Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Ax^2]

I usually just Fair > Ftilt since getting the Utilt to reach doesn't seem to work for me.

Maybe it's more likely if you hit with the center of Fair, or maybe I'm just not getting it at the right percent.

I have tested the combo out more and this is what I found.

1. Yes you are correct, you need to hit the opponent at the center with the Fair as opposed to in front. That way, connecting the Utilt is easier.
2. After the knockback hit, you need to keep moving forward towards the opponent, to the point where you enter the first few frames of the walk animation after landing.
3.This is the tricky part, basically you Utilt during the walk, this makes sonic slide a bit during the attack. This is how the move will connect. Now you can follow up with a Fair/Uair string.
4. Weight/size related, works on Bowser, DK, and King DeDeDe pretty well along with Ike and Cloud. I tried it on Mario and could NOT pull off the combo. It appears that it only works on anyone bigger than Sonic.

This sounds like too much of a hassle to pull off, but once you get the hang of it it's pretty easy. Im just having a hard time explaining it. I'll probably post a video showing it off or something when I get the time to.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Its buried in my lab thread but you can also combo up tilt to up tilt to grab/f tilt/dash attack/fair strings on fast fallers near 0 percent.

Its still very bad but up tilt isnt as useless as it was in brawl

 

[Sonic Meaper]

Hello guys i have questions

How can you perform reverse instant spin dash jump in 3ds. I saw sonic running then used reverse spin dash then performed instant spin dash jump the opposite way sonic is facing. Is it possible? I watched this instant spin dash jump videos

Can you list me combos of instant spin dash jump. I was creating combos with instant spin dash

Does anyone favor this combo utilt > uair >nair? it deals more damage

 

[Ax^2]

You can go from an ISDJ to a Fair. This doesnt lead to follow ups or deal as much damage as other combos, but I can see it being used for edge guarding. The reverse instant spin dash jump is performed by doing a b-reverse SD while running, and then jumping. Basically a ISDJ, but a b-reverse and it needs to be frame perfect.


There is also a SC combo where you can chain them in succession several times, but this is more dependant on reads than the combo itself being inescapable.

You SC into the enemy > SCJ > footstool backwards > ariel SC into enemy. Rinse and repeat.

The enemy is forced onto the ground by the footstool and is unable to tech at that height. All you have to do then is read your enemy and release SC accoringly. I recommend SC because it doesn't have as much knockback when jumping out of it, so you can footstool easier. It isin't effective at low percents however, so at low percents use SD.

 

[Camalange]

ISDJ combos are exactly the same as any other SDJ combos, because that's literally what it is.

If anything, it's more limited, since you'll pretty much always hit at the same angle which will send them away from you.

 

[Ax^2]

So i found that you could do a reverse shield cancelled SD slide about an hour ago, where you just slide after quickly shield cancelling the SD, but instead of facing the direction you were going, you face the opposite. I dunno how to use this practically though. Does anyone else know about this?

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, it's known. You get weird slides and positioning depending on when you buffer the shield cancel or the turn around/pivot.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I am currently learning Sonic, and am really enjoying him. However, I seem to recall seeing a way to make his dash grab a bit better. Isn't it possible to be able to do your Standing Grab out of a Spin Dash or something? Or Shield a Spin Dash, something along those lines? I hope I haven't just made this up.

 

[Ax^2]

I am currently learning Sonic, and am really enjoying him. However, I seem to recall seeing a way to make his dash grab a bit better. Isn't it possible to be able to do your Standing Grab out of a Spin Dash or something? Or Shield a Spin Dash, something along those lines? I hope I haven't just made this up.

Yes you can. Although I dont know its name, you basically do a SD, shield cancel real quick (so that you're sliding), and then shield grab while you're still sliding. This is actually way better than his dash grab, the only thing is that you need a bit of speed for it so it can be a bit difficult to use it sometimes.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

does sonic hold enough options to be played free-formed? As in, does he allow the player enough freedom to do what that player pleases?

 

[Camalange]

does sonic hold enough options to be played free-formed? As in, does he allow the player enough freedom to do what that player pleases?

I don't think I understand the question.

Every character has strengths and weaknesses that need to be adhered to in order to fully utilize them. Characters have their guaranteed follow-ups/most optimal punishes/etc. to maximize damage or improve positioning and stage control.

