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[WORK IN PROGRESS]
"What the f*ck is a Sonic?" - SEGA
Upon venturing the contents stored within this thread, you will encounter a plethora of Sonic information for both novices and professionals alike. Anything from, but not limited to, patch notes, frame data, and advanced Sonic techniques can be discovered. Also archived are commonly asked questions, occasionally accompanied by tutorial videos to further elaborate. Open discussions to all are had when pondering relevant questions, though be prepared to perhaps become the target of our quick wit: Super Sonic style.
Welcome to the Sonic Boards.
"What the f*ck is a Sonic?" - SEGA
Upon venturing the contents stored within this thread, you will encounter a plethora of Sonic information for both novices and professionals alike. Anything from, but not limited to, patch notes, frame data, and advanced Sonic techniques can be discovered. Also archived are commonly asked questions, occasionally accompanied by tutorial videos to further elaborate. Open discussions to all are had when pondering relevant questions, though be prepared to perhaps become the target of our quick wit: Super Sonic style.
Welcome to the Sonic Boards.
Update Log:
- 12/20/18 - Transmuted the old Smash 4 GUIDE/FAQ thread to the Sonic Ultimate boards.
- 12/21/18 - v1.2.1 patch notes added.
- 12/31/18 - Updated Spinshot inputs.
- 1/21/19 - Added link to Sonic Discord and explanation of Double Spinshot.
- 1/29/19 - v2.0.0 patch notes added.
Patch Notes:
N/A
N/A
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Frame Data:
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General Common Terminology, Prefixes, & Suffixes:
IASA - Interruptible As Soon As
RAR - Reverse Aerial Rush
FSJ - Footstool Jump
AT - Advanced Technique
DD - Dash Dance
SC - Shield Cancel [But can also refer to Spin Charge (context will be your best friend)]
JC - Jump Cancel
DJ - Double Jump
FJ - Full Jump
SH - Short Hop
PP - Perfect Pivot
P - Pivot
A - Aerial/Air
G - Grounded/Ground
I - Instant
i - Invincible
V - Vertical
J - Jump
R - Roll
Not-So-Basic Sonic-Specific Terminology:
SC = Spin Charge [Down-B]
ASC = Aerial Spin Charge [Aerial Down-B]
SCR = Spin Charge Roll [Grounded Spin Charge Roll]
SD = Spin Dash [Side-B]
SDH = Spin Dash Hop [Release Side-B]
SDR = Spin Dash Roll [Grounded Spin Dash Roll]
ASDR = Aerial Spin Dash Roll [When the Spin Dash Roll itself (Not an Aerial Spin Dash Hop) is airborne)]
SJ = Spin Jump ["Tip Official" Non-Specific Spin Jump done out of Spin Dash/Charge Roll]
SCJ = Spin Charge Jump [Jump Attack done out of a Spin Charge Roll]
SDJ = Spin Dash Jump [Jump Attack done out of a Spin Dash Roll]
VSJ = Vertical Spin Jump [Jump done in place out of Spin Dash/Spin Charge]
VSDJ = Vertical Spin Dash Jump ("New") [Spin Dash Jump done out of Spin Dash that retains its charge]
SHSJ = Short Hop Spin Jump [Frame specific Short Hop variant of a Spin Jump]
* Can only be done by immediately pressing jump after a Spin Dash, Spin Charge, or Spin Dash Hop, hits the ground.
BSBS = Brawl Spring Bug Stance (aka Brawl Spring Bull Sh*t aka Bull Sh*t Bull Sh*t) [Thanks Sakurai]*
* More information coming soon.
Slow Spin Roll = Slow Spin Dash/Spin Charge Roll (aka Lyric Roll) [Usually happens after it connects with a shield, etc.]
Slope Cancel = Jump Canceling Spin Dash/Spin Charge on a sloped ramp [Inputs & Information listed below]
Spinshot = Double Jump Canceled Spin Dash* [Inputs & Information listed below]
* Spin Dash Spinshot can be done both in the air and on the ground.
** Spin Charge Spinshot has been removed. RIP.
Spinsh*t = A flubbed Spinshot [git gud]
Double Spinshot = Refreshing your double jump with directional airdodge and performing a second Spinshot.
Grinding = Extended Foxtrot [Input Foxtrot, return joystrick to neutral, and gently push in original direction to extend the slide of a Foxtrot]
The Smash Dictionary Continued.
Character Specific Jargon
"HA"- Homing Attack. His neutral special.
"SD"- Spin Dash. This is Sonic's Side-special. Though in context it could also mean 'self destruct' which is to basically kill yourself.
"SDH"- Spin Dash Hop. When you release Side-special, Sonic hops forward initially.
