Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[aeghrur]

Sigh, as always, KOing is Sonic's problem eh?

 

[Greenstreet]

unfortunately damaging can also just b as hard in this matchup. but punishing laggy moves really helps and not missing any opportunities. as well as not giving dk any.

 

[Browny]

what does DK have that stops an SH fair? i use that an awful lot against DK players and they dont seem to be able to stop it :/ it shield stabs so well vs DK its just about unpunishable on block since it always hits DK, even with a full shield.

also SC -> SC hit -> fair seems to hit very often vs DK since he has no quick gtfo aerial (luigi nair, lucario dair etc) for an easy 31%+

 

[Umby]

How to beat DK:

SH Fair spam. Usmash spam. Dash Attack spam. "Go! Go! You're too slow!"

Repeat.

 

[Tenki]

what does DK have that stops an SH fair? i use that an awful lot against DK players and they dont seem to be able to stop it :/ it shield stabs so well vs DK its just about unpunishable on block since it always hits DK, even with a full shield.

also SC -> SC hit -> fair seems to hit very often vs DK since he has no quick gtfo aerial (luigi nair, lucario dair etc) for an easy 31%+

UpB, B-air, U-tilt, I think.

and if not, spotdodge>d-smash.

 

[Napilopez]

"want to set up a match then with a dk mainer and u can show us how u find it in sonics advantage?"

Dude, mind setting me up for that? I'd love to play a DK(or anyone, lol) with name recognition. I really wanna see if I feel outplayed. I still kinda am a scrub, having only been seriously smashing since brawl, but I play a decent sonic and would really like to get a good feel for this matchup.

 

[Greenstreet]

u shud check the dk boards man. i put a thread about this in there. or just go in the friend finder and ask around for a dk mainer.

 

[ROOOOY!]

u shud check the dk boards man. i put a thread about this in there. or just go in the friend finder and ask around for a dk mainer.

Doesn't work lol. I have tried that for three days running asking pretty obviously explicitly for DK mainers.
"If you don't main DK, I won't play you, sorry"
Yet I STILL get random people asking me for fights who main Ness/Lucas/MK/whatever and I'm too polite to turn them down. :\
Best bet is to go into their character boards. I'd do it, but hardly anyone plays Brawl on here in England, I doubt I'd find any DK's at all.

 

[Greenstreet]

well when is your bro up for a match dj?

We can crack on Recommended stages, i'll sift thru the current posts to find references of stages as well..
That and a matchup summary and any other behaviour how-to-win, common moves stuff that you guys reckon shud b also in there.

 

[Browny]

we are on very often... im sure if you check at around 5-6 and 7-9 AEST we will be there every time

 

[ROOOOY!]

Just played a DK. I think it's his advantage, maybe 40:60 against us.
It's seriously scary how fast DK can rack up damage. Take 4 hits, and you're often above 50%. What doesn't help is how low a percentage a DK can kill you. You have to be really campy/defensive when approaching DK or he will murder you and those you love.
Ground Pound neutralizes all ground based approaches, though approaching from the air is not hard if he's doing this (unless it's on Battlefield, **** Battlefield)
If he's not Ground Pounding then aerials are probably the most effective way of approaching but still not great. F-tilt > All Sonic's approaches except for fair seemingly, SH fair was a life saver in this match-up.
His SH aerials (except for his fair which is awful) are decent GTFO attacks, with bair and uair having notably good priority.
Infact, most of my approaches were running pshield grabs.
So yeah, I've established that approaching DK isn't easy. You really need to feint a lot with Spindashes to encourage him to show you an opening, and once you're in there, if you're not racking up 25+% damage at least each time, you're doing it wrong. Get him in the air, head to head, his fair is slow so you should take advantage of say an up throw with a fair for 25~%. You NEED to make the most of the opportunities.
The times a good DK will expose himself are rather infrequent though.
Sonic really does have a problem killing though, DK on the other hand really doesn't, the highest I was living to was about 140% and I seem to remember DK at one point living at about 195% ;_;
I didn't successfully gimp him even once either. A good DK will Side B when recovering from above the stage to make you hesitant, by which time he's already fallen and is now recovering with Spinning Kong which Sonic can't really break through.

On a trivial note : Stutterstepped GO! > fully charged Donkey Punch.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Roy.

