Sonic's Dash Dance and Fsmash from dash

[InterimOfZeal]

Using True Pivots/Fox Trotting, Sonic is able to both dash dance, and attack from his dash. I've only been able to do fsmash from the dash insofar, but it's pretty hot. I'll send replays to whomever has a capture device, to post on youtube.

Thread that started it all:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4296039#post4296039

Video for Sonic's Dash Dance:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ioUt7qjfh6Y

Sonic's game keeps stepping up.

 

[FrostByte]

Fsmash is easier to do out of the pivot but if you don't do it correctly you'll get a little stutter step motion in the other direction. It's really hard to time the "true" ones.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Not really, from a foxtrot, just press the cstick in whichever direction you want to fsmash right as you input the next foxtrot. Pretty easy. Spacing it is trickier, but that's just because Sonic is FAST.

 

[TwinkleToes]

I'll try this out a bit but I've always disliked unnecessary running with Sonic because I seem to trip all the time. Plus, to be honest, I never REALLY saw what was all that great about dash dancing anyways.

 

[Doc Chronic]

I'll try this out a bit but I've always disliked unnecessary running with Sonic because I seem to trip all the time. Plus, to be honest, I never REALLY saw what was all that great about dash dancing anyways.

Thats funny, i love "unnecessary running" with sonic. Because of his fantastic speed, you can afford to do it, and it really can intimidate/throw off your opponents approach.

 

[Umby]

It would be Phanna who would figure this out.

 

[thecatinthehat]

It would be Phanna who would figure this out.

You would say that.

*edit: Shouldn't this thread have like 3 pages by now? This gives Sonic the edge he's needed since release.

 

[Boxob]

I found this out with Captain Falcon like, 2 weeks ago, decided not say anything D:

 

[samper]

I guess it doesn't have a bunch of pages because people like me don't completely understand how it helps. If I read phanna's description right, I think this lets you do a really big retreat then turn and punish someone for missing their attack, and the reason Zeal is so excited about it is because Sonic has the fastest running speed so he can step out then back in quicker than everyone else. Is that about right? Because if it is then yeah I can see how this would be pretty helpful.

 

[Adamated]

hmm, all that speed and a late, sloppy entry will be sure to reveal many new things that can be game changing.

 

[Soloman]

YEAHZ, another notch up for the blue blur.

Edit: Why arent more ppl replying to this?

 

[da K.I.D.]

the way samper described it, it just adds another defensive option to an already incredibly defensive game. however i can see this in an offensive strategy, if you foxtrot forward twice and bait them into attacking. you can punish really nicely by retreating, and going back in for a nice f-smash

 

[Boxob]

Very good find. I'll have to practice this tomorrow when I'm not falling asleep on my keyboard.

 

[Sonic the EdgEhog]

<3 Izzy's thread. This is so helpful against characters like DK with extreme out-prioritizing in the front. (Giant Monkey armz ftl D: )

 

[Soloman]

according to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X9oqJEXYMM u can perform it as a foxtrot to halfstep fsmash, u can only do a fsmash from it. But yeh, chasing somone down this would be pretty good.

 

[samper]

I think if you look at phanna's thread there's also a video of him doing other things out of it, like jabbing, specials and taunting, so that video was specifically for the Fsmash I think.

Using this as a mind game does seem really useful too, more so since Sonic is typically running full tilt towards his opponent. If you can stop his dash with this stuff that could help you throw someone off or, since I'm pretty sure you can't do that, you might be able to run forward, do forward B to cancel his dash and then shield to cancel the forward B, and then start dash dancing/fox trotting/whatever its called.

So yeah, it seems to be a pretty good defensive/mind game tool to be able to do.
...Unless of course you trip.

 

[Soloman]

**** yeh i just saw those lol, i gotta l2read better.

 

[Marie_54]

Thats funny, i love "unnecessary running" with sonic. Because of his fantastic speed, you can afford to do it, and it really can intimidate/throw off your opponents approach.

I love that too except when i play on wifi and i miss a grab by 3 character lengths because of lag...

Anyways, Nice Find! I'll try this out when i'm not falling asleep...

 

[FrostByte]

From the Vid that Solomon posted.

Fsmash is easier to do out of the pivot but if you don't do it correctly you'll get a little stutter step motion in the other direction.

a combination of Foxtrotting and Half-stepping.

IMrite.

Didn't we originally dub it "stutter stepping" anyway?

 

[Soloman]

yehpz, stuttersteppin and 2x utterspippin. man im tired...

 

[Boxob]

Ain't nothin' gunna break my stride, ain't nothin' gunna slow me down. Oh no! I got to keep on movin'.

