Sooo, CT ZeRo's initial tier list has Zelda dead last.

[BJN39]

I'm finally done reading and....



MESS

All I can say is props to Cour for managing to make the messiest Zelda thread on the smash 4 boards to date.
I'm not even gonna bother getting involved.

Quoting for GiF posterity.

 

[Aibou]

These gifs are the best things to come out of this thread xD

^
It's what made reading this hot mess worth it for me.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Zelda boards: where gifs are valid counter-arguments.

But seriously guys, take this as a first and last warning (because I'm the good cop): let's all just try to get along.
Next post where you attack a person rather than keep a healthy discussion will result in infractions.

 

[MrEh]

This didn't work in any other Smash games except on like...Bowser in Brawl, who had absolutely no landing options.

Brawl Bowser had air Klaw, which was less laggy than airdodging and traded favorably with Zelda's Fsmash in nearly every situation.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Brawl Bowser had air Klaw, which was less laggy than airdodging and traded favorably with Zelda's Fsmash in nearly every situation.

Read: Land trapping with Din's Fire.

Which would be applied in situations where you wouldn't be in range to directly trade Klaw with Zelda's F-smash, especially factoring Bowser has both laggy aerials and airdodge in Brawl.

Smash 4 just makes this viable for Zelda to do on like almost everyone, and then other huge non-trivial bonuses like being able to edgeguard safely and kill people at long range by land trapping with Up-B. Zelda in this game at least has the tools to create KO opportunities on defensive opponents once she successfully approaches. And approaching for her in this game is considerably less terrible when tools like her Jab and grab got much better.

 

[MrEh]

Read: Land trapping with Din's Fire.

Then Bowser jumps and airdodges at the same time. Din's just never worked at land trapping against Bowser period because Klaw exists.

Just pointing that out.

 

[Alphatron]

From what I understand in this thread, Zelda is so bad this time around that there is no reason to bother discussing any sort of meta game options for her.

 

[Alacion]

^It's not that bad, but Zelda will definitely need dedicated mains that won't give her up.

 

[Upke]

So I've been playing a lot of Zelda, but it's impossible to gauge her full potential with these ****ty 3DS controls. Farore's Wind is a pretty decent offensive option in certain situations, but the circle pad ****s up probably half of my directions. Sometimes it straight kills me even though I was pointing straight down on stage. But I can at least tell some things, like how poor her kill options are. Dthrow to kick stops working before kill percents and anything else that seems to resemble a combo seems to be airdodgeable. I think as time goes on (and hopefully a 3DS to GCC adapter is being produced) kicking out of shield might be viable, but I also think people will learn how to attack shield in ways that aren't punishable. She definitely seems to lack in pretty much everything, just like good ol' Melee.

 

[Lil Puddin]

I'm pretty sure that Princess Zeldoo is at least mid tier. I have a 90% win rate with her out of almost 200 matches. She has gained a few more kill options in addition to her old ones, but she did lose her awesome Utilt KO potential.

In this game, it seems that everybody can approach the stage after being thrown off again without much of a hassle. Zeldoo had many SAFE edge guarding options so she can get kills via gimps instead of outright KOs. She has a bit of trouble trying to catch really fast people who just keep running away, but that is to be expected. Just throw them off the stage and then have fun with them.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I JUST ROLLED OVER ON MY HOTEL SOFA BED AND ALMOST DIED reading that she should even go offstage

 

[rpgcaster]

So I've been playing a lot of Zelda, but it's impossible to gauge her full potential with these ****ty 3DS controls. Farore's Wind is a pretty decent offensive option in certain situations, but the circle pad ****s up probably half of my directions. Sometimes it straight kills me even though I was pointing straight down on stage. But I can at least tell some things, like how poor her kill options are. Dthrow to kick stops working before kill percents and anything else that seems to resemble a combo seems to be airdodgeable. I think as time goes on (and hopefully a 3DS to GCC adapter is being produced) kicking out of shield might be viable, but I also think people will learn how to attack shield in ways that aren't punishable. She definitely seems to lack in pretty much everything, just like good ol' Melee.

I think it's not the circle pad but how her warp works now... I vaguely remember a video mentioning it, lemme grab it~

There it is:

 

[Upke]

That's good to know, but it was definitely my circle pad, because I jump high enough to get the full distance down, as I'm used to spacing these things. It also turns around my down-B a lot and a few other inaccuracies.

 

[Lil Puddin]

I JUST ROLLED OVER ON MY HOTEL SOFA BED AND ALMOST DIED reading that she should even go offstage

Who needs to go off stage when you have phantoms and dins? You can also use F-wind while standing on the edge of the stage to bait them to come up on the edge, and then hit them with the sweet spot. But due to the gravity, or lack thereof, she can go off stage somewhat safely. It's too bad there's the whole ez air dodge thing.

