Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[EyexSore]

I don't really consider Sonic's approaches garbage, but it feels like Sonic is always either punishing his opponent or avoiding being punished. You're either escaping or capitalizing on their mistake. Well, that can be said for most Sonics. Aggressive play is definitely viable if you don't spin to win, and you can always just tomahawk as a bait and then SC combo them.

Question, is spin to win considered a cheap strategy? Cuz I feel like that's what I do.

 

[VKatana]

Question, is spin to win considered a cheap strategy? Cuz I feel like that's what I do.

I mean, I guess if it works and the other person isn't punishing it properly, then you're technically outplaying them... you're definitely gonna take a lot of flack for it though. I know it sounds grimy, but just do what works no matter what other people think. Seal that win. If you achieve victory via 'spin to win' then go ahead, I guess. It's definitely punishable by your opponent though.

 

[EyexSore]

you're definitely gonna take a lot of flack for it though.

The way I see it, it's your own fault for not punishing properly if it's easy to punish.

 

[VKatana]

The way I see it, it's your own fault for not punishing properly if it's easy to punish.

Regardless, people still get salty about Sonic players succeeding with spin to win. If they can't punish it, then they are absolutely getting outplayed, but people will still whine and be very salty. Just brace yourself for that if you ever play on stream and read the Twitch chat or something like that. Tune out the haters, dude

 

[EyexSore]

Regardless, people still get salty about Sonic players succeeding with spin to win. If they can't punish it, then they are absolutely getting outplayed, but people will still whine and be very salty. Just brace yourself for that if you ever play on stream and read the Twitch chat or something like that. Tune out the haters, dude

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

 

[Camalange]

My friend wants me to ask if spin shot was taken out in the 1.0.6 patch as he can no longer do it. I told him it would be in the notes, but he doesn't believe me.

Down-B works exactly as it did before.

Side-B can still be done with Jump or Attack, but not with C-Stick unless you switch Smash to Attack.

What are Sonic's best options out of shield? I feel like up smash, jab, nair, uair, ftilt and homing attack could be good attacks out of shield but I'm not sure really.

Depends on the situation.

Uair, Fair, Nair are good enough anti-airs depending on their positioning. Utilt is more of a commitment and worse range so probably not. On the ground, Ftilt or just grab if in range. That's about it.

Never HA OoS though... No.

Also,why do you guys consider his approaches bad?

I don't really consider Sonic's approaches garbage, but it feels like Sonic is always either punishing his opponent or avoiding being punished. You're either escaping or capitalizing on their mistake.

Well, that's why his approaches are bad.

If your approach options are "Try to make my opponent mess up" or "Rely on my opponent making a mistake" then guess what? Your approach is ****.

A good approach option would be approaches that your opponent is forced to respect... Things that put you in a positive situation. We don't really have anything that safe or reliable. Characters like Sheik have amazing approaches because she can just Fair your shield with no lag, safe spacing, and is in a positive situation every time on your shield unless she whiffs or messes up spacing. She hits your shield, you try to grab OoS and miss, she can punish with another Fair. If you stay in shield, she can land and grab you out of it. That is an incredibly ideal approach because it creates situations where she wins.

Sonic can sort of do this, but his are based nearly completely off of reactions, so with proper conditioning, Sonic has the tools to effectively open up your opponent, but inherently, his approaches themselves are bad because they're not safe or frame advantageous. They're only seemingly good because they're kind of annoying and aren't as much of a commitment as some characters. At the end of the day though, the strongest thing about his approach is that it can be manipulate, but as a typical approach, they are bad.

Question, is spin to win considered a cheap strategy? Cuz I feel like that's what I do.

The way I see it, it's your own fault for not punishing properly if it's easy to punish.

You answered your own question.

"Spin to win" is garbage. If anyone is falling for it, then they're bad. End of story. Not your fault for abusing it on someone. Why stop doing it if it works?

Against any player with half a brain in the match-up would body you if you spin to win, because it simply does not work for a multitude of reasons.

 

[EyexSore]

You answered your own question.

In my defense, I didn't realize it was easy to punish until I got my question answered.

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

Down-B works exactly as it did before.

Side-B can still be done with Jump or Attack, but not with C-Stick unless you switch Smash to Attack.

Depends on the situation.

Uair, Fair, Nair are good enough anti-airs depending on their positioning. Utilt is more of a commitment and worse range so probably not. On the ground, Ftilt or just grab if in range. That's about it.

Never HA OoS though... No.



Well, that's why his approaches are bad.

If your approach options are "Try to make my opponent mess up" or "Rely on my opponent making a mistake" then guess what? Your approach is ****.

