Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Camalange]

To be fair, Sonic kinda bops Marth/Lucina imho.

 

[EyexSore]

To be fair, Sonic kinda bops Marth/Lucina imho.

lmao I didn't even see him say that until you mentioned that.

 

[Camalange]

lmao I didn't even see him say that until you mentioned that.

I started to skim your post and realized you were giving advice in the ditto, lol.

 

[EyexSore]

I started to skim your post and realized you were giving advice in the ditto, lol.

Added some actually relevant advice to my post now, god, I need to pay attention.

 

[Locuan]

To be fair, Sonic kinda bops Marth/Lucina imho.

Yep pretty much. My match against @ Espy Rose at SAM showed me how difficult the match-up is for Marth. Of course, Espy is way better than me too but I could objectively see how Sonic could abuse Marth's weaknesses really well.

 

[Camalange]

Yep pretty much. My match against @ Espy Rose at SAM showed me how difficult the match-up is for Marth. Of course, Espy is way better than me too but I could objectively see how Sonic could abuse Marth's weaknesses really well.

I always thought Sonic beat Marth or at least went even with him in Brawl.

Now, it's not even a question with their respective buffs and nerfs.

 

[Locuan]

I always thought Sonic beat Marth or at least went even with him in Brawl.

Now, it's not even a question with their respective buffs and nerfs.

Definitely. It's still fun though, but like most of the other match-ups for Marth/Luci in Smash 4, it is an uphill struggle.

 

[Camalange]

Hey guys, I got a few suggestions to make one so... I did!

http://ask.fm/Camalange

If you ever wanted to ask me questions about Smash, Sonic, or whatever else but are too shy to post here, then here's an anonymous way to get direct answers from me.

 

[VKatana]

I really wish I could help but I can't think of anything to tell you. I sat about for a good 2 hours, trying to find footage of things that might help, trying to analyze the MU based off replays, and... I just can't imagine how Marth or Lucina could beat a solid Sonic. It seems like the character just doesn't have the tools/frame data to do it. Sonic just seems to wipe the floor with Marth/Lucina.
My deepest condolences. Hopefully this can help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfXfpU1OX7c
Good luck out there, man. Generally speaking, if your opponent doesn't use mix ups often enough, you can begin predicting their 'spindash cycle' which is basically what they do when they land spindash or what they do when their spindash hits your shield. I've got what all of Sonic's potential mix up options in that situation are in my notes here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FljY6iKnZOZuix1ODgs9K7M64q9I8MfvccrICVEvgfk/edit?usp=sharing
Sorry the notes are kind of limited, I just started writing them. Also if any Sonic experts out there were willing to take the time to read my notes and talk with me on them, that'd be fantastically kind of you.

 

[Camalange]

There also aren't a lot of Marths or Lucinas out there going against Sonic so... Hard to cite anything otherwise.

I don't know if Sonic mops the floor up, but he definitely wins it.

 

[kj22]

There also aren't a lot of Marths or Lucinas out there going against Sonic so... Hard to cite anything otherwise.

I don't know if Sonic mops the floor up, but he definitely wins it.

I like the Marth vs Sonic mu. I wanna play @ Espy Rose at TGC2 in friendlies if he's down, get some matches up if we can, showcase the mu, show its not *as bad* as people think.

Oc I have a tonnn of brawl sonic mu exp, so that would help, but then again Espy has a lot of brawl marth exp

Heya.

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here seems the most appropriate.

The only matchup I have any sort of trouble with whatsoever is Sonic.

Of all the Sonic's I've played, all of them play almost identical. Some differences, generally. Despite this, I have a lot of trouble with the matchup.

Do you guys have any tips on overcoming the Sonic matchup? (I play Marth and Lucina, depending on the matchup. Sonic is the only character where I haven't decided whether or not to use Marth or Lucina.)

For example, when Sonic does dair at a height where you receive no landing lag, reacting to and reading what the player will do is extremely difficult for me.

Obviously, dealing with Sonic's spindash and his ridiculous combos is difficult as well.

The thing that's hardest about dealing with Sonic is his sheer speed. You whiff one move, and you get punished. I spotdodge an attack from sonic, and he's fast enough to punish it...

Here's some things I've tried:

Obviously playing defensively. I can't imagine not playing defensively against a Sonic.
Playing aggressive doesn't really get me anywhere either.
Playing patiently doesn't really work either...
I've also tried only playing Sonic while facing Sonic. This usually works well, but only if I play like most other people play, which I don't like. The way I play sonic is... Different...

Anyways.

Any tips?... Any advice at all would be /greatly/ appreciated.

