Sonic General Discussion/Social thread

[Nazo]

By the time you notice "a spark" for sonic blast attack, you would have already been hit by it.

 

[leelue]

I don't care if the opponent notices
I care that people like the poster from a few posts back didn't even know that the move had a second mode.

 

[DireDrop]

Oh I see. That's a tough problem to solve, especially for a move like Sonic's Neutral B since the extra hidden input has to happen almost immediately. The PM Developers could update the website for starters. The character descriptions of Sonic is still version 2.1, and includes none of the recent changes. It also doesn't say anything about Blast Attack, which would be helpful. Though, they're busy getting demo 3.0/version 1.0 out the door.

 

[Kally Wally]

That or just change the input. Tab B = Blast attack, Hold B = Homing Attack? Or would that just cause the same problem in reverse, people not knowing it can home in?

Can't think of anything for any of the other multi-input moves, though.

 

[Nazo]

If the opponent doesn't know about second inputs for attacks, that's their fault for not knowing the MU properly and reading up on the character. There's no need to plaster warning signs on characters attacks just because of the opponent's lack of knowledge. I sure as hell don't get a warning when Snake decides to throw out the second input for his Fsmash.

Just like the saying goes:
Fool me once, shame on me... Fool me twice, I need to learn the MU.

 

[internetmovieguy]

Hi i am looking for some tips for sonic 2.6
so far i got the gattling combo down.
I typically stomp out of a spindash (with L cancel of course).
running -> down -> c-stick punch is always awesome
This combo still works:
up-tilt -> slightly move forward -> up-tilt -> short hop -> N-Air -> up-tilt -> jump -> sour f-air -> jump -> meteor f-air (hopefully they will be off edge by this point)

but what i miss from 2.5 was being able to spindash through a shield, Reverse B BA then repeat a second time. that put a lot of pressure on my opponent!
i need another good pressure tech to use while spinning!
bait and punish tips are useful but i prefer to pressure my opponents up close! (except peach)
also what throws are good to follow up with a gattling combo?

 

[Kally Wally]

If the opponent doesn't know about second inputs for attacks, that's their fault for not knowing the MU properly and reading up on the character. There's no need to plaster warning signs on characters attacks just because of the opponent's lack of knowledge. I sure as hell don't get a warning when Snake decides to throw out the second input for his Fsmash.

Just like the saying goes:
Fool me once, shame on me... Fool me twice, I need to learn the MU.

It's not about the opponent's lack of knowledge, it's about the USER'S lack of knowledge. The game does not teach the player that the attack is possible, which it really should. I fully believe that every game should be able to teach all of it's mechanics to a player without any sort of outside teaching, and ideally without a tutorial. Smash is usually very elegant about this, but things like the blast attack are allowing that elegance to fade. If something can be made more intuitive, it should be.

All that being said, I don't think a visual effect is the best solution. Why make subtle, misinterpretable hints about an unintuitive control scheme when you could make those controls more intuitive much more easily?

 

[leelue]

Nazo literally isn't getting what I'm trying to say.

Diredrop, even if the input has to happen in no-time, that just would mean that you wouldn't know the first couple times you used the move. But you'd go "wait, was that the extra input thing? oh man what is it?" and then try stuff. It's crazy to think that people will do this for every move in the game (jump, b, a for every move, at different windows no less) but if the game just showed you the dozen or so that had an input it's much more user friendly. I mean, I was hanging out with Wes' crew yesterday and the Ike player literally had no idea you could jump out of Side B. THAT is ridiculous.

I don't think you could make it easier than a universal, noticeable, nonintrusive marker, Kally Wally. All you'd need to notice is one of the markers in the game at all from one of the easy to notice ones like Bowser's down tilt (something players might inherently mash) or links forward smash (something historically 2-part) and you'd be like "Oh is that what that means when I do Ike's down smash?" and then it all clicks mentally. Poof.

You don't have to go scour the internet for days and ask people who probably don't know what they're saying. The game can teach you.

