Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[jaimex2]

Interesting, I've never really though about our weaknesses. What are our better options to overcome them?

OoS = probably short hop > up air
Projectiles = Camp and stall the match, spinshot and do them from behind.
Shield = Well, thats the reason were forced to be a bait and strike character. There's a few shenanigans you can pull occasionally like sliding SD charge > Shield grab or weak spin charge > shield hit > to grab | spring bail out.

Guaranteed kill setups (unique to Sonic), we have none. I don't think any exist.

 

[stickmansam]

I have been thinking about picking up sonic as a secondary to handle some abysmal matchups so I am asking how does sonic do against cloud and mario (mostly cloud). I think his speed and approach game would do good against cloud because my main pac cant do anything against cloud.

 

[Camalange]

You should always be aware of your character's strengths and weaknesses. Turning this weaknesses into strengths or finding ways to cover those weaknesses are just as if not more vital than understand why your character is effective.

 

[Sonic Meaper]

Hello guys I just found two set up but i just wanted to let you guys know so you can experiment it if they're really set up or just fancy thing that only works in training mode. One is up air second hit auto cancel > dair (spike) > side smash or any move. it works at like around 70%-90%. Fox is the best dummy to test this out. Second one is down air > spring > foot stool > up air > spring > up air. It kills at about 90%+. This only works if you use spring on the ground in front of the opponent facing forward. Down air have to send the opponent forward so you can foot stool after you use down air to hit the opponent and spring at the same time. This is really hard to pull off since foot stool work at frame 2-3 which means you'll have to foot stool right after you landed on spring from down air. I think big slow heavy characters are best dummies for this second set up. I don't have capture card so i can't show how to do these two. Ill try to make a replay of it and record it to youtube and post that replay here if i have time.

 

[jaimex2]

You should always be aware of your character's strengths and weaknesses. Turning this weaknesses into strengths or finding ways to cover those weaknesses are just as if not more vital than understand why your character is effective.

For me it's always been about knowing what a bad scenario to be in is and avoiding being cornered into it altogether, which has worked so far..but yes knowing why is half the battle.

Hello guys I just found two set up but i just wanted to let you guys know so you can experiment it if they're really set up or just fancy thing that only works in training mode. One is up air second hit auto cancel > dair (spike) > side smash or any move. it works at like around 70%-90%. Fox is the best dummy to test this out. Second one is down air > spring > foot stool > up air > spring > up air. It kills at about 90%+. This only works if you use spring on the ground in front of the opponent facing forward. Down air have to send the opponent forward so you can foot stool after you use down air to hit the opponent and spring at the same time. This is really hard to pull off since foot stool work at frame 2-3 which means you'll have to foot stool right after you landed on spring from down air. I think big slow heavy characters are best dummies for this second set up. I don't have capture card so i can't show how to do these two. Ill try to make a replay of it and record it to youtube and post that replay here if i have time.

When testing combos in training mode see if you can pull them off with the CPU set to run.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Alright, gonna start off by saying that I came from PM Sonic, love the character and I like how he feels in smash 4. However, the neutral in this game is completely lost on me. Without dash dancing and platform movement, I'm totally lost. How do I play the neutral with Sonic in a way that I can create opening to punish?

 

[dayo]

sonic is a bait and punish character. you have to condition your opponent to play unsafe and then capitalize on their mistakes. i'm not very good, still learning myself but i learned a neat trick last night. start a spindash and then quickly shield, causing the sound for spindash to play. this may cause your opponent to shield and you can run up and grab or do an actual spindash if you're close enough.

 

[Kerfuffle]

See, I'm aware that he's heavy bait and punish, but how do I bait? I'm so used to being able to move back and forth around the stage so fast, but with smash 4 not really having those options, this kind of pressure becomes very difficult to do. I guess my question is more about movement than anything else. How do I move about the stage in a way that allows me to turn on a dime and go in for a punish?