"SC" Spin Charge. This is Sonic's Down-special. Though in context it could also mean 'shield cancel' (for example, you can Shield Cancel the charge of a side-special, otherwise known as a 'SDSC').
"ASC"/"Aerial Spin Charge"/"ASD"/"Aerial Spin Dash"- Using Sonic's down-special and side-special (respectively) in the air.
"VSDJ"- Vertical Spin Dash Jump. Pressing the attack button while charging either side-special or down-special on the ground, or pressing the jump button while charging down-special on the ground, resulting in a slow ball attack that jumps directly upwards and can be cancelled with any aerial option.
"VSDJ2"- Vertical Spin Dash Jump 2. Hitting the jump button while charging side-special on the ground, resulting in Sonic jumping up in a charging ball. You have a decent amount of control over this jump and you will hold the current charge while you're in the air, but it has no hitbox and cannot be cancelled (in fact you are stuck in it until you land, at which point you have all the options available to you that you had before you jumped). Because jumping delays the charge, you can put off shield cancelling the side-special for longer.
"SDSC"- Spin Dash Shield Cancel. While charging Side-special but before it is fully charged, you can cancel the rest of the move by shielding. This can be done out of a Dash or Run to give you a small burst of speed.
"SDR"/"Spin Dash Roll"/"SCR"/"Spin Charge Roll"- When Sonic touches down on the ground after doing that Hop out of his Side special, or when his Down-special is travelling along the ground, this state of rolling forward is called a spin dash roll or spin charge roll respectively.
"SDJ"/"Spin Dash Jump"/"SCJ"/"Spin Charge Jump"- Jumping out of the roll while rolling along the ground after doing Side-special or Down-special.
"SDSH"- Spin Dash Short Hop. If you tap Jump as soon as you hit the ground after landing from the initial hop that occurs when you release side-special (SDH), you will do a smaller version of the SDJ. This can be from a grounded or an aerial side-special. The timing for this is usually very difficult (frame 29 only out of an uncharged side-special used on the ground; frame 30 will give you the regular SDJ, and frame 28 will have Sonic DJ out of the SDH), but if you do a side-special in the air after already having used up your double jump, you can actually hit and hold the jump button anywhere within a 10 frame window before you touch the ground and it will work easily every time.
"ISDJ"- Instant Spin Dash Jump. This is a technique that bypasses much of the animation of side-special to take you straight to doing a spin dash jump (SDJ). Normally if you want to use side special from the ground to do a SDJ, you need to hit side-special, wait for Sonic to curl up into a ball and charge for a moment, then wait for him to hop into the air (SDH) and wait for him to land and finally start rolling along the ground (SDR) before you can press either the attack or the jump button to do a SDJ and launch yourself through the air with a hitbox. The ISDJ skips all of this except for the first 7 frames of Sonic curling up just before he turns into a ball. What you need to do is run (not just dash) hit side-special (you may hold special if you like), then on frame 8 hit the attack button (not the jump button). If you press the attack button 1 frame too early, the input won't register and you'll just do a normal side-special. If you press it 1 frame too late, you'll do a vertical spin dash jump (i.e. you'll jump directly upwards with a hitbox while in a ball). Note that if you hit Backwards on the joystick on frames 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, or 7 then hit attack on frame 8, Sonic will do an ISDJ in the direction of the run as usual except he'll be facing backwards. If instead you hit Backwards on frame 4, you'll turn around mid-roll, start rolling back the other way, and if you hit attack on frame 8 you'll do an ISDJ in the opposite direction of your initial run.
"Spinshot"- This refers to using Sonic's side-special to propel Sonic's double jump forward at a speed and distance not normally possible (so yes, it requires that you still have your DJ). To do this, either hold side-special for a short period of time such that releasing the special button will result in an immediate action then at any point release the special button, only, the very moment (i.e. the same frame) that you release the special button, hit either the attack or jump button. If you hit attack/jump a frame before you release the special button, you'll double jump in place when performed in the air, or you'll do a vertical spin dash jump (VSDJ) when performed on the ground. If you hit either attack or jump a frame after you release the special button, you'll do what looks like a regular double jump forwards.