Granted, you will see discrepancies amongst playstyles with the same characters for sure, as not only does every character have their strengths and weaknesses, but so do the players that use them. It depends on what your definition of "free-formed" is.

You might have a Sonic like Komorokiri who is incredibly optimal off of a hit and has strong sense stage control and positioning, or a Sonic like 6WX who has strong mix-ups, adaptation, and movement.

No player can just do as they please, especially when there's another player you're competing with who you have to respect as well. You have to learn your character, your opponent, and yourself.

Or you can just do whatever you want, but that won't get you very far and you won't grow.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I don't think I understand the question.

Every character has strengths and weaknesses that need to be adhered to in order to fully utilize them. Characters have their guaranteed follow-ups/most optimal punishes/etc. to maximize damage or improve positioning and stage control.

Granted, you will see discrepancies amongst playstyles with the same characters for sure, as not only does every character have their strengths and weaknesses, but so do the players that use them. It depends on what your definition of "free-formed" is.

You might have a Sonic like Komorokiri who is incredibly optimal off of a hit and has strong sense stage control and positioning, or a Sonic like 6WX who has strong mix-ups, adaptation, and movement.

No player can just do as they please, especially when there's another player you're competing with who you have to respect as well. You have to learn your character, your opponent, and yourself.

Or you can just do whatever you want, but that won't get you very far and you won't grow.

Let me give an extremely easy example):


In smash, there are the Melee fox-ish characters with abundant options that takes huge amounts of execution to acquire them. These characters offer their player a sense of control and feel, since you actually have to go to the training mode and train these types because they're very hard to optimize.

and there are the jiggly puffs that takes execution in properly setting up the opponent for failure and consistently punishing their attempts. The execution is in playing the opponent and not your character (easy to use types).

So is sonic a melee fox character type of a jiggly puff?

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Id say sonic falls somewhere in the middle of that. Where if you understand how the character operates you get that sense of control but you still need to know how to setup and execute things while not getting too out of control or else your going to lose vs skilled players.

 

[Ax^2]

Sonic benefits from his speed (duh), but you need to get used to knowing how to control it since it can mess you up, but you can do a lot of wacky stuff with it if you learn how to utilize it. His combos mostly come out of his SD and SC into ariels. He has okay-ish ariel mobility and great vertical recovery, and if you master the spin shot, horizontal recovery, making getting back to the stage a piece of cake. You will need quite a bit of training to get the most out of Sonic, but he's an overall "safe character" to play as. His moves dont hit hard all alone (except fwd smash... that has great knockback) and require precision, so you'll usually find yourself combo-ing opponents to death with him instead of trying to land a smash attack. So he will do very well against large foes but sucks against characters with projectiles ('cause they interrupt your spin attacks).

All you need to know is control of speed and thats pretty much it... aside from the fundementals of course.

 

[Kantrip]

Hey sonic boards! I've been messing around in training mode trying to get the different iterations of ISDJ down and wanted to clarify a few things:

First off, the difference between turnaround, b-reverse, and wavebounce. To my understanding, a turnaround B move is when you keep your momentum but face the other way. A B-reverse move is when you reverse your momentum and face the other way, and a wavebounce is when you reverse your momentum but keep facing the same way. Is this all correct?

Second, when hitting the opponent with a spindash jump, you always send them in the direction you are facing, yes?

Assuming my understanding of these first two questions is correct, would it be correct to assume the only useful applications of ISDJ would be regular (face forward, ISDJ forward) and B-reverse (face backward, ISDJ backward)? These two versions of ISDJ cause you to move in the same direction as you send the opponent, allowing for follow-ups (probably f-air). Doing a turnaround ISDJ or a wavebounce ISDJ would cause you to send the opponent one way and fly in the opposite direction, right?

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

Did the spin-shot get patched out?

 

[Ax^2]

Did the spin-shot get patched out?

Nope. It works just fine at least for me (i use the spin charge and c-stick)

 

[Camalange]

Did the spin-shot get patched out?

No.

I also keep my videos, and my threads (such as this one), up to date for patch notes.

 

[Bwill3002]

Hey guys. I was in the training mode, just messing around, and I did a spindash (side b) while, into shield, when accidently pressed down activating spotdodge while running. I started trying doing and eventually got it. Is this a useful at all? I think it would work against players/character with good dash grabs, you can smash attack out it, jab, and options. I just did it today, I'll have two or three videos of it later showing it.