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

Okay I have a few questions

- I realized recently that you can buffer a standing shield grab out of a run instead of a dash grab. Is there any reason why this is a bad idea?

- My brother and I want to form a doubles team. Who's a character that synergizes well with Sonic?

- Someone posted something about sliding spin charges. How do you do that? Also, is there any other Sonic tech that has been discovered since the ISDJ and the Spring warp? I know about spin cancelled grabs and that thing with the spring sending both Sonic and his enemy up at once, but I wonder if there's something else I could practice.

 

[Damandatwin]

See, I'm aware that he's heavy bait and punish, but how do I bait? I'm so used to being able to move back and forth around the stage so fast, but with smash 4 not really having those options, this kind of pressure becomes very difficult to do. I guess my question is more about movement than anything else. How do I move about the stage in a way that allows me to turn on a dime and go in for a punish?

If you are looking for movement options you should look into foxtrotting:

Sonic has a very good one and it is highly underused by most Sonics. Also Camalange has been promising to make a Sonic movement guide for ages but hasn't done it so bother him about that for me.

Regarding sonic's baits, one of his best ones is scaring people into shielding by charging spin dash, cancelling the spin dash with shield and running up and grabbing. It is very hard to react to from fairly close since Sonic is so fast.

Okay I have a few questions

- I realized recently that you can buffer a standing shield grab out of a run instead of a dash grab. Is there any reason why this is a bad idea?

- My brother and I want to form a doubles team. Who's a character that synergizes well with Sonic?

- Someone posted something about sliding spin charges. How do you do that? Also, is there any other Sonic tech that has been discovered since the ISDJ and the Spring warp? I know about spin cancelled grabs and that thing with the spring sending both Sonic and his enemy up at once, but I wonder if there's something else I could practice.

1) I have asked this same question before and Camalange answered it. Here was his response:

In terms of ending lag, it's better. It puts Sonic in a neutral stance so he's technically doing a standing grab instead of a dash grab out of a full run, but I don't know for a fact if it comes out any faster or slower than a traditional dash grab.

I guess I always feel like depending on the distance, that putting in the commands for Side-B > Shield Cancel > Grab would just take me longer to get the punish. It's something I wanted to make myself test more, to be honest. I want to know if it's actually, in all senses, superior to a dash grab.

I think it's also more telegraphed than a dash grab since you would hear the SDSC.

2) Not sure, sorry.

3) It's called a wavebounce. Sonic can wavebounce his grounded side B to make it slide back and then shield. It's potentially useful for spacing but I haven't really seen anyone use it properly so far. Here is a video on it:

It was made specifically about wavebouncing Sheik's needles but the concept is the same. Just do side B instead of neutral B. Unfortunately our version is less useful than Sheik's because Sheik can cancel needles without going into shield by just tapping the shield button, whereas Sonic has to actually shield.

 

[Camalange]

how many times are we going to rebrand dash dance pivoting holy ****

 

[<Chewy>]

Any tips with sonic on how to deal with zoning characters like Corrin/Marth/Lucina?
Any tips with sonic on how to deal with campers? Campers are Sonic's worst matchup and I was wondering if there any tips out there.

 

[RIP_Lucas]

I just lost my second tournament in a row to Bayonetta, anyone have some good Sonic vs Bayonetta videos I could watch just to become more familiar with the match up?

 

[jaimex2]

Standing shield grab is better than dash grab for Sonic, Fox and Ganon. You should be doing it where relevant.

1. It's 1 frame faster ( counting frames shield takes to come up)
2. Ending animation leaves you less open.

Regarding zoning characters and campers, be patient. Don't go in until you see your opening, even if it means dragging the game to time. Either stay just out of range, running out and back if they engage or try and get behind them ( run past if they jump ) and go in from there... Basically out camp the campers.

Same thing with Bayoneta except after 60% switch to strictly grabbing only. If you get a stock lead just run away the entire match and punish any failed combo starters.