 

[DireDrop]

So you think the indicator should be the same across all characters? Maybe even a flash of color similar to how characters flash white when you L-Cancel? That makes sense, and I doubt that would be hard to implement. Maybe you could send them an email or whatever. However, like I said above, I'm sure they'll update the character pages after a big release. Those will have all those hidden inputs written out, and I'm positive there will be plenty of players who will read them and learn from them.

Also, should I know who Wes' crew is? I've only just started trying to break into the competitive scene and I really have no idea who's who or where they are, except for the big names like Dr. PeePee, M2K and Armada.

 

[Ariyo]

but what i miss from 2.5 was being able to spindash through a shield, Reverse B BA then repeat a second time. that put a lot of pressure on my opponent!
i need another good pressure tech to use while spinning!
bait and punish tips are useful but i prefer to pressure my opponents up close! (except peach)
also what throws are good to follow up with a gattling combo?

the best pressure i've figured out is probably just dair out of spindash. Not much else.

 

[leelue]

So you think the indicator should be the same across all characters? Maybe even a flash of color similar to how characters flash white when you L-Cancel? That makes sense, and I doubt that would be hard to implement. Maybe you could send them an email or whatever. However, like I said above, I'm sure they'll update the character pages after a big release. Those will have all those hidden inputs written out, and I'm positive there will be plenty of players who will read them and learn from them.

Also, should I know who Wes' crew is? I've only just started trying to break into the competitive scene and I really have no idea who's who or where they are, except for the big names like Dr. PeePee, M2K and Armada.

A full-body color flash might be too much, (maybe) but you have the same general idea.
You'd also be surprised how many people don't read the character pages, or maybe even know that they exist in the first place. There are several degrees of separation between some players who play and the players who made that first download off the site: many players just get files from friends and that's that.

Wes was a semi-big name once, and for a time was the only samus player I knew.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsDwz0JaeWI
back in 2006 when people could post combo videos of you just hitting people a couple times and it being cool

 

[SpiderMad]

You guys ever use the spin brake for anything (pressing Z)?

 

[Wizzrobe]

You guys ever use the spin brake for anything (pressing Z)?

I haven't found many good uses for it as it has some lag. Ive used it Only as a mix up once in a while.

 

[DireDrop]

You guys ever use the spin brake for anything (pressing Z)?

I don't think it's much faster at stopping than jumping out of spin and l-canceling a dair. I prefer having it over nothing, but it's no wavedash!

Hi i am looking for some tips for sonic 2.6
so far i got the gattling combo down.
I typically stomp out of a spindash (with L cancel of course).
running -> down -> c-stick punch is always awesome
This combo still works:
up-tilt -> slightly move forward -> up-tilt -> short hop -> N-Air -> up-tilt -> jump -> sour f-air -> jump -> meteor f-air (hopefully they will be off edge by this point)

but what i miss from 2.5 was being able to spindash through a shield, Reverse B BA then repeat a second time. that put a lot of pressure on my opponent!
i need another good pressure tech to use while spinning!
bait and punish tips are useful but i prefer to pressure my opponents up close! (except peach)
also what throws are good to follow up with a gattling combo?

A strong pressure game is what Sonic lost in the 2.5 to 2.6 nerf. We just don't have the tools necessary to do it anymore. I'd try using more side b (remember to wavedash out of it) with the occasional down b mixed in. But really, baiting and punishing is Sonic's forte. He's REALLY good at it, even in 2.6.

Also, what's the gattling combo? Is it what you described above?

 

[DX.Kingz]

Greetings everyone. I am indeed new to the site and would first like to say hello. It is an honor to see such high class names here that garner much respect in my eyes, as I have watched many of your videos. I am constantly in awe of the skill demonstrated. An wish to show my respect to all. As such I came across this forum and found myself drawn to it. I am a Sonic main and have been since the moment I got brawl, and the second project m gave him true life.

I am constantly trying to better my game. My number one philosophy is that a loss is not the characters fault, it is my own lack of adaptation or skill. Simple as that. Though now I find myself rather stumped. 2.5 was indeed my favorite version of Sonic. Due mostly in part because I felt like he was complete, I felt like the fastest character alive, which rightfully is Sonic's title. I felt a Sonic character had options, speed, and good recovery. Your whole goal was to pressure and combo, letting your instinct and reflexes speak for you.

