Somebody play pokemon with me (Plus maybe tournaments?)

[DC]

Critical hits makes this game random and stealth rock/spikes makes a good chunk of, what would be feasible Pokemon, useless.

And please don't try to say that crits could work for either player because that's like arguing that competitive Smash should turn items on. Competitive Pokemon is almost as much as a joke as competitive Brawl. This is why I retired, too many random variables.

Don't get me wrong tho, it's still fun to play in moderation. I just don't/won't take it seriously.

 

[ChKn]

I'd be up for some Shoddy Tournaments, although I haven't played Pokemon competitively in a while.

 

[CRASHiC]

Critical hits makes this game random and stealth rock/spikes makes a good chunk of, what would be feasible Pokemon, useless.

And please don't try to say that crits could work for either player because that's like arguing that competitive Smash should turn items on. Competitive Pokemon is almost as much as a joke as competitive Brawl. This is why I retired, too many random variables.

Don't get me wrong tho, it's still fun to play in moderation. I just don't/won't take it seriously.

I get you complaint about luck factoring in, but Stealth rock and spikes?
The only issue I have with those moves being the lack of rapid spinners, and having another move that could get rid of them. Personally, I'd like to see whirlwind get rid of them.
If they bother you that bad, just use an anti-lead aerdactyl. He shuts them town pretty thoroughly, so much so Hipoudown isn't a viable starter any longer .

About critical hits

This is one of the more difficult aspects of luck in this game to prepare yourself for. There are two scenarios where critical hits usually make a significant difference on the outcome of the match. The first scenario is when your designated counter is KOed from a critical hit leaving you open to a sweep. For example, Life Orb Gyarados Dragon Dances as you switch in Starmie. Gyarados Earthquakes, it critical hits Starmie, and Starmie dies. You are now left open to a Gyarados sweep. The first way to counteract this effect is to find a better counter. Ask yourself, if my opponent gets a critical hit is it still a good counter; and, more importantly, if that counters goes down is my team open to being swept? Maybe you would have been better utilizing a Celebi rather than a Starmie in attempting to counter Gyarados on your specific team, obviously synergy issues would require you to modify your team to accomodate Celebi but the overarching point still stands. The second way, and superior way, is to have multiple counters or checks to the biggest threats. If something is a large threat, there is good reason to have multiple counters or checks in not only the case of your first counter or check dying to something else; but in the case of a critical hit crippling your first check or counter. There is a reason that Pokémon like Salamence and Scizor are so common on teams. It's because they are powerful Pokémon and these powerful Pokémon nearly require you to have multiple checks for your team to be successful on the whole. It's as simple as that.

The second scenario where critical hits make a difference is in the case of Curse, Calm Mind, or Bulk Up users getting struck by a critical hit. This can be frustrating, but this can be resolved by play style somewhat. Let's say you are running a team with the combination of Choice Band Scizor and Rest-Talk Calm Mind Suicune. As you Calm Mind, your opponent switches in Celebi. What do you do? Many players will attempt to go for the the next Calm Mind knowing Suicune will survive the obvious Grass Knot an attempt to set-up. Why are you setting up against something that can be easily dealt with by your Choice Band Scizor? Switch in your Scizor, deal with the Celebi (it's an example - let's assume you are certain it is not running Hidden Power Fire) via U-Turn or Pursuit accordingly, and then set up your Suicune later on. In short - don't do defensive stat-ups against Pokémon who you are at a disadvantage against without them, in particular when you have a good counter for them already. Let's take another example: Curse Snorlax. Snorlax is sitting at 40% health and a particular Pokémon is going to deal about 19% in damage to your Snorlax. In addition, sandstream is active so your Leftovers recovery is nullified. Rather than setting up another Curse and Resting the next turn, you should be Resting that turn to prevent the chances of a critical hit ruining your Curselax sweep. The situation of defensive stat-up and critical hit scenario can often be resolved by not overzealously playing. Playing conservatively is often the best and simplest way to counteract the effects of the second scenario.

 

[Rayku]

Pokemon is, in fact, very random. I've seen damage multipliers make a genuinely bad player win a match because he survived with 3 HP left (and proceeded to KO'ing that pokemon soonthereafter; it was a Breloom).

Sometimes playing conservatively is impossible. I played for a very long time, and used the same team during that period. I knew the ins and outs of my team quite well, and I knew what pokemon gave me trouble and which ones I could royally **** over.

 

[T3h Albino]

Persian,Smeargle,Azumaril,Charizard,Claydol,Gardenvoir

=S

 

[CRASHiC]

Smeargle is not UU boy.

