[Source Gaming] Is Sakurai a Liar?

No.​

For the past year and a half, Source Gaming has been collecting all the information, interviews and Famitsu columns, that it could get its' hands on. The collection of information has corrected a lot of misinformation and misconceptions within the Smash fan base. Taking information that is from only credited sources, Source Gaming is truly living up to its' name. Previously, Source Gaming has published The Definitive Unused Fighter List, Sakurai Didn't Say That!, Timeline of Masahiro Sakurai's Life and various articles detailing Sakurai's statements on various topics.

A common statement within the Smash fanbase is, 'Sakurai is a liar!' or 'Sakurai is a troll!'. PushDustIn decided to ask the community for their proof for these statements, investigate the claims and publish his findings.

For the full rundown, check out Source Gaming. This is only a preview of the full article!

1 lie.
4 cases of 'fake outs'
1 debatable cases.
12 cases of quotes being taken out of context, mistranslated or just made up.
4 cases of fans projecting their expectations.
2 cases of made up quotes/ quotes lacking sources.

Cases of Lying:
Stating that Zero-Suit Samus wasn't in Smash for Wii U/3DS, and then moments later admitting he was lying.

Cases of 'Fake Outs':
"Ness was in Smash up until now”
This quote comes from the Brawl site - Not a mistranslation, but it's not intended to sound so “definitive” (Japanese link). It just means that Ness was in all the previous Smash games up to that point. It was not a direct confirmation that Ness was or wasn’t going to be in Brawl.

Cases of Quotes Being Taken of Context:
"No DLC for Smash for Wii U/3DS"
This quote was taken out of context. Sakurai said that he and his team were not working on DLC at the time of the interview (November 19th), which for all we know, is true.

We believe that Samus is the best character in Super Smash Brothers for Wii U and 3DS"
This was in reference to the E3 invitational build (video link to the quote). This is probably his sincere opinion at the time, so it’s not a lie. On top of that, Sakurai states that he’s still balancing, so things would have changed since then.

Cases Lacking Sources:
”No more clones”
According to several threads on this topic, this is something that Sakurai has never said. In none of the Brawl interviews that Source Gaming has yet to translate, or has translated, were they able to find this. It is possible that eventually a source could turn up, but we will have to consider this misinformation since one has not been made available. According to Kinnian, it was made up by a user on Gamefaqs, and accepted as truth despite it lacking sources. This isn’t the first time we’ve seen this happen and is the reason why people should always, always ask for a source.

Some of the more infamous cases are highlighted here, but be sure to check out full rundown on Source Gaming.

This kind of research takes time. A lot of time. If you like this kind of investigative research, please consider donating to Source Gaming's patreon. Rewards include financing a particular translation or research topic, and more!

PushDustIn always sources his stuff. Do you? Follow him on Twitter for more goodness.

 

Do you ever learn?
Geno isn't owned by Nintendo, he's owned by SE. Sakurai says as much in regards to his Mii Costume during the final presentation. He isn't on the same level as any Nintendo character.
He's a third party Mario character and with the series gaining some more rising stars like Nabbit and some of the old crowd like Daisy, Waluigi and Paper Mario still waiting there are far easier options to go with for someone from the Mario series.

He is different from the other 3rd parties because of him never being outside of Nintendo franchise and his whole history was with Nintendo, just because he is owned by Square-Enix doesn't mean he won't be counted as a Mario rep plus he never got his own game or even appearing in any square-Enix franchise so he still stays with the Nintendo character franchise list because he is a Nintendo history character, And also I already said that Sakurai did list Geno in the Mario characters list instead of the 3rd party characters list in his melee poll wich is a big proof that shows Geno is in the same level as any other Nintendo character.

 

He is different from the other 3rd parties because of him never being outside of Nintendo franchise and his whole history was with Nintendo, just because he is owned by Square-Enix doesn't mean he won't be counted as a Mario rep plus he never got his own game or even appearing in any square-Enix franchise so he still stays with the Nintendo character franchise list because he is a Nintendo history character, And also I already said that Sakurai did list Geno in the Mario characters list instead of the 3rd party characters list in his melee poll wich is a big proof that shows Geno is in the same level as any other Nintendo character.

It's just a poll...it isn't a legit proof...
And like I had said before, Geno is owned by SE, Super Mario RPG is made by SE.

And all in all, we already have a Mii costume of Geno, what's the point of bragging?

