Solar Powered: Ivysaur Q&A/General Discussion Thread

[GHNeko]

When you're at high percents and close to a solarbeam?

idk throwing that at.

 

[Swann]

I don't even know where to begin in writing about all the awesome tools Ivy has at her disposal. So I'm just gonna talk.

Her zoning is some of the best I've ever seen. Only talking aerials here: fair, bair, down and side specials can all be used to corral your opponent into a losing position, and then you can pretty much choose when to go in on them after that. Bair gimps like sheik's. Fair hits errywhur. Nair comes out super fast, does good damage, and has a grounded hitbox on the last hit. SH dair->uair->usmash is ****.

Seed bomb is useful in conjunction with razer leaf for forcing people into obnoxious positioning and traps. Her upB sweetspot is the most satisfying thing to land in the entire game and can make your opponent terrified of being above you (including platform camping).

She has great OoS options in nair and instant uair--if the bulb doesn't hit, the landing hitbox will. Ledge options are likewise incredible: LH any aerial, LH razer leaf, drop->seed bomb, tether regrab, LJ fair/nair can even be used to catch people off-guard since the Tournament Winner was made into a viable option.

As for ground moves, ftilt might be one of the most awesome attacks in the game with decent range and ridiculous pressure, although I wish it did more shield damage (even though that would make it totally broken). Jab->ftilt/dtilt->ftilt/dtilt is pretty fun. Speaking of dtilt, holy balls does that move put in work. You can't be predictable with it, but it's got crazy good range and combos into itself... although we'll see how DI-able it turns out to be. Utilt is crazy, too, also comboing into itself and setting up into Ivy's more potent strings.

He's not like Jigglypuff where you can Bair all day.

I know you're talking about this in the context of a healing-centered playstyle, but against a few characters you can totally just space bairs for a majority of the match. Though for the record I agree with you, Ivy really needs to utilize her entire moveset to be as successful as she can be. I don't think a healing-centric Ivy will be completely viable... although I will admit I don't keep track of how much I heal per match, preferring to utilize synthesis to make my opponent approach me over prioritizing the percentage healed.

...the Dairs are more suited to help her horizontal recovery anyway. I am new to this, though. Can you explain a situation where you'd benefit more from just charging? I can't imagine you'd get more than 2 clicks.

Not sure how many clicks you'd get, but Ivy's horizontal recovery is pretty good, and if you get launched up, you may as well charge for a bit. You should (in most situations) have your midair jump, so just charge. If you see them wanting to jump out, or if they've jumped out in the past, or if they're playing Falcon, cancel it a bit early and just get back.


But yeah, she's pretty good. I think she's got some trouble against heavy rushdown, but that will remain to be seen. After all, it's not even been three days.

 

[Life]

Finally got to play 2.5 today. Naturally, tried Ivy first as that's the character I was most hyped for. I play basically the way Neko does: try to land a lot of heals.

Some random observations:

1. Vertical kills are the best. The star KO animation is long enough for a pretty significant Synthesis heal, and even if you don't get the vertical kill, Ivy's juggling game puts on a pretty decent amount of damage.
2. Don't worry too much about saving Solarbeam. If your opponent knows you're willing to blow a Solarbeam on them before kill percents, they'll worry about avoiding it, which you can use to your advantage. Or if they don't, that's a pretty big chunk of easy damage. (And you can get back to healing with Synthesis. )
3. Ivy does seem to get combo'd easily. Nair is probably the best answer.
4. You'd be surprised where you can fit in a single tick of Synthesis. Experiment.

(How am I doing?)

 

[Yeerk]

Oh, I wasn't against constant Solarbeam charging, but I wouldn't throw away recovering to the stage just to get those last few ticks. And I definitely do synthesize when I can. Including even camping the edge for a while to drop down for 2-3 ticks at a time. Which can be dangerous against certain characters, but also dangerous for them, since Ivy gimps very well.

 

[Yeerk]

Also, I've been experimenting with edgeguarding, as it's an important thing for this character. Granted, I've mostly had lvl 9's to play, but they have potential.

Dsmash is obviously very good for lower recoveries (as Dng3 said), but not against the char's with tethers. ZSS, Link, Ivysaur, etc. Dairs are also good, but they don't have the surprise factor of a quick Uair meteor. I don't think it would be the go-to edgeguard, but it's risk has high reward. Throwing out seed bombs can't hurt either, for high and low.

 

[Sudai]

I like to toss a seed bomb to prevent them from hugging the stage to recover and just slapping them with a BAir if they're coming low.

 

[B.W.]

What are the odds of anyone being able to get Ivysaur hitboxes and frame data? <3

If no one does it before me, I plan on getting this info after I'm done with Link.

 

[JOE!]

Tossing this out: Ivysaur hates Norfair

 

[GHNeko]

I have to say I disagree with that notion.

Ivy has a lot of control on that stage.