 

[Rayku]

Smeargle is not UU boy.

Yeah but for some reason Milotic and Slowbro are.

Is Arcanine?

Smogon's tier lists are the stupidest lists I've ever seen in my -life-

Aerodactyl/Swellow should have NEVER been in Underused. I don't know if they're still there or not

Swellow > Weavile.

 

[DC]

Stealth rock and spikes?

There's no argument. Stealth rock/spikes/toxic spikes does nothing but make a large amount of Pokemon (specifically bug types) completely useless. All it does is hinder the meta game.

In the end, if stealth rock/spikes were banned, all it would do would open up hundreds of new possibilities, leads, teams, etc. I can't fathom why it hasn't been banned.

Also I forgot to point out that competitive play doesn't even really exist; it is impossible to be a top player, because it's all too easy to find out a top players team/strategy and create a strategy that beats it. There is no one team that beats everything and thus there can be no one player that beats everyone else, if you can understand what I'm saying.

 

[CRASHiC]

Yet the same people are always on the top of the list.
More viable options, which you argue for earlier in your post about Stealth rock and spikes, does not make it less competitive. It makes it more competitive. There is no best option, and that is a glorious thing. Also, most tournaments will let you switch to your alternative teams in between each match.
As for stealth rock and spikes, its the only truly viable defensive option left. The metagame for Platinum is so offensive its crazy. Get rid of them, and its all offense options till we get the massive defensive boost in HG/SS.

 

[verycoolguy]

Spikes hurts everything that isn't Flying or Levitate equally, so it's not really making certain Pokemon unviable. Spikes takes multiple turns to fully setup and it can be taunted, so it's not exactly over centralizing. <3 Skarmory and Forretress

Stealth Rock is a different story... It's the best move in the game.

 

[CRASHiC]

Yeah but for some reason Milotic and Slowbro are.

Is Arcanine?

Smogon's tier lists are the stupidest lists I've ever seen in my -life-

Aerodactyl/Swellow should have NEVER been in Underused. I don't know if they're still there or not

Swellow > Weavile.

Arcanine is not OU, despite having some of the highest stats in the game.
The tier list is based completly on popularity.
Aerodactyl is no longer UU I believe. Its one of the most used starters.
There are worse pokemon in UU, like Sceptile.

 

[Rayku]

Stealth Rock is a different story... It's the best move in the game.

Stealth Rock
Dark Void
Spore

are the best moves in the game. You're so right lol

What differences are in Heart Gold/Soul Silver that are going to change the metagame from Platinum?

Edit: @CRASHiC: Of course there's worse pokemon in UU. But the fact is that there are GOOD, LEGITIMATE Pokemon in Underused. Pokemon that are serious problems for some pokemon in Overused. Pokemon like Weezing (He always gave me a serious problem). I'll go ahead and look at the list real quick, then I might be able to give a more educated rant

 

[verycoolguy]

If Arcanine would have gained access to a physical Dragon move, he'd definitely be a **** good physical sweeper w/ Extremespeed, Flare Blitz, Natural Gift Grass (Liechi Berry), and Dragon Claw/Outrage. Too bad he's best off using his weaker Special Attack imo because he learns Dragon Pulse.

Spore and Dark Void aren't the best moves because only four Pokemon in total learn those moves, while Stealth Rock is learned by about 1/2 of every Pokemon.
All teams benefit from it. Stealth Rock turns 2HKOs into OHKOs/3HKOs into 2HKOs for offensive teams while defensive stall teams love the entry hazard damage.

 

[Rayku]

Spore and Dark Void aren't the best moves because only four Pokemon in total learn those moves, while Stealth Rock is learned by about 1/2 of every Pokemon.
All teams benefit from it. Stealth Rock turns 2HKOs into OHKOs/3HKOs into 2HKOs for offensive teams while defensive stall teams love the entry hazard damage.

I wasn't going off of who could use the moves in saying what move was best.

Earthquake is definitely up there too.

Dark Void breaks sleep clause in one turn.

Note: I just looked at the UU tier list, and I wrote down the Pokemon that either used to be OU, or DEFINITELY, without a DOUBT, belong in the Borderline tier that, for some reason, has only SEVEN Pokemon in it:

Donphan
Dugtrio
Milotic
Arcanine
Charizard
Weezing
Swellow
Tangrowth
Uxie
Yanmega
Slowbro

I can only imagine the difficult some UU pokemon have with the likes of Uxie, Slowbro, Dugtrio, Donphan, and Charizard. Granted, Stealth Rock ***** Charizard, but he's still nigh unstoppable if he gets set up.

