bubbaking
Smash Hero
You mean as in you can cancel the move before it finishes but if you don't, the hitbox lasts longer? 
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Solar Powered: Ivysaur Q&A/General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir
- Start date
OmegaMuffin
Smash Journeyman
Yes sir. I'm not 100% sure but I've jumped out of it fairly early but when I do allow the move to continue, sometimes my opponent still gets hit
Sudai
Stuff here
DTilt is good as a last ditch edge guard but you'll have better luck going for off stage BAirs 90% of the time.
As for UAir edge guard, it's only even remotely viable as an edge guard when the opponent has nothing left but Up-B to recover and like you just said, it loses to quite a few up-bs, trades with a few, and only beats out a few. The ones it beats it's nice as a surprise edge guard but I wouldn't use it too often. You're much safer going for DAir or BAir and both are much more reliable than the UAir bodyspike.
As for UAir edge guard, it's only even remotely viable as an edge guard when the opponent has nothing left but Up-B to recover and like you just said, it loses to quite a few up-bs, trades with a few, and only beats out a few. The ones it beats it's nice as a surprise edge guard but I wouldn't use it too often. You're much safer going for DAir or BAir and both are much more reliable than the UAir bodyspike.
JOE!
Smash Hero
Uair's downward hit had no IASA from what I could see...
OmegaMuffin
Smash Journeyman
You heard ithere first, folks.
I have no idea what I'm talking about
I know bair is a much better edgeguard option though. That reach is just ridiculous. Even if they DI up and try to recover higher you can go for another bair or seed bomb. Ivysaur is so much fun to play.
Question, what's the best move to use out of shield? I typically use nair or bair depending on the situation or roll if its completely necessary.
A roll or spotdodge, usually.
If you're looking for something to actually hit the opponent with, N-Air is a solid option to catch people and it's the fastest "real" attack by far.
You might be surprised at how effective jumping Neutral-B out of shield can be, too. It's Ivysaur's fastest hitbox out of shield, and the endlag really isn't bad.
If you're looking for something to actually hit the opponent with, N-Air is a solid option to catch people and it's the fastest "real" attack by far.
You might be surprised at how effective jumping Neutral-B out of shield can be, too. It's Ivysaur's fastest hitbox out of shield, and the endlag really isn't bad.
Swann
Smash Journeyman
Really, Neutral B OoS? Gonna have to try that one.
Does it even work at low %s?
Does it even work at low %s?
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Probably not well. The KB seems like it's really weak and the damage is low, but the hitbox looks alright.
A frame 2 hitbox is really darn fast but if you're doing it OoS, you have to make sure to add jump squat frames to it (I have no idea how many Ivy has, but it feels like she has 4 or 5). 12 frames of lag isn't that bad either; it's slightly longer than WD lag.
A frame 2 hitbox is really darn fast but if you're doing it OoS, you have to make sure to add jump squat frames to it (I have no idea how many Ivy has, but it feels like she has 4 or 5). 12 frames of lag isn't that bad either; it's slightly longer than WD lag.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
Sudai
Stuff here
Well you were pretty clearly better than that Ganon so it looked like you got to run around and do a lot of whatever you wanted, but other than that. Purply Ivy da bess. It looked like you liked FAir > UAir as an approach which worked well at mid percents but at lower percents where the UAir just doesn't have enough hitstun you could have done FAir > NAir for better shield pressure, damage, and follow up options.
All the costumes look drastic and weird to me. I don't like any of them because they don't look very natural to me, and the original costume is boring.
I wish I had the "red rose" or "white rose" from Brawl.
I wish I had the "red rose" or "white rose" from Brawl.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
we understand greatness.
Jandlebars
Still fallin'!
I'm not that much of a fan of it, TBH.
I replaced it with a Kraid texture for her. >__>'
Swann
Smash Journeyman
QFT
Stingers I'm liking your Ivy. Can't crit too much though because it seemed like Raph had no idea how to handle you
I know y'all are in VC, hit me up some time if you're playing P:M
[3:41:33 PM] Robert Jackson: He looks like an airplane when he Nairs.
