Social Social Thread - Talk About Anything (You Are Allowed to Talk About)!

[Battlecow]

Competitive means tournaments. It doesn't mean seriouslies and it never has. 12CB tourneys are interesting side events, but they're not the definitive "best-in-the-world" thing.

I know we're our own community and not beholden to melee or to the FGC for our standards, but no competitive game should have a definition of "best" that goes "Eh well this kind of matters but this kind of matters too, no way to really test them but do a bunch of matches and we'll probably have an idea." No one ever said Peek shouldn't be A-tier because he only plays his main.

 

[TANK64]

I was talking about on console lol.

and yes, Conker is 2gud.

 

[The Star King]

Tournaments have restrictions such as time constraints. Perhaps 12 character battles might be considered by some people to be better tests of skill, but using them in tournaments would take too long. My point is that tournament standards are made not only to create a fair test of skill, but to make running tournaments practical - otherwise Round Robins would be tournament standard.

I'll admit I'm a bit biased for 12CBs though because they make me feel like putting effort into the entire cast wasn't a waste of time/stroke my ego

 

[asianaussie]

Everyone who plays 64 well can play every character somewhat, so I'm more for 12CB too.

Armada's analogy would lend itself to deciding the best player for each position, or in this case, the best player for each main, eg. m2k's Sheik (?), his Peach, etc. It does not have a huge hand in deciding the best 'football player'.

The fact that Isai eschews his best characters (I dunno his BEST might be DK or something now) for worse ones and still gets to top bracket placings shows he is a very SOLID player.

 

[Battlecow]

No no no no no

I feel strongly about this. When people say "I'm the best at 64" other guys say "Oh yeah? Who do you play?" If they say "everyone," that's cool, but if person B's DK can beat your everyone person B is better. That's how it's always worked, but you guys want to toss away the obvious because that way it makes more sense for you to have learned all the characters you did.

 

[The Star King]

If we "want to toss away the obvious because that way it makes more sense for you to have learned all the characters you did", you oppose the alternative because your secondaries suck

I already admitted to what you said though so I guess I'm in a rut. Well eff

 

[Battlecow]

My secondaries are OK

my tertiaries are utter and complete scrotum tho

And my quaternaries are so bad it kind of warps the universe.

 

[The Star King]

I guess I meant non-main characters

For some reason I find the term "tertiary" and further repulsive when it comes to character discussion

 

[SSBPete]

My cousin, brother and I are too good at conkers. We used to play endlessly

 

[ballin4life]

Competitive means tournaments. It doesn't mean seriouslies and it never has. 12CB tourneys are interesting side events, but they're not the definitive "best-in-the-world" thing.

I know we're our own community and not beholden to melee or to the FGC for our standards, but no competitive game should have a definition of "best" that goes "Eh well this kind of matters but this kind of matters too, no way to really test them but do a bunch of matches and we'll probably have an idea." No one ever said Peek shouldn't be A-tier because he only plays his main.

the current tournament rules are entirely arbitrary and you could envision a set of tournament rules where matches are all 12 char or 3 char battles.

who would win a 12 char battle tourney vs who would win a 1 char battle tourney are different questions but are equally valid definitions of "best" player.

that said, considering that 1 char battles are the current standard ruleset you'd assume that's what people mean when they say best.

 

[Lovage]

considering there's like zero cross-pollination of japanese and north american players, i think it's pretty obvious we have no idea who's the best. there's a short list, definitely, but the WORLDWIDE TITLE can't be given out like that if there's a whole world of 64 players on the other side of the ocean that no one gets to play.

 

[The Star King]

But Japan has been visited by Isai (who we will agree is NA's best representative), and he dominated really hard, more so than in Peru. I guess you could argue it was a long time ago, but meh, that's quite a gap to bridge. Anyways, I think I recall Isai mentioning going to Japan for the last time so maybe we'll get to see him vs Japan again.

 

[asianaussie]

isai cheated

he DI'd in (J), cheater

 

[Battlecow]

Isai went to Japan

It wasn't close. And this is in their (very different) version, etc. etc.

Things have changed, but he played some of the guys who are still at the top and didn't have trouble.

