Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Brickyoyo]

Hey guys. I was a main back in the very early meta game (we're talking 3DS Day 1 early), and I mained him up until he got his back throw knockback nerfed. I took a long break playing as Sonic until recently, when my duo of and couldn't really take some match ups like and . Since I played him during the early days, I figured I'd pick him back up again, and I forgot how much fun it was to play as Sonic. I know a lot of people hate him both in Smash and in the video game community, but since Sonic can handle some match ups my duo can't (not to mention me being a pretty big Sonic fan), I let him back into my roster as my main secondary.
With that story out of the way, what's a good way to keep Sonic from becoming predictable? I still have that problem.

There's not really one way, it's more the player trying different combos and approaches. Try to not make your intent obvious and with Sonic's speed, it's pretty easy to like run one way but then turn around and catch them off guard.

Also just want to mention that I did just post a new thread about possibly and Sonic Main Discord server for all the people on this forum

 

[Damandatwin]

I think I found the "best" control layout for Sonic, best meaning it lets you do all his tech (that I know of). Basically you have one shoulder button set to special, c-stick set to attack, and tap jump on.

The shoulder button set to special and the c-stick set to attack let you do the wavebounce side B. The c-stick set to attack also lets you do spinshots. Tap jump is there for double-sticking so that you can easily buffer short hop up airs (you can also do this by tilting the control stick slightly up and then just doing x/y -> a really fast but I found this really hard to do out of a dash).

The most inconvenient thing about this for me is tap jump on, but personally I think it's worth getting used to for the buffered up airs. I would prefer to use a shoulder button for jump but you need that set to special for the wavebounce.

Personally I am not sure yet if changing my controls around for wavebounce side B is worth it, I haven't seen much practical use of it. But if it turns out not to be good enough I'll just set a shoulder button to jump and turn off tap jump

 

[Noba]

ohkay

 

[Ax^2]

Hey guys. I was a main back in the very early meta game (we're talking 3DS Day 1 early), and I mained him up until he got his back throw knockback nerfed. I took a long break playing as Sonic until recently, when my duo of and couldn't really take some match ups like and . Since I played him during the early days, I figured I'd pick him back up again, and I forgot how much fun it was to play as Sonic. I know a lot of people hate him both in Smash and in the video game community, but since Sonic can handle some match ups my duo can't (not to mention me being a pretty big Sonic fan), I let him back into my roster as my main secondary.
With that story out of the way, what's a good way to keep Sonic from becoming predictable? I still have that problem.

WARNING... RANT AHEAD!

Just make sure you dont make it obvious what you're going for. Mix it up... a lot. Throw your opponent off by conditioning them to do one thing, then punish, like spin dash cancelling.

What I noticed with spin cancelling is that it conditions opponents to go for an aerial option because they assume the air is safer vs a head on spin dash... and they're right for the most part. If you read them, you can punish them with your own aerial and continue from there. Like an up air juggle or something. This also might condition the opponent to just whiff out attacks like a tilt or even sield. Get em with a grab or an aerial!

Oh btw, find ways to use the spin slide (https://youtu.be/lHHp7GTIrAM). Its a real good technique to use and will piss off your opponent once mastered. You can use it to extend your grab range, and just be very mobile in general. I think its main use is to do a sliding standing grab, which is far quicker and overall better than a running grab imo. The down side to it is that you need to be running to do it, so it wont be useful at close range.

But yeah that's my two cents.

I think I found the "best" control layout for Sonic, best meaning it lets you do all his tech (that I know of). Basically you have one shoulder button set to special, c-stick set to attack, and tap jump on.

The shoulder button set to special and the c-stick set to attack let you do the wavebounce side B. The c-stick set to attack also lets you do spinshots. Tap jump is there for double-sticking so that you can easily buffer short hop up airs (you can also do this by tilting the control stick slightly up and then just doing x/y -> a really fast but I found this really hard to do out of a dash).

The most inconvenient thing about this for me is tap jump on, but personally I think it's worth getting used to for the buffered up airs. I would prefer to use a shoulder button for jump but you need that set to special for the wavebounce.

Personally I am not sure yet if changing my controls around for wavebounce side B is worth it, I haven't seen much practical use of it. But if it turns out not to be good enough I'll just set a shoulder button to jump and turn off tap jump

Dude the only practical use i see for sonic's specials is for the homing attack, since it reverses your direction if there isn't a target. Its useless for side b because you dont gain/reverse any momentum from it.... unless you happen to be talking about spin cancelling it... because that completely reverses your sliding momentum. That is good for positioning yourself in a match, mixups, and for throwing people off. Hehe

 

[Damandatwin]

yes i'm talking about wavebouncing the side b to reverse your momentum

 

[jaimex2]

Bayoneta MU, I'm interested to know how you guys deal with witch-time.