I did indeed felt powerful, but nowhere at all invincible or broken, because many other characters, (when played with skill) seemed to have the edge on me. Donkey Kong's reach, between his jab and anti-air were combos. He was batting me away like a fly. Ike's well placed forward smash and spacing game, still seemed to out muscle me at every turn. An worst of all Mario could very well cripple all my approaches with his fire ball, and his higher priority moves (which are rather similar to Sonic's) made it near impossible to even spindash him or homing attack him to recover, especially when the cape shot me out. All in all I could deal with it with sharp focus and dedication, yet now I find myself sorely limited and underpowered.


I understand where balance comes into play, and that such is necessary so all may feel the game is fair and enjoy a good fight, but what I do not understand is where you lose everything and gain virtually nothing at all. Sonic now is tied to a spindash that anyone can see coming a mile away, it's much weaker and far to stiff to really be of use anymore. As well as the recovery options for it being near useless now, even forward B is rather pointless as well. His power has been drastically reduced, neutral air is a shadow of its former self and all other smashes seem to have weakened and gotten slower. Combined with Sonic's poor reach this is quite hard to get around without being punished. The only thing I really see truly improved is his colors. Sure the new colors are nice, but a paint job does not make up for ripping out a perfectly good engine, and putting in a bike chain and pedals instead. An what makes it truly hard to understand is that it seems all other characters got buffs, while Sonic was just stomped on and rolled under the rug.

I guess I feel like I'm returning to brawl status while everyone else has gone to become more complete. I mean Ganon's up tilt is now actually very useful and a good gimp all around. An Ness feels like someone shoved steroids down his throat and let him loose on a unsuspecting world. So I am wondering what would be a good suggestion as to how to evolve my game to deal with this new change. Because so far my efforts to keep up have felt rather disheartening. I am open to all suggestions, and please, if I am in the wrong or missing something I would be grateful to be pointed in the right direction.

I do apologize for bothering everyone with my rather long comment. Thank you very much for your time.

 

[Alex Night]

Greetings everyone. I am indeed new to the site and would first like to say hello. It is an honor to see such high class names here that garner much respect in my eyes, as I have watched many of your videos. I am constantly in awe of the skill demonstrated. An wish to show my respect to all. As such I came across this forum and found myself drawn to it. I am a Sonic main and have been since the moment I got brawl, and the second project m gave him true life.

I am constantly trying to better my game. My number one philosophy is that a loss is not the characters fault, it is my own lack of adaptation or skill. Simple as that. Though now I find myself rather stumped. 2.5 was indeed my favorite version of Sonic. Due mostly in part because I felt like he was complete, I felt like the fastest character alive, which rightfully is Sonic's title. I felt a Sonic character had options, speed, and good recovery. Your whole goal was to pressure and combo, letting your instinct and reflexes speak for you.

I did indeed felt powerful, but nowhere at all invincible or broken, because many other characters, (when played with skill) seemed to have the edge on me. Donkey Kong's reach, between his jab and anti-air were combos. He was batting me away like a fly. Ike's well placed forward smash and spacing game, still seemed to out muscle me at every turn. An worst of all Mario could very well cripple all my approaches with his fire ball, and his higher priority moves (which are rather similar to Sonic's) made it near impossible to even spindash him or homing attack him to recover, especially when the cape shot me out. All in all I could deal with it with sharp focus and dedication, yet now I find myself sorely limited and underpowered.


I understand where balance comes into play, and that such is necessary so all may feel the game is fair and enjoy a good fight, but what I do not understand is where you lose everything and gain virtually nothing at all. Sonic now is tied to a spindash that anyone can see coming a mile away, it's much weaker and far to stiff to really be of use anymore. As well as the recovery options for it being near useless now, even forward B is rather pointless as well. His power has been drastically reduced, neutral air is a shadow of its former self and all other smashes seem to have weakened and gotten slower. Combined with Sonic's poor reach this is quite hard to get around without being punished. The only thing I really see truly improved is his colors. Sure the new colors are nice, but a paint job does not make up for ripping out a perfectly good engine, and putting in a bike chain and pedals instead. An what makes it truly hard to understand is that it seems all other characters got buffs, while Sonic was just stomped on and rolled under the rug.