 

He is different from the other 3rd parties because of him never being outside of Nintendo franchise and his whole history was with Nintendo, just because he is owned by Square-Enix doesn't mean he won't be counted as a Mario rep plus he never got his own game or even appearing in any square-Enix franchise so he still stays with the Nintendo character franchise list because he is a Nintendo history character, And also I already said that Sakurai did list Geno in the Mario characters list instead of the 3rd party characters list in his melee poll wich is a big proof that shows Geno is in the same level as any other Nintendo character.

No he's not different from other third parties.
Cloud and Snake had so much Nintendo history when they were added right? Both characters are more synonymous with PlayStation. Snake's design is from MGS2 and MGS3 both of which were PS exclusive as of Brawl. Cloud marks when SE jumped ship to PlayStation because the N64 still used Cartridges.
If Nintendo History meant squat then Snake and Cloud wouldn't be in. We'd have Simon Belmont or Bomberman and a pre-FFVII character like Terra, Kefka, Cecil or even a Black Mage instead.

I never said Geno won't be counted under the Mario umbrella. Just that he's a THIRD PARTY MARIO CHARACTER. That is a strong point against Geno, especially when Waluigi, Daisy, Paper Mario, Nabbit and Captain Toad exist. It's far easier to get those characters than to go to SE.

It's not proof of anything. Melee was 15 years ago and Sakurai (or whoever directs next time) would still have to go through SE to get Geno. He's not on the level of any Nintendo character for that reason. Geno shouldn't even be compared with Nintendo characters because he's an SE character. He should be compared to other third parties.

See? "Another Mii Fighter costume FROM SQUARE ENIX"

 

As much as I love Geno he is indeed a 3rd-party Mario rep. What an odd circumstance.

^ Waluigi, Daisy and Nabbit are never going to get into Smash imo.

 

It's just a poll...it isn't a legit proof...
And like I had said before, Geno is owned by SE, Super Mario RPG is made by SE.

And all in all, we already have a Mii costume of Geno, what's the point of bragging?

Well the poll is official and it was made by sakurai so it's legit proof.
I already know he is owned by Square Enix why do people repeat this to me a lot of Times?
SMRPG was developed by square Enix but it's still a Nintendo franchise just like Diddy kong being created by rareware (I know they don't own him but still) but he is still a Nintendo franchise character that never leaved Nintendo console.

No he's not different from other third parties.
Cloud and Snake had so much Nintendo history when they were added right? Both characters are more synonymous with PlayStation. Snake's design is from MGS2 and MGS3 both of which were PS exclusive as of Brawl. Cloud marks when SE jumped ship to PlayStation because the N64 still used Cartridges.
If Nintendo History meant squat then Snake and Cloud wouldn't be in. We'd have Simon Belmont or Bomberman and a pre-FFVII character like Terra, Kefka, Cecil or even a Black Mage instead.

I never said Geno won't be counted under the Mario umbrella. Just that he's a THIRD PARTY MARIO CHARACTER. That is a strong point against Geno, especially when Waluigi, Daisy, Paper Mario, Nabbit and Captain Toad exist. It's far easier to get those characters than to go to SE.

It's not proof of anything. Melee was 15 years ago and Sakurai (or whoever directs next time) would still have to go through SE to get Geno. He's not on the level of any Nintendo character for that reason. Geno shouldn't even be compared with Nintendo characters because he's an SE character. He should be compared to other third parties.

View attachment 91558

See? "Another Mii Fighter costume FROM SQUARE ENIX"

What are you talking about? Snake and Cloud aren't [Mario characters/Nintendo only history characters] and they are the same as any other 3rd party characters.

I am not going to start to talk about the other Mario characters that your talking about because I came here only to talk about one thing.

How is this not a proof when it's an official poll? Yep he would but he would still be counted as Mario rep and would be listed with the Mario characters in the roster and not with Megaman and other 3rd parties, he can be compared because the list showed this and his whole history was only with Nintendo games and never appeared outside of them just like any Nintendo character that you see normally.

 

How is this not a proof when it's an official poll? Yep he would but he would still be counted as Mario rep and would be listed with the Mario characters in the roster and not with Megaman and other 3rd parties, he can be compared because the list showed this and his whole history was only with Nintendo games and never appeared outside of them just like any Nintendo character that you see normally.

He probably would be listed with the 3rd party reps even though he shouldn't be. The disorganization of the CSS is really weird.

 

He probably would be listed with the 3rd party reps even though he shouldn't be. The disorganization of the CSS is really weird.

But how??? http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/03/23/if-there-were-a-smash-2-poll/ there was a list for 3rd party characters and Geno was a part of Mario seires characters instead of 3rd party characters list, it clearly shows that he would be counted as a Mario rep.

 

What are you talking about? Snake and Cloud aren't [Mario characters/Nintendo only history characters] and they are the same as any other 3rd party characters.