After going past 60% I'm resorting to aerials only with a campy grab-fest on the ground. Anyone got a better way?

 

[Ax^2]

Bayoneta MU, I'm interested to know how you guys deal with witch-time.

After going past 60% I'm resorting to aerials only with a campy grab-fest on the ground. Anyone got a better way?

Im not experienced in the matchup, but im pretty sure if you mix up your game and keep the opponent pressured, it will make it easier to read their choices in the situations you throw them in.

As for me, if i know im going to get witch time'd, i try to avoid it by pressuring the opponent to see what they're up to. If I know it's inevitable (like when im in a spin and cant make the jump over Bayo), I try to throw a strong hitbox before hand like a nair out of spindash. Since its quick and has the highest damage in the first frames of the attack, it will usually negate Bayo's uncharged smashes. It has happened several times with me.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Multihit moves are pretty good against it.
Spin Charge, Fair, and somewhat Uair all work.

But the best strategy is to try to stay either super safe as jaimex stated, and/or unpredictable.

 

[OpKing93]

I really want to master Sonic as my main. I know watching my replays, train against lvl 9 CPU's and my amiibo, read my opponent then think of a quick strategy are the right ways to get better, but when i go against someone, I always get that In gonna lose feeling and I end up losing. Is there any tips that anyone can share with me or better yet, train with me on the 3ds?

 

[Ax^2]

I really want to master Sonic as my main. I know watching my replays, train against lvl 9 CPU's and my amiibo, read my opponent then think of a quick strategy are the right ways to get better, but when i go against someone, I always get that In gonna lose feeling and I end up losing. Is there any tips that anyone can share with me or better yet, train with me on the 3ds?

Well see, the thing with fighting a CPU is that it is not human. It will most likely choose a specific option several times in the same situation based on effectiveness, and it doest usually care about tricking you like a real person would. I once fought a level 9 mario and just hovered above it to see what it would do. It up smashed and hit me, so i tried coming from directly above and sometimes to the sides a bit. It up smashed almost every time (4 times consecutively), and when it didnt, it was an up tilt. Cpus are predictable and can be read most of the time. So when you fight against them, you get used to their predictability and just... fight. Not much thought involved. When you happen to fight a person at some point, you wont know how to handle the way they play because you are so used to a cpu's predictability that you won't be able to adapt as quickly.

A human player is far different. The person knows the combos their character can pull off and knows their strengths and weaknesses. They can do things a cpu could never do (bayonetta's off stage recovery is a good example, see a cpu vs and actual, good player recover. Cpu is pathetic.... funny even) An actual person is UNPREDICTABLE, and can punish far harder than a cpu, AND they adapt. I always suggest fighting a person instead of a cpu because that is when you learn all the hardcore stuff. Just jump into for glory mode, on anther's ladder, fight people from here... anything. I think the only reason i would recommend fighting a cpu is to get used to the basics and the need to know stuff about gameplay.

 

[Wonfi]

dreamland or battlefield?, what stage is worst choice for sonic? if i ban DL they go BF... and if i ban BF they go DL, dont know the blast zones at all in DL

 

[OpKing93]

Well see, the thing with fighting a CPU is that it is not human. It will most likely choose a specific option several times in the same situation based on effectiveness, and it doest usually care about tricking you like a real person would. I once fought a level 9 mario and just hovered above it to see what it would do. It up smashed and hit me, so i tried coming from directly above and sometimes to the sides a bit. It up smashed almost every time (4 times consecutively), and when it didnt, it was an up tilt. Cpus are predictable and can be read most of the time. So when you fight against them, you get used to their predictability and just... fight. Not much thought involved. When you happen to fight a person at some point, you wont know how to handle the way they play because you are so used to a cpu's predictability that you won't be able to adapt as quickly.

A human player is far different. The person knows the combos their character can pull off and knows their strengths and weaknesses. They can do things a cpu could never do (bayonetta's off stage recovery is a good example, see a cpu vs and actual, good player recover. Cpu is pathetic.... funny even) An actual person is UNPREDICTABLE, and can punish far harder than a cpu, AND they adapt. I always suggest fighting a person instead of a cpu because that is when you learn all the hardcore stuff. Just jump into for glory mode, on anther's ladder, fight people from here... anything. I think the only reason i would recommend fighting a cpu is to get used to the basics and the need to know stuff about gameplay.