I guess I feel like I'm returning to brawl status while everyone else has gone to become more complete. I mean Ganon's up tilt is now actually very useful and a good gimp all around. An Ness feels like someone shoved steroids down his throat and let him loose on a unsuspecting world. So I am wondering what would be a good suggestion as to how to evolve my game to deal with this new change. Because so far my efforts to keep up have felt rather disheartening. I am open to all suggestions, and please, if I am in the wrong or missing something I would be grateful to be pointed in the right direction.

I do apologize for bothering everyone with my rather long comment. Thank you very much for your time.

My advice is to work more on his neutral game. He still has an effective bait and punish game thanks to his speed combined with dash dancing, wavedashing, and moonwalking. Although I still do find a couple of changes questionable like removing airdodging out of Spin Dash and not being able to airdodge or wall jump out of Up B, he still can be a pretty tough contender if you play him similar to Brawl. Pestering and annoying his opponents is still in his game and his jump canceled grabs are one of the best. He still has his Spin Shot or at least that's what I've been hearing.

I get the feeling, man. I really do, but there is hope for the Blue Blur. You just need to work on his neutral game.

I haven't found many good uses for it as it has some lag. Ive used it Only as a mix up once in a while.

It really is no Wavedash and I kinda wish you can just shield into it instead of stopping like that, but I guess that's what we got...

 

[DireDrop]

Welcome to the boards DX. Kingz!

Alex pretty much nailed it. Sonic is a bait and punish character, and that takes some work to get good at. And all is most certainly not lost.

I understand where balance comes into play, and that such is necessary so all may feel the game is fair and enjoy a good fight, but what I do not understand is where you lose everything and gain virtually nothing at all. Sonic now is tied to a spindash that anyone can see coming a mile away, it's much weaker and far to stiff to really be of use anymore. As well as the recovery options for it being near useless now, even forward B is rather pointless as well. His power has been drastically reduced, neutral air is a shadow of its former self and all other smashes seem to have weakened and gotten slower. Combined with Sonic's poor reach this is quite hard to get around without being punished. The only thing I really see truly improved is his colors. Sure the new colors are nice, but a paint job does not make up for ripping out a perfectly good engine, and putting in a bike chain and pedals instead. An what makes it truly hard to understand is that it seems all other characters got buffs, while Sonic was just stomped on and rolled under the rug.

Sonic lost a lot because he had too much. Way too much! Think about how ridiculously good down b was for a second. You could approach with it, you could pressure with it, you could combo with it, you could kill with it, and you could even camp with it! And Sonic's 2.5 recovery? With homing attack AND slow fall dair!? He could fling himself off-stage, attack (usually killing) his opponent, and still make it back without putting himself in danger.

"Sonic now is tied to a spindash that anyone can see coming a mile away" - That's not true. No one is forcing Sonic or you to use spindash and he is not "tied" to any one move. Neither are you. Sonic has a fantastic move set, we just have to get used to not depending on down b all the time. Imagine if you will, an alternate universe where Fox was always low tier and in the release of Project M he was given the strength he always deserved. But alas, in their hype, the PM team buffed his side B way too much and his recovery was way too good. So in the next release, they put lag on the end of side B, and now it puts you in the helpless state. In addition to that, up B no longer begins instantaneously and instead has a "charge up" period before Fox launches. Up b now also puts you in a helpless state, just like most up Bs. If this happened, no doubt it would suck for the Fox mains. But they'd get over it. They'd stop relying on side B as an attack and learn to use it only for recovery. As for Up B, they'd deal with it, it's still a good recovery. They would learn to use his bair more efficiently, his nair more effectively, and look! His uair is still a great kill move! And of course the uses of the shine would be explored more.

