkers (I was a lurker until pre-Smash 4).

I was a lurker as well, didn't mean I didn't share similar opinions to the majority of the online community. I don't think anyone here thinks we are the majority of fans, but you guys need to understand that our opinion most likely influences the opinions of many lurkers like you and I used to be. I don't see why that's such a foreign idea for most, but I'll continue to accept it as a large possibility until proven otherwise.

 

Listen man, I did that earlier, most of them were ignored. I think most of my points were solid, and well thought out, but apparently comments like that don't get attention. Whatever. What I did see is any inherently negative comment get called out by everyone and there mother, it gets old seeing the circle jerk. I know it comes across as "flamebait", I wasn't trying to make any friends with it, but I wanted people to know how they were acting in the eyes of the people they were disagreeing with.

I like the summary, but I'm already aware of all this, and already actively do all this lol. I don't hate Sakurai, think he lied, OR stopped playing the game. I just see anyone giving out negative opinions and see them **** on for it, which is what I was calling out. This isn't about Sakurai, this is about his fans who squash any type of discussion with their closemindeness.


Listen you're a cool dude, I apologize for the way I acted if you feel any of it was directed towards you, but I still stand by everything I said for everyone else. I just don't see why people can't say what's on there mind without getting absolutely destroyed by Sakurai fanboys every...single...time. This place has become so discouraging against any type of criticism towards their hero, and it's become too much for me.


Did you read any of my previous comments then? Nah, it's too easy to ignore any constructive criticism, because you're all too busy adding fire to easy flamebait. So yeah, I ranted and everything I said in that rant still applies to you, because your worthless comment did nothing to add to the discussion.


I view your opinion how I said I did. I don't care if your fed up with "the hate" I'm fed up with the reverse hate, and the intolerance of any sort of criticism around here. You guys act as though everyone has to be happy with everything Sakurai does, you act as though people that aren't have no right to come to a website with likeminded fans and voice their opinion. Is it so frickin' terrible that one fan just can't be happy without their character? Things like that matter to some people, stop acting like the way you all feel has to apply to everyone else.

And yeah, your original comment comes across as fake. It's generic as hell, and I see on every Sakurai-defending article in existence. Maybe it's not, I don't know you, but it comes off that way and I see way too many people doing it just for upvotes and it's just sad.

You're happy with Sakurai, good, if you want to stay away from the negativity, don't read the comments on an article that's delving into Sakurai's honesty. Whether he lied or not, he's said and done some questionable ****, and people are going to point that out. I shouldn't have to tell you that, but here we are.


Once again, online polls, and mentions are the most evidence we got which those characters had in droves. Ignore that if you so please, but as I said earlier the minority echoes the majority, and that shows those characters were popular, maybe not the most, but a lot of you are starting to imply that they weren't all that popular at all, which is just dumb.


Um actual numbers that you can measure to see if they add up, information not currently available for whatever reason, etc... Yes I'd believe him if he told me how the process was conducted, and gave the overall numbers to see if the results really added up to the 1.8 million he claimed, and that Japan's numbers were included. He could still lie or forge them, but I'd have no reason to believe he would, so I'd trust him.

I'm not this guy who doubts Sakurai at every turn like some of you like to believe, I just want some semblance of an idea as to how he came to these results. If he finds himself in a place that allows for criticism after the fact (ignoring Japan's results, passing over a handful of doable choices for no clear reason) he'll get it, if he doesn't it won't be mentioned again, plain and simple.

As far as hate goes, like I said, if it's reasonable or justified, I couldn't care less. Push posted a great article that shows the good kind of hate from the bad kind. When I say I'm 'fed up' of the hate, I'm talking about the kind of posts that I've mentioned before, namely the 'Huuur Corrin is such a waste', instead of 'This is why I dislike Corrin', or 'another anime swordsman hurrr' kind of posts. I have nothing against actual thought out upset-ness, if that even is a word, but when I see stuff like this, yes, I admit, it's quite vexing.

As far as me, I'm an easy to please kind of guy. I went into this game expecting nothing except Megaman, and I got him, so literally anything else was bonus to me, and the fact that we got cut veterans back as DLC was just icing on the cake, so no matter what, I was going to be content with this game. After Brawl, there was no way it could get worse I figured, so I walked out happy regardless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I was a lurker as well, didn't mean I didn't share similar opinions to the majority of the online community. I don't think anyone here thinks we are the majority of fans, but you guys need to understand that our opinion most likely influences the opinions of many lurkers like you and I used to be. I don't see why that's such a foreign idea for most, but I'll continue to accept it as a large possibility until proven otherwise.