A lot of those pokemon I listed were OU at one point. ****ing YANMEGA is in Underused. I don't know who could stop him very well when he was a force to be reckoned with (could sweep some teams fairly easily) in the OU environment. I think Smogon needs to realize that the Borderline tier still exists.

Also, Raikou is the best Calm Mind sweeper in the game, in terms of sheer speed and power. He doesn't have a reliable recovery move because of his typing, granted, but I have found more success with Raikou than with any other sweeping variant of a pokemon in the game.

I can discuss my personal opinions on which pokemon are dominant for hours @_@

 

[CRASHiC]

Major Changes in HG/SS

a lot of pokemon get block. Namely Venasaur
a lot of pokemon get pain split, namely rotom
A lot of pokemon get super fang, the offensive option of defensive pokemon.
a lot of pokemon got curse, namely Armaldo, who gets a 50 percent plus to his special defense, and can't get hit with critical hits because of his special abliity.
a lot of pokemon get aqua ring, namely wailren and walelord
a lot of pokemon got feather dance, namely piplup
These are just a few changes.

 

[Rayku]

Major Changes in HG/SS

a lot of pokemon get block. Namely Venasaur
a lot of pokemon get pain split, namely rotom
A lot of pokemon get super fang, the offensive option of defensive pokemon.
a lot of pokemon got curse, namely Armaldo, who gets a 50 percent plus to his special defense, and can't get hit with critical hits because of his special abliity.
a lot of pokemon get aqua ring, namely wailren and walelord
a lot of pokemon got feather dance, namely piplup
These are just a few changes.

Ah. So nothing even remotely game-breaking

The only thing I saw there that might be a little more viable is Walrein, who is already an unstoppable wall on Hail teams (paired with a pokemon that knows knock off)

Although Rotom knowing Paint Split makes me scratch my chin...

 

[CRASHiC]

Armaldo becomes the sandstorm version of wailren. 2 curses and he's an unstopable wall.
The same can be said about Empoleon, though no where near to the same extent.

Oh. and Dragonite got extreme speed.
So that will help him out in comparison to Salamance

One change that is just crazy will be Aggron with head smash. OHKOs nearly everything in OU, and even a good deal of Ubers. It just needs some support, namely switching in on someone who can't stop him, like Blissy or using Tailwind, which a lot of pokemon got as well. Tailwind will double his speed making him faster than Aerodactyl.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=248637

there you go.
Not much will change in OU, but in UU and below, things are going to be crazy.

Quagisre got recover :3

 

[Rayku]

Armaldo becomes the sandstorm version of wailren. 2 curses and he's an unstopable wall.
The same can be said about Empoleon, though no where near to the same extent.

Oh. and Dragonite got extreme speed.
So that will help him out in comparison to Salamance

One change that is just crazy will be Aggron with head smash. OHKOs nearly everything in OU, and even a good deal of Ubers. It just needs some support, namely switching in on someone who can't stop him, like Blissy or using Tailwind, which a lot of pokemon got as well. Tailwind will double his speed making him faster than Aerodactyl.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=248637

there you go.
Not much will change in OU, but in UU and below, things are going to be crazy.

Quagisre got recover :3

LOL Quagsire with Recover. That's really funny.

Scizor and Metagross tear Armaldo in -half-, and considering that both of those pokemon are always around, I don't think Armaldo will be a huge threat.

Although I do like that addition.

Aggron with Head Smash is pretty awesome. Just gotta get past that **** Donphan, and any other ground type in the game :D

I've always like Tailwind. If it lasted for 4 turns, not 3, it would be a LOT more viable, though :/

 

[Loto]

So many changes. Lol. I think I'm gonna try my outdated OU team from around a year ago and see what happens. :D

 

[CRASHiC]

What exactly destroys Armaldo on those two?
Cause bullet punch on a choice bander only gets me to about 1/4th damage pre curse.

 

[F Zero]

im gonna sound like the noobiest noob but,

i recently picked up Red version (original) again. It's alot of fun. I saw this topic and was wondering maybe if someone would like to take their Blue version to a local tournament and trade some pokemon with me. I need like,

a bellsprout and evolutions
sandshrew, slash
squirtle
bulbasaur

k thx bai.

 

[Laijin]

really?
Who plays Red or Blue?

You must mean Fire Red and Sapphire Blue eh?

 

[XIF]

So yeah, i'll be online at shoddy battle tonight at like 8 or so, my tag is XIF, just hit me up there and i'll play some matches.