Hey guys. I was in the training mode, just messing around, and I did a spindash (side b) while, into shield, when accidently pressed down activating spotdodge while running. I started trying doing and eventually got it. Is this a useful at all? I think it would work against players/character with good dash grabs, you can smash attack out it, jab, and options. I just did it today, I'll have two or three videos of it later showing it.

I have the video, another one is coming (link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGKN7yjW_jc ).
Time stamps - (0:03 - 0:15), (0:18 to 0:37), (1:05 - 1:20), (1:50 - end of video)
These are timestamps show spin dash spot dodge happening more than once. LOOK THROUGH EACH ONE ENTIRELY, AND NOT JUST THE FIRST TIME IT HAPPERNS PLEASE!!


The spin dash into spot dodge happens twice in the first 0:03 and 0:15 seconds of the match, 0:18-0:21 0:26-0:37. Skip to 1:05 (in between 0:37-1:05 I was perfect pivoting f-smash). The best examples of this in my opinion are 1:05 - 1:20. Then go to 1:50

 

[Ax^2]

I have the video, another one is coming (link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGKN7yjW_jc ).
Time stamps - (0:03 - 0:15), (0:18 to 0:37), (1:05 - 1:20), (1:50 - end of video)
These are timestamps show spin dash spot dodge happening more than once. LOOK THROUGH EACH ONE ENTIRELY, AND NOT JUST THE FIRST TIME IT HAPPERNS PLEASE!!


The spin dash into spot dodge happens twice in the first 0:03 and 0:15 seconds of the match, 0:18-0:21 0:26-0:37. Skip to 1:05 (in between 0:37-1:05 I was perfect pivoting f-smash). The best examples of this in my opinion are 1:05 - 1:20. Then go to 1:50

To be completely honest, i dont see any situation that this could be useful. If anything its just a visual mixup, it doesnt benefit the player at all unless you're right up in the opponent's face and need to dodge an attack while applying pressure or something. I find a running spot dodge more useful, as it keeps forward momentum going a bit during the beginning of the spot dodge and can help prevent you getting hurt while closing in on your opponent. (With some characters at least, like mario. Just hit shield and spot dodge REAL QUICK while running.)

Edit: I dunno whats up with Sonic, but you can do a grab out of a Spin Dash as well. Just press grab instead of shield, but as with the SD spot dodge, I see no use for it.

 

[Bwill3002]

To be completely honest, i dont see any situation that this could be useful. If anything its just a visual mixup, it doesnt benefit the player at all unless you're right up in the opponent's face and need to dodge an attack while applying pressure or something. I find a running spot dodge more useful, as it keeps forward momentum going a bit during the beginning of the spot dodge and can help prevent you getting hurt while closing in on your opponent. (With some characters at least, like mario)

Thanks, I just wanted to see if this was something useful.

 

[Camalange]

Spin Dash is cancelable by shield, so of course you can spot dodge or grab after shield as well.

 

[Kantrip]

Let me simplify my earlier question as I figured out most of it: Does spin dash jump always send the opponent in the direction you are facing?

Also:

-Is SD > up air > up air ever a true kill combo?
-Is up throw > up air ever a true kill combo?
-When is Spin Charge a better option than Spin Dash? I'm aware of the differences, but when should down b be used over side b?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ax^2]

Let me simplify my earlier question as I figured out most of it: Does spin dash jump always send the opponent in the direction you are facing?

Also:

-Is SD > up air > up air ever a true kill combo?
-Is up throw > up air ever a true kill combo?
-When is Spin Charge a better option than Spin Dash? I'm aware of the differences, but when should down b be used over side b?

Thanks in advance.

Based on my experience, you should use the spin dash instead of spin charge at low percents since it has more knockback than the SC, and in this case this means you are able to combo into an aerial easier where as the SC doesn't knock the opponent as high/far as the SD so it will be difficult to connect an aerial attack. When you are at high percents though, SC is the way to go. Its low knockback during the jump combined with the opponents flight distance from the attack almost ALWAYS garrantees that an aerial will connect. It stops connecting above around 140% depending on your rage/opponent's weight class though... but if you hurt em that bad then Uair should be enough to kill them.

SD > Uair > Uair is a true combo at low percents but fails after 50% or something because the enemy has enough time to react (I might be off with the percent but you get the idea... and im talking about SD > Uair > (jump)Uair, not spring.). You can pull off a back air instead of a 2nd Up air if you're quick with it still being a true combo. This is only a true kill combo at 85~110%, but here, you SD > Uair > spring > Uair. Depending on how low the ceiling is, this will kill more often than not but don't depend on it because your opponent will most likely see this coming and DI out of it.