You keep on bringing up "muh Nintendo history!"
They're both evidence that it means jack ****. You can spin Geno's circumstances all you like. It doesn't change that he's owned by Square Enix and as such a third party character.

I am not going to start to talk about the other Mario characters that your talking about because I came here only to talk about one thing.

You see, if you're going to treat Geno as a Mario character whilst ignoring the SE problem then you need to compare him with other Mario characters.
What do all of those characters have that Geno doesn't?
More than 1 appearance as playable characters, recency and relevancy to Mario as a whole (the go-to spin-off characters, Mario himself, Nabbit getting the Rosalina treatment and Cptain Toad being a prominent, named Toad). Geno couldn't even get into Hoops 3 on 3, Fortune Street or Sports Mix despite them being SE made Mario games. inb4 "but Geno should have a grand return!"

How is this not a proof when it's an official poll? Yep he would but he would still be counted as Mario rep and would be listed with the Mario characters in the roster and not with Megaman and other 3rd parties, he can be compared because the list showed this and his whole history was only with Nintendo games and never appeared outside of them just like any Nintendo character that you see normally.

No-one's arguing that Geno wouldn't be listed as a Mario character or his placement. The issue is your ignorance to the fact that being a Mario character doesn't change a thing about Geno being third party.
It doesn't matter if he's a Mario character when he's still owned by a third party. No-one compares any Xenoblade character with Xenosaga or Xenogear characters in terms of Smash because despite being a part of the same "Xeno" series as the former they're not owned by Nintendo. PXZ2 is evidence of this by partnering KOS-MOS (Xenosaga) with Fiora (Xenoblade). Geno isn't this special snowflake you want him to be. He is a third party character and he will be treated as such unless Nintendo buy him (and every other part of SMRPG) off of SE for whatever reason.

Everyone constantly tells you that Geno is owned by SE because you ignore this with your arguments for the sake of your convenience.

 

You keep on bringing up "muh Nintendo history!"
They're both evidence that it means jack ****. You can spin Geno's circumstances all you like. It doesn't change that he's owned by Square Enix and as such a third party character.



You see, if you're going to treat Geno as a Mario character whilst ignoring the SE problem then you need to compare him with other Mario characters.
What do all of those characters have that Geno doesn't?
More than 1 appearance as playable characters, recency and relevancy to Mario as a whole (the go-to spin-off characters, Mario himself, Nabbit getting the Rosalina treatment and Cptain Toad being a prominent, named Toad). Geno couldn't even get into Hoops 3 on 3, Fortune Street or Sports Mix despite them being SE made Mario games. inb4 "but Geno should have a grand return!"



No-one's arguing that Geno wouldn't be listed as a Mario character or his placement. The issue is your ignorance to the fact that being a Mario character doesn't change a thing about Geno being third party.
It doesn't matter if he's a Mario character when he's still owned by a third party. No-one compares any Xenoblade character with Xenosaga or Xenogear characters in terms of Smash because despite being a part of the same "Xeno" series as the former they're not owned by Nintendo. PXZ2 is evidence of this by partnering KOS-MOS (Xenosaga) with Fiora (Xenoblade). Geno isn't this special snowflake you want him to be. He is a third party character and he will be treated as such unless Nintendo buy him (and every other part of SMRPG) off of SE for whatever reason.

Everyone constantly tells you that Geno is owned by SE because you ignore this with your arguments for the sake of your convenience.

He is a square Enix character I know but he would still be counted as Mario rep as the poll list does shows that it is.

I already said I won't start going to talk about that because it would change the whole thing that I am talking about right now.

I am not ignorance because i still give reasons and I try to understand what your telling me.
Xenonblade is a Nintendo franchise the other 2 aren't there is a difference, SMRPG are just like any normal Mario character in terms of history and being being treated the same was as any Nintendo characters for not going outside of Nintendo console and keep there history only with Nintendo games so they could be counted as a Mario rep as well, SMRPG is a Nintendo franchise.

 

He is a square Enix character I know but he would still be counted as Mario rep as the poll list does shows that it is.

I already said I won't start going to talk about that because it would change the whole thing that I am talking about right now.

I am not ignorance because i still give reasons and I try to understand what your telling me.
Xenonblade is a Nintendo franchise the other 2 aren't there is a difference, SMRPG are just like any normal Mario character in terms of history and being being treated the same was as any Nintendo characters for not going outside of Nintendo console and keep there history only with Nintendo games so they could be counted as a Mario rep as well, SMRPG is a Nintendo franchise.

