Song of Time: Zelda's Changes in PM. 3.6 HYPE

[Downdraft]

Critical heels shouldn't return. I'd like a better dair hit box and the return of Diamond Diving. Smash 4's teleport would put Zelda in an advantageous position when returning to the stage, which would be unfair. She doesn't need more vertical KO power. The loss of stage control really hurts, and I wish there was something to compensate for that. 3.5 aimed to remove a lot of the gimmicks and janky stuff, but the new Din's is a gimmick. If Zelda's Din Fire will remain gimmicky, then she should keep the superior version from 3.02. I'd like teledashing back, but I suppose that's considered a burst movement option.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Critical heels shouldn't return. I'd like a better dair hit box and the return of Diamond Diving. Smash 4's teleport would put Zelda in an advantageous position when returning to the stage, which would be unfair. She doesn't need more vertical KO power. The loss of stage control really hurts, and I wish there was something to compensate for that. 3.5 aimed to remove a lot of the gimmicks and janky stuff, but the new Din's is a gimmick. If Zelda's Din Fire will remain gimmicky, then she should keep the superior version from 3.02. I'd like teledashing back, but I suppose that's considered a burst movement option.

For the record I was being flippant about critical heels, Sm4sh, and Melee's nair, I just wanted to invoke more discussion. I don't agree that 3.02's Din's are superior, or that 3.5 Din's are a gimmick, though I'm sure we are both operating on different definitions of "gimmick." And her current teleport cancelling in 3.5 is still a burst movement option, it's just more punishable than it was in 3.02.

 

[Downdraft]

For the record I was being flippant about critical heels, Sm4sh, and Melee's nair, I just wanted to invoke more discussion. I don't agree that 3.02's Din's are superior, or that 3.5 Din's are a gimmick, though I'm sure we are both operating on different definitions of "gimmick." And her current teleport cancelling in 3.5 is still a burst movement option, it's just more punishable than it was in 3.02.

Then I don't understand what burst movement is because 3.5 teleport cancelling isn't as fast or good from the ground. 3.5 teleport cancelling's major benefit is that it improves her recovery options. I didn't see anything wrong with 3.02 Din's or the current Din's. Typically, when I discuss Zelda negatively its either with regard to her weaknesses (nerfs) or from the perspective of a Zelda hater.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Then I don't understand what burst movement is because 3.5 teleport cancelling isn't as fast or good from the ground. 3.5 teleport cancelling's major benefit is that it improves her recovery options. I didn't see anything wrong with 3.02 Din's or the current Din's. Typically, when I discuss Zelda negatively its either with regard to her weaknesses (nerfs) or from the perspective of a Zelda hater.

Burst movement is movement that doesn't involve running, walking, jumping, or wave dashing. Examples are Zelda's Farore's Wind, Ike's quick draw, 3.0 Metaknight down air and his dimension cape, Pikachu's quick attack cancel, Mewtwo's teleport, ect. I would even include Wario's dair and Ivysaur's up air in that definition. 3.02 had a lot of burst movement options that required very low commitment (like float cancel out of M2's teleport, or Metakngiht's down air, and Zelda's teleport forward WD backward) which is why many of them were nerfed or removed. The PMDT wanted to "revise tools that provide excessive burst movement without appropriate risk." I do with that acting out of teleport was as fast as 3.02 but that's just the hand we were dealt this patch.

 

[Downdraft]

Burst movement is movement that doesn't involve running, walking, jumping, or wave dashing. Examples are Zelda's Farore's Wind, Ike's quick draw, 3.0 Metaknight down air and his dimension cape, Pikachu's quick attack cancel, Mewtwo's teleport, ect. I would even include Wario's dair and Ivysaur's up air in that definition. 3.02 had a lot of burst movement options that required very low commitment (like float cancel out of M2's teleport, or Metakngiht's down air, and Zelda's teleport forward WD backward) which is why many of them were nerfed or removed. The PMDT wanted to "revise tools that provide excessive burst movement without appropriate risk." I do with that acting out of teleport was as fast as 3.02 but that's just the hand we were dealt this patch.

I didn't use many of Zelda's tweaked or removed tools effectively in 3.02, but I've been able to deduce how much better certain options were in 3.02. 3.5 makes many non-Melee top tiers have to get better since their characters became less free, but when we do become good, won't we long for the more powerful incarnations of our characters?