 

[RIP_Lucas]

I know the general strategy (though I personally have always played much more aggressively, timeouts are stupid). I was just hoping to watch some videos to help get a better idea on what the timing and range on her moves are so I can better punish them

Any tips with sonic on how to deal with zoning characters like Corrin/Marth/Lucina?
Any tips with sonic on how to deal with campers? Campers are Sonic's worst matchup and I was wondering if there any tips out there.

The key is to bait punishable attacks.

Dash into shield cancelled spin dash lets you slide in and hopefully shield grab, and since none of them have great throws, the risk is minimal. If the start catching on, you can easily mix it up by rolling, just don't get predictable.

Make sure you can spring jump after spin dash instead of up air or Nair as it's much harder to punish if they shield it.

The rest is mostly just playing the player, not the character. Every player has habits on how they edge guard, how they react to baits, and how they respond to approaches. Learn them, find the weakness, and exploit

 

[Chaos Mk.VII]

Something that I think would be helpful is to do Spindash > footstool to see how your opponent reacts. You can see what get-up option your opponent likes to take, and then read them after a D-throw or something.

 

[InfamousRush]

A quick question, has anyone experimented with Bidou with Sonic? I have skimmed through a couple threads and found nothing really on it.

Here is a link to My Smash Corner's version of Bidou and his video contains the orginal tech found by a Japanese player.

https://youtu.be/mH528Pdh1Rk

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[jaimex2]

Its still early, the main issue for Sonic will be trading easy spinshots for Bidou gimmicks.

 

[InfamousRush]

Its still early, the main issue for Sonic will be trading easy spinshots for Bidou gimmicks.

Thanks for your input! I was wondering how Sonic might benfit from this technique at all. Since he is a bait and punish character, I thought he might be able to more easily bait the opponents (although it really comes down to the skill of each player). Perhaps he may be able to punish more effectively and consistently.

 

[HoSmash4]

I have several questions:

1. Does spinshot combo into anything?
2. What options can sonic not use without a double jump? Or vice versa, what options that sonic uses, uses up his double jump?
3. What moves does Sonic have that are safe on shield? (Or at very least -10 so cant be optimally punished)
4. What does ISDJ combo into
5. How many frames of invicibility does spin dash and spin charge have?
6. What the difference caused by the amount spin dash/charge is charged? Is there anything else than more speed and damage? Are new combos opened up by increased amount of charging?
7. What type of approaches do I have in neutral?
8. What are my go to combos off spin dash, spin charge?
9. What setups do I have for uair off the top kills?

 

[Chaos Mk.VII]

6. What the difference caused by the amount spin dash/charge is charged? Is there anything else than more speed and damage? Are new combos opened up by increased amount of charging?

Not really, although I have found that sometimes if you charge it up too much, getting a Spindash > U-air is slightly more difficult, especially on smaller characters. I recommend using low charge Spin Charge at close range more often for combos.

8. What are my go to combos off spin dash, spin charge?

Usually, you should go for U-air most often, since it has the most follow-ups. At higher percentages, use N-air for killing, but U-air can still work to kill off the top when followed by a Spring Jump > U-air. Try to NOT use N-air at low percents because of the very low base knockback making it punishable.

9. What setups do I have for uair off the top kills?

My previously mentioned combo (Spin Charge > U-air > U-air > Spring Jump > U-air) can kill off the top. I guess Up Throw, falling N-air, and maybe U-tilt could also work (idk, I play on the 3DS, and the blast zones are larger than on the Wii U). None of these can true combo, however.

I hope I was helpful! Sorry I could only answer the easy ones, though...

 

[RIP_Lucas]

I have several questions:

1. Does spinshot combo into anything?
2. What options can sonic not use without a double jump? Or vice versa, what options that sonic uses, uses up his double jump?
3. What moves does Sonic have that are safe on shield? (Or at very least -10 so cant be optimally punished)
4. What does ISDJ combo into
5. How many frames of invicibility does spin dash and spin charge have?
6. What the difference caused by the amount spin dash/charge is charged? Is there anything else than more speed and damage? Are new combos opened up by increased amount of charging?
7. What type of approaches do I have in neutral?
8. What are my go to combos off spin dash, spin charge?
9. What setups do I have for uair off the top kills?