"BSBS"/"Brawl Spring Bug Stance"/"Bull ** Bull **"- This is the term used to describe the mechanic/'state' that makes you unable to use your double jump in different ways and for different reasons after having used side-special or down-special. You cannot use a double jump out of a 'SDJ'/'SCJ' if you started the 'SD' or 'SC' in the air, regardless of whether you released it in the air or on the ground. If however you roll off the edge of a platform or the stage and don't do the 'SDJ'/'SCJ', you will be able to double jump. If however, instead of just doing the 'SD'/'SC' in the air you do it in the air and after you've used up your double jump, rolling off the edge will not give you your double jump back. If you use SC in the air then cancel it with shield upon landing, you will retain the 'state' (BSBS) of having used an aerial SC the next time you use a SDR or SCR unless you jump then land at any point before doing the SDR/SCR as the jump will cancel out the 'state'. Similarly, if you start a SD/SC on the ground, go into a SDR/SCR then do a SDJ/SCJ, if you then fast fall without doing anything else, upon landing you will enter the same 'state' in which the game treats you as if you have just done an aerial SD/SC, so the next time you do a SDJ/SCJ, you will be unable to use your double jump unless you break out of the 'state' by jumping and landing. If you do an ASD/ASC then go into a SDR/SCR and let it roll until you stop, you will have entered into the BSBS 'state'. The effect can be sort of stacked as well. For example, if you enter the 'state' of BSBS by any means then do a SDJ/SCJ and fast fall it without doing anything else, if you then do a SDR/SCR and roll of the edge of the stage or a platform, you will not get to do a double jump, just as if you had used a SD/SC in the air after having used your double jump.
"DDP"/"Dash Dance Pivot"- This is what the Sonic's have coined the combination of using foxtrots and dash dances. Essentially, you can foxtrot in one direction, initiate another dash in the same direction then immediately hit backwards (a single dash dance) and then you can use that backward input as a foxtrot, then rinse and repeat. The effect can be much like Dash dancing was in Melee. Naturally, every character can do this, but the term 'DDP' seems to be used almost solely by Sonic mains.
"Steak"- This term, originally accidentally introduced by KirbyandSonicRock14 (KASR) can mean a variety of things. It is often used in the phrase 'winning steak' in which it means 'streak'. 'Steaked' can be used to mean something like 'pwned'. There is even a usage where 'steak' simply refers to Sonic, as in 'the blue steak'. Of course, it's entirely possible that in context 'steak' simply means 'a slice of high quality meat, typically the hindquarters of a cow'.
"
For a more extensive moveset breakdown, please visit @Sonic Orochi's Moveset Thread.
- Includes frame data, damage %'s, & more!
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[Jtails: Sonic Competitive Tutorial feat. Camalange]
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Question & Answer:
Q: Can Sonic still "Spinshot"?
A: Yes!
Q: What exactly is a "Spinshot"?
A: Spinshot is an AT (Advanced Technique) that allows Sonic to jump through the air while retaining the momentum of his ground speed.
Q: How do I shot spin?
A: You can Spinshot from Sonic's Side-B (Spin Dash) on the ground and in the air, and with Sonic's Down-B (Spin Charge) in the air. This tech was first discovered in Brawl and returned in both Smash 4 and Ultimate. The technique requires you inputting jump or attack at or past a certain point during their charge. C-Stick can also be used, if the conditions are met. It cannot be done once Spin Dash is fully charged (when his aura turns yellow) unless you are airborne.
Down-B Spinshot was made significantly more difficult to do in Ultimate than previous iterations. The input is closer to frame perfect, and success has been found by setting L or R to Jump to do it more efficiently.
https://t.co/biPypc0PIo @DerZoidSplash
— t o n i c @ neverending brainstorm (@cstonic) December 24, 2018
doing down b spinshot@Dinoslashz expresses the inputs as down b and jumping (shoulder buttonm or tap jump) nigh simultaneously
Recommended [only?] input(s):
Side-B
- Ground/Air:
/+> [Release] > [Tap] (Attack) or /(Jump) or [Flick] // **[ * ]
[ ** ]
Down-B
- Air:
+> [Release] > [Tap] (Attack) or /(Jump) or/ (Jump)* [Flick] // --
* Only works if airborne
** C-Stick only works if controls are switched from Smash to Tilt.
*** Easier if L or R is set to Jump.
There's also the Double Spinshot, which sounds more glamorous than it is. By using a directional airdodge right before you touch the ground, it refreshes your double jump and allows you to perform a second Spinshot.
Details: https://smashboards.com/threads/dou...ir-dodge-double-jump-refresh-spinshot.472200/
Q: Can you still Instant Spin Dash Jump (ISDJ)?
A: No.
Q: What was ISDJ?
In the purest of explanations, it is quite literally just a SDJ (Spin Dash Jump). It retains your double jump, has an active hitbox, and maintains any other qualities of SDJ, unlike a Spinshot.
* Reference: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-...-instant-spin-dash-jump.373605/#post-17792767 by @ItsRainingGravy
Recommended [only?] input(s):
/ > [Tap] /+ (Hold or Release) > immediately [Tap] (Attack)
* Reference: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-...-instant-spin-dash-jump.373605/#post-17792767 by @ItsRainingGravy
Recommended [only?] input(s):
- Ground:
/ > [Tap] /+ (Hold or Release) > immediately [Tap] (Attack)Q: What is BSBS (Brawl Spring Bug Stance aka Brawl Spring Bull Sh*t aka Bull Sh*t Bull Sh*t...)?