This isn't exactly the greatest analogy, but I hope my point is coming across. Sonic hasn't been pulled below everyone else. He's been pulled down TO the level of everyone else, and that takes some getting used to. Don't lose hope on our favorite blue hedgehog. Even now, it's still way too early to say he's low tier, or even merely viable. It took years for the Melee veterans meta game to develop, and it's going to take some time before we see Sonic played at an optimal level too.

 

[~Frozen~]

One small thing I'd like to bring up is that I had similar thoughts for Lucario back when 2.5 released. I had the idea he was fine in 2.1 and 2.5 made him trash.

Needless to say, I later learned that he was an abomination and had incredibly broken aspects that did indeed warrant nerfs. Playing the new, balanced Lucario allowed me to become fundamentally stronger and enabled me to better myself as a player more than if 2.1 Lucario still existed.

The end result was that with enough work, I was able to see that...this character was still good after all! He still had unique mechanics but was more in line with the rest of the cast, but definitely not underpowered whatsoever.

I feel the same fate will await 2.6 Sonic, and have even picked him up to try and further what is now an interesting character to me.

 

[Neptune Shiranui]

Sonic is still good. Its just that he has more of a neutral game now instead of relying on his specials so much. Dash-dancing, moon-walking, and wave-dash can all be still be used effectively as either approaching, baiting, or mind-gaming the opponent. Spring knockback may have gotten nerfed but it leaves enough time to catch up and gimp the opponent. I also love the fact that side-b still has wave-dash and a good tech-chaser.

 

[SpiderMad]

It's all about homing attack

 

[Alex Night]

Sonic is still good. Its just that he has more of a neutral game now instead of relying on his specials so much. Dash-dancing, moon-walking, and wave-dash can all be still be used effectively as either approaching, baiting, or mind-gaming the opponent. Spring knockback may have gotten nerfed but it leaves enough time to catch up and gimp the opponent. I also love the fact that side-b still has wave-dash and a good tech-chaser.

All true, but I kinda feel like using the Wavedash out of Side B is kind of a moot tactic as you really gotta be low to the ground to be airdodge into the ground in comparison to the old Spin Dash Wavedash tech. Still, using dash dancing with Moonwalking really seems to improve the distance I go with the Moonwalk, helping me get a surprise standing grab. I kinda wish that Sonic's green skin stayed the same, but at least we got the purple swag Sonic skin. All to top it off is being able to keep wagging my finger for as long as I keep holding down on the up taunt button.

 

[Tero.]

Sonic is still good. Its just that he has more of a neutral game now instead of relying on his specials so much. Dash-dancing, moon-walking, and wave-dash can all be still be used effectively as either approaching, baiting, or mind-gaming the opponent. Spring knockback may have gotten nerfed but it leaves enough time to catch up and gimp the opponent. I also love the fact that side-b still has wave-dash and a good tech-chaser.

Moonwalking is a gimmick it has no real uses.
Never ever use the word "mindgam(e/ing)" again, thanks.
Sonic sucks now. We should all play another character...

 

[leelue]

I do play another character
and for what it's worth, I moonwalked constantly with sonic.

 

[Sonjicboom]

So to divert the topic for a second, what are some observations pertaining to the Meta Knight match-up (that don't involve benching Sonic in favor of Wofl)? I've noticed that a well-placed f-tilt can neutralize MK's tornado resulting in a clash, from which Sonic recovers with a slight frame advantage. Am I tripping, or can f-tilt be used to consistently halt that attack?

 

[Neptune Shiranui]

Moonwalking is a gimmick it has no real uses.
Never ever use the word "mindgam(e/ing)" again, thanks.
Sonic sucks now. We should all play another character...

Trust me, Sonic is still a good character he just has a different play style. Moonwalking for me is very useful for edgeguarding and setups. You make think Sonic sucks now, but I think he's still a great character.

 

[internetmovieguy]

Also, what's the gattling combo? Is it what you described above?