There is that possibility, and its one that we shouldn't ignore. I'm not sure about large possibility. When I was a lurker on Brawl I didn't share the same opinion on character choices. Actual perctange wise it could go either way and in the end most people are probably moderate.

Either way...

I do think with the ballot (opinion):

1. Sakurai wanted a third party character
(vote for any video game character was stress repeatedly)

2. General popularity was always going to be a factor
(I know some gamers who don't know who King K Rool is. He hasn't appeared in a main game in quite a while.)

3. With regards to #1, in my opinion: rights, representation and part of Sakurai's choice led to Bayonetta.
(remember "realizable characters")

4. In my opinion it seems Sakurai approached DLC as filling boxes. We need the overall popular vet rep. We need the Melee/Brawl vet. We need the iconic 3Rd party rep. We need the FF rep. We need the upcoming game rep. We need the popular ballot winner rep.

Because of that I feel he missed out in the bigger picture in some ways. DLC roster selection doesn't feel representive of what all Smash fans would want, and that's because every piece was chosen to be optimal, piece by piece. This is probably because dlc was all picked as they went on.

This is all my opinion and shouldn't be taken as fact. It's just based on the way Sakurai has talked about DLC and my interpretation of that. He did say he was concerned with the FE reps with Corrin, so I know he at least considered the overall picture.

 

Did you read any of my previous comments then? Nah, it's too easy to ignore any constructive criticism, because you're all too busy adding fire to easy flamebait. So yeah, I ranted and everything I said in that rant still applies to you, because your worthless comment did nothing to add to the discussion.

It's you that'll want to reread what I quoted.

O
Believe it or not people, criticism makes things better, asking questions keeps people honest, and feelings of negativity when things don't go the way you hoped are perfectly natural. You guys treat Sakurai he's a sacred cow and anyone who doubts him like steaming piles of ****. Everytime someone even slightly disagrees with any of his decisions it's met by so much white knighting, you'd think he's a cute geek girl with a fat *** you're all trying to hook it up with. That's why this **** always gets out of hand, because if someone directs ANY kind of criticism his way it's always met by the riders of the high horse telling people how the correct way to act which only furthers the flame for anyone not on the "correct" side. Such fake *** BS.

You're defending anyone that criticises the game. You didn't specify a difference between the criticisms and spoiler alert! Most of the "criticisms" you speak of are in the "8 year old temper tantrums" category I mentioned.

You can criticise the game. No-one is saying you can't do so in a civil manner. What people are fed up with are "criticisms" which read as if the person is beyond angry or end up being based on misconceptions. People are also fed up with the crackpot "conspiracies" that are beyond absurd.

And way to avoid my other comment about a fairly small portion of my issues with this iteration of Smash.

 

Listen man, I did that earlier, most of them were ignored. I think most of my points were solid, and well thought out, but apparently comments like that don't get attention. Whatever. What I did see is any inherently negative comment get called out by everyone and there mother, it gets old seeing the circle jerk. I know it comes across as "flamebait", I wasn't trying to make any friends with it, but I wanted people to know how they were acting in the eyes of the people they were disagreeing with.

I feel like that's a bit of an assumption, I read it, I'm sure many others have. Maybe even internalized it. The only thing you were missing were people arguing with you about it. (And arguably forcing people into a defensive position about themselves makes them more unwilling to listen; but that's not really what I want to argue about. You're free to do things how you like, and....

Really, I don't disagree that anger and stuff gets more attention but you're understating who's actually paying attention imo.

 

Once again, online polls, and mentions are the most evidence we got which those characters had in droves. Ignore that if you so please, but as I said earlier the minority echoes the majority, and that shows those characters were popular, maybe not the most, but a lot of you are starting to imply that they weren't all that popular at all, which is just dumb.

Online polls that only reflect a very small margin of the fandom.

Are you aware that there are tons of Smash fans that don't frequent the sort of boards that fan ballots were hosted on? Are you aware that each community has different tastes, and all the fan ballots have different results?

They're not accurate. The guy who has the actual results says Bayonetta won, and no amount of forum signatures are going to change that.

You're defending anyone that criticises the game. You didn't specify a difference between the criticisms and spoiler alert! Most of the "criticisms" you speak of are in the "8 year old temper tantrums" category I mentioned.