You're ignorant because you ALWAYS use the same arguments after they get debunked. You CLEARLY don't understand what Qrow means by saying Geno can't be compared to a Nintendo character

 

He is a square Enix character I know but he would still be counted as Mario rep as the poll list does shows that it is.

I already said I won't start going to talk about that because it would change the whole thing that I am talking about right now.

I am not ignorance because i still give reasons and I try to understand what your telling me.
Xenonblade is a Nintendo franchise the other 2 aren't there is a difference, SMRPG are just like any normal Mario character in terms of history and being being treated the same was as any Nintendo characters for not going outside of Nintendo console and keep there history only with Nintendo games so they could be counted as a Mario rep as well, SMRPG is a Nintendo franchise.

No one's refuting that first point that he'd be a Mario character.

Xenoblade is the Nintendo owned portion of the Xeno series just like SMRPG is literally 97% SE content.

Any character from that game that isn't Mario, Peach, Bowser, a few Toads and a small portion of the enemies and setting is third party.
They're not like any "normal" Mario character because the "normal" Mario characters are actually owned by Nintendo. That is why Geno can't be treated like any other Nintendo character. Because they don't own him.

 

But how??? http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/03/23/if-there-were-a-smash-2-poll/ there was a list for 3rd party characters and Geno was a part of Mario seires characters instead of 3rd party characters list, it clearly shows that he would be counted as a Mario rep.

Maybe that was from the time when Nintendo and Square were still cool? But yeah; I wouldn't take that poll as anything official.

He is both a 3rd party character and a Mario rep, so it could go either way, but methinks 3rd party has precedence over the Mario franchise.

Btw, I love that poll. Maybe that's why I'm so salty; because I'm stuck in 1999.

That's really interesting that King Dedede didn't make it into Melee, despite his staggering number of votes.

---

Now I'm getting dangerously off-topic, but I was reading the list of unused fighters (http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/04/13/the-definitive-unused-fighters-list-in-smash/), and came across this quote:

The first game in the series, Super Smash Brothers 64 was developed with a low-budget, and few staff members. Even though it seems common sense now, Smash was not seen as a promising franchise as Nintendo was wary that people would not enjoy a crossover fighting game featuring their mascots.

You cannot be serious; this just further solidifies Nintendo's straight ignorance to me.

Furthermore, Masahiro Sakurai attempted to revolutionize the fighting genre as he got rid of complex button inputs and lifeboats.

I can't lie; this is pretty genius right here. Big props to Sakurai on this one. This is why Smash is so fun and accessible.

Sakurai confirmed that Bowser and Dedede were being worked on for about half of the development of Smash 64 in a Smash 2 response. It’s unknown whether Mewtwo had any work done on him. According to an interview with Miyamoto, Bowser was in the game at least at November 1998. Therefore, he was cut shortly late into development.

So let's see who's the craziest Smash fan here. How much would you pay to see Bowser in Smash 64? That would be pretty amazing. I wish Nintendo one day would make like a documentary on all of their beta stuff lol.

Also, "shortly late into development", lol? The game launched in January of '99 in Japan, so he must of been cut extremely late into development, or Miyamoto just hadn't checked in on the project in a while.

Also, I think I found the correct quote where Sakurai talks about how "Smash as a competitive fighting game has not future":

If Smash had gone further down the path that Melee had [9], I don’t think it would be as popular as it is now.

I 100% agree with him on this one. But, I mean, as long you don't make all of those technical inputs necessary, then there really isn't a problem.

 

Maybe that was from the time when Nintendo and Square were still cool? But yeah; I wouldn't take that poll as anything official.

He is both a 3rd party character and a Mario rep, so it could go either way, but methinks 3rd party has precedence over the Mario franchise.

Btw, I love that poll. Maybe that's why I'm so salty; because I'm stuck in 1999.

That's really interesting that King Dedede didn't make it into Melee, despite his staggering number of votes.

---

Well I guess this might be true, But i still feel it's strange.

 

Here's how stiff like this tends to work. Wolf is popular here, a site in the Smash community, one of those people spread it into Twitter/Facebook/Reddit/YouTube/IN where it gets more attention. The more popular the character, idea, whatever is here, the more likely it is to spread, and the more publicity it gets, the more people are to get used to the idea. That's how the bandwagoning effect works, and that's why it's my belief that Wolf and K.Rool are every bit as popular as many believe them to be.

But by all means, prove it wrong. I'm open to seeing any hard evidence that suggests otherwise, but I know how these things work, which is why until then, I'll stick to my opinion.

You seem unfamiliar with the concept of the burden of truth.

You made the accusation that Bayonetta couldn't possibly be the real ballot winner and the only proof you supplied was insufficient.

