Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[jaimex2]

Okay, I understand now and I also have no idea why. It's most probably due to bad programming (as usual). It seems to affect only SCJ (and "I"SCJ) though

I wonder how hard it would be to find someone on the smash dev team and do a bug report, pretty sure we'd need to able to speak Japanese though. Maybe if we made a video highlighting Sonic bugs and tried to get it as high on reddit as possible. The Diddy bugs got patched quickly enough that way.

 

[Camalange]

I wonder how hard it would be to find someone on the smash dev team and do a bug report, pretty sure we'd need to able to speak Japanese though. Maybe if we made a video highlighting Sonic bugs and tried to get it as high on reddit as possible. The Diddy bugs got patched quickly enough that way.

Difference is that it's not game breaking and no one cares but us.

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Okay, I understand now and I also have no idea why. It's most probably due to bad programming (as usual). It seems to affect only SCJ (and "I"SCJ) though, with no apparent effect on VSCJ (which corroborates the theory that VSCJ and VSDJ are just the same move: VSDJ - since it deals 3% instead of SCJ's 6%. That's why we should just call it VSJ and leave VSDJ to the new and useless jump from the SD).

Nevertheless, if you just wanna fastfall ASAP with no lag, just keep holding down during the SCJ animation and then press up on the C-stick. You'll automatically do a fastfallen Uair and land lagless.

Sounds fair enough. Good chance the answer is something as simple as a coding quirk. Honestly it just got me thinking about how the game views Spin Dash and Spin Charge individually. Concern for practicality was at the back of my mind lol. Thanks for the responses guys!

 

[vegeta18]

How does a sonic player know which aerial to go for after successfully landing a spin dash or spin charge, I often just nair cuz it hits all directions so less of a guess for me,but is the follow up aerial attack mostly based on percentages or di? Do you usually spam out the aerial attack right away or do you hit the SD jump and then see where your opponent is and react accordingly?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Git gud.
Ideally you would react to the opponent positioning and attack accordingly, but it is often not enough so it's usually a DI read. If the percentage is low enough any aerial does the job.

 

[Sonic Meaper]

Okay, I understand now and I also have no idea why. It's most probably due to bad programming (as usual). It seems to affect only SCJ (and "I"SCJ) though, with no apparent effect on VSCJ (which corroborates the theory that VSCJ and VSDJ are just the same move: VSDJ - since it deals 3% instead of SCJ's 6%. That's why we should just call it VSJ and leave VSDJ to the new and useless jump from the SD).

Nevertheless, if you just wanna fastfall ASAP with no lag, just keep holding down during the SCJ animation and then press up on the C-stick. You'll automatically do a fastfallen Uair and land lagless.



AFAIK you can't reverse the SC. I use reverse SDs all the time though, specially for spacing and when running past opponents. You can also do a reverse grab with it: run -> reverse SD -> shield -> grab.

On a side note, I feel like when trying OoS stuff from the SDSC sometimes ends with me being stuck in shield even if I pressed A or jump correctly. Upon further testing, I think that being in the charging state for like a frame instead of buffering the shield will pretty much ensure that the OoS will work. Anyone else having this issue?



We used to be able to but it was patched out as soon as the Wii U version came out.. *sigh*

Aw snap no wonder it didnt work Oh i forgot to tell you i dont have smash wii u so i dont think i will get it any time so i only play on 3ds

 

[BlackPhantom]

#WiiUMasterRace

 

[da K.I.D.]

knowing which aerial to use afte spindash is based on what form of spindash you hit with and the opponents percent.

side b hop requires a different follow up than side b roll which is different from down b roll which is different from aerial down b.
and the follow ups are different based on whether the opponent is at 0, 40, 80, 120 or 150.

 

[kj22]

knowing which aerial to use afte spindash is based on what form of spindash you hit with and the opponents percent.

side b hop requires a different follow up than side b roll which is different from down b roll which is different from aerial down b.
and the follow ups are different based on whether the opponent is at 0, 40, 80, 120 or 150.

nerd

 

[MechaGary]

Can someone explain to me how to finish enemies on Sonic? I'm having trouble KOing after chaining combos and racking up decent dmg. Essentially I just need to know what moves are best kill moves and at what percentages against heavy/medium/light targets and is rage necessary? Thank you in advance. I love this community.