[3:41:41 PM] Shiny Mewtwo: lol
[3:41:44 PM] Shiny Mewtwo: Nairplane?
From now on Ivysaur's Nair is called Nairplane
There can be know arguments for this.
[3:41:41 PM] Shiny Mewtwo: lol
[3:41:44 PM] Shiny Mewtwo: Nairplane?
From now on Ivysaur's Nair is called Nairplane
There can be know arguments for this.
That's already a term for when people rush opponents with repeated N-Airs. Often seen with Fox.
I don't care. It's the term for Ivysaur's Nair now.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
IMO Wario's nair best resembles a nairplane, if any such aircraft exists.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I can see Wario nairplaning people with his nairplane. :3
JOE!
Smash Hero
Reflex was right, tapping Synthesis is better than holding it. However, it's even better to just tap it once.
See the Seeds of Knowledge for more info on that
See the Seeds of Knowledge for more info on that
God with a Wavebird
Smash Apprentice
Ivysaur seems bad when she's above the opponent and in the air in general, so I avoid stages with top platforms because they make it harder to get back onto the ground.
I like big stages (and therefore dislike small stages) cause I like having the room to poke my opponent with spaced aerials and tilts.
I don't own ProjectM though, and I haven't played it enough to remember the stages so I can't give specifics.
-Stay away from small stages with top platforms e.g. Yoshi's Story
-Go for larger stages like e.g. Final Destination and Pokemon Stadium.
And again, I haven't played very much, so everything I said could be stupid and wrong. lol
This is just my 2 cents
I like big stages (and therefore dislike small stages) cause I like having the room to poke my opponent with spaced aerials and tilts.
I don't own ProjectM though, and I haven't played it enough to remember the stages so I can't give specifics.
-Stay away from small stages with top platforms e.g. Yoshi's Story
-Go for larger stages like e.g. Final Destination and Pokemon Stadium.
And again, I haven't played very much, so everything I said could be stupid and wrong. lol
This is just my 2 cents
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Wouldn't high platforms make it easier to get back to the ground? I speak from my experience as a Samus main (Samus has an extremely similar problem), and platforms make it worlds easier for Samus to get back to the ground because they give her so many more options. She can land on the platform and try to run off it, land on it and jump back into the air if you try to poke her, or simply FF through it. I'd much rather have platforms to aid my landing than no platforms at all. Without them, you're left at the mercy of every juggling tactic known to man. IMO, no platforms are only bad when they allow the opponent to easily get around your walling/zoning game (which I don't think they do in Ivy's case) or they allow the opponent to escape from combos he normally wouldn't have been able to (but Ivy has a really good plat TC in the form of usmash, uair, and downB). In any other case, they're usually pretty helpful.
Really practical example (I'm going to use Samus but this applies to Ivy too because of the way her dair works): If I juke out a Marth, Sheik, or spacee who comes after me with a uair on, say, FD or PS (either one, usually), then great, I just avoided eating damage and possibly dying, but now I STILL have to get back down to the ground and each of those chars can just FF after uairing and be back on the ground before me, resetting the juggle situation.
Due to this, there is very little risk involved for my opponent if he just jumps up to attack me after hitting me up in the air. With a platform, at least I can quickly land and shield or something or decide on what else to do WITHOUT utilizing my DJ (this is extremely key to keeping yourself from being juggled 'till kingdom come), and I can also keep my opponent guessing. After landing on the top plat, I can keep running off of it or dropping through it and going back to it until I finally decide to go down, and if my opponent actually comes up after me to give chase, then that's a SUPER easy avenue for me to just go down and actually gain the upper hand.
Tl;dr - Platforms don't hinder your descent, and the juggle game is largely why I dislike FD (that and the power it gives to extremely powerful campers and zoners, like Falco and Wolf). I'd rather have platforms to give me options.
Really practical example (I'm going to use Samus but this applies to Ivy too because of the way her dair works): If I juke out a Marth, Sheik, or spacee who comes after me with a uair on, say, FD or PS (either one, usually), then great, I just avoided eating damage and possibly dying, but now I STILL have to get back down to the ground and each of those chars can just FF after uairing and be back on the ground before me, resetting the juggle situation.