 

[GMaster171]

My friend wants to main Ivysaur, and hes fairly decent with him (he gets my main down to 2 stocks) but hes not the best with projectile placement, which seems to be a fair part of Ivy's gameplay against some characters.

Really just need some recommendations or interesting spots to use seedbomb or razor leaf, i feel if he used these better (along with Turnips for peach, and arrows for Pit) he might be able to beat me, but atm he relies on trying to get around my defense, or punish my mistakes, which is easy to beat out.

thoughts? I dont have much to contribute other than it seems razor leaf locks you in shield (i missed multiple rolls/WDOOS cause of the shield stun)

 

[JOE!]

I have to say I disagree with that notion.

Ivy has a lot of control on that stage.

Perhaps it's just my playstyle with her then, I enjoy having a good deal of room for seed bombs above me as I mainly stay grounded, and the huge platform keeping me from having seed bombs touch down near Ivy makes me sad.

Also random stuff:

Ivy's tipper Vine Whip is exactly on the edge of the right platform on Dreamland when standing before the flowers in the foreground. Can be useful for practicing the range of it.

Dsmash's backwards hit seems better than the forward?

From the moment a character is KO'ed, you can heal 5 ticks worth of synthesis before they can move from the respawn platform.

 

[Kellz]

Does Ivy's Dair actually help recovery at all? It's hard to tell.

Edit: I'm an idiot who didn't read through the thread. I apologize.

 

[Sudai]

Yes, yes it does.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Trying to figure out what can lead into Solarbeam. Sometimes full hit nair on characters at certain percents sends them on a 45 degree trajectory but it doesn't really feel guaranteed. Thoughts?

 

[GHNeko]

Nothing really leads into Solarbeam when they DI properly. If things did, that'd be really silly. lol.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Because of its weird angle it's really only a tech chase option for platforms and even then they're obviously not going to tech chase to the side you want them to lol.

 

[GHNeko]

You jsut gotta pay attention to their DI. Also, condition them to avoid Solarbeam then when they react to what they think is going to be a solar beam, just hit them with it.

That usually how I get most of my Solarbeam kills, reads from conditioning my opponent to respect and fear the Solarbeam.

it's easiest ot hit with when they've already expended their DJ.

 

[GunBlaze]

Vine whip sweetspot to Solarbeam, anybody? That thing makes someone REALLY salty.

 

[Sudai]

When floaties DI all the way away from you after a UAir at mid percents you can get a Solar Beam in. Do a lot of vertical juggling and it'll get them to DI that way. Only thing I noticed that leads in to it but I haven't played that much and what I have was with pretty bad players.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Vine whip is dtilt right?

 

[Sudai]

Vine Whip is up-b

 

[iRobinhoood]

Haven't used it much for anything but recovery so far. I'll see what I can do with it tonight at some friendlies.

 

[GHNeko]

vine whip is ivy's second strongest ko move.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I just heard it has tipper properties??? IVY WHY YOU KNOW S-TIER???

 

[Sudai]

and when you tip with it, it feels soooooo good. They gave it a nice SFX. :]

 

[iRobinhoood]

OMG super hyped to play some Project M tonight at friends house.

 

[PB&J]

First of all I love ivysaur.

I wish you can do three razor leaves before hitting the ground. I think it will make ivy so much better.

All they will have to do is make it less lag after each one is thrown and faster.

I read like every post in this thread and ummm. I just want to post some vids of me playing falcon because i think ivy can beat up falcon too and its not a bad match up.

I played with archangel the pit player and i would say that mu is about even or slightly in pits favor but i think its fine. You just have to use all your tools.

The neko method of using healing alot: I never really tried it that much but I think most of us ivy's should try to not use the solar beam as much while we are practicing for we dont always rely on it.

I think ivy can be really tapped into. I use nair alot with ivy and jab,ftil,and dtilt.

I also want to say one more thing because I seen "Blackgold" say something.

Ivysaur's grab imo has an amazing grab. Most of her moves combo into grab and i also never heard any of you talking about the d throw combos.

Im going to apex this week, so ill try to get some matches recorded of Wizzy and I and maybe some others as well.

subscribe to my channel please for some future ivysaur love http://www.youtube.com/user/pbnj2323?feature=mhee

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I actually really like Dthrow into Vine Whip at low/mid/high percents depending on the weight of the opponent's character

Also Dthrow into Usmash/Uair on some characters works depending on DI. and Uthrow Usmash or Uthrow Techchase on FFers is good too.

 

[WhyNotTurtles?]

Suggestions for metagame

This is just speculation but Solar Beam does not seem as useful as you might think as the damage is the same as Lucario's Aura Bomb with comparable knockback. Solar Beam serves as a useful edgeguard (like Pikachu's Thunder except diagonal) AND for making a last ditch effort to deal some damage because it goes through stages. If Ivysaur is deep and far from the ledge he can shoot a beam that pierces the entire map, just like sniping someone.