You can criticise the game. No-one is saying you can't do so in a civil manner. What people are fed up with are "criticisms" which read as if the person is beyond angry or end up being based on misconceptions. People are also fed up with the crackpot "conspiracies" that are beyond absurd.

The guy you're talking to is one of the people you're talking about.

His posts contain the same sort of conspiracy theories as the rest of the whiners. He's saying the ballot results are false and that K. Rool or Wolf was the real winner.

It's not that he misunderstands the type of criticism everyone's referring to; he doesn't see a difference between that and the constructive stuff.

 

O
This right here, these are the kinds of comments I absolutely can't stand. The me against the world mentality, even though you know most people on this board already agree with your point of view. Someone's trying to get thise Smashboard trophies I see.
The "I appreciate the game" crap, when, despite our complaints, many of us still enjoy the game.
I hate it all, this fanbase has become so fake over the past few years it almost physically hurts to read some of this ish. Then it's followed by "if more fans were like this" comments like Sakurai's even reading this. Even if he were he'd probably cringe.

Believe it or not people, criticism makes things better, asking questions keeps people honest, and feelings of negativity when things don't go the way you hoped are perfectly natural. You guys treat Sakurai he's a sacred cow and anyone who doubts him like steaming piles of ****. Everytime someone even slightly disagrees with any of his decisions it's met by so much white knighting, you'd think he's a cute geek girl with a fat *** you're all trying to hook it up with. That's why this **** always gets out of hand, because if someone directs ANY kind of criticism his way it's always met by the riders of the high horse telling people how the correct way to act which only furthers the flame for anyone not on the "correct" side. Such fake *** BS.

So yeah, you and the 14 or so people that up voted this, get off it. Everyone appreciates Sakurai for the series we talk about on a daily basis, just cause we disagree with the decisions or think he's mislead us in the past doesn't mean we hate him. You guys are like the one parent that gets in a fight with the other, and when the kid starts crying you stop on a dime, and take the "high road" and try and turn the kid against the other parent. I see these types of up vote whoring comments way too much to take them seriously anymore.

I know. All you have to do is write a comment "I appreciate everything Sakurai has done", and you're guaranteed at least 15 likes. It's a job; it's all about $$$. If anything, Sakurai should be kissing our @$$e$.

You can't make sure. We only know Sakurai did once said that competitive Smash has no future, but that's an entirely different subject.

On that subject, I was thinking about it today and I couldn't disagree more with Sakurai on this one. If anyone is still playing a Smash game in 20 years, it is going to be Melee. People won't give a **** about Brawl or Smash 4. Melee is so deep; the only reason people care about Sm4sh is because it's new, imo.

See? we all need to be more like shroob here. If we had more people like this the smash online community wouldn't be called things like "cancerous" or "worse online community"

It isn't called that, and the Smash community would also be a lie.

It still baffles me how people can hate this roster when it's the biggest it's ever been. Brawl and Melee basically added all the important Nintendo characters, so the fact they added to this game honestly surprises me, but eh, what do I know, right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Maybe I'm just from a different time than all y'all, but I appreciate that we got this game and that the Smash Family has grown even more. I honestly feel like Sakurai did the best of his ability this game, and for those he couldn't, he at least acknowledged them as Mii costumes like K.Rool and Geno. I'm not a Melee baby. I'm not a Brawl baby. I'm not even that much of a Smash 4 baby... I'm just a guy that's happy that the series is continuing.

Of the cut veterans, we're only missing , with Young Link being debateable if he even left in the first place, so you know what?

Good job, Sakurai. Granted, now that I don't agree with the hate horde mentality, my opinion will probably be discarded as "Kissing Sakurai's butt", so whatever. This fanbase will never be united.

Bigger ≠ better. I absolutely hated this newcomer class personally. You are right; Brawl and Melee added most, but not all of the important Nintendo characters. I'm not out to get Sakurai or anything, but just as a fan of the series that's how I feel. I know it sounds crazy to call this a bad roster when it was just the old one with more added, but I didn't like what was added, and I just took it as a slap on the face.


Oh yeah; I forgot to say thank you Sakurai. Thank you for everything you have done. We got so many newcomers.

 

I don't like him as a smash director, as a person that's a different story, he needs to move on and work on his own projects, that way he can do what he wants and not worry about the smash community.
Joy mech fight was a Japan only Famicom game made by Nintendo, it was their first fighting game with robots. It had 36 playable characters.