Due to this, there is very little risk involved for my opponent if he just jumps up to attack me after hitting me up in the air. With a platform, at least I can quickly land and shield or something or decide on what else to do WITHOUT utilizing my DJ (this is extremely key to keeping yourself from being juggled 'till kingdom come), and I can also keep my opponent guessing. After landing on the top plat, I can keep running off of it or dropping through it and going back to it until I finally decide to go down, and if my opponent actually comes up after me to give chase, then that's a SUPER easy avenue for me to just go down and actually gain the upper hand.
Tl;dr - Platforms don't hinder your descent, and the juggle game is largely why I dislike FD (that and the power it gives to extremely powerful campers and zoners, like Falco and Wolf). I'd rather have platforms to give me options.
Sudai
Stuff here
Having that extra platform also means we can do UAir combos to higher percents doing more damage and gaining more solar beam charge.
I really like SSE: Jungle as a stage. It's open but has the platforms and it's hhuuggee
I really like SSE: Jungle as a stage. It's open but has the platforms and it's hhuuggee
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Yeah, but there's no way that stage should be legal for singles. Doubles, though, that stage is probably awesome for Ivy.
Doubles, though, that stage is probably awesome for Ivy. 
PB&J
Smash Hero
Ive been playing alot of pm lately
I want to play someone online while skyping,anybody down ?
I want to play someone online while skyping,anybody down ?
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Wait, is this the same PB&J who currently lives on LI in NY?
God with a Wavebird
Smash Apprentice
You might be right. On stages like Dreamland, I think platforms can be used for avoiding getting juggled. But on smaller stages like Yoshi's Story I feel like it makes it worse. Maybe I'm just bad with platforms.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Believe me, on a stage as small as Yoshi's, without platforms, the juggling problem would be even WORSE. It's true that traps can be set involving plats and such and jugglers can also use plats to try to get higher at you, but in the long run, I think platforms help a lot.
Before you write yourself off as bad, I suggest working on your descent mix-ups. Figure out what attacks are good for stalling (dair for Ivy) and what moves can use that ability to do the opposite and surprise your opponent (FF moves and uair for Ivy). Then work on mixing up how you use platforms. Things like WLing off of them, FFing through them, landing and doing stuff, etc. It might also help to go sideways and aim for the ledge or WL outwards off the side plat. YS is small so it's gonna be tough on that stage and how easily you can descend (or punish your opponent's descent) when hit up is actually a strong factor into whether you should CP to that stage or even allow yourself to be CP'd to it.
Before you write yourself off as bad, I suggest working on your descent mix-ups. Figure out what attacks are good for stalling (dair for Ivy) and what moves can use that ability to do the opposite and surprise your opponent (FF moves and uair for Ivy). Then work on mixing up how you use platforms. Things like WLing off of them, FFing through them, landing and doing stuff, etc. It might also help to go sideways and aim for the ledge or WL outwards off the side plat. YS is small so it's gonna be tough on that stage and how easily you can descend (or punish your opponent's descent) when hit up is actually a strong factor into whether you should CP to that stage or even allow yourself to be CP'd to it.
PB&J
Smash Hero
yup,im in queens right now @ my grandmas place but if you can play once this snow clears up let me know
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Ah, lolz, maybe when I come back up to NY. I'm in VA now. The only reason I know that about you is that you played Melee or something with a friend of mine who goes to Stony Brook. We're both Samus mains. I might be able to play with you online sometime after I get 2.5 Wifi on my SD card.
The only reason I know that about you is that you played Melee or something with a friend of mine who goes to Stony Brook. We're both Samus mains. I might be able to play with you online sometime after I get 2.5 Wifi on my SD card.
PB&J
Smash Hero
that would be cool because i want to explore ivy further and some other characters i haveAh, lolz, maybe when I come back up to NY. I'm in VA now.
JOE!
Smash Hero
Been hearing talk even amongst the Ivy mains that she has problems, what are they would you say?
What would be solutions to said problems that would allow her to compete?
What would be solutions to said problems that would allow her to compete?