A: This is the mechanic will you learn to despise and will want to call by it's third listed title, because that's precisely what it is.
This mechanic correlates to how Spin Dash/Spin Charge roll stores your double jump. In a normal situation, you can enter a Spin Dash Roll/Charge Roll, do a Spin Dash/Charge Roll, and double jump out of it. However, now, if you start a Spin Dash/Charge from a jump or in the air, enter a Spin Dash/Charge Roll, then Spin Dash/Charge Jump, you are left unable to double jump out. This can lead to many unwanted suicides offstage, or just putting you in general unsafe situations where you are trapped in your spin. This can be negated however by rolling off a ledge (instead of going into a Spin Dash/Charge Jump), making you airborn again, which will give you a double jump.
So yeah, it's bull sh*t.
Cited: @Sonic Orochi's Moveset Thread
Spin Dash/Charge Roll Shenanigans (a.k.a.: why you keep SDing when using Side B and Down B)
Spin Dash/Charge Roll Shenanigans (a.k.a.: why you keep SDing when using Side B and Down B)
- You can't double jump out of a SDJ/SCJ that derives from an aerial SD/SC, even if you release those on the ground (i.e.: start them on the air, land and then release them). You can, however, use HA, Spring, air dodge or any aerial to get out of the SDJ/SCJ animation. Also, you can still double jump if you had it available before the ASC/ASD, but only if the SDR/SCR runs off the platform;
- If you shield cancel an aerial SD (or shield cancel a charge jump from an aerial SD), the game will consider any following SDR/SCR to be a SDR/SCR from a ASD/ASC: you won't be able to jump out of it;
- if you fastfall a SDJ/SCJ and land without dodging or attacking, you'll lose the ability to double jump out of any subsequent SDJ/SCJ. No matter what you do, you'll have to jump and touch the ground again in order to regain your ability to double jump out of a SDJ/SCJ that allows double-jumping;
- I've come to the conclusion that the reason behind this SDR shenanigans is due to a certain new mechanic that I'll explain further in the next few sentences. Sonic has two stances: normal, which is, well, your usual stance and Brawl Spring Bug stance (BSBS), which is when the game makes you unable to double jump out of a SDJ/SCJ (similar to how we were unable to double jump in Brawl after a Spring jump that met certain conditions);
- The BSBS basically means that you're standing on the ground but in a state in which the game thinks you're still in the aerial spin which came from an ASD or ASC. Therefore, any subsequent SDR/SCR you do while in this state will actually make that new, grounded SDR/SCR act like an aerial SDR/SCR (from an aerial Spin Special - SD or SC);
- However, that is not all. Fastfalling a SDJ/SCJ and doing nothing before landing will also trigger BSBS (fastfalling from greater heights so you can actually get out of the spinning animation before landing will not trigger BSBS, though);
- Also, if you don't have your double jump available AND enter BSBS, you won't even be able to double jump out of SD's hop;
- To add to that, if you fastfall a SDJ/SCJ while in BSBS, you'll definitely lose your double jump (even if you had it beforehand). Yep, jumping out of a SDR/SCR off the platform or out of SD's hop is just not going to happen;
- Some examples that end being straight up BSBS:
- Fastfall while still spinning: SDJ/SCJ, VSDJ, SDSH;
- ASD/ASC->land->full stop while on the ground;
- ASD/ASC->land->SDR/SCR off the platform->land->...->full stop while on the ground (the SDR/SCR off the platform CAN be jump cancelled, but only if you had your double jump available before the ASD/ASC. However, when it touches the ground again, it's BSBS all over again);
- SCASD (shield cancelled aerial Spin Dash);
- SCVSDJ2AAASDTINRAIICSYCTDAVSDJ2 (shield cancelled vertical Spin Dash jump 2 after an aerial Spin Dash that is not released and is instead charged so you can then do a vertical Spin Dash jump 2);
Q: Can Sonic shield cancel his Down-B (Spin Charge)?
A: No. You can no longer shield cancel his Down-B, including but not limited to ASCSC (Aerial Spin Charge Shield Cancel).
Q: Can Sonic still shield cancel his Side-B (Spin Dash)?
A: No.
Q: Can Spin Dash Roll (SDR) and Spin Charge Roll (SCR) still be jump-canceled on slopes?
A: Yes! Try pressing jump during a SDR or SCR on stages with slopes such as Corneria, Green Hill Zone, or the bridge on Wuhu Island. Sonic will return completely to neutral state while still maintaining some of his momentum from the SDR or SCR.
Q: So... What's the difference between Down-B and Side-B?
A: Coming Soon
Q: Is there a God?
A:
Q: Why do some of you talk about steak and end posts with Haunter?
A: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/winning-steak-093
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