If Sakurai took on this franchise he could pretty much revive the series.
The only character he would really have to include is Sukapon, other than that he can get creative with the robots. There would be no too many x characters, there would be no major cuts (due to being a revival and because only one region actually got the game officially), basically he could have fun with it and fans of the game would get a revival and people in the West would get a new game.

Sakurai dislikes working on sequels
'HEE GAIZ HE SHUD DO A SEEKWOOL TO DIS!'
I'm disappointed by many claims here

I know. All you have to do is write a comment "I appreciate everything Sakurai has done", and you're guaranteed at least 15 likes. It's a job; it's all about $$$. If anything, Sakurai should be kissing our @$$e$.


On that subject, I was thinking about it today and I couldn't disagree more with Sakurai on this one. If anyone is still playing a Smash game in 20 years, it is going to be Melee. People won't give a **** about Brawl or Smash 4. Melee is so deep; the only reason people care about Sm4sh is because it's new, imo.


It isn't called that, and the Smash community would also be a lie.


Bigger ≠ better. I absolutely hated this newcomer class personally. You are right; Brawl and Melee added most, but not all of the important Nintendo characters. I'm not out to get Sakurai or anything, but just as a fan of the series that's how I feel. I know it sounds crazy to call this a bad roster when it was just the old one with more added, but I didn't like what was added, and I just took it as a slap on the face.


Oh yeah; I forgot to say thank you Sakurai. Thank you for everything you have done. We got so many newcomers.

If a minor part of the fanbase refuses to touch anything but Melee, it's not Melee 'being deep'

You can have genuine complaints. Nobody stopping you. I love Sm4sh U, but it's certainly got some bad stuff. The basegame newcomers aren't as good as Brawl's, Trash Tour, bastardized Classic, tedious to unlock customs, blahblahblah. However, the pros are MUCH easier to see than the cons. THAT'S why I like the game

 

Online polls that only reflect a very small margin of the fandom.

Are you aware that there are tons of Smash fans that don't frequent the sort of boards that fan ballots were hosted on? Are you aware that each community has different tastes, and all the fan ballots have different results?

They're not accurate. The guy who has the actual results says Bayonetta won, and no amount of forum signatures are going to change that.



The guy you're talking to is one of the people you're talking about.

His posts contain the same sort of conspiracy theories as the rest of the whiners. He's saying the ballot results are false and that K. Rool or Wolf was the real winner.

It's not that he misunderstands the type of criticism everyone's referring to; he doesn't see a difference between that and the constructive stuff.

Here's how stiff like this tends to work. Wolf is popular here, a site in the Smash community, one of those people spread it into Twitter/Facebook/Reddit/YouTube/IN where it gets more attention. The more popular the character, idea, whatever is here, the more likely it is to spread, and the more publicity it gets, the more people are to get used to the idea. That's how the bandwagoning effect works, and that's why it's my belief that Wolf and K.Rool are every bit as popular as many believe them to be.

But by all means, prove it wrong. I'm open to seeing any hard evidence that suggests otherwise, but I know how these things work, which is why until then, I'll stick to my opinion.

 

If a minor part of the fanbase refuses to touch anything but Melee, it's not Melee 'being deep'

Then what is it? I just see it as the game that has the biggest future out of them all, which is the complete opposite of what Sakurai said.

 

Here's how stiff like this tends to work. Wolf is popular here, a site in the Smash community, one of those people spread it into Twitter/Facebook/Reddit/YouTube/IN where it gets more attention. The more popular the character, idea, whatever is here, the more likely it is to spread, and the more publicity it gets, the more people are to get used to the idea. That's how the bandwagoning effect works, and that's why it's my belief that Wolf and K.Rool are every bit as popular as many believe them to be.

But by all means, prove it wrong. I'm open to seeing any hard evidence that suggests otherwise, but I know how these things work, which is why until then, I'll stick to my opinion.

Burb actually voted for Wolf and was pretty upset to see him gone actually. With Wolf, there's no real reason I can think of why he wasn't back. K.Rool however, suffers from his lack of appearances throughout the years, Wolf still had Brawl which helped a lot, kids today simply don't know K.Rool, not to mention children can be stubborn, meaning if you show a kid K.Rool and then ask them to vote for whoever they want on the ballot, they aren't picking K.Rool, but who THEY want. I hope I didn't butcher this

 

Then what is it? I just see it as the game that has the biggest future out of them all, which is the complete opposite of what Sakurai said.