1. Combo? Not really
2. Spinshot and following up on aerial spin dash/charge require and consume your double jump. You also cannot jump after using your up b (sounds obvious, but can be annoying after up throw combos), so be careful
3. Spin Dash/Charge into Spring Jump can't be immediately punished, but you end up in the air with no jump. F Smash properly spaced can be safe (though someone else will have to confirm that's true for all characters), and a falling Nair can be difficult for people to punish, though it's not perfectly safe
4. Same stuff as spin dash (aerials, usually up air which can sometimes combo into spring jump up air for kills)
5. Can't help there, sorry
6. Generally speaking, aerial follow ups work about the same at all percents and all degrees of charge. It's worth noting though that charging too much can throw off your jump timing, thereby making certain aerials not connect as well
7. None of Sonic's attacks are reliable approach options if your opponent sees them coming, so you need to keep them guessing. Spin dash is probably the most useful because of how you can cancel it with shield, and the way they counter spin dash and shield are completely different. That's only if you are truly in neutral though and need to get in, usually your best bet will be to keep moving until they make a move you can punish.
8. Chaos covered this perfectly, do what he said
9. Stages like duck hunt, Halberd, and battlefield have platforms your can combo up throw into spring jump up air around 50-60% to kill off the top, but nobody in their right mind would let sonic grab them on those platforms. At very specific percents up air will combo into itself or a spring jump up air that can kill if you're high enough. Otherwise, up air kills usually require an air dodge (or lack of air dodge) read.

 

[PeliPenguin]

I have several questions:

1. Does spinshot combo into anything?
2. What options can sonic not use without a double jump? Or vice versa, what options that sonic uses, uses up his double jump?
3. What moves does Sonic have that are safe on shield? (Or at very least -10 so cant be optimally punished)
4. What does ISDJ combo into
5. How many frames of invicibility does spin dash and spin charge have?
6. What the difference caused by the amount spin dash/charge is charged? Is there anything else than more speed and damage? Are new combos opened up by increased amount of charging?
7. What type of approaches do I have in neutral?
8. What are my go to combos off spin dash, spin charge?
9. What setups do I have for uair off the top kills?

1. Spinshot isn't an attack, and doesn't extend any combos so no. If you use it to mix them up you can create openings but there is nothing guaranteed.

2. Without a double jump you can't jump out of a spin dash or spin charge in the air, even if you land in the middle of the move. There's also BSBS, which you should check the guide for. It can get complex, but if you're worried about getting screwed over by it just jumping normally will make it go away.

3. Well spaced dtilt, ftilt and fsmash are somewhat safe. You might be able to cross up someone with nair and get away with it because of Sonic's mobility. Sonic is isn't really like Sheik in the sense that he wants to space moves, you're better off weaving in and out of your opponents range.

4. Pretty much anything you normally get off a spin dash.

5. Spin charge as no invincibility. Spin dash has a bit on the hop, which can be used to beat out a few projectiles like Mario's fireballs and counter attack.

6. The spin dash gets faster and stronger whilst I'm pretty sure spin charge just gets faster, in fact a slower spin charge allows you to get more multi hits in for more damage, so if you want an optimal spin combo a slow spin charge is the way to go.

7. Approaching is one of Sonic's weaker areas. As a bait and punish character he relies on your opponent leaving an opening for you to run in and punish. Cross uair and nair are ok but pale in comparison to something like a ZSS bair. In neutral your aim is to work out how the opponent reacts to the spin dash, then punish them accordingly e.g the opponent keeps shielding SD, so you SDSC and run in for a grab.