 

[Aibou]

Hmm...why wouldn't she be able to go offstage? I don't have the game so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I can imagine there'd be no problem with her at least attempting a gimp with her buffed Dair and her ability to actually get back on the stage fairly easily (thank you, ledge mechanics). Is there something I'm missing that makes going offstage hazardous for her?

 

[micstar615]

Hmm...why wouldn't she be able to go offstage? I don't have the game so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I can imagine there'd be no problem with her at least attempting a gimp with her buffed Dair and her ability to actually get back on the stage fairly easily (thank you, ledge mechanics). Is there something I'm missing that makes going offstage hazardous for her?

Her Dair is definitely good for landing spikes off stage, and she can surprise people with a well placed Fair or Bair as well and you're right, her buffed recovery and the new ledge mechanics help her go off stage and come back effectively. I think her biggest problem is that she's so slow and floaty off stage and her aerials are on the slow side too so going off stage can be risky with little pay off at times.

 

[Upke]

All characters with competent recoveries can go offstage thanks to getting the ledge for free every time, I think it's just a better option to Din's Fire from on stage and punish air dodges since there's almost no risk.

 

[Lil Puddin]

Hmm...why wouldn't she be able to go offstage? I don't have the game so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I can imagine there'd be no problem with her at least attempting a gimp with her buffed Dair and her ability to actually get back on the stage fairly easily (thank you, ledge mechanics). Is there something I'm missing that makes going offstage hazardous for her?

The problem is, she is still really laggy and floaty in the air. So positioning herself probably will not be an easy feat. Since most of her kill options rely on sweetspots, it can easily be dodged mid-air. Nair can also be bypassed by aerial dodging thanks to momentum.

Her other options are way more reliable and safe. Everyone is trying to go for the ledge, thus making their end-position very predictable.

Naryu's Love is a beautiful edge gaurding tool now. Turn your back to the ledge, and you can also perform a Bair or Fair if the person decides to switch it up.

Phantom Slash is very good if the person is not trying to go for the ledge. It has great KO potential when fully charged, along with a nice 2 attack (horizontal + vertical) stabbyslashy.

Din's fire can gimp and hilariously KO someone. Its steady upward/downward slope and awkward movement is not fully easy to read, especially online. It is still sort of easy to dodge...

And my fav, Fiorre's Wind KO. It is harder to do on the 3ds version, solely because the circle pad is crappy when it comes to precise directional movement. Variations:
1- run from the ledge, making the person think it is safe to climb up. Then hit them with a lovely sweet spot.
2- jump up, crash down.
3- use it when they try to climb up on stage without attacking, and go upward. If done right, you will perform a WOMBO COMBO that will make you look so pro and trolly. This one is trickier to do, but it's way more satisfying to execute.

It should also be noted that even when the move is stale, it still has some great knockback.

The best part about these options is, that they are all safe and also keep you on the stage for the most part. Zelda is really a mind ****ing monster in this game since she has a lot of chill options. All without being EZ mode! *side glances @Ezio, Meta Ez, and Ezink*

She totes deserves more main-time.

 

[Aibou]

Ah man is her Dair really that laggy? I dunno how I feel about that.

That sounds great, but that also makes it seem like Zelda still kinda requires strong reads to get the most out of her abilities, which I'm more than okay with so long as the reward is as good as it sounds. It's definitely gonna make her a bit harder to play than others, though.

 

[Upke]

I definitely think Zelda will be 10x more fun on the Wii U version with competent controls. I started playing other characters today after just grinding Zelda, and everyone else is so much easier, with more legitimate options, and less risk of killing themselves trying to get that tasty Farore's kill due to circle pad.

 

[Kalamander]

I haven't got the game yet, but it looks like Zelda has terrible recovery with the Circle Pad. I'm wondering if there will be different tier-lists for both consoles?

 

[Lil Puddin]

Probably.

Either way Zeldoo is not garbaje tier this time around. Palutena took her spot jajajaja. (Not really)

 

[Upke]

Yeah, I think she will be the most viable in this game out of the Smash series, though that isn't saying much. The 3DS controls definitely hurt her a lot more than many other characters, not so much because of her recovery though, more because she relies heavily on spacing long-ranging attacks and sweetspots.

 

[Lil Puddin]

I actually had a very high win rate with her online. Despite the wonky controls, she is not as easily punished as she was in the previous installments. So maybe it is a good thing that the controls are a little bit too difficult for Zeldoo. Otherwise people would be complaining about her just as much as they complain about Lil Mac or counters. lol

The only character that really seem to suffer with the poor 3ds controls are Palutena and Peach. Peach was my fav, but she feels slower in SSB4. P-Giddy ,has easily punished and avoidable tilts, but good smashes that need to be precisely timed. And we all know how dumbdiculous it is to smash on the 3ds.