Also Ivysaur's vine attacks (like fair and bair) are easily punishable at low percentages because they are weak and have little knockback. Instead of approaching, the best option is to zone using razor leaf and wait for the opponent to approach and punish with one of Ivysaur's vertical attacks, which do significantly more damage.

 

[Dng3]

Also Ivysaur's vine attacks (like fair and bair) are easily punishable at low percentages because they are weak and have little knockback. Instead of approaching, the best option is to zone using razor leaf and wait for the opponent to approach and punish with one of Ivysaur's vertical attacks, which do significantly more damage.

Agreed on the Bair and Fair bit. They really do shine though during mid-high percentages.

 

[DuckPimp]

Thoughts on Ivysaur from playing her for the first time last night:

-Cute as hell

 

[Deleted member]

I love playing as Ivysaur. I really do. He's a ton of fun. Solarbeam is awesome. Seed Bomb is awesome. Healing is awesome. The sound when you sweetspot a Vine Whip is so satisfying. And don't even get me started on the new colors swaps (red is the best). Unfortunately, I don't think he's going to hold up very well over time if left as he currently is. He does a decent enough job of keeping the opponent out, but once they get in I feel like he gets tossed around. Fast characters are really tough imo - Fox, Sheik, Captain Falcon. Pit is also pretty fast, has the Mirror Shield, and Razor Leaf can be a bit laggy while he's got those damn arrows. Ivysaur just can't seem to do enough quickly enough to keep them out, and as I said, he doesn't fare well once they get in. His grab is also kinda crappy, and I agree with what WhyNotTurtles/Dng3 said - F-air and B-air are very useful at mid-high percents, but they can be risky to use at lower percents.

To me, Ivysaur feels like Melee Samus but with less survivability despite the healing (taking into consideration that he's fairly light and floaty and the fact that the healing doesn't happen too quickly, it doesn't seem to be all that significant a lot of the time.)

Anyway, just my initial impression. Feel free to critique it.

 

[GHNeko]

Healing is actually pretty effective if you focus on healing as much as possible.

The key imo, is learning when to heal and how to squeeze the most out of every chance you get without ruining momentum.

Then on top of that, you need to threaten with Solarbeam and use it as effectively as frequently as possible, as a bulk of healing you can get done is with Synthesis.

And lastly, being able to properly control the match and condition your opponent so that you can quickly regain your lost momentum and scare them into making mistakes so you can heal more.

 

[ProfPeanut]

I don't suppose Project M's Ivysaur was inspired by any other kits for Grass-type dinosaurs, was it? Because the whole is a pretty well-executed piece, I'd say, yet the concept is somewhat unorthodox.

 

[the melon!!!!!]

I'm having WAAAAY too much fun with this character, he's really good with getting all sorts of different combos. Not only that, but Uthrow to seed bomb at mid to high damage is a great mindgame to use when trying to set up either solarbeam or vinewhip sweespot, it makes them want to DI to the side, allowing an easy setup for either a solarbeam, vine whip, or just another fair.

Also I adore the speed and range on his dtilt, great for trying the poke after fair/bair pressure.

 

[Yeerk]

What GHNeko said.

 

[JOE!]

Hmm, anybody have any success linking jab to anything?

Also, ftilt to dsmash can be legit at times I've found lol

 

[Sudai]

First hit jab, dtilt seems to link some times but only when they're right on you.

 

[G13_Flux]

anybody found any uses for uptilt? in all honesty, any time that i could use up tilt, i would rather just use up smash. its way more rewarding, is safer due to disjoint, and it heals you a fair amount and charges solar beam a large amount. other than this, i find ivysaurs tilts to be really really good. her ftilt cannot be CCed, which is just wonderful defensively. her dtilt has a alot of range, is quick, and sets up into many things like smash attacks (especially upsmash), aerials, and really most of ivysaurs moves in general. her edge guarding is awesome, with a semi spike in her dsmash, two meteors in dair and the later hit of uair, solar beam, razor leaf, and her ranged aerials like bair. u can probably even make some uses out of seed bomb for gimping in regards to timing purposes and possibly follow ups. her defensive game in general is really good too, with a great nair OOS and all her healing and large hitboxes. the only major issue i can see with ivysaur is her overall combo game. she is really limited to juglling with uairs and mixing in some up smashes, dairs, and dtilts. but its certainly nothing spectacular when it comes to damage racking. and i can see that hurting her a bit.

overall i think ivysaur is beast though. i just love the gameplay in general with her. i must say however, that if THIS ivysaur was in vbrawl, she would be top tier hands down.

 

[GHNeko]

Utilt platform pokes directly above him. Something that none of his other moves can do unless you jump lol.

It also shifts his hurtbox waaay up, so you can do some really jank dodges with it. It also has more vertical range, less start up and cooldown, and combos.

It's a good move lool.