Up throw > Uair is a kill combo around 90% ish (In the general percent range at least), but I wouldn't call it true because most of the times I have tried this at any reasonable kill percent, the opponent can avoid it by jumping or dodging. When it does connect and is a true combo, it doesnt kill. This is just my experience though so make sure you test em out first.

 

[Camalange]

- Spindash > Uair > Uair is not a kill combo.

- I pray both of you mean Uthrow > Spring > Uair.

Also, that won't really set-up for a kill unless your opponent has bad DI or if you have incredible stage positioning. That's why you see so many Sonic go for airdodge punishes to secure the kill instead. Uthrow > Spring > bait airdodge > Uair/Dair/Nair

I killed with Uthrow > Spring > Uair at 39% at my last tournament off the top of Town & City thanks to that platform.

- Spin Charge is almost always easier to combo with due to its lower knockback. Spin Dash is almost always better in neutral because of the hop, start-up invincibility, and being able to shield cancel.

 

[Kantrip]

I meant Spindash > Uair > Spring > Uair and Uthrow > Spring > Uair respectively.

It seems like the opponent always has time to airdodge after Spindash > Uair > Spring before I can get the last Uair off. If they airdodge I can get an airdodge read but I was hoping there was a time when I don't have to wait for an airdodge and can just get another Uair.

 

[TrainerRed27]

Question: has dash -> sliding spin charge been discussed?

 

[Camalange]

Question: has dash -> sliding spin charge been discussed?

Yes.

What about it?

 

[Grimtixx]

Alright, so I'm in a minor dilemma here. After the discovery that Lucas's nair is able to be SDI'ed out of so easily, I began to lose confidence in my ability to play the character. It is a shame too, since Lucas is one of my favorite characters but I am trying to look for a more consistent character to main. I'm not sure about dropping Lucas yet but the only other characters that I love for what they are other than him are Meta-Knight and Sonic. Now on to the actual point. Do you guys think that I should main Sonic until/if the whole hitbox situation with Lucas is sorted out? I really would appreciate some input as I prefer characters with safe shield pressure/good punish game. I love making people pay for mistakes and such.

 

[Camalange]

Play who you want to play.

 

[TrainerRed27]

Yes.

What about it?

I just couldn't find it. Would you mind linking me to it?

 

[Bwill3002]

Hey guys, I have few questions about Sonic match ups, and I think this is the best place to get my answers.

1. How does Little Mac do against Sonic? I secondary Fox and I have little match up experciance against the character. I was on smash ladder I lost game one as Sonic to Ike then I switched to Fox game two and beat my opponent mercilessly, to which he went Little Mac and my Fox got DESTROYED. I didn't wanna go Sonic knowing my best option could be interrupted by jab and super armor smash attacks. Could anyone explain the match up for me if I were to go Sonic?

2. Does Sonic loose to Mario and how bad? I know Fox gets desiccated (at least when I play it) because he's a fast faller and light.

 

[Camalange]

I just couldn't find it. Would you mind linking me to it?

Here you are.

http://smashboards.com/threads/rollingspincharge-sonic-advanced-technique.417290/

Hey guys, I have few questions about Sonic match ups, and I think this is the best place to get my answers.

1. How does Little Mac do against Sonic? I secondary Fox and I have little match up experciance against the character. I was on smash ladder I lost game one as Sonic to Ike then I switched to Fox game two and beat my opponent mercilessly, to which he went Little Mac and my Fox got DESTROYED. I didn't wanna go Sonic knowing my best option could be interrupted by jab and super armor smash attacks. Could anyone explain the match up for me if I were to go Sonic?

2. Does Sonic loose to Mario and how bad? I know Foc gets desiccated (at least when I play it) because he's a fast faller and light.

1. Mac and Fox both completely outshine Sonic in neutral, but lose offstage.

2. I believe Sonic either goes even with or has a slight advantage over Mario.

 

[Ax^2]

Hey guys, I have few questions about Sonic match ups, and I think this is the best place to get my answers.