8. If you want an effective simple way of getting damage SD>SDJ>Nair is pretty good. You literally mash the A button when you hit with the SD and get about 22%. The most optimal spin dash combo is a slow SC>SDJ>Uair>Bair, but this only works on big characters or fastfallers at around low to mid%. A slightly easier variant is slow SC>SDJ>Uair>Nair which works on all but the floatiest of characters at low%, but the timing after the uair is strict.

SD>SDJ>Uair>Upb>Uair only true combos fastfallers, but if they airdodge immediately you can dair them. It can kill but it largely depends on stage selection, rage and staleness so you don't see it often.

There is some more complex stuff but these are effective bnbs.

9. SHFF uair>upb>uair is a true combo on the entire cast that can kill around 120% on average. Uthrow>upb>uair is a true combo that only kills if they're on a platform at around 50% (depends on stage selection). Its not a legit 50/50 since they should always jump away instead of airdodging. And there is also spring ride which isn't true but will kill if the opponent gets confused.

 

[Loki0830]

Hey guys! How do you guys generally deal with opponents who tend to challenge your approaches with fast/safe attacks such as jabs, tilts, or projectiles? Sonic's gameplay is based on punishing his opponent when he makes a mistake or opening, and he utilizes his speed and mixups out of spindash to force the opponent to react. I got that much.

Normally, inexperienced opponents tend to opt for defensive options, such as camping in shield or jumping off the ground. But, more experienced opponents, I've noticed, tend to go for offensive options to try and zone me out or stop/clank my spindash, and punish me then. I figure shield beats out attacks, so I run in and shield expecting to punish them off their attacks, but it almost never works for me. I'm the one who ends up getting grabbed and punished, which makes it hard for me, literally and mentally, to approach my opponent.

How do you guys get around that? If you want to see my play, I just posted some matches I did recently in the video critique section, although they don't illustrate what I'm talking about here.

Thanks!

 

[jaimex2]

How do you guys get around that? If you want to see my play, I just posted some matches I did recently in the video critique section, although they don't illustrate what I'm talking about here.

Few mixups in our bag of tricks off the top of my head.

Short hoping /air dodging over them > SD from behind or bair. shield stun makes it safe if it hits shiwlds.
SD charge > Spinshot > SD from behind
Running at them > Short hop bair > grab from behind
DDP just out of range, they will usually do something dumb.
Run in Cancelled SD > Grab
Short Hop > Uair > Land in jab range on auto cancel frames and jab away.

Timing is harder but even quick jabs and tilts have their openings.
Also keep in mind SC can get through jabs where SD don't (sometimes) Charge time also matters on whether to clank or bust through.

 

[Stylin']

(I made a thread on this but it got closed so I'm putting it here. It's fairly lengthy and opinionated).

As a new Sonic main, I'm finding for glory a real pain in the butt. I'm trying to improve my skill and learn as I go, but so many people I face on for glory will just decide to give up and stop moving mid-match, only recovering if needs be. And others will outright SD on me if I take a stock off them. I can only assume it's because I'm playing sonic, as this kind of thing rarely ever happens, but playing this character has made me notice it more and more and it's just not right. Refusing to play because you have something against a character or player is just wrong, and is the kind of thing this kind of community should see as unacceptable.

One of my other friends who also used to main Sonic noticed that people often SD'd if he was dominating the neutral with spin dash, and I've seen the same sort of thing. Of course, this is understandable, as Sonic is an annoying character to face and often regarded as 'campy', which is epitomised by spin dash spam. I'm not a spin dash spammer, but as a Sonic main, I will use it as often as possible if you give me the opportunity to, as it is one of his best moves. If you want to stop it, then find a way around it. Force me to approach another way, spam projectiles, or just jab.

Of course, I could be getting this all wrong, and sheer dumb luck is causing people to SD on purpose, but the signs are just all too real. Do any of you Sonic mains have a similar issue? How do you deal with it? What do you think we should do about it? What effect will this have on current Sonic mains and ones considering maining him? (Will it put people off?) Is this another example of why for glory needs fixing? (Match making anyone?) Please leave your opinions, positive or negative, as I would love to read your thoughts on an issue that is holding back my (and probably other people's) progress with the character, as it holts the flow of games, and my growth of player knowledge and matchups. And to top it all off, it creates a more toxic community and puts a bad image on Sonic mains and the character.