Ah ok, I get it! CPU's are useless to fight against unless l'm practicing new combos and such. So instead, I should learn my characters pros and cons, learn how to adapt when fighting in for glory in order to get better! Thanks, for so long I thought CPU's was the was to go.

 

[Camalange]

dreamland or battlefield?, what stage is worst choice for sonic? if i ban DL they go BF... and if i ban BF they go DL, dont know the blast zones at all in DL

Blast zones are lower on DL. You also have a risk of messing up your recovery because of the janky bottom of the stage. There's also the wind, which can either be in or out of your favor.

BF has two different ledges, one of which being jankier than the other, but the blast zones are all around a little more forgiving.

Comes down to the character you're facing. Sonic can cheese people pretty well on DL (getting a grab on the top platform around 30-60% followed by Spring > Uair is a kill confirm) but Rosalina and some others probably have an easier and safer time taking that advantage over you instead.

BF is generally a safer choice, but it comes down mostly to comfort. Most Sonics don't like BF, but I do. Gives us more landing options and we can utilize our platform movement.

 

[ぱみゅ]

BF is generally a safer choice, but it comes down mostly to comfort. Most Sonics don't like BF, but I do. Gives us more landing options and we can utilize our platform movement.

And we can use Dsmash to anti-ledgesnap there more efficiently.

 

[Sonic Meaper]

Ah ok, I get it! CPU's are useless to fight against unless l'm practicing new combos and such. So instead, I should learn my characters pros and cons, learn how to adapt when fighting in for glory in order to get better! Thanks, for so long I thought CPU's was the was to go.

I can help train you if you want to. Here 2294-7045-5918

 

[Wonfi]

And we can use Dsmash to anti-ledgesnap there more efficiently.

but we learn from komorikiri 1 thing: Fsmash all the time in the ledge for punish recoveries :v

 

[OpKing93]

I can help train you if you want to. Here 2294-7045-5918

Cool, Fc:3282-6238-7990 I'll be on at 4pm.

 

[Sonic Meaper]

Hello there is one thing I don't understand the term. What does pressuring mean? I learned this from my friend who train me. How do you pressure? The only thing I can think of on pressuring is baits mind games hit and step back and punish every options. Please tell me how to pressure so I can practice on it. Another thing is I am more defensive so how do you work on offensive. What strategies refer to offensive thing? My friend said I was too defensive and too cautious

 

[Sonic Meaper]

Do you have hangout. I have a conversation where skilled players are chatting about ssb4 we can help you there

 

[Ax^2]

Hello there is one thing I don't understand the term. What does pressuring mean? I learned this from my friend who train me. How do you pressure? The only thing I can think of on pressuring is baits mind games hit and step back and punish every options. Please tell me how to pressure so I can practice on it. Another thing is I am more defensive so how do you work on offensive. What strategies refer to offensive thing? My friend said I was too defensive and too cautious

"Pressuring is the act of limiting an opponent's options in order to force them to react. Like baiting, pressuring is used to lure out some sort of punishable action, but the difference is the action is lured out more aggressively and the opponent's habits are not necessarily taken into account."

Smash wiki~

So with sonic, one way you can apply pressure is spin dash cancelling. This will usually force your opponent to do a few things...

1. Put up shield so they dont recieve damage. You can punish this with a grab.
2. Roll in either direction or spot dodge. You can read their choice and punish accordingly.
3. Take to the air, sometimes using an aerial to hit you out of a spindash jump. You can observe whether or not they are wiffing out an attack and hit em with an aerial, like fair.
4. Run towards you to bait you to attack so they can guard and/or punish you. (this can be either very smart or very stupid...) punish this by either attacking first, or blocking their attack and grab.

 

[KeetZ]

http://youtu.be/Nz7EvzHkbRw
Can someone elaborate as to what exactly ol' Joe is doing at 7:16?

 

[Sonic Meaper]

http://youtu.be/Nz7EvzHkbRw
Can someone elaborate as to what exactly ol' Joe is doing at 7:16?

Joe does the running spin roll. The control are run + spin charge you have to make sure your spin charge slide as you run so there's almost no lag when you run into running spin roll.