Are you thinking of the 'competitive smash has no future' thing? That was a mistranslation, it was more of 'if we focus only on the competitive fans, Smash will have no future'
The stereotypical Melee fanbase refuse to play something that isn't exactly like Melee. It's not that the game is objectively the best and will always be so, but more that they refuse to try something different. Fun fact: Brawl sold more than Melee and Sma4sh sold more than Brawl, with Sm4sh 3DS selling the most copies. Out of 5 different consoles, Melee has 4th spot. I don't call that 'having the biggest future'

 

I know. All you have to do is write a comment "I appreciate everything Sakurai has done", and you're guaranteed at least 15 likes. It's a job; it's all about $$$. If anything, Sakurai should be kissing our @$$e$.


On that subject, I was thinking about it today and I couldn't disagree more with Sakurai on this one. If anyone is still playing a Smash game in 20 years, it is going to be Melee. People won't give a **** about Brawl or Smash 4. Melee is so deep; the only reason people care about Sm4sh is because it's new, imo.


It isn't called that, and the Smash community would also be a lie.


Bigger ≠ better. I absolutely hated this newcomer class personally. You are right; Brawl and Melee added most, but not all of the important Nintendo characters. I'm not out to get Sakurai or anything, but just as a fan of the series that's how I feel. I know it sounds crazy to call this a bad roster when it was just the old one with more added, but I didn't like what was added, and I just took it as a slap on the face.


Oh yeah; I forgot to say thank you Sakurai. Thank you for everything you have done. We got so many newcomers.

it actually is called those names and many people know this

 

Burb actually voted for Wolf and was pretty upset to see him gone actually. With Wolf, there's no real reason I can think of why he wasn't back. K.Rool however, suffers from his lack of appearances throughout the years, Wolf still had Brawl which helped a lot, kids today simply don't know K.Rool, not to mention children can be stubborn, meaning if you show a kid K.Rool and then ask them to vote for whoever they want on the ballot, they aren't picking K.Rool, but who THEY want. I hope I didn't butcher this

Burb has guts, based on how he posts I never would have guessed that's how he really feels. I wonder if he's into FilthyFrank.

Here's how stiff like this tends to work. Wolf is popular here, a site in the Smash community, one of those people spread it into Twitter/Facebook/Reddit/YouTube/IN where it gets more attention. The more popular the character, idea, whatever is here, the more likely it is to spread, and the more publicity it gets, the more people are to get used to the idea. That's how the bandwagoning effect works, and that's why it's my belief that Wolf and K.Rool are every bit as popular as many believe them to be.

But by all means, prove it wrong. I'm open to seeing any hard evidence that suggests otherwise, but I know how these things work, which is why until then, I'll stick to my opinion.

Heck its all thanks to smashified that Shovel Knight gained so much momentum. I also find it hard to believe that kids would know of Bayonetta more than some of the other characters. Don't forget there was also high demand for Bandanna Dee in both the West and East as well as Dixie Kong.

 

Are you thinking of the 'competitive smash has no future' thing? That was a mistranslation, it was more of 'if we focus only on the competitive fans, Smash will have no future'
The stereotypical Melee fanbase refuse to play something that isn't exactly like Melee. It's not that the game is objectively the best and will always be so, but more that they refuse to try something different. Fun fact: Brawl sold more than Melee and Sma4sh sold more than Brawl, with Sm4sh 3DS selling the most copies. Out of 5 different consoles, Melee has 4th spot. I don't call that 'having the biggest future'

No, they try the other games. I don't think Melee fans are as critical as you make them out to be. It's just one big Smash family, and they like Melee most. There is no dividing line of Melee players vs. Sm4sh players, etc. They even overlap sometimes. If Smash 5 exists, it will outsell Smash 4, etc.; it doesn't really have anything to do with how good they are. I just think Melee has the biggest future because the gameplay is so deep; sales don't matter.

 

No, they try the other games. I don't think Melee fans are as critical as you make them out to be. It's just one big Smash family, and they like Melee most. There is no dividing line of Melee players vs. Sm4sh players, etc. They even overlap sometimes. If Smash 5 exists, it will outsell Smash 4, etc.; it doesn't really have anything to do with how good they are. I just think Melee has the biggest future because the gameplay is so deep; sales don't matter.