Go to pc.ipbfree.com.

Axelol goes to that site, make a topic and play him.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

He used to play on AiB alot but I haven't seen him in a while.....

The DK mainers say 70-30 them. I was like... Bwahhhhh? 60-40 at the worst..

We always complain about MK, GaW, Luigi and Wario. If it was THAT bad we'd complain about it.....

 

[ROOOOY!]

Roy.

Go to pc.ipbfree.com.

Axelol goes to that site, make a topic and play him.

But I don't wanna die
And that site is confusing.
And I'm presuming he's American, in which case the lag would make me cry anyway.

Anyway, stages? I'd avoid Battlefield, I got ***** on it earlier. Battlefield really limits you to a ground approach only and considering DK's range, that sucks. He can really pressure you with bairs/uairs/nairs if you get stranded on platforms too.
I'm not sure which stage to go for though. Final Destination's edge boundaries are far from the stage so killing DK will be hard at an anywhere decent % (as if it isn't hard enough always.) However, this stage also gives you the most room to camp and outmaneuver and generally run rings around DK.
I coped better on Yoshi's Island (Brawl) in general, not sure why though.

 

[thecatinthehat]

I hate to lurk and stray off the topic, but I think this is the 1st time I've ever seen DK's full name used in a thread...

 

[Greenstreet]

I think that Lylat might be the answer for the stage choice again. I am getting very comfortable there.

 

[Browny]

now recovering with Spinning Kong which Sonic can't really break through.

bair bair bair bair bair bair

 

[Tenki]

So, I had some matches with a DK. Spotdodge>D-smash definitely counterattacks F-air, or any SH aerial lol.

 

[Umby]

counters SH Bair? Impossible.

 

[Greenstreet]

Ok well i am ready to call this 1.

60: 40 or 65: 35 ?

I'll also chuck in that spotdodge -dmash stuff

 

[JayBee]

It seems from my experience that baiting fairs and spamming spring are very usable options aginst a DK, plus the size lets you combo him to high percents, along with the follow ups afterward. I try to position myself outside of f tilt's range, and just keep moving. from what I've seen, if they are having an issue hitting you, they begin camping a lot and spamming tilts. once i see that I try to gaud them to move again. For me, hitting and gietting DK in high % isn't the problem, its that killing him off is, and by then, he could have stuck around long enough to kill you first anyway. for example, I played a good DK in my area, and I comboed him and got him to about 130%, and I was still at 0%. but I couldn't kill him quick enough and he got me to 100% before I could. Now I've made it a point to start Up throw > Srping attempts about 110-120% (a rough estimate) and work offa that for the kill, its much m ore a pain to kill from the sides, unless I grab>pummel them near the edge.

 

[Umby]

Ok well i am ready to call this 1.

60: 40 or 65: 35 ?

I'll also chuck in that spotdodge -dmash stuff

In whose favor?

 

[aeghrur]

In whose favor?

Dk's by the way it seems. Do you disagree strongly Umby?

 

[Greenstreet]

Yeah sorry. definitely DK's. Should have clarified.

 

[Umby]

60:40 should probably be fine then.

 

[Browny]

greenstreet at least let my sonic play your DK before making a call, i hardly think your sonic vs my DK was enough to base your opinion on the matchup (and what works, what doesnt etc) when there is a reasonable skill level gap between us.

 

[Greenstreet]

I don't think I would do DK any justice at all. Infact he is probably the bloke I use least in the whole game. If you thought my Sonic was bad, you have no idea how bad my DK would be.

 

[Umby]

I'll see if I can fight a DK today, if anyone believes my skill is enough to gauge such things.

 

[aeghrur]

Yeah, your skill is enough to gauge such a thing in my opinion. =/

 

[Napilopez]

60:40 sounds acceptable, even if I disagree with it being in Sonic's disadvantage. However my experiences and opinions alone don't account for the rest of the Sonic community, so as a general consensus, 60:40 sounds about right.

 

[Browny]

meh, ill try get some videos up of my sonic vs DK. everyone on my wifi list is **** at brawl so ill have to try and convince my brother to let me get a replay... i still dont see whats so bad about this matchup. all the DK pros are always he lives forever, and KO's early. when that logic is applied to every matchup, he is instant top tier by a looooong way since no character outlives him, or KO's earlier. no one seems to take into the account that Sonic is extremely difficult to KO since his attacks have so little lag (dont use usmash and you dont die!) and DK is comparitively easy to land a KO move on that other characters (spot dodge owns in this matchup, as does dsmash while hes landing)

oh and for the last time, bair goes through spinning kong.