Stealth Rock changes the entire game, and I think the metagame would benefit enormously if it were taken out, because the only pokemon that can avoid damage is clefable, but that's because magic guard is too good.

There are actually very few completely useless pokemon, it's just that some require alot more support than others. The reason why Scizor is so good is that you can stick him on any team and he'd be good. Choice Band or Swords dance bullet punch is just too good of a move to ignore. But I have logs from shoddy where I swept a team with farfetch'd (no really, it was actually quite funny).

 

[CRASHiC]

Back in the days of Saphire, I made fun of how defensive the game was by sweeping teams with a stockpile snorlax with just protect, swallow, stockpile, and toxic.
Thank the lord for the move Taunt.
XIF, post that battle log, I've got to see it.

 

[XIF]

Back in the days of Saphire, I made fun of how defensive the game was by sweeping teams with a stockpile snorlax with just protect, swallow, stockpile, and toxic.
Thank the lord for the move Taunt.
XIF, post that battle log, I've got to see it.

this guy tried to excuse his loss, but we all know whats up

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause, Soul Dew Clause
Koosh sent out Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
XIF sent out Dodrio (lvl 100 Dodrio ?).
Dodrio used Brave Bird.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Machamp lost 100% of its health.
Koosh's Machamp fainted.
Dodrio was hit by recoil!
Dodrio lost 44% of its health.
---
Koosh switched in Togekiss (lvl 100 Togekiss ?).
Dodrio used Brave Bird.
Togekiss lost 63% of its health.
Dodrio was hit by recoil!
Dodrio lost 27% of its health.
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Togekiss's attack missed!
Togekiss's leftovers restored its health a little!
Togekiss restored 6% of its health.
---
Koosh switched in Dusknoir (lvl 100 Dusknoir ?).
Dusknoir is exerting its pressure!
Dodrio used Brave Bird.
Dusknoir lost 43% of its health.
Dodrio was hit by recoil!
Dodrio lost 16% of its health.
Dusknoir's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dusknoir restored 6% of its health.
---
Dodrio used Brave Bird.
Dusknoir lost 43% of its health.
Dodrio was hit by recoil!
Dodrio lost 13% of its health.
XIF's Dodrio fainted.
Dusknoir used Pain Split.
But it failed!
Dusknoir's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dusknoir restored 6% of its health.
---
Koosh: this is my first time using this team
XIF: it's a dodrio
Koosh: ?
XIF switched in Noctowl (lvl 100 Noctowl ?).
Noctowl used Night Shade.
Dusknoir lost 27% of its health.
Koosh's Dusknoir fainted.
---
Koosh switched in Suicune (lvl 100 Suicune).
Suicune is exerting its pressure!
Suicune used Calm Mind.
Suicune's special attack was raised.
Suicune's special defence was raised.
Noctowl used Hypnosis.
Suicune fell asleep!
---
XIF switched in Farfetch'd (lvl 100 Farfetch'd ?).
Suicune is fast asleep!
---
Suicune is fast asleep!
Farfetch'd used Agility.
Farfetch'd's speed was sharply raised.
---
Farfetch'd used Swords Dance.
Farfetch'd's attack was sharply raised.
Suicune is fast asleep!
---
Koosh: just beat me im tired
Farfetch'd used Swords Dance.
Farfetch'd's attack was sharply raised.
Suicune woke up!
Suicune used Calm Mind.
Suicune's special attack was raised.
Suicune's special defence was raised.
---
Farfetch'd used Swords Dance.
Farfetch'd's attack was sharply raised.
Suicune used Hidden Power.
It doesn't affect Farfetch'd...
---
Koosh: i forgot to set my hidden power to electric....................
Farfetch'd used Air Slash.
Suicune lost 6% of its health.
Suicune flinched!
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
Farfetch'd used Air Slash.
Suicune lost 7% of its health.
Suicune used Surf.
Farfetch'd lost 100% of its health.
Farfetch'd hung on using its Focus Sash!
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
Farfetch'd used Flail.
Suicune lost 99% of its health.
Koosh's Suicune fainted.
---
Koosh switched in Togekiss (lvl 100 Togekiss ?).
Farfetch'd used Flail.
Togekiss lost 43% of its health.
Koosh's Togekiss fainted.
---
Koosh switched in Electivire (lvl 100 Electivire ?).
Farfetch'd used Flail.
Electivire lost 100% of its health.
Koosh's Electivire fainted.
---
Koosh switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Farfetch'd used Flail.
Blissey lost 100% of its health.
Koosh's Blissey fainted.
XIF wins!
Koosh has left the room.