The amount of sales kinda does matter. Higher sales = larger amount of people who bought and thus, played the game. Not to mention Melee's reviews were lower than Brawl and 4. Considering the amount of idiots I've seen saying a smash game without L cancelling is trash and stuff like that, I don't think I need to see anything else. Melee's competitive scene has been going for more than a decade. Brawl's was almost nonexistent and Sm4sh has about what? A year and a half? it's been around longer, not 'more deep'

 

The amount of sales kinda does matter. Higher sales = larger amount of people who bought and thus, played the game. Not to mention Melee's reviews were lower than Brawl and 4. Considering the amount of idiots I've seen saying a smash game without L cancelling is trash and stuff like that, I don't think I need to see anything else. Melee's competitive scene has been going for more than a decade. Brawl's was almost nonexistent and Sm4sh has about what? A year and a half? it's been around longer, not 'more deep'

Population growth.

No one cares what some reporter at IGN had to say about it, plus, every Smash game got equal critical praise.

The combat is definitely more deep. I don't get how this can be disputed. Sakurai purposely removed many of the advanced techniques from later installments.

Smash 64 has been around longer but Melee is still more popular than it right now. You'll see, as time moves on. Melee already overshadowing Brawl.

I'm not saying there's a problem with it, but the general impression I get from this thread is Melee hate, Sm4sh praise, K. Rool/Ridley/Banjo/Shovel Knight hate and Corrin/Bayonetta praise. Lol wut?

 

On that subject, I was thinking about it today and I couldn't disagree more with Sakurai on this one. If anyone is still playing a Smash game in 20 years, it is going to be Melee. People won't give a **** about Brawl or Smash 4. Melee is so deep; the only reason people care about Sm4sh is because it's new, imo.

That statement can't be suitable on some players, some players may decide to play Melee competitively can play Smash4 semi-competitively. I had played Melee for a decade because I personally think that Smash4 is more balanced, and has more variety of characters, but that's just me.
Melee has a huge esports community, whereas Smash4 is only continue to grow.

Raise your hands if you saw a big push to vote for Smash in the people's choice.

Where was the reddit post? The SmashBoards front page post? I don't remember seeing them.

Yet, Smash won a people's choice.

(you know, people had to vote just like the Smash Ballot. Remember 1.8 million votes worldwide total for the ballot. Most online polls barely scratched 1,000. That's less than 1%.)

I think it's good evidence that:
1. A lot of people love Smash
2. The hardcore fanbase overestimates itself
3. Our polling is good at measure hardcore support but not the overall support.
4. For some reason the active online Smash fanbase is not as big as it could be. There's a lot of lurkers (I was a lurker until pre-Smash 4).

Even without this vote, Smash Bros is still a game everyone loves, no matter your are a casual gamer or a competitive player.

Listen man, I did that earlier, most of them were ignored. I think most of my points were solid, and well thought out, but apparently comments like that don't get attention. Whatever. What I did see is any inherently negative comment get called out by everyone and there mother, it gets old seeing the circle jerk. I know it comes across as "flamebait", I wasn't trying to make any friends with it, but I wanted people to know how they were acting in the eyes of the people they were disagreeing with.

I guess it takes time, maybe you have to step down just for a moment... chances are you will get stuck in the mud.
Well, I may try to check your previous posts to see if some users claims that you always keep mentioning things that are uncertain, like the ballot. Okay, maybe it wasn't you, but there were many users keep mentioning the ballot, and led to a conclusion that Sakurai lies, I don't say it's wrong but it's uncertain.

I like the summary, but I'm already aware of all this, and already actively do all this lol. I don't hate Sakurai, think he lied, OR stopped playing the game. I just see anyone giving out negative opinions and see them **** on for it, which is what I was calling out. This isn't about Sakurai, this is about his fans who squash any type of discussion with their closemindeness.

One more time, it's because some of those negative opinions were often rude and even inappropriate. What I can't accept is that some users mock Sakurai and fully deny his work on Smash. Some of their opinions are harassing, not criticizing.
And if you still don't know, I also used to think that Sakurai is a liar, but I take that as a consideration that he is a magician, you never know what awesome stuff that is gonna come out of his magic hat (Or wand lol), I never take people consider him as a liar negatively.

Listen you're a cool dude, I apologize for the way I acted if you feel any of it was directed towards you, but I still stand by everything I said for everyone else. I just don't see why people can't say what's on there mind without getting absolutely destroyed by Sakurai fanboys every...single...time. This place has become so discouraging against any type of criticism towards their hero, and it's become too much for me.

I'm really sorry when that happens to you. That's because Sakurai
is worth of being praised for, you can't deny that. But denying his entire work for Smash and even hoping him to stop making Smash Bros is unacceptable not only for Sakurai fans, but a majority of Smash fans.
And oh yeah, thanks for calling cool dude, I mean... I just hope every Smash fans can stick together, that's all.