 

[WhiteCrow]

when we do become good, won't we long for the more powerful incarnations of our characters?

I've been longing for a better Zelda since Melee and we have one. This Zelda is MUCH more prepared to handle the top tiers of Melee, and I'm very happy with how she turned out in 3.5. I know that's not the most popular opinion, but compared to Brawl Zelda and Melee Zelda, this iteration has all the tools to succeed with a still unique play style.

 

[BlackMamba]

Lol I don't want 3.02's Din's back. I just want 3.5's din to not screw with the camera. I'm fine with Telecanceling, I just wanted the extra 2 frames of ending lag to go away, and a somewhat more reliable method of snapping up to platforms cuz as someone mentioned earlier, it's pretty impossible and too risky to do consistently right now. Dair buff would be nice but I can live if it doesn't happen. Other than that I'm happy with her the way she is.

 

[Downdraft]

Lol I don't want 3.02's Din's back. I just want 3.5's din to not screw with the camera. I'm fine with Telecanceling, I just wanted the extra 2 frames of ending lag to go away, and a somewhat more reliable method of snapping up to platforms cuz as someone mentioned earlier, it's pretty impossible and too risky to do consistently right now. Dair buff would be nice but I can live if it doesn't happen. Other than that I'm happy with her the way she is.

I don't want 3.02 Din's back either. 3.5 Zelda doesn't have stage control, and her approach options are weaker (more punishable teleport cancel and no invincibility on aerial Nayru's). For a character that's heavily reliant on her specials, she either needs improvement to her character attributes or her specials. The problem with the latter is that Zelda's specials generate so many complaints regardless of what the PMDT does with them. We recently observed complaints about transform. We know how frustrated low and mid level players get over Nayru's. We've experienced the antagonism about 3.02 Din's, and I'm sure we've heard how Farore's Wind is too good of an unpredictable recovery. The problem with changing her attributes is that you'd no longer have Zelda. If you increase her mobility to the point of significantly increasing her viability, then she becomes less of a defensive character. If you increase her weight or falling speed, she won't feel the same. Perhaps you two are content with Zelda because you don't want that chance that she gets worse; however, there really appears to be no way to satisfy both Zelda mains and her opponents.

 

[4tlas]

Give me multiple standing mines again, please! Let me create LoZ dungeons with Dins Fire again please!
I don't think they should, though. Having one companion mine means she can't rely on the move quite as much.

The thing I really really need back is the critical heel. Hell, just the priorities of the hitboxes going back to the old system would be fine with me. I'm sick of landing crit heels and having them be sourspots.

 

[Vitriform]

Lol I don't want 3.02's Din's back. I just want 3.5's din to not screw with the camera. I'm fine with Telecanceling, I just wanted the extra 2 frames of ending lag to go away, and a somewhat more reliable method of snapping up to platforms cuz as someone mentioned earlier, it's pretty impossible and too risky to do consistently right now. Dair buff would be nice but I can live if it doesn't happen. Other than that I'm happy with her the way she is.

You've summed up exactly the changes I'm hoping to see for Zelda. I think she's in a great place right now and she just needs a tiny buff to her approach and combo breaking game to make her a little less vulnerable to camping and juggling.

 

[Downdraft]

Give me multiple standing mines again, please! Let me create LoZ dungeons with Dins Fire again please!
I don't think they should, though. Having one companion mine means she can't rely on the move quite as much.

The thing I really really need back is the critical heel. Hell, just the priorities of the hitboxes going back to the old system would be fine with me. I'm sick of landing crit heels and having them be sourspots.

On your first point, you're right. On your second demand, I'd agree to that.
Better yet, let's raise our voices for Melee kicks.
MELEE KICKS! MeLeE KiCks! Melee Melee Melee Kicks!

You've summed up exactly the changes I'm hoping to see for Zelda. I think she's in a great place right now and she just needs a tiny buff to her approach and combo breaking game to make her a little less vulnerable to camping and juggling.

Exactly.

 

[4tlas]

Oh and a few more sweetspot frames on Dair wouldn't be unreasonable. 1?! This isn't rest or anything...

 

[Downdraft]

Oh and a few more sweetspot frames on Dair wouldn't be unreasonable. 1?! This isn't rest or anything...