A good approach option would be approaches that your opponent is forced to respect... Things that put you in a positive situation. We don't really have anything that safe or reliable. Characters like Sheik have amazing approaches because she can just Fair your shield with no lag, safe spacing, and is in a positive situation every time on your shield unless she whiffs or messes up spacing. She hits your shield, you try to grab OoS and miss, she can punish with another Fair. If you stay in shield, she can land and grab you out of it. That is an incredibly ideal approach because it creates situations where she wins.

Sonic can sort of do this, but his are based nearly completely off of reactions, so with proper conditioning, Sonic has the tools to effectively open up your opponent, but inherently, his approaches themselves are bad because they're not safe or frame advantageous. They're only seemingly good because they're kind of annoying and aren't as much of a commitment as some characters. At the end of the day though, the strongest thing about his approach is that it can be manipulate, but as a typical approach, they are bad.


You answered your own question.

"Spin to win" is garbage. If anyone is falling for it, then they're bad. End of story. Not your fault for abusing it on someone. Why stop doing it if it works?

Against any player with half a brain in the match-up would body you if you spin to win, because it simply does not work for a multitude of reasons.

Would jab out of shield be a good option out of shield? It's fast and could maybe set up for other things.

Why couldn't you approach with walking up to them and ftilt? Sonic has a fast walk and ftilt has lots of range and low lag. Or a pivot ftilt could work as well I guess.

Also please post how the spin to win stuff doesn't work on the subreddit if it isn't too much for you. I'm sick of debating with salty for glory scrubs (although I'm a scrub) about how counterable spin2win is. Maybe you could convince them otherwise.

 

[Camalange]

In my defense, I didn't realize it was easy to punish until I got my question answered.

No need to defend, you just ended up answering the question yourself, lol.

Would jab out of shield be a good option out of shield? It's fast and could maybe set up for other things.

Jab is pretty much the safest, easiest punish if you want to risk nothing. So yeah, jab can be good.

Why couldn't you approach with walking up to them and ftilt? Sonic has a fast walk and ftilt has lots of range and low lag. Or a pivot ftilt could work as well I guess.

Good for spacing but it's not amazing. More for footsies as opposed to an actual approach.

Also please post how the spin to win stuff doesn't work on the subreddit if it isn't too much for you. I'm sick of debating with salty for glory scrubs (although I'm a scrub) about how counterable spin2win is. Maybe you could convince them otherwise.

Reddit really pains me, but I'll think about it.

They probably will learn nothing regardless.

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

No need to defend, you just ended up answering the question yourself, lol.

Jab is pretty much the safest, easiest punish if you want to risk nothing. So yeah, jab can be good.

Good for spacing but it's not amazing. More for footsies as opposed to an actual approach.

Reddit really pains me, but I'll think about it.

They probably will learn nothing regardless.

Is up smash good out of shield? I don't think there's much startup uncharged, there's invincibility in the beginning, and it can kill.

More of a general smash question but what is the difference between footsies/neutral and approaching. I understand neutral and what a good neutral game is, but I don't feel like I understand approaches as well since apparently there's a difference. Is approaching trying to get in to commit to gaining control while neutral is just no advantage and people are throwing out quick hitboxes?

Reddit is even scrubbier and saltier than the facebook Smash 4 group. They whine and ***** about Sonic being too boring and reliant on spin dashes, yet are oblivious to Sonic players like 6wx who are really fun to watch.

 

[EyexSore]

Reddit is even scrubbier and saltier than the facebook Smash 4 group. They whine and ***** about Sonic being too boring and reliant on spin dashes, yet are oblivious to Sonic players like 6wx who are really fun to watch.

Sonic is amazing if only because everyone has a different playstyle for him that will work. Some people are just slow on the uptake.

 

[VKatana]

6WX is coming to Miami may 16th to get sponsored for EVO. This is going to be hype. We might get Manny vs. 6WX.
Also good god, am I sick of seeing people cry about Sonic because they don't understand how to fight him. That being said, I have so much trouble against Sonic as other chars LOL, I always go the ditto.

 

[New Age Retro Hippie]

Yeah I read that on FB. So hype! I dunno if the guys here are gonna make the trip but if they do I'm coming along for sure. 6WX is my personal Sonic jesus.

 

[Earthboundy]

What is Sonic's worst match up?

 

[EyexSore]

What is Sonic's worst match up?

Most people say Ness. So I can see you're in luck.

 

[Espy Rose]

Ness/Fox/Sheik are all ass.

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

Weren't you guys saying earlier that Sonic's worst matchups were Zero Suit Samus, Yoshi, and Fox?

 

[Earthboundy]

Most people say Ness. So I can see you're in luck.

http://smashboards.com/threads/worst-matchup.394560/#post-19098433 Um...