You want proof Bayonetta won? Sakurai said she did. He said the official results were that she was #1 in the UK out of realizable characters, and ranked the top #5 in America, winning worldwide as a result.

I know you're having trouble coming to terms with the characters you wanted losing, but saying "BUT I KNOW LOTS OF PPL WHO WANTED K ROOL AND WULF" doesn't disprove the official ballot results, nor do the dozens of inaccurate fan polls.

It's not up to us to prove that Sakurai is right. It's up to you to prove that he's wrong, and you've completely and utterly failed at it thus far.

He means since Geno is deconfirmed people are suddenly hating on the character and saying that he is useless and not relevant anymore. It's the curse of any popular character not included in Smash Bros. You suddenly see people hating on Shantae, Shovel Knight, Banjo, Wolf, K. Rool... you know; the characters people actually wanted. But now they're uncool for some reason.

Err....that's new?

I've been saying that stuff about Geno long before the Mii Costume dropped. I've been saying it for years. Geno has been looked upon as a joke in the Smash community by a lot of people for a very long time. It's not 2008 anymore. There's still Geno supporters, but for the most part, he's been reduced to being the ultimate example of a worthless character inexplicably getting fandom-wide support (the same role Shantae ended up adopting).

Maybe that was from the time when Nintendo and Square were still cool?

Nope.

Square split from Nintendo and started developing exclusively for Sony not long after SMRPG. The two didn't reconcile until a little while into the Gamecube's lifespan, if I recall correctly.

Nintendo and Square were still on bad terms when that poll data was collected. Brawl was really the first Smash where Square content could've realistically been featured.

Not everyone on that list were realizable characters, by the way. It wasn't a "pick who you like best out of these names" type of thing. Isn't that the list James Bond is on? He wasn't a realizable character, much like Geno wasn't.

 

I've been saying that stuff about Geno long before the Mii Costume dropped. I've been saying it for years. Geno has been looked upon as a joke in the Smash community by a lot of people for a very long time. It's not 2008 anymore. There's still Geno supporters, but for the most part, he's been reduced to being the ultimate example of a worthless character inexplicably getting fandom-wide support (the same role Shantae ended up adopting).

But even by 2008 he was outdated, so why do you say that?

He's not worthless; that's just your opinion, and a horrible choice of words at that; I would at least accept 'not relevant'.

The explanation for his support is that he is a cool character from a great game; what else do you need? IC's were in the same position at the time of Melee, so stop forcing your made-up rules on people.

Who cares if he's outdated. Even if that's Sakurai's rule, **** it. That's why people want a new director for Smash, because as long as Sakurai is at the helm, competitive play will be shunned and we will never get the top requested characters.

 

But even by 2008 he was outdated, so why do you say that?

He's not worthless; that's just your opinion, and a horrible choice of words at that; I would at least accept 'not relevant'.

The explanation for his support is that he is a cool character from a great game; what else do you need? IC's were in the same position at the time of Melee, so stop forcing your made-up rules on people.

Who cares if he's outdated. Even if that's Sakurai's rule, **** it. That's why people want a new director for Smash, because as long as Sakurai is at the helm, competitive play will be shunned and we will never get the top requested characters.

2008 was the Brawl era. Geno was super popular and in high demand for Brawl.

He was only wanted by a small minority for SSB4 and was viewed as a no-hope joke by everyone else.

"This character is cool!" isn't valid justification as to why a character should be in Smash, by the way. Geno is a character from a series that already has plenty of representation, still has more popular and recognizable characters that aren't playable in Smash, and is owned by a third party with its own lineup of iconic characters and franchises that are more worth the representation than Geno would be.

Geno is small time for both Nintendo and Square. The fact that Cloud Strife is a fully playable character and Geno is just a Mii Costume is proof enough of this.

 

"This character is cool!" isn't valid justification as to why a character should be in Smash, by the way.

Hmmm...

After doing some further research, I guess you're right.

1. They are a protagonist in the game.
2. They are a recurring character in the series.
3. They represent hardware or an era.

What if the series only had 1 game, lol!

But let it be known that I disagree with Sakurai's rules.

Anyway, I wonder how highly he was considered for Brawl by the team... Based on those rules, not at all it would seem, but if he was, then Sakurai was "lying".

 

Anyway, I wonder how highly he was considered for Brawl by the team... Based on those rules, not at all it would seem, but if he was, then Sakurai was "lying".

There's nothing to suggest Geno was ever seriously considered at all for any Smash game.