That or have it come out faster.

 

[4tlas]

That or have it come out faster.

That would be more useful for stopping followups, which might be too much. But I'm not a playtester.

 

[Downdraft]

@ Kaeldiar When we previously discussed Melee kicks, didn't you state that most kill moves have a 200-300 knockback units at 100%? Here are Zelda's kill moves in terms of decreasing knockback units at 100%. All damage values are on hit. Values for sweetspot attacks are from the sweetspot IDs. Attacks are not listed in order of utility/effectiveness.

Ground D-air: 18 damage, frame 14, 264.344 at 275 degrees
Strongest Timed Detonation Din's Mine: 25 damage, 243.4 at 80 degrees
Aerial D-air: 20 damage, frame 14, 232.8 at 275 degrees
Early B-air: 18 damage, frame 5, 222.36 at Sakurai angle
Early F-air: 19 damage, frame 8, 217.93 at 40 degrees
U-air: 17 damage, frames 14-17, 214.2905 at 90 degrees
Early U-tilt: 15 damage, frames 8-16, 210.335 at 75 degrees
Uncharged F-smash: 13 damage, frame 14, 198.98 at Sakurai angle
Late U-tilt: 13 damage, frames 17-28, 193.98 at 85 degrees
Late B-air: 15 damage, frame 6-8, 192.5925 at Sakurai angle
Late F-air: 16 damage, frame 9-11, 189.16 at 40 degrees

I'd be interested in knowing which characters have a higher average amount of kill power. The top 3 attacks are rarely used. With the exception of F-smash, all of these moves require precision in timing or space. Then there's the issue of angles, which in combination with DI influences opponents' ability to survive. Also, one must remember that damage affects knockback. Let's not forget that f-air and b-air are frequently used, so they will feel the effects of stale move negation. Putting all things together, I'd say that frame 8 f-air, the u-air sweetspot, and perhaps frame 8-16 u-tilt are her best options. F-air does 1 more damage and sends at a lower angle than B-air while only doing slightly less knockback. U-air sweetspot and early U-tilt are great vertical kill options. Fully charged F-smash would move up the list, but that only seems practical for punishing unsafe attempts to get back on stage such as get up attacks, not sweetpspotting the ledge, etc.

What is the Zelda Board's take on Zelda's kill power?

 

[otheusrex]

The problem with changing her attributes is that you'd no longer have Zelda. If you increase her mobility to the point of significantly increasing her viability, then she becomes less of a defensive character.

Not necessarily, sheik is defensive. I think one of the complications of Zelda design is lack of imagination and defined parameters. I would bet that if we opened a discussion about how to describe what makes Zelda Zelda, then more people would be emphasizing similar but different points, each of which can be accomplished in designing a smash character in numerous ways. I see an infinity of well designed Zeldas, each different, but sometimes two given parameters just aren't able to be satisfied in the same build. I think 3.5 zelda's failings have the most to do with trying to satisfy two different camps around zelda design (zelda traditionalists and people who want a full redesign); this build ends up somewhere in the middle and only takes half strides to satisfy either camp. Seeing it in this light also explains why, zhime, and on this point I agree with him, thinks that this build has no clear focus to it, that it's an assortment of moves rather than a toolset focused towards an intended niche in the smash roster.

I think she's in a great place right now and she just needs a tiny buff to her approach and combo breaking game to make her a little less vulnerable to camping and juggling.

I agree; she's taken a larger hit to her combo breaking than she should have with how they redesigned nayrus love. The same goes for her tools to approach. and on that note

What does everyone else want for 3.6? Critical Heels returned? A better dair hit box? Diamond Diving? Smash 4's teleport? Melee's nair?

aerial Nayrus hitboxes frame 5 with land cancel pushed back a few frames to avoid stupidness, also no reversable hitbox; teleport disappearence speed, landing lag, telecancel b reversable on ground and in air, removed 2 extra telecancel frames, restored kb angle of teleburn; dash grab and standing grab animation tweaks to grab lower opponents, jab angle and kb change to restore combo function, ftilt slightly more distjoint and all hitboxes clankable to aid against projectiles, dtilt more range and base knockback, kciks slightly more power; dins fire less decelleration, larger manual and timed out explosions... I think that's
everything I'd want.