Been up since nine yesterday D:

 

[Dragonbreath]

So exactly how far does this this AT move you?

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Far far. Like... 2x stutter WISHES it was this sexy. It's essentially fsmash from dash. You can do dsmash, ftilt, whatever, but I can't get the timing for those. I can't even do the dash dance, I think I'm inputting stuff wrong.

This ~can~ add to his defensive game, but I think this helps a LOT with the offense, personally. Run up and punish with fsmash? Sonic is sexy.

If anyone has a capture device, I can send them a replay demonstrating this stuff. Based on the lack of love, I really think people don't understand how monumental this is.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Far far. Like... 2x stutter WISHES it was this sexy. It's essentially fsmash from dash. You can do dsmash, ftilt, whatever, but I can't get the timing for those. I can't even do the dash dance, I think I'm inputting stuff wrong.

This ~can~ add to his defensive game, but I think this helps a LOT with the offense, personally. Run up and punish with fsmash? Sonic is sexy.

If anyone has a capture device, I can send them a replay demonstrating this stuff. Based on the lack of love, I really think people don't understand how monumental this is.

I can't do the dash dance either I keep wondering if perhaps I am not doing something right.
Christ I think this means he may be capable of keeping up with MK.

 

[Dan_X]

Yeah, I thought this was known for a while. As someone mentioned it's dubbed as stutter-stepping, in this case 2x stutter-stepping. it works well, giving range to Sonic's f-smash which would otherwise have a very limited range.

Dash dancing and fox trotting are great because they help with spacing. Without fox-trotting you'd simply run at the enemy and potentially execute a smash. With fox-trotting however, you're splitting up the action of running adding many opportunities in between, but keeping the same relative speed, if not faster, than regular running. Being that f-trotting is a series of dashing bursts, you can reverse the dash and then use a smash. To be honest, I have to add this to my game more... As I only tend to use it with Sonic.

 

[FrostByte]

It's not stutter stepping alone. It's a foxtrot into a 2x reversed stutter step Fsmash.

To be honest, Foxtrotting is total crap in this game since you can only dash attack and upsmash out of it. The fact that you can pivot out of it brings up it's useability bacause pivoting is so easy in brawl compared to melee (I used to be able to pivot pretty consistently with Marth in Melee). Foxtrot to standing/small pivot will probably be one of Sonic's most important movement options.

 

[Browny]

If anyone has a capture device, I can send them a replay demonstrating this stuff. Based on the lack of love, I really think people don't understand how monumental this is.

hmmm id love to help but unless there is another way replays can be sent other than through the wii codes (via SD -> uploaded to internet) for example i dont think i can lol

(btw i cant usee wii codes since my wii connect 24 is off, i dont want no ninty firmware updates ruining my freeloader )

 

[InterimOfZeal]

It's way more than the 2x stutter smash. More than any other move he has. It's a freakin' fsmash from a dash, and can be done either way. This is the BEST way to kill, as of right now.

 

[thx]

i can see this as a huge step for sonic killing wise although hes still an okay character this helps him out alot

 

[Dragonbreath]

It's way more than the 2x stutter smash. More than any other move he has. It's a freakin' fsmash from a dash, and can be done either way. This is the BEST way to kill, as of right now.

As in, like...Wavedash far?

Please excuse me while I find all the pwnsome macros ad Gif.s i can get my slimy little paws on.

 

[phosphorus]

Because this got Zeal so excited, I spent several hours working on figuring out what they were talking about. Doing this as Marth helped a bunch Mostly because that's what the videos use). I haven't sen any explanation that really made clear what was happening here, so let me see if I've got this right:

flick the stick right to start a dash, but stop it quick enough to get the shorter animation
(this part can be repeated to extend the difference, foxtrotting, Right?),

As soon as you see Sonic's rear foot stop (front foot will also work), flick it right again, and immediately hit the C stick either left or right.

What does this get you? You can Fsmash from two stage builder blocks away.

I'm having a hard time doing this with any semblance of consistency, but when I nail it, it's almost like a mini wavedash. Am I doing it right?

 

[Aftermath]

If you guys are just talking about fsmashing from a foxtrot, then this video will teach you how to do it.

What phanna brought up wasn't doing fsmashes, but when turning around, make sure that you end up in a standing position, so you can do any attack. To practice the basic concept, run one way, then flick the control stick the other direction quickly, making sure to do so before you're out of the dash dance range. If you did it correctly, then you'll see Sonic turn around and then just stand. From here you do anything you can do from a standing position.

Next is learning to control the "Brawl dash dance" where you chain foxtrots in opposite directions by doing the tiny dash dance at the end of each foxtrot.