No, The Gattling combo is a dash attack canceled up smash (dacus) that hits with the dash attack before canceling into an up smash
check out this video for a demo on his and other new gattling combos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxq2TSnakNc


One of the goals for this game was for each character to have multiple different playing styles. Playing close and personal is my preferred style with sonic.
He may be good at bait and punish but that is not what i enjoy.

 

[Nausicaa]

He was a stupid good in 2.1, stupid broken in 2.5, and functional in 2.6.
**** ain't broke meow, don fix no more!
He's too fast to be trash, L2P as if this was the only Sonic you've ever seen.
Most of all, be happy. Sonic is fun. :D

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

For the most part, 2.6 Sonic feels alright. I do think they went overboard on weakening his nair though, considering that's the attack he uses as his primary killer in most of the Sonic series, outside of Homing Attack.

 

[SAX]

Here are some extremely recent vids of Wizzy's sonic is 2.6
Hope you guys enjoy.

http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/b/437333557

http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/b/437381632

 

[Nazo]

Plup's Ivysaur is pretty awesome. I want to see more of it.

 

[leelue]

Ivysaur is ****ed up in general. Our 5th best player became our second best immediately because of that stupid campy seed bombing fly trap.

 

[Appledees]

maybe its cause i'm bad and gay but fighting T.Link or even Regular link is a pain in the ass now with Sonic

I must be doing something wrong but its very frustrating getting past millions of arrows and bombs

 

[DX.Kingz]

Well it's been a minute and I would like to express my full gratitude for all the advice I've gotten, thank you all it has truly helped me.

I have been playing this Sonic too much like 2.5. An now I see the potential of this one. Sure he is not as aggressive as the previous Sonic (I could just overwhelm the opponent to death adding a bit of fakes in as needed), but he has a lot more to offer in terms of play style. The motto i learned from this....pester and punish! This Sonic has a great pester game. (which was stated by many above, you guys are genius!)

For instance dodge as well as back grabs, or moon-walking. An I stress the moon-walking part, then using grab to catch someone from behind. A tactic that has been very fruitful, and with the update to his up air this can make it very dangerous for someone still in the immediate stun of a combo or the helpless state. An homing attack still proves the best set up for combs for me. A well placed homing attack and then make use of the new spin-dash landing right on top of the foe. From there punish them if they crouch cancel with a full charged attack or shoot off quickly and create an opening with a jump spin-dash or whatever you see fit. Hey experiment.

The new spin-dash may not be as versatile but it is very hard to guard or dodge well. An that's the point. On flat areas like FD you can combo to your hearts content, and on bigger courses with slopes just don't think you have to dash-attack right into the fray. Remember, you cant out muscle everyone...but you can out run anyone. Get them to chase you, than dash dance and punish them for trying to do so.

All in all the thing I'm working most on is my recovery, still needs some fine tuning but that will come with practice.An I have no doubt the proper use will present itself.

I guess I was so upset by the change and what they took away from me, that I didn't take into account this awesome chance to become stronger I was given. I'm now thinking several steps ahead and making sure my speed can get the job done. I still feel this game is 90% instinct, but now 5% planing 5% outlook. Confidence is key, I played so much worse when I was dwelling on what I cant do, now I enjoy seeing what kind of new combo or gimp I will come up with on the spot.

So thanks again to you all. Sonic is still a boss, and I look forward to the next game.

 

[ph00tbag]

Moonwalking is a gimmick it has no real uses.
Never ever use the word "mindgam(e/ing)" again, thanks.
Sonic sucks now. We should all play another character...

Point of order, moonwalking actually gives you full-speed reverse momentum out of an initial dash. This allows you to back-jump with the momentum of a running forward jump. Full-speed reverse momentum can be achieved out of a full run with RAR, but to my knowledge the RAR input during an initial dash will result in a pivot back jump, and will lose run momentum. Thus moonwalking is the fastest, and least space-costly way to achieve full-speed reverse momentum on a back-jump.

Whether that's useful to Sonic is another thing entirely, but Falcon can use it to do some bair edgeguard set-ups that are impossible without it. So it's not a gimmick. It opens up options that otherwise don't exist, and which are solid.