 

[4tlas]

@ Downdraft How do you get this data, and can we compare it to other characters'? I'm interested in Fox upair and upsmash, Falco fsmash, Falcon knee, Ganon fair and bair, Marth tip fsmash, Sheik fair, and rest.

I'm not expecting all of these to be comparable, but I think they are iconic enough moves that people can imagine what they look like in their heads.

 

[Downdraft]

http://smashboards.com/threads/zelda-hitboxes-and-frame-data-3-5.339419/
That thread's creator has links to other 3.5 frame data threads in their signature.

 

[TimeSmash]

Hyrule Warriors Zelda would be so cool. I don't know if I would want to use OoT blue Zelda since it was such a light shade in Melee. I would totally use a blue Hyrule Warriors Zelda though.

In 3.6 I really just want the camera scaling removed from Din's Fire. It gives me a headache playing on Dreamland with a small CRT and EVERYONE *****es about it. I'd like it if teleport didn't get stuck on walls but they didn't change that in 3.5 so I doubt it will ever change. After playing with @ otheusrex 's Farore's Wind I would actually like to see something like that added into the main build. I'm sure a lot of other Zelda's would disagree with me, saying it would be a major recovery nerf (our teleports would be telegraphed), but it really helps with practicing teleports and knowing where you are.

What does everyone else want for 3.6? Critical Heels returned? A better dair hit box? Diamond Diving? Smash 4's teleport? Melee's nair?

Smash 4 teleport could you imagine. WELL YOU'RE AT 40% AND NEAR THE CEILING BYE

 

[WhiteCrow]

aerial Nayrus hitboxes frame 5 with land cancel pushed back a few frames to avoid stupidness, also no reversable hitbox; teleport disappearence speed, landing lag, telecancel b reversable on ground and in air, removed 2 extra telecancel frames, restored kb angle of teleburn; dash grab and standing grab animation tweaks to grab lower opponents, jab angle and kb change to restore combo function, ftilt slightly more distjoint and all hitboxes clankable to aid against projectiles, dtilt more range and base knockback, kciks slightly more power; dins fire less decelleration, larger manual and timed out explosions... I think that's
everything I'd want.

What do you mean by no reversible hitbox? Like how Nayru's can spit people out behind it now?
Being able too run around in teleport would actually be amazing.
I'm over here still wanting a longer wave dash, but we can't get everything.

 

[otheusrex]

What do you mean by no reversible hitbox? Like how Nayru's can spit people out behind it now?
Being able too run around in teleport would actually be amazing.
I'm over here still wanting a longer wave dash, but we can't get everything.

like, when you hit with nayrus, it should always send in front instead of sometimes behind. This made it's approach, wavebounce back a lot better because on a read instead of just a few extra damage points, you actually got to start something. Also, cross up nayrus used to be the most reliable way to land a jab or ftilt, which aren't that helpful in neutral compared to a lot of characters

 

[WhiteCrow]

like, when you hit with nayrus, it should always send in front instead of sometimes behind. This made it's approach, wavebounce back a lot better because on a read instead of just a few extra damage points, you actually got to start something. Also, cross up nayrus used to be the most reliable way to land a jab or ftilt, which aren't that helpful in neutral compared to a lot of characters

Gotcha, I was understanding you then. I think Magus explained earlier in this thread that the angle was change because it was un-intuitive and pulled characters to the front of the move unnaturally. I also miss how the old knock back worked but since a PMDT member personally came here to explain why the change was made I doubt it's coming back. I honestly wish is was safer on shield when land cancelled. Zelda doesn't have a lot of great cross ups aside from nair and sometimes LC Nayru's.

 

[Downdraft]

Gotcha, I was understanding you then. I think Magus explained earlier in this thread that the angle was change because it was un-intuitive and pulled characters to the front of the move unnaturally. I also miss how the old knock back worked but since a PMDT member personally came here to explain why the change was made I doubt it's coming back. I honestly wish is was safer on shield when land cancelled. Zelda doesn't have a lot of great cross ups aside from nair and sometimes LC Nayru's.

and as @ BlackMamba mentioned recently, she has few safe on shield options from the ground.

 

[otheusrex]

Gotcha, I was understanding you then. I think Magus explained earlier in this thread that the angle was change because it was un-intuitive and pulled characters to the front of the move unnaturally..