Then you put the two together, to dash dance with Sonic's foxtrot range/speed, and be able to pivot out of it using the first technique. Or trip.

I'll put together another video in a day or two breaking the steps down as I did for the previous one.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

If you guys are just talking about fsmashing from a foxtrot, then this video will teach you how to do it.

What phanna brought up wasn't doing fsmashes, but when turning around, make sure that you end up in a standing position, so you can do any attack. To practice the basic concept, run one way, then flick the control stick the other direction quickly, making sure to do so before you're out of the dash dance range. If you did it correctly, then you'll see Sonic turn around and then just stand. From here you do anything you can do from a standing position.

Next is learning to control the "Brawl dash dance" where you chain foxtrots in opposite directions by doing the tiny dash dance at the end of each foxtrot.

Then you put the two together, to dash dance with Sonic's foxtrot range/speed, and be able to pivot out of it using the first technique. Or trip.

I'll put together another video in a day or two breaking the steps down as I did for the previous one.

That's like the 9th time you posted that vid. XD


I'm going to test out this dash dance thing later. I'm hoping you can dash dance then when they expect you do dash away you dash through them and start a combo. Or something.

Don't look at me. It just spent 8 hours breathing in stripper and floor wax. My head's woozy.

 

[MarKO X]

Demonstrating the maneuver is nice, but I'm so dumb that I can't actually see a true use for it. I'd love to see f-trot fsmashes implemented in actual battle. F-trotting in itself is a pretty decent maneuver for mind games, but using it to increase the spacing of the fsmash is something I haven't figured out yet.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

This fox trot into f smash is amazing. I've been messing around with it for a bit, and it's just too good. It's a lot simpler to pull off than the stuff mentioned in Phanna's thread. I've been trying his method to do other attacks out of it, but the only thing I can pull off somewhat is the jab combo, lol. Been trying for less than an hour, so whatev. Back to testing this stuff out. This stuff looks like it's gonna help out Sonic's game so much.

 

[Aftermath]

Well, you have to ***** out vids to get any views on them @ Terios. But yeah, I've posted that a lot >_>

Anyway, from testing, it seems like in order to make it useful for offense, you have to foxtrot, dash forward again, dash back, then do the flick back again in order to be standing and face the enemy. I've mainly been trying ftilts and dtilts out of it, and unless you want to be dash dancing with your turn around on either side of the opponent (so you run through them each time, not a good idea), then it requires like 3 super fast turnarounds followed by correctly doing whatever move you want. Doing this is actually really good most times, but like super easy to mess up and probably tempting trips more than should really be done.

One thing that is easier for the opponent to see but easier is to dash dance away from them, then when you want to attack, just double foxtrot in their direction and get behind them so you don't have to do the 3 direction standstill.

 

[FrostByte]

Fsmash and ftilt are good enough options and they can be done the most easily. It might be better to shield cancel or "screech" cancel behind your opponent at longer distances instead of using foxtrots.

 

[J18]

okay i can not get this dash dance down. i don't think i'm getting the true pivot, i'll work on it some more.

but the foxtrot-stutter stepped fsmash is pretty sweet, but i really think there should be a better name for it instead of "foxtrot 2xstutterstep fsmash

 

[Boxob]

Alright, after actually getting it to work I've made my analysis on these techniques.

The dash dance: The dash dance is just plain impracticable for how slow it is. Not only is it difficult to do, but it's pointless. In Melee dash dancing was used for mind games and leading people into bad situations, giving you an advantage for the next hit. In brawl, the game and dash dance are so slow paced, it gives very little advantages, and in my opinion, none whatsoever. What'll happen in a real fight if you try to do this, they'll just move away, which means you have to do more fox trots to get over there to start the already difficult to perform technique, and if you screw up, you do a screech stop by accident, you have to start over. You could have just not done the technique in the first place and instead, contemplate getting the next attack in through actually attacking. Dash dancing doesn't really do anything in brawl, almost no attacks are punishable enough for this to be advantageous. If you're fighting one of the characters that have slow enough attacks to make this dash dance viable for combat, you have enough of an advantage on them, and it won't help you much anyway since you can just wait for them to attack, shield, and attack yourself. IMHO, It's useless, I won't waste time incorporating this into my game, and neither should you.

Attack out of Dash: A much much more useful technique than the **** dance. It's actually good for getting proper spacing and landing hit. Although the most useful of moves out of this (Fsmash) can already be done a similar way by shield canceling or interrupting the screech stop with an Fsmash. But I'm pretty sure the other way is faster/flashier. It's usable, and worth learning.

Feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Finally, Brawl is getting technical. I can do the dsmash outta it now, but only when going left. This is hard stuff, but totally worth it.