 

[vegeta18]

Anyone know where I can see a decent sonic playing on castle seige? Is it a good counter pick to go to as sonic?

 

[MarKO X]

Can someone explain to me how to finish enemies on Sonic? I'm having trouble KOing after chaining combos and racking up decent dmg. Essentially I just need to know what moves are best kill moves and at what percentages against heavy/medium/light targets and is rage necessary? Thank you in advance. I love this community.

I can only give a guideline, as I play mostly on the 3ds, where I think killing is harder than on the Wii U because of stage size differences.

Basically, Sonic's kill come from reads as opposed to guaranteed set ups. Early kills are generally situational, requiring very specific damage ranges as well as certain levels of rage. At higher percents, your smash attacks will help you out, but dsmash and upsmash have slightly punishable recoveries, so be weary of that. Bair is also your friend.

Once you get to the super high percents, like 150 and up, upthrow and fthrow will do wonders. Bthrow on the edge will get you kills as well. Homing attack and spindash/spincharge into nair can kill as well.

Once again, I can only provide but so much input because of Wii U 3ds differences, but I do know that Sonic's kills are read based, and may require you to condition your opponents, while sometimes you may just have to keep doing damage and not get hit until you get a grab that will kill. Obviously that's not the optimal way of doing things, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

What I would do (and have done) is go to training mode and see when your attacks kill. Pick different characters from different weight classes and see when moves like your smash attacks, bair, nair, uair, homing attack, and your throws will kill. With that basic knowledge in your head, you'll be that much more confident in killing your opponents, and it will alleviate pressure within you, allowing you to play that much more better. Lab it up bro.







Sonic kills generally come from reads as opposed to guaranteed set ups, and it might be in your best interest to condition opponents into those reads that you need.

 

[BlackPhantom]

Sonic can't kill for **** until 150, unless you get a blessing in the form of an F-smash.

 

[jaimex2]

The funny thing is people think the same about trying to kill Sonic.

But yeah, we're mostly read based kills so if you're struggling to kill someone step back and play the neutral. Something always opens up.

SC > Nair or SC > Footstool > Dair are the only kill set-ups I know of that we can initiate. Everything is else is read based.

 

[MechaGary]

Thanks everyone! MarKO X that's exactly what I was looking for man. Thank you so much.

I just need more practice. I've only got about ten hours on Sonic so I think it will come with feeling out the character more. I play on both 3ds and Wii U, but I tend to take my Wii U matches more serious. I've loved sonic since I was a kid (my dog is even named Knuckles) so I want to get really good at him.

 

[Camalange]

You guys all under-appreciate how good Bair is.

 

[MechaGary]

Side B into shield short hop bair is my go to kill move right now. It feels so good

 

[Sonic Orochi]

You guys all under-appreciate how good Bair is.

It's so strong even sourspotted.

Too bad the almighty SC->Bair setup is kinda gone now.

And I think I prefer our old, fast, lagless Bair tbh.

 

[KyroChao]

Sonics bair is great but its still weird to be able to say that such a slow and laggy move is is about equal if not slightly weaker than a couple characters who have faster bairs like ZSS and fox, seems like such a weird thing to see those moves come out so fast and kill fairly well then see the fastest thing alive take a while just to strike.

 

[MechaGary]

Sonics bair is great but its still weird to be able to say that such a slow and laggy move is is about equal if not slightly weaker than a couple characters who have faster bairs like ZSS and fox, seems like such a weird thing to see those moves come out so fast and kill fairly well then see the fastest thing alive take a while just to strike.

This is no joke. It's the one thing I hate. There's no way fox should have faster animations on bair.

Is zss uptilt out of shield faster than sonic short hop Bair?

 

[Camalange]

It's so strong even sourspotted.

Too bad the almighty SC->Bair setup is kinda gone now.

And I think I prefer our old, fast, lagless Bair tbh.

You can still combo spin to Bair sometimes, though.

The sourspot is godlike.

I miss the lagless Bair as an approach option, but new Bair is amazing. Without it, Sonic would be killing strictly from throws and Fsmash reads...