I understand why it seems unintuitive, however, I'm guessing that Magus underestimated the importance of having the back hitboxes send in front of Zelda. It wasn't simply that we used to get rewarded for whiffing the move, the back hitboxes of aerial nayrus had a separate function than the front ones both in landing it and in the followups: At low levels, back hitboxes lead into upsmash better than jab or ftilt, whereas the front hitboxes would lead better into jab and ftilt or maybe dash grab. And at mid levels, this got reversed, with the back hitboxes being better for jab and ftilt and the front hitboxes being better for dash upsmash or dash attack. And for landing the hit, the front hitboxes were better for catching an opponent who was recklessly charging at Zelda, while the back hitboxes worked well in conjunction with jumping towards and then wavebouncing back to bait an approach, or if you ahve a shielded opponent psyched out who's gonna wait to punish oos, you crossed up the shield and either ran from a patient shield drop, or the hitboxes nicked an impatient one and granted you a followup.

So I get that he thought it was important to have the hitboxes function 'intuitively', however, there were more factors to account for when he was considering making that change. Maybe he didn't realize this, or maybe he did and decided to make the change anyways, but the fact is some of her ability to land a hit in neutral (in a ways, that's an approach) and her ability to combo was negatively impacted and I think, and probably many other people think that Zelda's aproach wasn't something that needed to be nerfed

 

[4tlas]

I'd like Nayru's to return to the "always hit forward" because it was strictly better and (more importantly) it would further differentiate the move from nair.

 

[4tlas]

http://smashboards.com/threads/zelda-hitboxes-and-frame-data-3-5.339419/
That thread's creator has links to other 3.5 frame data threads in their signature.

So you did the math, then? I'm too lazy right now, but I'll take a look at it later.

 

[HanAmes]

I really want Zelda's teleport to be faster. Mewtwo's teleport on the other hand is like lightning fast! I'm not saying that Zelda's should be as fast as Mewtwo's, but at least a step up from what she has right now (I at least want her to disappear faster).

 

[Downdraft]

I really want Zelda's teleport to be faster. Mewtwo's teleport on the other hand is like lightning fast! I'm not saying that Zelda's should be as fast as Mewtwo's, but at least a step up from what she has right now (I at least want her to disappear faster).

She definitely could use less startup, but the reappear is fine as is. If it gets much faster, then we'll have to relearn quicker timings for teleport cancelling, which will initially present a major problem when trying to master cancels to snap onto platforms or sweetspot the ledge.

 

[HanAmes]

She definitely could use less startup, but the reappear is fine as is. If it gets much faster, then we'll have to relearn quicker timings for teleport cancelling, which will initially present a major problem when trying to master cancels to snap onto platforms or sweetspot the ledge.

That's definitely a good point. Her teleporting properties can probably stay the same, and I also mentioned her start up because in matches, there are times where I get interrupted whenever I proceed with her burst movement. Eh, probably need more practice, otherwise...

Above all else, it'll be cool if Zelda can have both Teledashing, AND Telecanceling!

 

[justanull]

I don't think the aerial startup on teleport needs changes, but I'd rather see the ending lag slightly lower on ground -> air teleports, if that's possible. It puts her into helpless anyway, so it'd be nice if it was slightly less punishing to miss the timing on teleports to platforms.

 

[Vitriform]

I don't think the aerial startup on teleport needs changes, but I'd rather see the ending lag slightly lower on ground -> air teleports, if that's possible. It puts her into helpless anyway, so it'd be nice if it was slightly less punishing to miss the timing on teleports to platforms.

I agree with this; I think reducing startup on Zelda's teleport would make it too strong (as it stands, nailing Zelda out of her teleport startup is one of the only reliable ways to edgeguard her, and the startup adds a risk-reward element to her Telecancel approaches). Less endlag from ground to air teleports would be a nice way to reduce how extraordinarily punishing it is to miss a Telecancel to a platform (provided that landing detection for it cannot be increased).