 

[jaimex2]

People that do this have nothing to teach you and are doing you a favour by leaving.

Go on Anther's ladder or another matching community instead of FG if you can't play offline.

http://qldsmash.com is good if you are is Australia.

 

[Stylin']

People that do this have nothing to teach you and are doing you a favour by leaving.

Go on Anther's ladder or another matching community instead of FG if you can't play offline.

http://qldsmash.com is good if you are is Australia.

Yea I guess. It's just annoying because some of them were quite good. I've wanted to check out Anthers Ladder but have been too worried about my ability. Is it friendly?

 

[PeliPenguin]

Anthers ladder is infinitely better than For Glory. If you continue to play FG you're pretty much lowering your skill ceiling, since most of them lose to spin dash alone.

Anthers is 95% friendly, but the actual ranking system completely ****s on FG. Most people are willing to give advice on your play and you get to search for specific MUs you struggle in. If you can't go to actual tournaments than Anthers or any other match making site is definitely the next best thing.

 

[Stylin']

Anthers ladder is infinitely better than For Glory. If you continue to play FG you're pretty much lowering your skill ceiling, since most of them lose to spin dash alone.

Anthers is 95% friendly, but the actual ranking system completely ****s on FG. Most people are willing to give advice on your play and you get to search for specific MUs you struggle in. If you can't go to actual tournaments than Anthers or any other match making site is definitely the next best thing.

Thanks for the advice. Will definitely try it out. Only one way to get better I guess

 

[Exegguter]

Hey guys,

I'm having a huge problen against Olimars. I can't get in; the Pikmins hurt my movement too much.

Any general tips in this matchup/ vids that could help?

Thanks

 

[dayo]

how do you guys feel about bidou controls with sonic? i tried it out, we lose spinshot (still doable but much harder) but ISDJ feels easier to do with the triggers. also our god like perfect pivot is much easier to do.

 

[Chaos Mk.VII]

Hey I have a question: How do you do a running Up Smash and keep enough momentum so that the hitbox still moves forward slightly? I can do this easily, but it only happens sometimes. Other times, it just halts all momentum when the hitbox comes out. Please help I have no idea why this happens. I would also like to know if Sonic benefits from Bidou much as well.

 

[jaimex2]

Need to be in running animation when you do the up-smash.

 

[Chaos Mk.VII]

Need to be in running animation when you do the up-smash.

Yeah that's what I do, but what happens is that Sonic sometimes slides when he charges the attack, but the momentum is halted completely when he hops up to do the attack. When it works, Sonic retains momentum even during the hitbox frames. Something that I noticed recently is that I have only been able to do it on SOME stages, on others it never works. I don't know if I'm crazy or if it's a 3ds exclusive tech or something else. Can someone please explain?

 

[Damandatwin]

how do you guys feel about bidou controls with sonic? i tried it out, we lose spinshot (still doable but much harder) but ISDJ feels easier to do with the triggers. also our god like perfect pivot is much easier to do.

losing spinshot is too big of a cost imo

 

[Espy Rose]

You don't lose spinshot.

 

[Stylin']

Hey guys,

I'm having a huge problen against Olimars. I can't get in; the Pikmins hurt my movement too much.

Any general tips in this matchup/ vids that could help?