Old Bair = Lagless, Disjointed below, great for spacing and low percent combos
New Bair = Can't be fast fallen because lag, no longer disjointed below, but slightly disjointed above the foot, can kill as early as 70-80% offstage against some characters with both the sourspot and sweetspot, sourspot is barely sour, and if I'm not mistaken, I am near certain Bair stays active longer than it did in Brawl, and because it's as powerful throughout, it's amazing for catching airdodges

 

[MarKO X]

I definitely under appreciate bair. Its a lovely move, and yet I only really use it offstage and sometimes after upthrow.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I just hope they don't ever nerf bair. Sooooo many people I play get frustrated with the move when I hit them with it because of how good it is but fail to realize all the negative aspects that keep it in line as a fair KO options. Like it hitting at frame 13 which is pretty slow compared to both fox and ZSS's bair's which hit arguably just as if not harder than our.

 

[Camalange]

If they nerf Bair I actually will just give up.

 

[KyroChao]

I'll stay loyal to sonic no matter what but i will be beyond salty and he probably won't be my primary main anymore

 

[Camalange]

I mean, I would never not main Sonic, I would probably just stop playing. Like, I'd quit the game before I'd stop maining Sonic.

Realistically, I'd probably just ***** about it, figure it out, and deal with it.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I mean, I would never not main Sonic, I would probably just stop playing. Like, I'd quit the game before I'd stop maining Sonic.

Realistically, I'd probably just ***** about it, figure it out, and deal with it.

This guy gets it.

Spoiler

 

[bsjkupo]

This guy gets it.

Spoiler

I actually was having an intense discussion about this sort of stuff with another player today as well as some of my students; a lot of them started going along with the mentality that if their character got nerfed/never got buffed they would just quit the game or, even worse, say smash 4 is "bad" because of it. It was rather shocking how negative the approach was and some other students pointed this out as a general fighting game problem across the genre which is a shame.

Although if B-air does get hit I will moan like a ***** as well xD (would still main the Blue Blur tho!)

 

[jaimex2]

Its pretty safe to say they are done adjusting Sonic. Bair is a strong KO move but very read dependant.

Nintendo would have analytics on what moves KO the most and adjust accordingly where the kills are too easy. ie, Guaranteed KOs from Luigi grabbing.

My predicted nerf targets for next patch are:

ZSS's Boost kick setups.
DK's cargo grab , Up smash combo.
Luma's uptilt.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

pretty sure our bair would be at the top of the list for our KO options if that were the case. Given how important our offstage game is.

 

[MarKO X]

I think our bair is fairly safe from the nerf wagon. It's not an attack that someone who doesn't play Sonic can just pick him up and abuse like, say, pre-nerf Luigi down throw. Like Cam said, it's under appreciated, so even Sonic mains must not be using it all that much, right?

 

[Camalange]

I think our bair is fairly safe from the nerf wagon. It's not an attack that someone who doesn't play Sonic can just pick him up and abuse like, say, pre-nerf Luigi down throw. Like Cam said, it's under appreciated, so even Sonic mains must not be using it all that much, right?

At this point, I don't assume anything is safe, tbh.

 

[Espy Rose]

Nothing is safe in a world where Pacman and little mac are nerfed.

 

[jordanm43444]

I think our bair is fairly safe from the nerf wagon. It's not an attack that someone who doesn't play Sonic can just pick him up and abuse like, say, pre-nerf Luigi down throw. Like Cam said, it's under appreciated, so even Sonic mains must not be using it all that much, right?

Well I mean, with the amount of BAirs Joe flung out during the set against Zero they could take that into account but who knows.

 

[soniczx123]

Well I mean, with the amount of BAirs Joe flung out during the set against Zero they could take that into account but who knows.

Like Nintendo watched the TBH5...

 

[jordanm43444]

Like Nintendo watched the TBH5...

I mean yea its unlikely they watched TBH5 but word of mouth could have spread to them. Its not like Nintendo hasnt patched out "issues" in the past

 

[Camalange]

I didn't know that having KO moves counted as an issue...?

 

[soniczx123]

I didn't know that having KO moves counted as an issue...?

If people complain about it, it's an issue


kappa

 

[Camalange]

If people complain about it, it's an issue


kappa

Did you know that characters can make it back to the stage after getting hit by using recovery moves?

pls nerf

 

[soniczx123]

Did you know that characters can make it back to the stage after getting hit by using recovery moves?

pls nerf

Honestly, a general nerf to recoveries or more reward for edgeguarding is needed