Also, is anyone willing to play their sonic against me? Some extensive hands-on practice would be great.

If anyone is interested, my NNID is mrpoetatoebadger. My skype is Mr. Potatobadger.

Thanks in advance!

In neutral vs sonic always walk, don't run. Marth's dash to shield is bad bad bad (he can't put up his shield as fast as other character) If he commits to spindash you can dancing blade him out of it if you're confident or jab, but usually you'll just wanna hold your shield for a good second, being mindful that he can drop a spring after jumping or homing attack, or double jump away.

As I was reading this I realized that there's so much to say...I'll just stick with general advice.

Try to trap sonic, you won't always get to punish him when he spindashes at you, but you CAN take stage control/put yourself in a good position. He'll eventually corner himself at the ledge and has to make a choice on whether to stay there or try to spindash past you. Spindash has some start up frames so you can hit him before it comes up, and if you think he's going to shield cancel it you can go for the grab. If he's spindash shield cancelling over and over trying to bait you to do something, keep your cool and don't do anything laggy.

Tbh playing against sonic largely comes down to reading the other player and what they like to do. Trying to write a perfect guide on how to beat sonic isn't gonna work because of the sheer amount of mixups he has. A mix-up heavy sonic is very scary, especially in this game with rage and upsmash being so strong lol

Biggest things: walking/walking and shielding, grabbing him when he's trying to spindash cancel repeatedly, always following him and closing the gap, being safe in nuetral. If sonic's nowhere near you don't throw out anything. Just walk over to him and watch how he likes to approach/stuff your approaches. Watch what the sonic player likes to do, not all the things he can do.

 

[Camalange]

I like the Marth vs Sonic mu. I wanna play @ Espy Rose at TGC2 in friendlies if he's down, get some matches up if we can, showcase the mu, show its not *as bad* as people think.

Oc I have a tonnn of brawl sonic mu exp, so that would help, but then again Espy has a lot of brawl marth exp

You don't gotta tell me, lol, I ****ing love that match-up. I'll take out a Marth any day, Brawl or 4.

 

[Locuan]

You don't gotta tell me, lol, I ****ing love that match-up. I'll take out a Marth any day, Brawl or 4.

And yet, you didn't play against me at Apex.

 

[Camalange]

And yet, you didn't play against me at Apex.

Would've if I could've, bub.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

yea i feel sonic vs marth in smash 4 isn't super in our favor but definitely easier than it was in brawl. Marth wins the spacing game but we control neutral faster and more effectively than he can. Plus once Marth is offstage they can be put under soooo much more pressure than we are when put offstage.

 

[kj22]

You don't gotta tell me, lol, I ****ing love that match-up. I'll take out a Marth any day, Brawl or 4.

pshh you wish. I'll zone your blue butt oblivion, having you scratching your head on how to get it. Nair too OP son. Literally Marth's nair >sonic.
Oh wait i meant Dancing Blade>Sonic


And no auto ledge snapping up b? yum yum yum.
No killing options? YUM YUM YUM
I CAN LAND? ohhh shoot cammy you don't know what you've signed up for(;

 

[Camalange]

pshh you wish. I'll zone your blue butt oblivion, having you scratching your head on how to get it. Nair too OP son. Literally Marth's nair >sonic.
Oh wait i meant Dancing Blade>Sonic

Sonic's dash attack > Marth

No joke.

And no auto ledge snapping up b? yum yum yum.
No killing options? YUM YUM YUM
I CAN LAND? ohhh shoot cammy you don't know what you've signed up for(;

And this is why Sonic bodies Marth now, lol. He has all those things in 4.

 

[kj22]

Sonic's dash attack > Marth

No joke.

And this is why Sonic bodies Marth now, lol. He has all those things in 4.

I'll take that like 8% damage for a bit when you surprise me with it like once, then pivot grab your every approach because Marth has telekinesis in brawl.

Pivot grab>Sonic's approaches


pshhh its not bodies, more like...slightly beats(; marth can still keep up with him. All shall see saturday.

lmao sonic did gain all these things xDD
landing vs marth in brawl was sooo fun wasnt it?(;

 

[Camalange]

yo MM me best of a million brawl and 4 let's go

 

[kj22]

yo MM me best of a million brawl and 4 let's go

Winner gets to main Sonic in smash 8

 

[Camalange]

Winner gets to main Sonic in smash 8

loser mains bomberman 64

 

[Locuan]

loser mains bomberman 64

I feel like I'm in the wrong side here but I loved Bomberman 64 as a kid.