 

[EyexSore]

http://smashboards.com/threads/worst-matchup.394560/#post-19098433 Um...

Ness v. Sonic is awkward. It's generally not good for anybody.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I find sonic vs ness to be pretty easy. We can harass him pretty hard offstage and while he can do the same. We benefit from it more. That and i would say we overall have an easier time getting in his face.

 

[Camalange]

http://smashboards.com/threads/worst-matchup.394560/#post-19098433 Um...

The amount of character boards who think Sonic is their worst match-up is simply adorable.

 

[VKatana]

I've always had a pretty easy time against Ness, but I've only played Ness' at my local tournaments so I'm not gonna say too much on the MU, but I definitely think it's 65/35 Sonic's favor or something like that, just based on my own experience. As far as Sonic's worst MU goes.... I'm gonna give that one to Fox or ZSS. I feel like he can go even with Yoshi, or 60/40 Yoshi's favor.

 

[New Age Retro Hippie]

I feel like a competent ZSS is Sonic's worst matchup unequivocally.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Ness is not hard lol. Just stop getting hit by PK Fires you scrubs. That's the only way you'll get grabbed, therefore the only way you'll die. If you're chasing him through the air after a uthrow or whatever you're asking to get uaired to death and you'd deserve it.

 

[Espy Rose]

Someone's been playing a little too much For Glory.

 

[smashbro29]

Any tips for the Mac matchup? I can't get close with anything but side b because otherwise he just out prioritizes me big time.

 

[EyexSore]

Any tips for the Mac matchup? I can't get close with anything but side b because otherwise he just out prioritizes me big time.

Personally, I focus on dodging on the ground by jumping, and then punish when he thinks he can read where I'll land. Another idea is to build him up and then throw him over the edge over. And over. And over. He'll mess up eventually.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Someone's been playing a little too much For Glory.

Lol maybe. Can't see how Ness can reliably KO Sonic though.

 

[Mew2Kid]

Hey, sorry if this is already a thread, but is it me or does Sonic's dash attack seem to have more endlag? Like, I haven't played Sonic in forever and just recently got him from a Random pick, and the endlag seems a lot more to me. Did anyone else see this or am I just going too S@N1C 5P33D?

 

[EyexSore]

Hey, sorry if this is already a thread, but is it me or does Sonic's dash attack seem to have more endlag? Like, I haven't played Sonic in forever and just recently got him from a Random pick, and the endlag seems a lot more to me. Did anyone else see this or am I just going too S@N1C 5P33D?

In terms of from brawl or from a recent update.

 

[Mew2Kid]

In terms of from brawl or from a recent update.

I'm talking Smash 4, so recent updates.

 

[smashbro29]

Personally, I focus on dodging on the ground by jumping, and then punish when he thinks he can read where I'll land. Another idea is to build him up and then throw him over the edge over. And over. And over. He'll mess up eventually.

What do I do on FD? I'm just screwed. He'll always beat me out. Just has to throw out almost any of his moves. Grabbing him is also a huge ordeal because if I get behind him it's down smash time.

 

[EyexSore]

I'm talking Smash 4, so recent updates.

I haven't noticed any increased endlag. It may be just because it's been a while.

What do I do on FD? I'm just screwed. He'll always beat me out. Just has to throw out almost any of his moves. Grabbing him is also a huge ordeal because if I get behind him it's down smash time.

This depends on how your opponent is acting. If this is one person you're talking about, does the person follow a pattern? Mac patterns are so easy to punish it's almost hilarious.

 

[Mew2Kid]

I haven't noticed any increased endlag. It may be just because it's been a while.

Huh, so I guess it is just me. Thanks for replying.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

PK fire to grab? More like PK fire to Spring.

 

[EyexSore]

PK fire to grab? More like PK fire to Spring.

*Boing intensifies*

 

[ROOOOY!]

Think everybody's missed my point. I know Ness isn't going to grab you out of a Pk fire. My point is he's not gonna grab you at all. And you're stupid if you don't stay grounded as much as you can against ness, his bair/uair is punishable if they whiff them or you shield them. Which leaves him what to kill? Yoyo or bat, yoyo doesn't kill til mid to late hundreds % wise and bat is about as telegraphed as me getting flamed for this post lol. I know he can jank with us offstage, but I feel Sonic has the better of the offstage game anyway.

 

[Espy Rose]

Yeah, way too much For Glory.

 

[smashbro29]

This depends on how your opponent is acting. If this is one person you're talking about, does the person follow a pattern? Mac patterns are so easy to punish it's almost hilarious.

I'll try and get you a video of it.

 

[Lukingordex]

The amount of character boards who think Sonic is their worst match-up is simply adorable.

Well idk about the other characters but Sonic is definitely Ness' hardest match up.