Thanks

If you go to Sonic and the book of matchups in the sonic discussion boards then scroll down to Olimar and Alph, there is a link in the spoiler which will take you to a matchup discussion of the two characters. The main thing I took from it is that down b is your friend, as it just eats through Pikmin. It's from the perspective of an Olimar player, so will give you an idea of what is going on in your opponents head. It seems your main tactic should be getting in as soon as possible, and using Olimar's light weight to rack up damage fast for early kills. Because of this, you should be relying on down b combos and use of spring to get out of sticky situations and into good ones, through the use of dairs onto a grounded spring to maybe catch him out. Don't rely on it, though. Something to take from all this is that Olimar's Pikmin have an arching flight path, meaning going over or running under though fast speed and timing are your best options for avoiding them. Lab with Olimar a bit to test the flight paths of each Pikmin, as they are different based on the colour. In a similar way to Rosalina and Luma, when you get past the issue of Pikmin, he really isn't a threat, so make sure you get in on him fast to remove that threat in the same way you would kill Luma to remove her threat. And lastly, remember that each Pikmin serves a different purpose, and keep note of this during the game based on the next one to come out. It will help you to predict what your opponent might do next. By losing sight of the order of his Pikmin, you are not staying on the same level as him, as your opponent will be thinking about the order for most of the match. You'll have to research the different properties of the Pikmin yourself, but notable ones are that Purples have high knockback, being used for smash attacks and earlier kills, and the blue ones increase the knockback of his throws, allowing for some good late kill options. If it's any other Pikmin, then it would give you a chance to get in on him, as he is most likely going to throw them at you. Remember though that they may stop some of your moves or put you in hit stun if you attack one, so time your attacks wisely and go for ones which avoid or beat Pikmin altogether. I'd also advise learning what order Pikmin get pulled out, as I believe it is always the same for this game. This will ensure you know when you can run in safely without worrying about blues/purples.

This is all I can say really. He's an annoying character, so it's crucial to understand him as well as you understand yourself. I tried to get as much in as I could, (it's a bit unorganised) so if you know a lot of this already then that's O.K.

Hope I am of assistance!

 

[Exegguter]

If you go to Sonic and the book of matchups in the sonic discussion boards then scroll down to Olimar and Alph, there is a link in the spoiler which will take you to a matchup discussion of the two characters. The main thing I took from it is that down b is your friend, as it just eats through Pikmin. It's from the perspective of an Olimar player, so will give you an idea of what is going on in your opponents head. It seems your main tactic should be getting in as soon as possible, and using Olimar's light weight to rack up damage fast for early kills. Because of this, you should be relying on down b combos and use of spring to get out of sticky situations and into good ones, through the use of dairs onto a grounded spring to maybe catch him out. Don't rely on it, though. Something to take from all this is that Olimar's Pikmin have an arching flight path, meaning going over or running under though fast speed and timing are your best options for avoiding them. Lab with Olimar a bit to test the flight paths of each Pikmin, as they are different based on the colour. In a similar way to Rosalina and Luma, when you get past the issue of Pikmin, he really isn't a threat, so make sure you get in on him fast to remove that threat in the same way you would kill Luma to remove her threat. And lastly, remember that each Pikmin serves a different purpose, and keep note of this during the game based on the next one to come out. It will help you to predict what your opponent might do next. By losing sight of the order of his Pikmin, you are not staying on the same level as him, as your opponent will be thinking about the order for most of the match. You'll have to research the different properties of the Pikmin yourself, but notable ones are that Purples have high knockback, being used for smash attacks and earlier kills, and the blue ones increase the knockback of his throws, allowing for some good late kill options. If it's any other Pikmin, then it would give you a chance to get in on him, as he is most likely going to throw them at you. Remember though that they may stop some of your moves or put you in hit stun if you attack one, so time your attacks wisely and go for ones which avoid or beat Pikmin altogether. I'd also advise learning what order Pikmin get pulled out, as I believe it is always the same for this game. This will ensure you know when you can run in safely without worrying about blues/purples.

This is all I can say really. He's an annoying character, so it's crucial to understand him as well as you understand yourself. I tried to get as much in as I could, (it's a bit unorganised) so if you know a lot of this already then that's O.K.

Hope I am of assistance!

You are. Thanks! :D

 

[Stylin']

You are. Thanks! :D

Ahhh well that's good to know :D