 

[SSBPete]

"smartest" is not well defined at all and how the hell are you supposed to measure anything about people that lived hundreds (or thousands in the case of Aristotle) years ago?

I agree that smartest is not well defined either, I was merely working off the original premise of IQ, which is actually held by a women. Psychologists have used methods of predicting IQ but needless to say there are flaws in that. Da Vinci obviously never took an IQ test so to say his the smartest based on IQ is absurd. My first post probably sounded stupid because I cbf typing extensively on something this thread isn't really concerned about.

What I'm trying to say is, da vanci isn't the epitome of intelligence, whereas isai IS the epitome of smash.

This may shock you but we know a hell of a lot about people who lived hundreds/thousands of years ago. Literature, ideas and inventions have survived through the ages.

 

[ballin4life]

This may shock you but we know a hell of a lot about people who lived hundreds/thousands of years ago. Literature, ideas and inventions have survived through the ages.

it may shock you to know that i never claimed otherwise.

 

[asianaussie]

it may shock you to know that you're starting another stupid irrelevant debate nobody else cares about

you too, pete

'cheeseball341+' viewing the thread pisses me off

 

[rawrimamonster]

When he actually is SERIOUS about winning (or angry which I think I only saw once cuz of input delay lol), comparing available talent in the whole community to him its like a 90/10 matchup in his favor depending on the player, and also depending on the player might only lose 2-3 stocks. Hes not a magician he just knows the matchups, situations, stages and all abuses thereof better. Hes devoted the time to making himself more situationaly knowledgeable of character potential per the given moment.

this is just my outside observation.

 

[RickySSB]

I don't dominate SSB at all. I'm just a SOLID player.

What SOLID means to you?
You really dominate this game more that other people here, you are a Smash Bros 64 veteran.
You can't deny that.

 

[sirlaser]

@Off topic:

"smartest" is not well defined at all and how the hell are you supposed to measure anything about people that lived hundreds (or thousands in the case of Aristotle) years ago?

Basically, I've done research on the research on geniuses (pretty Meta, right?), and what they use to extrapolate the intelligence of the deceased was by their accomplishments. For example, if you can be considered a master in all of the fields below:

Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci...was an Italian Renaissance polymath: painter, sculptor, architect, musician, scientist, mathematician, engineer, inventor, anatomist, geologist, cartographer, botanist, and writer...

chances are you have to be inhumanly intelligent to even begin to pursue these interests listed above, not to mention having done peerless work in all of these fields to showcase your skills/talent (case(s) in point: the Mona Lisa, map of Imola created for Cesare Borgia; the Last Supper; Vitruvian Man).

i'm going refute the that da vinci was the smartest person who ever lived
i've done some research on this before and apparently aristotle and newton were about his equal, if not smarter

more to the point, isai is unfathomably good

interesting thread, i liked the read

Aristotle and Newton were "scientists" (to say even that is ridiculous in it's own right, for it implies they were learned in every field of science at the time), and if we're extrapolating intelligence based on accomplishments they've not done even half of what da Vinci has (see the quote from Wikipedia).
Thanks for your last comment, BTW, it really motivates people to think and come up with interesting stuff.
//End Off Topic//

@On topic:
So there are arguments on a few metrics for measuring "how good" someone is @ 64, I count:
1. Tournament performance.
2. 12 Character battle performance.
3. 1v1 Sets, not in tournament.
Normally, like Armada's analogy to soccer, a player's worth is only measured on a few attributes (points per game, etc.; you never see Michael Jordan lead in assists/game). But for Isai, he's so good (i.e. #1) in all of the metrics listed above that the question is not whether he's the best but by how much does he surpass everyone else.

This was my original question and point for discussion. IMO no one doubts Isai's place as #1, but by how much does he differentiate himself from the next best player? From the average level of competitive players? From the casual player?

Can each one of us say, "I've never seen anyone dominate any other field, whether it be intellectual or athletic, at any point in history, to the extent that Isai has dominated SSB64." with absolute conviction? Or is he not that good and we have to come up with some other description for his skills?

 

[SheerMadness]

I agree with former ssb64 troll Lovage.

Impossible to know as we don't have huge tourneys that draw most of the best players from around the world like melee does.