1. How does Little Mac do against Sonic? I secondary Fox and I have little match up experciance against the character. I was on smash ladder I lost game one as Sonic to Ike then I switched to Fox game two and beat my opponent mercilessly, to which he went Little Mac and my Fox got DESTROYED. I didn't wanna go Sonic knowing my best option could be interrupted by jab and super armor smash attacks. Could anyone explain the match up for me if I were to go Sonic?

2. Does Sonic loose to Mario and how bad? I know Foc gets desiccated (at least when I play it) because he's a fast faller and light.

Sonic vs Little Mac isn't that bad of a match up imo. You can avoid his jab with the spin charge. I dont know why, but the spin charge out prioritizes jabs while the spin dash doesn't. Little Mac's aerials suck compared to sonic and he has few useful options in the air so I suggest just getting him up there, especially off stage where he's very easily killed.

With Mario vs Sonic, Mario has WAY more effective close range combos and options (and fireballs that can stop sonic mid-spin dash). Sonic cant combo as well as mario can, but he is much faster and his combos are stronger if you can find an opening. I guess they are even but I personally think Mario has the edge due to his vast aerial and ground options. I mean come on... if sonic spin dashes, cape it. If sonic is close to you... grab > super combos. If sonic is off stage... fluud him to gimp, or better yet, Fair meteor smash.

 

[HoSmash4]

Does anyone know sonic's safety on sheild for his moves? (If theres a spreadsheet with this data)
Thanks

 

[Camalange]

Sonic vs Little Mac isn't that bad of a match up imo. You can avoid his jab with the spin charge. I dont know why, but the spin charge out prioritizes jabs while the spin dash doesn't. Little Mac's aerials suck compared to sonic and he has few useful options in the air so I suggest just getting him up there, especially off stage where he's very easily killed.

Spin is only good if you hit between Mac's jabs. Otherwise it'll clank and his jab comes out frame 1 and you lose neutral.

With Mario vs Sonic, Mario has WAY more effective close range combos and options (and fireballs that can stop sonic mid-spin dash). Sonic cant combo as well as mario can, but he is much faster and his combos are stronger if you can find an opening. I guess they are even but I personally think Mario has the edge due to his vast aerial and ground options. I mean come on... if sonic spin dashes, cape it. If sonic is close to you... grab > super combos. If sonic is off stage... fluud him to gimp, or better yet, Fair meteor smash.

I disagree.

Fireballs are kind of weak. They're okay long range, but mid range it's very easy to powershield and punish, or even use the invincible start-up of Side-B to eat the fireball and get a free punish from Spin Roll.

A lot of Mario's combo game isn't as effective on Sonic because of Spring. At low percents, they're guaranteed maybe 2 follow-ups, but Utilt > Utilt > Usmash won't work because we can Spring out after the second Utilt. With proper DI and Spring, there's no reason Mario should be getting huge combos on you.

We can combo Mario quite effectively. If you mess up you'll eat a Nair most likely, but we can space him out with Bairs, juggle with Uairs since he can really only cover himself with Nair/Dair which we can outspace.

On the ground, we can literally just run away or powershield his options. Every Mario in the world fishes for kills, primarily with Usmash, which is really easy to bait and Sonic has effective tools for punishing all of this. Sonic can Bair or Spring gimp Mario offstage since his recovery is rather linear, but if you incorrectly time it, his Up-B will eat the Spring and ignore it.

Also, if your'e actually getting gimped by FLUDD or are getting your Spins caped, then you are doing something horribly, horribly wrong. FLUDD is just meant to stall or bait your recovery options.

Fair spike can also be avoided in most situations with proper DI. They'll only get it from a read, but our recovery options are so diverse that it's pretty easy to bait and/or avoid altogether.

This is why I think Sonic has the slight advantage.

The biggest things Mario has for him are easier to land and more powerful KO moves, strong aerial priority and spacing tools, and all around stronger neutral game, despite the fact that Sonic doesn't get as bodied by his confirms as most.

 

[Mr.PersonSir]

CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED?! https://youtu.be/Ns72Fn_on7g
So basically at 0:28 my friend gets to use his up B twice. We weren't using customs btw

 

[soniczx123]

CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED?! https://youtu.be/Ns72Fn_on7g
So basically at 0:28 my friend gets to use his up B twice. We weren't using customs btw

You footstooled him while he was in spring animation so he went out of freefall.

 

[Mr.PersonSir]

You footstooled him while he was in spring animation so he went out of freefall.

Oh thanks

 

[Camalange]

Multiple Spring are always caused by hidden footstool jumps.