If they were planning on putting a Square character in Brawl, they unquestionably would've went with someone from Final Fantasy, just like they did with SSB4. Geno was more popular pre-Brawl than he is now, but he still has a ton of problems that I think would prevent him from getting in regardless (namely, his obscurity, his unimportance to the Mario series as a whole, and the fact that he's owned by a company that has its own iconic characters who would be far more valuable to the game than Geno).

 

There's nothing to suggest Geno was ever seriously considered at all for any Smash game.

If they were planning on putting a Square character in Brawl, they unquestionably would've went with someone from Final Fantasy, just like they did with SSB4. Geno was more popular pre-Brawl than he is now, but he still has a ton of problems that I think would prevent him from getting in regardless (namely, his obscurity, his unimportance to the Mario series as a whole, and the fact that he's owned by a company that has its own iconic characters who would be far more valuable to the game than Geno).

I can agree with you, though I think the Mii Fighter costume suggests he may have been considered for a game at some point.

Now that you point this stuff out, I'm kind of surprised he even got a costume at that. Maybe it was just them being excited over being cool with Square again.

 

I can agree with you, though I think the Mii Fighter costume suggests he may have been considered for a game at some point.

Now that you point this stuff out, I'm kind of surprised he even got a costume at that. Maybe it was just them being excited over being cool with Square again.

They've been cool with Square for ages now. Square has actually produced multiple Mario titles over the past decade (Mario Hoops 3-on-3, two Fortune Street games, and Mario Sports Mix. Fortune Street for the Wii even actually references SMRPG in a music track). Furthermore, Geno had a cameo appearance in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga.

I think the Geno costume came about as a result of Geno having been a popular request for Smash by fans, and not a result of him ever being seriously considered. Same goes for the K. Rool costume.

 

He said the official results were that she was #1 in the UK out of realizable characters.

Nope, false. Europe isn't just UK

But even by 2008 he was outdated, so why do you say that?

He's not worthless; that's just your opinion, and a horrible choice of words at that; I would at least accept 'not relevant'.

The explanation for his support is that he is a cool character from a great game; what else do you need? IC's were in the same position at the time of Melee, so stop forcing your made-up rules on people.

Who cares if he's outdated. Even if that's Sakurai's rule, **** it. That's why people want a new director for Smash, because as long as Sakurai is at the helm, competitive play will be shunned and we will never get the top requested characters.

'COMPETITIVE PLAY GETS SHUNNED!'
Gamecube controllers, no tripping, faster gameplay, more advanced techniques, official tournament at E3 2014, etc.
'NO HIGHLY REQUESTED CHARACTERS!'
Villager, Mega Man, Little Mac, Palutena, Shulk, Bowser Jr, Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, arguably Cloud and also Bayonetta. Or did you mean 'NONE OF THE CHARACTERS I WANTED GOT IN!!1!!'

 

Nope, false. Europe isn't just UK

I'm aware the entirety of Europe isn't the UK. Just a simple slip-up.

 

There's nothing to suggest Geno was ever seriously considered at all for any Smash game.

If they were planning on putting a Square character in Brawl, they unquestionably would've went with someone from Final Fantasy, just like they did with SSB4. Geno was more popular pre-Brawl than he is now, but he still has a ton of problems that I think would prevent him from getting in regardless (namely, his obscurity, his unimportance to the Mario series as a whole, and the fact that he's owned by a company that has its own iconic characters who would be far more valuable to the game than Geno).

I don't want to join this disscussion but...
I dislike the way that you discuss about Geno because you don't want to mention anything positive about him and you act like if "he is nothing but trash." and you make other people lose hopes about him or no longer support the character.

 

I don't want to join this disscussion but...
I dislike the way that you discuss about Geno because you don't want to mention anything positive about him and you act like if "he is nothing but trash." and you make other people lose hopes about him or no longer support the character.

All Burb did was list arguments against Geno's inclusion he never treated Geno like trash

 

All Burb did was list arguments against Geno's inclusion he never treated Geno like trash

Might want to look at who you're talking too.
Not that it really stops me in all honesty.

 

Might want to look at who you're talking too.
Not that it really stops me in all honesty.

I knew posting it that he has a bias towards Geno being included but like you it doesn't really stop me

 

Didn't Sakurai say Melee was his last Smash game? And didn't he also do the same thing with Brawl?

 

Didn't Sakurai say Melee was his last Smash game? And didn't he also do the same thing with Brawl?

He makes games like their his last, it's why he doesn't 'save stuff for later'

 

Might want to look at who you're talking too.
Not that it really stops me in all honesty.

I knew posting it that he has a bias towards Geno being included but like you it doesn't really stop me

How do you know he has a bias? You're just assuming.