 

[Downdraft]

That's a nice argument for reducing endlag on ground-air teleports, yet I still disagree with both your opinions about the startup. The slow startup affects her ability to teleport back to the stage safely once she's been knocked into the air. She has problems escaping combos now, and a faster startup in conjunction with her double jump would help remedy that if Nayru's isn't returned to good form. Regarding edgeguarding, Mewtwo and Meta Knight have better recovery options and their teleports are quicker on startup. Then there are the character that just have quicker recoveries or can recover from just as far as Farore's safer too. Farore's will never be too strong of an option in Project M. It wasn't too strong in 3.02 and look what happened. I wouldn't worry about buffs ever giving Zelda overpowered tools. No, in fact, be more concerned about tools that may be perceived as overpowered or too different being changed to make the game more enjoyable for non-Zelda mains, especially those that are low-mid level players. Zelda's specials and horizontal kill power were nerfed in 3.5. I repeat that I don't see the need to worry about suggestions potentially making her OP because she's been heading down since 2.6b, not up, and there's no indication that she'll rise again.

 

[justanull]

That's a nice argument for reducing endlag on ground-air teleports, yet I still disagree with both your opinions about the startup. The slow startup affects her ability to teleport back to the stage safely once she's been knocked into the air. She has problems escaping combos now, and a faster startup in conjunction with her double jump would help remedy that if Nayru's isn't returned to good form. Regarding edgeguarding, Mewtwo and Meta Knight have better recovery options and their teleports are quicker on startup. Then there are the character that just have quicker recoveries or can recover from just as far as Farore's safer too. Farore's will never be to strong of an option in Project M. It wasn't too strong in 3.02 and look what happened. I wouldn't worry about buffs ever giving Zelda overpowered tools. No, in fact, be more concerned about tools that may be perceived as overpowered or too different being changed to make the game more enjoyable for non-Zelda mains, especially those are low-mid level players. Zelda's specials and horizontal kill power were nerfed in 3.5. I repeat that I don't see the need to worry about suggestions potentially making her OP because she's been heading down since 2.6b, not up, and there's no indication that she'll rise again.

I'd happily sacrifice the aerial startup in exchange for a reduced grounded startup, as I feel that since she has few to no approach options she could use some help getting in.

I played back in 2.6b and through 3.02, so I know the pain of the nerfs too. She's lacking a lot of the ability to control space that defined her character in those versions, and in my opinion made a lot of the now super-negative matchups more even.

 

[HanAmes]

By the way, I'm wondering if we could get a Princess Hilda color swap for Zelda?

 

[Kaeldiar]

By the way, I'm wondering if we could get a Princess Hilda color swap for Zelda?
View attachment 46477

MORE PURPLE!!!

 

[ECHOnce]

By the way, I'm wondering if we could get a Princess Hilda color swap for Zelda?
View attachment 46477

Problem with asking for alts is finding appropriate Sheik alts to match :/

TBH gonna go on a ramble now though...I understand that that's why PMDT took the easy way out of remastered Melee costumes (it is hard to come up with a good pair, and using something that was already established was the safest way of approaching alts for the oddity), and it was a popular choice...but I iwant something more original ): something shiny. I'm the equivalent of a videogame casual, with no ties to gaming outside of competitive smash, so Melee recolors of Zelda...idk. I don't reminisce my childhood of playing OOT from day until night. I don't feel any comfort using my favorite color for my go-to Melee top tier. And as someone with ties to neither of those niches...I certainly don't love it for it's awful color scheming. Don't kill me guys but...hot pink - pale pink - dark purple - green - gold...?

...Yuck.

I'm not against having OOT recolors to fill the geeky hole that must be fed in fans' hearts (I can sympathize; I geek out over non-videogame things aha), but I'm also sure I can't be the only videogame casual yearning for my own shiny M2 armor in many recolors. Charizard's and Marth's and Ike's aren't completely canon, but still drew inspiration from costume designs in their own series. Why can't we get some badass interpretations of the Hyrule Warriors archer Zelda? With the usual team recolors in deep+dark hues of blues and greens and reds over a contrasting white that we all know we'd love? Clad in...maybe even Gunmetal armor instead, of just the usual gold/silver?