 

[OpKing93]

Do you have hangout. I have a conversation where skilled players are chatting about ssb4 we can help you there

Yeah, that would be dope! do i give you my gmail for hanout, and also i added you.

 

[OpKing93]

"Pressuring is the act of limiting an opponent's options in order to force them to react. Like baiting, pressuring is used to lure out some sort of punishable action, but the difference is the action is lured out more aggressively and the opponent's habits are not necessarily taken into account."

Smash wiki~

So with sonic, one way you can apply pressure is spin dash cancelling. This will usually force your opponent to do a few things...

1. Put up shield so they dont recieve damage. You can punish this with a grab.
2. Roll in either direction or spot dodge. You can read their choice and punish accordingly.
3. Take to the air, sometimes using an aerial to hit you out of a spindash jump. You can observe whether or not they are wiffing out an attack and hit em with an aerial, like fair.
4. Run towards you to bait you to attack so they can guard and/or punish you. (this can be either very smart or very stupid...) punish this by either attacking first, or blocking their attack and grab.

Oh, so that thing I've been doing is a technique called "pressuring"?...huh, didn't know. Is there any other things that I've been doing or things I need to know about?

 

[Ax^2]

Oh, so that thing I've been doing is a technique called "pressuring"?...huh, didn't know. Is there any other things that I've been doing or things I need to know about?

This could help you...

http://smashboards.com/guides/the-x-r00ki3s-rainbow-road-to-competitive-smash.647/

 

[Sonic Meaper]

Yeah, that would be dope! do i give you my gmail for hanout, and also i added you.

Go here https://plus.google.com/communities/110464579974737145518 and you need hangout app to be added to our conversation so i can add you there

 

[OpKing93]

Go here https://plus.google.com/communities/110464579974737145518 and you need hangout app to be added to our conversation so i can add you there

Omg! Everyone wants to 1v1 there! My Google plus name is MYOBNess, I recently posted

 

[Sonic Meaper]

Omg! Everyone wants to 1v1 there! My Google plus name is MYOBNess, I recently posted

I tried to add you to the conversation but i cant find you when i go to Add people. I type exactly same name MYOBNess...can u download hangout app? I should be able to add you if you do have hangout i think

 

[Ax^2]

I tried to add you to the conversation but i cant find you when i go to Add people. I type exactly same name MYOBNess...can u download hangout app? I should be able to add you if you do have hangout i think

Yo can i join lol

Neep people to fight....

 

[Sonic Meaper]

Yo can i join lol

Neep people to fight....

Go here https://plus.google.com/communities/110464579974737145518 and you probably need hangout app to be added to the conversation

 

[OpKing93]

I need help learning the spin shot. I can do it on the ground, but not in the air to recover, plz help me!

 

[Sonic Meaper]

I need help learning the spin shot. I can do it on the ground, but not in the air to recover, plz help me!

I can help you. Let me know if you need me to show you how

 

[KeetZ]

First time practicing the running spin roll.
Can someone please give me the exact inputs?

 

[Camalange]

Guys, this is not a chat room. We have a matchmaking thread and you can message each other privately. In addition, please stop double posting. Adhere to the rules. I won't be as lenient for back and forth chatter in a thread such as this again.

And we can use Dsmash to anti-ledgesnap there more efficiently.

What's more effective about BF for this?

I need help learning the spin shot. I can do it on the ground, but not in the air to recover, plz help me!

 

[ぱみゅ]

What's more effective about BF for this?

The ledge is way thinner than most, and Dsmash hits pretty far below.
it's not a game-changer, just a niche usage for that stage.

 

[Camalange]

The ledge is way thinner than most, and Dsmash hits pretty far below.
it's not a game-changer, just a niche usage for that stage.

Guess I hadn't really noticed.

Both sides are different though. Does it matter?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Guess I hadn't really noticed.

Both sides are different though. Does it matter?

I would assume yes.
But I can't really lab it out and confirm right now.

 

[HoSmash4]

What are sonic's weaknesses?

 

[Ixisnaugus]

Poor OoS and few options to directly beat or pressure shield are standouts. Bad smashes and modest growth or tilts and throws mean little opportunity to kill opponents early, at least at ground level. A few other things round out Sonic's problems and keep him in check, but you probably won't notice these unless you play as or vs Sonic at least semi-frequently. if you're looking for a quick quotes just go with No OoS, can't kill and can't beat shield.

 

[Mattatari]

What are sonic's weaknesses?

Stopping his momentum/speed. Basically projectiles with hit sun like Mario's fireballs or Falco's lasers.