I feel like we get comboed really hard, like, a lot harder than most other characters. I was playing against RaynEX's Wolf in a friendly at a Melee tournament yesterday (there was going to be a PM side event but it got cancelled due to time constraints) and I got 2 stocked, which is to be expected against a player of his calibre. But mainly during the match, I felt like there was nothing I could do between the time I got hit and when I went offstage.
Another thing is that I think we don't have really good combo potential. We do have some good stuff but most of our damage comes from 2-3 hit strings and juggling traps.
Though we do have good kill options with Dthrow/Uthrow -> Vine Whip/Solarbeam. And we do a good job of preventing landings with our Uair, because of how it sends us right back to the ground so we can quickly get back to chasing them to land another Uair, and Seed Bomb giving us probably among the best vertical control in all of smash.
Another thing is that I think we don't have really good combo potential. We do have some good stuff but most of our damage comes from 2-3 hit strings and juggling traps.
Though we do have good kill options with Dthrow/Uthrow -> Vine Whip/Solarbeam. And we do a good job of preventing landings with our Uair, because of how it sends us right back to the ground so we can quickly get back to chasing them to land another Uair, and Seed Bomb giving us probably among the best vertical control in all of smash.
JOE!
Smash Hero
So, problem 1 is that we are easily comboed, but cannot combo well in return.
The latter isn't too much of a concern compared to the former, what could be done to alleviate being such combo food?
The latter isn't too much of a concern compared to the former, what could be done to alleviate being such combo food?
bubbaking
Smash Hero
For context on JOE's original statement:
I'm trying to figure out whether this character is OK or just really bad (compared to Top Tier). I can barely make her work, but then I have friends who make her look amazing.....sometimes. Iota showed some cool stuff, until I figured out that Ivy doesn't have an answer to shield pressure or being combo'd. Oh yeah, what's up with that? A friend of mine (DuckPimp/Flamingo) who mains Ivy pointed it out and now I always see it. Ivy's combo'd to heck and back once she gets hit!
#Ranting
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Double post, but it's been a couple hours.
I honestly think that Ivy should be made heavier...........by a good deal. With her traits (kinda slow, bad OoS game, easily combo'd, short combos, etc.) and the way she plays (extremely defensive zoner/camper), she seems like she should be heavy, but she surprisingly isn't, which always gets me. Great examples of chars that fit the archetype I'm portraying are Samus, Link, and Snake. They can CC well, if need be, and while they're easily combo'd, they can take quite a few hits, recover, and be back in the game for a while to come. Ivy doesn't have that. She has all the bad (maybe mediocre is a better word) traits, but she's around Mario weight and her recovery is arguably worse than all three of those other characters. Tbh, I think her recovery is fine as is, but I think her weight is causing a huge amount of survivability issues. Changing how easily she's combo'd without directly changing the moves on the rest of the cast would require her falling speed to be tweaked, which I feel would change how she feels completely. I'm not for such a change, as the reason I like Ivy at all now is DUE to how she feels. As such, I honestly think Ivy's weight should be increased, maybe to Snake-level or something.
I honestly think that Ivy should be made heavier...........by a good deal. With her traits (kinda slow, bad OoS game, easily combo'd, short combos, etc.) and the way she plays (extremely defensive zoner/camper), she seems like she should be heavy, but she surprisingly isn't, which always gets me. Great examples of chars that fit the archetype I'm portraying are Samus, Link, and Snake. They can CC well, if need be, and while they're easily combo'd, they can take quite a few hits, recover, and be back in the game for a while to come. Ivy doesn't have that. She has all the bad (maybe mediocre is a better word) traits, but she's around Mario weight and her recovery is arguably worse than all three of those other characters. Tbh, I think her recovery is fine as is, but I think her weight is causing a huge amount of survivability issues. Changing how easily she's combo'd without directly changing the moves on the rest of the cast would require her falling speed to be tweaked, which I feel would change how she feels completely. I'm not for such a change, as the reason I like Ivy at all now is DUE to how she feels. As such, I honestly think Ivy's weight should be increased, maybe to Snake-level or something.
Sudai
Stuff here
I find myself really agreeing with bubbaking. Being able to to CC more would help a LOT especially with our great DTilt that leads in to combos.