 

[Tenki]

meh, ill try get some videos up of my sonic vs DK. everyone on my wifi list is **** at brawl so ill have to try and convince my brother to let me get a replay... i still dont see whats so bad about this matchup. all the DK pros are always he lives forever, and KO's early. when that logic is applied to every matchup, he is instant top tier by a looooong way since no character outlives him, or KO's earlier. no one seems to take into the account that Sonic is extremely difficult to KO since his attacks have so little lag (dont use usmash and you dont die!) and DK is comparitively easy to land a KO move on that other characters (spot dodge owns in this matchup, as does dsmash while hes landing)

oh and for the last time, bair goes through spinning kong.

Basically, anything that you do that gets spotdodged, especially aerials, are begging for heavy punishment.

Thank Sakurai for our amazing aerial control.

 

[darkNES386]

60:40 sounds acceptable, even if I disagree with it being in Sonic's disadvantage. However my experiences and opinions alone don't account for the rest of the Sonic community, so as a general consensus, 60:40 sounds about right.

Yeah... I agree with that too. Honestly we should find that every matchup is either slightly against Sonic or even. There are very few if any opponents save maybe Captain Falcon, where Sonic has the advantage. There's a reason why the tier list looks like it does.

meh, ill try get some videos up of my sonic vs DK. everyone on my wifi list is **** at brawl so ill have to try and convince my brother to let me get a replay... i still dont see whats so bad about this matchup. all the DK pros are always he lives forever, and KO's early. when that logic is applied to every matchup, he is instant top tier by a looooong way since no character outlives him, or KO's earlier. no one seems to take into the account that Sonic is extremely difficult to KO since his attacks have so little lag (dont use usmash and you dont die!) and DK is comparitively easy to land a KO move on that other characters (spot dodge owns in this matchup, as does dsmash while hes landing)

oh and for the last time, bair goes through spinning kong.

Do you use ASC a lot against DK?

 

[Browny]

Yes, i use is mostly when i approach and retreat with a SHAD and then cancel that into another spin charge. If DK anticipates an approach and tries to punish with an SA giant punch/vb/grab, I dont get hit and can just hit him with the spincharge for an easy 30%. Its a pretty safe approach against lots of characters with no projectile. Or i could mix up the approach with an SH fair which i probably use just as often. the only moves i use are fair, ASC and a lot of grabs.

----

ok got i got footage of 3 3-minute matches, they will be up soon enough... Theres only a few instances of stupidity (getting hit by full charge smashes, using FF fairs instead of nairs) but the majority of it is ok. strangely enough i did far better against my brothers DK on battlefield than i did any other stage.

----

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3rMbS70SbqM

there they are
The first one was kinda fail on my part, second one was much better, and the third one, although i did the best in it, tripping + horribly misstimed bairs by me and fairs by my brother.

btw, @ 3:50 , bair goes through DK's upb (wheres the super armour???)
i also though 0:39 + was pretty cool

 

[darkNES386]

Are we ready to start discussing Link?

 

[Greenstreet]

yeah i want to 'new page it again tho'.
lol

 

[Browny]

so... no comments on my vids? I think me an my brother are pretty evenly matched... he knows my playstyle so he doesnt fall for the usual sonic tricks that will catch off people who arent used to playing him. I think i showed the use of ASC, fairs, spotdodges and grabs fairly well in the matchup, some things i think are important vs DK. (note the lack of tilts, which obviously dont work vs DKs range)

 

[Greenstreet]

watchin now. sorry dj

edit: well that video seems to support a nuetral conclusion at best? there was great use of the sd and comboing. but was this a case of knowing your opponent way to well?
i'm not sure. did u find that easy to do?

and the his up b was just in its starting animations wen u baired him i'd say

 

[Tenki]

The DK player kept trying to smash when he could have tilted, and he left himself open too much ;.;

 

[Greenstreet]

yer i noticed that, at 0:26.
Plenty of other instances, infact that was probably the one that was punished the least by Sonic.