 

[Camalange]

I feel like I'm in the wrong side here but I loved Bomberman 64 as a kid.

well yeah we all did you fool but that doesn't represent the tier list okay just liking their game doesn't make them good in smash

 

[Espy Rose]

Sounds like the Brawl Marth arguments vs. Sonic all over again.
They were insane too.

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

Why don't we all just make Marth one of our secondaries (along with Captain Falcon and Ness) and stop fighting?

 

[Camalange]

I play Lucina against scrubs because it's just fundamentals.

Also...

dtilt > sonic lol

 

[VKatana]

Personally I get no enjoyment out of playing Ness. Falcon is my true secondary. Never really got into Lucina, but I use her in friendlies.

 

[Camalange]

Pit or Villager are probably my second best characters.

I don't have any true secondaries since I only go Sonic in tournament.

Trying to learn Mewtwo but he frustrates the living **** out of me.

 

[Gregory2590]

I wanted Mewtwo as a secondary, but I cannot handle dying at 90%.

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

There are like 5 characters that are my second favorites. I always like Marth, Ness, Captain Falcon, Kirby, and Mega Man as second favorites to Sonic in whatever games they're in. I also like a lot of other characters too, but wouldn't consider them secondaries (Luigi, Fox, Shulk, Ike, etc.).

 

[VKatana]

Fox and Falcon are so much fun, Mario too. Fox and Mario have a lot more complicated combos, there's always a lot of options you can take in situations to extend your combos as well as just creative stuff to keep flowing. It feels so good. Falcon on the other hand feels like just raw fundamentals and a LOT of speed and power.

 

[New Age Retro Hippie]

Is the stomp combo character dependent? I've been practicing for a few hours and noticed that it doesn't seem to work on heavier characters like Bowser and Ike after the HA. I've also been able to get it up to 50% on some characters mashing the SC on the way down, but the most consistent and easiest result at 41-44% comes from a non-charged SC

 

[EyexSore]

Trying to learn Mewtwo but he frustrates the living **** out of me.

Funny how the melee veteran has the physics that are closer to brawl.

 

[VKatana]

Anyone got some tips on dealing with Pikachus who QAC all over the place a ton? Also is springing just the best way to escape his combos or is there something better I can do?
I have a Pikachu in my area who I've played some (victorious) friendlies with, but we played a couple LAGGY AF WiFi friendlies and I felt pretty clueless. I don't know if it was just the lag or what, but I felt like I was having a lot of trouble and really getting combo'd hard. I wanna be able to 2-0 him if we ever do meet in tournament though.
Here's a more specific question that I probably should have included: what options does Sonic have that can beat out/counter QA?

 

[Camalange]

Funny how the melee veteran has the physics that are closer to brawl.

He definitely fits better than in Melee, but dear god his hitboxes are infuriating. Also his large hurtbox and low weight? Just... Ugh. The pain.

Anyone got some tips on dealing with Pikachus who QAC all over the place a ton? Also is springing just the best way to escape his combos or is there something better I can do?
I have a Pikachu in my area who I've played some (victorious) friendlies with, but we played a couple LAGGY AF WiFi friendlies and I felt pretty clueless. I don't know if it was just the lag or what, but I felt like I was having a lot of trouble and really getting combo'd hard. I wanna be able to 2-0 him if we ever do meet in tournament though.
Here's a more specific question that I probably should have included: what options does Sonic have that can beat out/counter QA?

I don't have much experience with Pikachu but... Just shield?

 

[Psyruby]

My friend wants me to ask if spin shot was taken out in the 1.0.6 patch as he can no longer do it. I told him it would be in the notes, but he doesn't believe me.

 

[New Age Retro Hippie]

Spin shot is still in. If you use the cstick to do it it needs to be set to attack and not smash or it won't work.

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

What are Sonic's best options out of shield? I feel like up smash, jab, nair, uair, ftilt and homing attack could be good attacks out of shield but I'm not sure really.

Also,why do you guys consider his approaches bad?

 

[EyexSore]

What are Sonic's best options out of shield? I feel like up smash, jab, nair, uair, ftilt and homing attack could be good attacks out of shield but I'm not sure really.

Also,why do you guys consider his approaches bad?

tbh I don't think his approaches are THAT bad. I mean, he's better than some others. I don't know about attacks out of shield. Can you spindash out of a shield?

 

[VKatana]

I don't really consider Sonic's approaches garbage, but it feels like Sonic is always either punishing his opponent or avoiding being punished. You're either escaping or capitalizing on their mistake. Well, that can be said for most Sonics. Aggressive play is definitely viable if you don't spin to win, and you can always just tomahawk as a bait and then SC combo them.