I know. All you have to do is write a comment "I appreciate everything Sakurai has done", and you're guaranteed at least 15 likes. It's a job; it's all about $$$. If anything, Sakurai should be kissing our @$$e$.

Not just getting likes, but showing respect to Sakurai. And can add your unpopular criticism but still thinks that Sakurai did a great job on the game.

Bigger ≠ better. I absolutely hated this newcomer class personally. You are right; Brawl and Melee added most, but not all of the important Nintendo characters. I'm not out to get Sakurai or anything, but just as a fan of the series that's how I feel. I know it sounds crazy to call this a bad roster when it was just the old one with more added, but I didn't like what was added, and I just took it as a slap on the face.


Oh yeah; I forgot to say thank you Sakurai. Thank you for everything you have done. We got so many newcomers.

There are complains on the roster is too huge, even for the starter roster, this makes the game rather boring when it comes to unlocking characters, there's no real challenge in it. <<See? Criticism!
But still, the roster is huge and has so many options and potential, even though clones characters, and cut veterans made this roster seemingly unperfect, it's still the best roster I've ever seen.

And I hope the last quote is out from your heart...

Sakurai dislikes working on sequels
'HEE GAIZ HE SHUD DO A SEEKWOOL TO DIS!'
I'm disappointed by many claims here

Hey, I'm here who also agrees that Sakurai should work on other games. He revived Kid Icarus, so why not other games?

Heck its all thanks to smashified that Shovel Knight gained so much momentum. I also find it hard to believe that kids would know of Bayonetta more than some of the other characters. Don't forget there was also high demand for Bandanna Dee in both the West and East as well as Dixie Kong.

Oh please, don't get me on Bandanna Dee, he was one of my brother's most requested character. The other one that he used to think will never make it.... believe it or not, was Corrin (He's a huge FE fan).

No one cares what some reporter at IGN had to say about it, plus, every Smash game got equal critical praise.

So... why did you just say Melee is deep? Times issues I guess? If you didn't check my post on a thread asking will Smash4 reach Melee status, I only say:

Only time will tell.

 

Population growth.

No one cares what some reporter at IGN had to say about it, plus, every Smash game got equal critical praise.

The combat is definitely more deep. I don't get how this can be disputed. Sakurai purposely removed many of the advanced techniques from later installments.

Smash 64 has been around longer but Melee is still more popular than it right now. You'll see, as time moves on. Melee already overshadowing Brawl.

I'm not saying there's a problem with it, but the general impression I get from this thread is Melee hate, Sm4sh praise, K. Rool/Ridley/Banjo/Shovel Knight hate and Corrin/Bayonetta praise. Lol wut?

First of all, K.Rool, Ridley and Shovel Knight are all characters I'd love to see become playable. Second, excuuuuse me, for not thinking a game that has not been changed for over a decade with the same 6 or so characters being used is 'super deep'. You want advanced techniques? Go to a character thread on the Sm4sh boards. Monado Art Landing Lag Cancel, Limit Break Cancel, Ryu's Focus Attack shenanigans. Perfect Pivoting, blablablah. It's not even something that applies to the whole cast anymore, so if anything, I'd daresay it's got more advanced techniques than Melee

 

Population growth.

No one cares what some reporter at IGN had to say about it, plus, every Smash game got equal critical praise.

The combat is definitely more deep. I don't get how this can be disputed. Sakurai purposely removed many of the advanced techniques from later installments.

Smash 64 has been around longer but Melee is still more popular than it right now. You'll see, as time moves on. Melee already overshadowing Brawl.

I'm not saying there's a problem with it, but the general impression I get from this thread is Melee hate, Sm4sh praise, K. Rool/Ridley/Banjo/Shovel Knight hate and Corrin/Bayonetta praise. Lol wut?

I hate how any fanbase who's character doesn't get into smash gets instantly shunned. They then claim that their characters aren't important and nobody likes them. If the smash community just had people complaining about why their character didn't get in, it would generally last for a short time. However with all the people trying to claim that those people are in the wrong, it keeps the flame wars going, I believe its psychology that you're more likely to want to achieve something if people tell you you won't be able to do it, where as you'll be less inclined to achieve it if people tell you that you can do it. (I'm not 100% on this, so don't quote me on that if there are some facts wrong.)