 

[T3h Albino]

****...*****.
Xif lets play

 

[verycoolguy]

You guys need to get some Spinnerz on your teams.

 

[T3h Albino]

im making an OU rain team atm

 

[exarch]

So this is an honest question...

Why doesn't the smogon strat even mention barrier for Tentacruel?

Doubling Def gives it 130/120 Def&SpD, making it one heck of a general wall.

 

[XIF]

So i'm back, and on shoddy, so if anyone else is on, hit me up on there.

Barrier with Tentacruel doesnt seem like such a good idea just because there are other better mixed walls, but not anyone is really as good at what Tentacruel does (toxic spikes/rapid spin). You still have dusknoir, cresselia, bronzong, latias, etc for your mixed walls.

As for a tournament, how's tomorrow or wednesday night at like 9 or 10 PM?

 

[DFEAR]

anyway.

i cant decide on a good lead in the current OU metagame i was thinking a metagross or a jolteon. any opinions and recommendations?

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

I use Weavile on my main team. I also find Infernape to be pretty good. I do this because my team centers around Yanmega (lol) and need to stop Stealth Rock.

I also wish SR were banned like others, but not spikes/t-spikes, those are not broken the way that SR are. At the very least, have it so it doesn't do half the life of Yanmega. really 25 percent should be like a max >_<

btw Rayku, Yanmega is being put into BL right now, if you check Smogon forums, he's the only suspect.

I'm on now, testing dumb teams and stuff. I'll be down for a tourney tomorrow. Can help run if need be. What'll it be, just regular OU?



edit : and lol, that picture XD

 

[XIF]

gg's will, but i'mma bounce, kinda got me good the last game, i was rolling lame damage and couldnt get your machamp, and curses i almost had your team with my birds!

 

[Will_]

lol I gotta watch out for that bird team.

gg's xif

If anyone else wants to play I'm on now.

 

[Retroend]

i wanna play, but i'm still building my team up. and the way i spread and use ev's isn't exactly what hardcore players do. and i really hate evs and ivs, but its not like i have a choice on the matter. when i get my team done, you'll see what i mean. i wanna battle for fun though.

 

[Will_]

Ok, what's your name on shoddy?

 

[T3h Albino]

K so i finished my RD team
ill post a RMT in here later
with pics and everything !

 

[Loto]

If anyone wants to play ill dl it right away and use my outdated OU team, someone hit me up. :D

 

[Rayku]

@CRASHiC: I guess you forget that Meteor Mash can increase attack power. Also, I doubt Armaldo can survive two Meteor Mashes from Metagross. Also, Scizor has Swords Dance, which will definitely increase his attack power moreso than Curse will increase Armaldo's defense. I don't think trying to BS me into believing Bullet Punch only does 25% to Armaldo is a good idea, either.

@TRC: I don't venture into Smogon any more than I have to. Yanmega deserves to be Overused and stay that way. He's far too good, and one of the more potent sweepers if your opponent isn't really ready for him.

@XIF: Sweet team, bro.

 

[CRASHiC]

@CRASHiC: I guess you forget that Meteor Mash can increase attack power. Also, I doubt Armaldo can survive two Meteor Mashes from Metagross. Also, Scizor has Swords Dance, which will definitely increase his attack power moreso than Curse will increase Armaldo's defense. I don't think trying to BS me into believing Bullet Punch only does 25% to Armaldo is a good idea, either.

No, I really did set it all up in Netbattle damage calculater. I set the attack to 500 because I didn't fee like seing what his exact attack stat would be, and I picked Bullet Punch, and I picked Armaldo and it only did 1/4th damage from Metagross.
And let's not forget the leftovers I'll have on my Armaldo, making it be like even less damage happened to him.
That's all precurse btw, and given you are going to have to switch in, you are going to give Armaldo one free curse, which he can then curse again, making him laugh off any thing that Scizor could possible throw at him.
Also, most Scizors run a choice band set, so sword dance won't be getting much action.

I forgot to check Meteor Mash, and that does cause some problems, but having to deal with one pokemon isn't so bad off. Steel attacks other than Bullet Punch and Meteor Mash are rare.

Another reason why this set works so well is because Armaldo's typing gets rid of Rock types earth and fighting weakness, which would otherwise greatly hinder any rock pokemon's defensive abilities. The only weakness it has are water types and steel types, however thanks to sandstorm boosting his special defense, that problem is also taken care of.