Didn't Sakurai say Melee was his last Smash game? And didn't he also do the same thing with Brawl?

He said this after every single Smash game, lol. He hates the idea of having to do sequels.

 

How do you know he has a bias? You're just assuming.

It's almost like he has Geno in his name, a Geno avatar and constantly talks about Geno or something.
There's no assumption when it's bleeding obvious.

 

How do you know he has a bias? You're just assuming.


He said this after every single Smash game, lol. He hates the idea of having to do sequels.

Not sure if sarcastic but just in case...
Boost has become infamous for going 'BUT WHATABOUT GENO?!' a lot, using the same arguments, despite them being debunked all the ****ing time

 

How do you know he has a bias? You're just assuming.

It's almost like he has Geno in his name, a Geno avatar and constantly talks about Geno or something.
There's no assumption when it's bleeding obvious.

^This

 

I don't want to join this disscussion but...
I dislike the way that you discuss about Geno because you don't want to mention anything positive about him and you act like if "he is nothing but trash." and you make other people lose hopes about him or no longer support the character.

Just because I don't think Geno warrants a spot on the Smash Bros roster doesn't mean I think he's "trash".

My comments about him are all directly in response to the idea of him becoming playable in Smash. I'm not at all opposed to him returning to the Mario series in some form, but as it stands right now, there's tons of Mario characters who are not playable in Smash that deserve to be added before him based on their importance to the series and their popularity.

As I believe I've told you in a past argument about this, I think it would be more appropriate for Geno to return in a Mario game of some sort, preferably an RPG, sports, or party spinoff.

How do you know he has a bias? You're just assuming.


He said this after every single Smash game, lol. He hates the idea of having to do sequels.

- His name is Geno Boost
- His avatar is always a picture of Geno
- All he ever talks about is Geno
- His signature is Geno
- His most wanted newcomer was Geno
- He still thinks Geno is as highly requested now as he was pre-Brawl, which is utter nonsense to anyone who was actually around the community before Brawl.
- He refuses to believe Geno is not the most wanted Mario character in the community in spite of him losing to characters like Paper Mario and Daisy in the majority of the polls.
- He refuses to accept that Geno is third party in spite it being proven to him on countless occasions that Geno is owned by Square Enix and believes that him being a Mario character somehow eliminates his third party status.
- Last I heard, he's never even played Super Mario RPG, and is just obsessed with Geno for unknown reasons

 

Just because I don't think Geno warrants a spot on the Smash Bros roster doesn't mean I think he's "trash".

My comments about him are all directly in response to the idea of him becoming playable in Smash. I'm not at all opposed to him returning to the Mario series in some form, but as it stands right now, there's tons of Mario characters who are not playable in Smash that deserve to be added before him based on their importance to the series and their popularity.

As I believe I've told you in a past argument about this, I think it would be more appropriate for Geno to return in a Mario game of some sort, preferably an RPG, sports, or party spinoff.



- His name is Geno Boost
- His avatar is always a picture of Geno
- All he ever talks about is Geno
- His signature is Geno
- His most wanted newcomer was Geno
- He still thinks Geno is as highly requested now as he was pre-Brawl, which is utter nonsense to anyone who was actually around the community before Brawl.
- He refuses to believe Geno is not the most wanted Mario character in the community in spite of him losing to characters like Paper Mario and Daisy in the majority of the polls.
- He refuses to accept that Geno is third party in spite it being proven to him on countless occasions that Geno is owned by Square Enix and believes that him being a Mario character somehow eliminates his third party status.
- Last I heard, he's never even played Super Mario RPG, and is just obsessed with Geno for unknown reasons

I can't believe Daisy is a wanted character by people, and I can't believe Geno loses to her; what is this world we're living in?

- Last I heard, he's never even played Super Mario RPG, and is just obsessed with Geno for unknown reasons

Okay; this made me lol.

 

I can't believe Daisy is a wanted character by people, and I can't believe Geno loses to her; what is this world we're living in?


Okay; this made me lol.

People will want just about anyone, regardless of the characters circumstances lol

 

People will want just about anyone, regardless of the characters circumstances lol

Yeah, and I guess people can say the same thing about me for wanting Geno and others.

 

Just because I don't think Geno warrants a spot on the Smash Bros roster doesn't mean I think he's "trash".

My comments about him are all directly in response to the idea of him becoming playable in Smash. I'm not at all opposed to him returning to the Mario series in some form, but as it stands right now, there's tons of Mario characters who are not playable in Smash that deserve to be added before him based on their importance to the series and their popularity.

As I believe I've told you in a past argument about this, I think it would be more appropriate for Geno to return in a Mario game of some sort, preferably an RPG, sports, or party spinoff.