 

I hate how any fanbase who's character doesn't get into smash gets instantly shunned. They then claim that their characters aren't important and nobody likes them. If the smash community just had people complaining about why their character didn't get in, it would generally last for a short time. However with all the people trying to claim that those people are in the wrong, it keeps the flame wars going, I believe its psychology that you're more likely to want to achieve something if people tell you you won't be able to do it, where as you'll be less inclined to achieve it if people tell you that you can do it. (I'm not 100% on this, so don't quote me on that if there are some facts wrong.)

Wanting a character doesn't deserve you getting shunned. It's how you react to it. For instance, Geno fans got shunned after Cloud got confirmed due to them saying 'THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN GENO RAAAAAA'. Banjo fans got shunned for saying 'PHIL SAID IT WAS OKAY SAKURAI YOU MORON DIE IN A FIRE!' etc.

 

If you have something I missed, then let me know.

I have no problems with the article, I'm just chuckling at how you started it.

 

I have no problems with the article, I'm just chuckling at how you started it.

Originally, I didn't have that "No" but the unfortunate reality was that people weren't even reading what I wrote and accused me of calling Sakurai a Liar.

mario123007 if you realize Smash is a game everyone loves then you can see how the Smash ballot reached a lot of people and not just the 2,000 people that voted in the same polls over and over again, right? Just saying that the polls aren't accurate and its dangerous to assume one character is, or isn't popular among Smash users as we don't have an accurate picture.

 

Originally, I didn't have that "No" but the unfortunate reality was that people weren't even reading what I wrote and accused me of calling Sakurai a Liar.

mario123007 if you realize Smash is a game everyone loves then you can see how the Smash ballot reached a lot of people and not just the 2,000 people that voted in the same polls over and over again, right? Just saying that the polls aren't accurate and its dangerous to assume one character is, or isn't popular among Smash users as we don't have an accurate picture.

Hey Push do you know Filthy Frank?

Wanting a character doesn't deserve you getting shunned. It's how you react to it. For instance, Geno fans got shunned after Cloud got confirmed due to them saying 'THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN GENO RAAAAAA'. Banjo fans got shunned for saying 'PHIL SAID IT WAS OKAY SAKURAI YOU MORON DIE IN A FIRE!' etc.

Its been a few months now its time to welcome them back.

Sakurai dislikes working on sequels

*Cough* *Cough* Kid Icarus Uprising *Cough* *Cough*
Besides I said it would be more of a revival than a sequel heck the original was Japan only so a revival of the game would be like a brand new game to all the other regions.

 

Such a clickbait article lol

but clickbait is an article with the headline having nothing to do with the contents of the actual article. this doesn't do that, therefore it isn't clickbait in the slightest.

 

So... why did you just say Melee is deep? Times issues I guess?

Because it is deep? Combat-wise (advanced techniques). I'm confused. I don't get what you're saying.

Wanting a character doesn't deserve you getting shunned. It's how you react to it. For instance, Geno fans got shunned after Cloud got confirmed due to them saying 'THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN GENO RAAAAAA'. Banjo fans got shunned for saying 'PHIL SAID IT WAS OKAY SAKURAI YOU MORON DIE IN A FIRE!' etc.

He means since Geno is deconfirmed people are suddenly hating on the character and saying that he is useless and not relevant anymore. It's the curse of any popular character not included in Smash Bros. You suddenly see people hating on Shantae, Shovel Knight, Banjo, Wolf, K. Rool... you know; the characters people actually wanted. But now they're uncool for some reason.


It's sad Smash fans are so worshiping of Sakurai and butthurt so easily that Dustin has to put that giant NO. at the beginning of the article. Sakurai should be a character in Smash 5. He could have many different forms. 1st is normal, then Pinocchio form and finally sacred cow form.

You guys know I'm not one to kiss Sakurai's feet, but that picture of Pinocchio needs to go.

 

Because it is deep? Combat-wise (advanced techniques). I'm confused. I don't get what you're saying.

I think Melee has more solid fanbase it's because how old Melee is, and it's the game that stablize the serie's status as it is today.
Smash4 is catching up, and I'm sure over the next two years, Smash4 might be as big as Melee.

if you realize Smash is a game everyone loves then you can see how the Smash ballot reached a lot of people and not just the 2,000 people that voted in the same polls over and over again, right? Just saying that the polls aren't accurate and its dangerous to assume one character is, or isn't popular among Smash users as we don't have an accurate picture.

Exactly, and we only get one character that is base on the ballot, Sakurai can't satisfy everyone.

Hey Push do you know Filthy Frank?

That's just a Youtuber who makes comedy and humorous videos, never had taken his videos seriously.