That said, of course, most players just use it to show off, leading to a perception that it's gimmicky.

 

[SpiderMad]

I think Falcon's backwards FH is also a tad higher than his normal FH, no clue on any other characters but it'd be interesting and great to know

 

[TwicH]

All I want to see is Sonic get his WD cancel out of Down-B, be able to use Homing Attack out of a confirmed hit on his Down-B, be able to shield cancel when landing on the stage with his Down-B and can jump cancel while charging his Down-B.

The stuff that made sense to remove was his ability to jump out of a successful HA, his knock back on F-tilt, and having an infinite charge on his Down-B.

If they can make those changes in the next update then Sonic will be fine

 

[Solharath]

Sonic should not get WD out of spindash back. It was way too useful and I was happy to see it go.

Sonic should get the ability to HA immediately after leaving the ground out of spin dash. I would also like to see the return of slowfall dair or a stronger hitbox on bair/dair(non-sweetspot) so you can actually use them off stage at understandable percentages.

Good DI should not guarantee living past 150% after being hit with the strong hitbox of bair from the side of the stage. I just do not see Sonic with the tools to perform at high levels of play right now. He's... what we have right now is a good base to start, but he's super-rough with his specials. The timing when you're allowed to act out of Side-B and Blast Attack have nothing about them that lets the player know they can act again. A flash or something(A different animation for a successful Blast Attack?) to let the player know that they can move would be appreciated than just choosing a spot where you're generally sure you can act out of.

If we have the ability to make a marker to help a player play the character better without changing the way they're actually played, I'm all for it. Right now Sonic's feels full of gunk and needs to be more fine tuned. He's not a lot of fun to play, he's just who I play best because he still acts the same, I just get pretty lackluster results from most strings that would have left my opponent dead in 2.5, and that's ignoring Spin Shenanigans.

...Also the hitboxes for uair is a mess. It's a good mess, just... weird.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Sonic should not get WD out of spindash back. It was way too useful and I was happy to see it go.

Sonic should get the ability to HA immediately after leaving the ground out of spin dash. I would also like to see the return of slowfall dair or a stronger hitbox on bair/dair(non-sweetspot) so you can actually use them off stage at understandable percentages.

Good DI should not guarantee living past 150% after being hit with the strong hitbox of bair from the side of the stage. I just do not see Sonic with the tools to perform at high levels of play right now. He's... what we have right now is a good base to start, but he's super-rough with his specials. The timing when you're allowed to act out of Side-B and Blast Attack have nothing about them that lets the player know they can act again. A flash or something(A different animation for a successful Blast Attack?) to let the player know that they can move would be appreciated than just choosing a spot where you're generally sure you can act out of.

If we have the ability to make a marker to help a player play the character better without changing the way they're actually played, I'm all for it. Right now Sonic's feels full of gunk and needs to be more fine tuned. He's not a lot of fun to play, he's just who I play best because he still acts the same, I just get pretty lackluster results from most strings that would have left my opponent dead in 2.5, and that's ignoring Spin Shenanigans.

...Also the hitboxes for uair is a mess. It's a good mess, just... weird.

I feel like U-air is better, a little different but better.

Also, yea it is hard to kill with Sonic since his only good reliable-ish kill move is a certain part of the hitbox of Fair lol.

 

[Solharath]

Wizzy, I Uair spammed today and I just opened up my opponent. It's a great shorthop tool for flying through shield grab range. Those hitboxes were wonky as hell and I stopped using Nair on stage because Uair is the better option always. Nair's a gimp tool only now, it seems. And an interrupt, I guess, but nothing like a Peach/Luigi Nair.

I dunno, when Uair spam is giving a Charizard trouble because you're flying through him with like, three or so refreshing hitboxes, I start to feel like maybe it's a bit too good. Even if Sonic has nothing that I'd consider "too good" anymore.

 

[SpiderMad]

It's a good day when Up-air is useful for a lot of stuff, which 2.6 Ike with his better nair kinda replaced most niches his Up-air had. Having Sonic's Up-air more be more useful than Nair in those situations gives you added C-stick/Air control