- His name is Geno Boost
- His avatar is always a picture of Geno
- All he ever talks about is Geno
- His signature is Geno
- His most wanted newcomer was Geno
- He still thinks Geno is as highly requested now as he was pre-Brawl, which is utter nonsense to anyone who was actually around the community before Brawl.
- He refuses to believe Geno is not the most wanted Mario character in the community in spite of him losing to characters like Paper Mario and Daisy in the majority of the polls.
- He refuses to accept that Geno is third party in spite it being proven to him on countless occasions that Geno is owned by Square Enix and believes that him being a Mario character somehow eliminates his third party status.
- Last I heard, he's never even played Super Mario RPG, and is just obsessed with Geno for unknown reasons

-I didn't say he is the most requested Mario character I said he is the most requested square Enix character
-I understand that he is a 3rd party.
-I played SMRPG after it was released in the wiiu eshop and no I am not obsessed with Geno but I just like the character story and power and his design just like any fan of other characters.

But as I said I don't want to join this disscussion.

 

-I didn't say he is the most requested Mario character I said he is the most requested square Enix character
-I understand that he is a 3rd party.
-I played SMRPG after it was released in the wiiu eshop and no I am not obsessed with Geno but I just like the character story and power and his design just like any fan of other characters.

But as I said I don't want to join this disscussion.

In one of our past debates regarding this, you DID say he was the most requested Mario character. That's the whole reason why I went and found polls that stated otherwise.

And his status as "most wanted Square character" ended up being moot, since they picked a Final Fantasy character over him, just like I told you they would a billion times in our other arguments.

If you don't want to join the discussion, then leave. Nobody's forcing you to post.

I can't believe Daisy is a wanted character by people, and I can't believe Geno loses to her; what is this world we're living in?


Okay; this made me lol.

While I don't want either of them, I'd pick Daisy over Geno simply because she's more important to the series. She's been in a main series Mario title (Super Mario Land) and has been a constant presence in the spinoffs since Mario Tennis. Geno's only appearances have been two RPGs (which are spinoffs, too).

1 main series appearance and a playable role in dozens of spinoffs > 2 spinoffs, only one of which was a playable role and the other was a cameo as a mini-game tutorial guide.

 

In one of our past debates regarding this, you DID say he was the most requested Mario character. That's the whole reason why I went and found polls that stated otherwise.

And his status as "most wanted Square character" ended up being moot, since they picked a Final Fantasy character over him, just like I told you they would a billion times in our other arguments.

If you don't want to join the discussion, then leave. Nobody's forcing you to post.



While I don't want either of them, I'd pick Daisy over Geno simply because she's more important to the series. She's been in a main series Mario title (Super Mario Land) and has been a constant presence in the spinoffs since Mario Tennis. Geno's only appearances have been two RPGs (which are spinoffs, too).

1 main series appearance and a playable role in dozens of spinoffs > 2 spinoffs, only one of which was a playable role and the other was a cameo as a mini-game tutorial guide.

No I didn't say that I am pretty sure I didn't say that, I searched my comments I only said he is the most requested square-Enix character.

 

And his status as "most wanted Square character" ended up being moot, since they picked a Final Fantasy character over him, just like I told you they would a billion times in our other arguments.

But how does that equate with each other? They didn't do a poll to determine who the fans wanted, but if they did Geno vs. Cloud, Cloud would undoubtedly win, though fans just didn't know Cloud was a possibility. So I think it was more like they read our minds.

While I don't want either of them, I'd pick Daisy over Geno simply because she's more important to the series. She's been in a main series Mario title (Super Mario Land) and has been a constant presence in the spinoffs since Mario Tennis. Geno's only appearances have been two RPGs (which are spinoffs, too).

1 main series appearance and a playable role in dozens of spinoffs > 2 spinoffs, only one of which was a playable role and the other was a cameo as a mini-game tutorial guide.

I agree. Based on the conceived roster rules Sakurai has, Daisy would make more sense than Geno, though there isn't a whole lot interesting about Daisy other than appearing as dare I say "filler" in a lot of games, much like Waluigi. If they hard their own game(s) or more prominent roles in other ones, of course I would be open for them, but at this point, I don't even see Daisy being worthy of an Assist Trophy.

Sure, yeah, from an unbiased perspective I don't think either of them are worthy; I just personally like Geno.

No I didn't say that I am pretty sure I didn't say that, I searched my comments I only said he is the most requested square-Enix character.

I could agree with this, though it was before people knew Cloud was possible.

I just will never give two ****s about Cloud being in Smash; it's just a cash-grab.