Someday when I'm rocking tourney streams, I'm not gonna want to look like a videogame princess from a decades-old game...I'd rather just use one of the vanilla Brawl colors (how often have we seen OOT Zelda on stream? Is it the sort of costume that players want attributed to them like PPMD's green Falco, or Westballz's red Falco, or M@K's black Marth, or whoever else people look up to and idolize? The costume that those players worked hard to earn...to make their own? That they wanted to make their own and hold pride in?) Whenever that day comes, I'm gonna wanna swag out! With the sort of costumes that twitch chat rave-spams in hype for during its reveal just because it looks that sick...and not as just a nod in approval for some reference I won't understand when I go back to rewatch my set's vods, when I'm the one on the darned stream, who put in the time and practice to reach a point where I could rep ma queen ):

fejwaklf;ewjafklewaj
/rambleramble

; ----; maybe throwing in a...idk...robe/cape/scarf of some sort wouldn't hurt either...not that that idea would be influenced by any sort of bias or anything...
>________>
*hides avy*

 

[4tlas]

Problem with asking for alts is finding appropriate Sheik alts to match :/

TBH gonna go on a ramble now though...I understand that that's why PMDT took the easy way out of remastered Melee costumes (it is hard to come up with a good pair, and using something that was already established was the safest way of approaching alts for the oddity), and it was a popular choice...but I iwant something more original ): something shiny. I'm the equivalent of a videogame casual, with no ties to gaming outside of competitive smash, so Melee recolors of Zelda...idk. I don't reminisce my childhood of playing OOT from day until night. I don't feel any comfort using my favorite color for my go-to Melee top tier. And as someone with ties to neither of those niches...I certainly don't love it for it's awful color scheming. Don't kill me guys but...hot pink - pale pink - dark purple - green - gold...?

...Yuck.

I'm not against having OOT recolors to fill the geeky hole that must be fed in fans' hearts (I can sympathize; I geek out over non-videogame things aha), but I'm also sure I can't be the only videogame casual yearning for my own shiny M2 armor in many recolors. Charizard's and Marth's and Ike's aren't completely canon, but still drew inspiration from costume designs in their own series. Why can't we get some badass interpretations of the Hyrule Warriors archer Zelda? With the usual team recolors in deep+dark hues of blues and greens and reds over a contrasting white that we all know we'd love? Clad in...maybe even Gunmetal armor instead, of just the usual gold/silver?

Someday when I'm rocking tourney streams, I'm not gonna want to look like a videogame princess from a decades-old game...I'd rather just use one of the vanilla Brawl colors (how often have we seen OOT Zelda on stream? Is it the sort of costume that players want attributed to them like PPMD's green Falco, or Westballz's red Falco, or M@K's black Marth, or whoever else people look up to and idolize? The costume that those players worked hard to earn...to make their own? That they wanted to make their own and hold pride in?) Whenever that day comes, I'm gonna wanna swag out! With the sort of costumes that twitch chat rave-spams in hype for during its reveal just because it looks that sick...and not as just a nod in approval for some reference I won't understand when I go back to rewatch my set's vods, when I'm the one on the darned stream, who put in the time and practice to reach a point where I could rep ma queen ):

fejwaklf;ewjafklewaj
/rambleramble

; ----; maybe throwing in a...idk...robe/cape/scarf of some sort wouldn't hurt either...not that that idea would be influenced by any sort of bias or anything...
>________>
*hides avy*

I don't know who M@K is, but I hear M2K is famous for his black Marth.

But jokes aside, we have a cool thread somewhere on the Zelda boards for suggestions for new costumes! If you need it linked I'll go find it, but I think you've posted there before?

 

[TimeSmash]

Also, the PM Arts and Alts thread is a great way to have your voice heard.

 

[ECHOnce]

I don't know who M@K is, but I hear M2K is famous for his black Marth.

But jokes aside, we have a cool thread somewhere on the Zelda boards for suggestions for new costumes! If you need it linked I'll go find it, but I think you've posted there before?

Hehe yeah ik, but it didn't seem to be heading anywhere last U checked; it was more of just sharing neat "what ifs"

Also, the PM Arts and Alts thread is a great way to have your voice heard.

I'll check it out sometime!

 

[LupinX]

Those buffs look really good, I hope those buffs make Zelda extra enjoyable and more interactive to the opponent. I think this change is gonna bring more salt to inexperienced players and hopefully won't make Zelda worse or complain like high heaven. People need to learn the matchup and play PATIENT and optimize their punishes. And this is coming from a Snake main with my C4 and Transformation salt lol