Who would have thought some random console pikachu player from Peru could beat Isai's pikachu fairly consistently?

but by how much does he differentiate himself from the next best player? From the average level of competitive players? From the casual player?

Well we don't know who the next best player is. But there are people who can beat him fairly consistently, so not much there (it is a really small number of people though).

Average competitive players will get consistently 5 stocked. Casual players aren't even worth talking about.

 

[RickySSB]

Anybody here watch American Idol?

 

[The Star King]

I watched a couple of seasons but that show invokes a rage in me like no other

 

[clubbadubba]

Honestly da vinci has always seemed like a scrub to me, cuz half his **** is stupid and didn't work or make sense. Newton on the other hand was a g and made theories of gravity, motion, and invented calculus. As an engineer, newton is the guy we still follow, and da vinci is the guy we laugh at cuz he was a ******* and his inventions were weird.

Again, the metric used to determine best is highly subjective/arbitrary.

Can't think of anyone dominating like isai in anything else. How uncomfortable is isai with everyone talkin about how good he is lol? Love you isai!

 

[SSBPete]

nvm

10char

 

[TANK64]

Hey Aussies, do you know of a store called Cotton On?

There's one by where I live now, and they have some pretty cool stuff sometimes. Different stuff. The manager told me they were from Australia and STUFF. Cool store.

InB4CottonOnIsMainsteamLameInAustralia

On a side note, I am a GOD at Conker's .

 

[SSBPete]

@Off topic:

chances are you have to be inhumanly intelligent to even begin to pursue these interests listed above, not to mention having done peerless work in all of these fields to showcase your skills/talent (case(s) in point: the Mona Lisa, map of Imola created for Cesare Borgia; the Last Supper; Vitruvian Man).

ok going off wikipedia:

Aristotle was a Greek philosopher and polymath. His writings cover many subjects, including physics, metaphysics, poetry, theater, music, logic, rhetoric, linguistics, politics, government, ethics, biology, and zoology.

to use your argument, exceeding in all these subjects would make him inhumanly intelligent. surprise surprise, he did exceed in all these subjects with a lot of his work still shaping the fundementals of modern civilisation

as per usual, clubba is right, newton was a g

 

[Morin0]

Isai has pretty much travelled the world and come home victorious every time. That in itself is damn impressive and indicative of his skill.

You know the guy dominates when there's not a single person you can even fathom who'd beat him. In most sports and whatnot, there's always the debate of that one guy across the world who could possibly beat "the best". Javi was one of those guys in Melee (and now Dark? Don't really keep up with Melee), and Gerson & co. were those guys in SSB64. But Isai went and proved himself so there's really nobody left to post a challenge at this point.

I've never seen a person shut down everybody's opinions of "the greatest" like Isai has.

^ Except for that one guy that kept calling Isai a CITY BOY.

LOL.

 

[Battlecow]

Yeah, I'd feel comfortable saying that Isai dominates harder than anyone else in any "scene" of any reasonable size that I'm familiar with.

 

[Battlecow]

My hat was made by an australian company

Fantastic hat, only $130 but better (in terms of comfort, durability, style) than other fedora available for less than a $700, according to most of the denizens of my hat forum.

Akubra Sydney. Real ****.

 

[kys]

Please stop referencing Armada's analogy. It's terrible.

Lol @ "former troll Lovage". Too good.

 

[kys]

$130 for a hat? Is it made of gold? ****.

Conker is one of those games I've owned forever but never got around to playing it. Is it worth it?

 

[TANK64]

Conker is one of those games I've owned forever but never got around to playing it. Is it worth it?

W.

T.

F.




Yes bro.

Yes, it's worth it.

 

[asianaussie]

Hey Aussies, do you know of a store called Cotton On?

There's one by where I live now, and they have some pretty cool stuff sometimes. Different stuff. The manager told me they were from Australia and STUFF. Cool store.

InB4CottonOnIsMainsteamLameInAustralia

On a side note, I am a GOD at Conker's .

cotton on is the place highschool girls go when they're too lazy to actually browse stuff lol

it's pretty mainstream

My hat was made by an australian company

Fantastic hat, only $130 but better (in terms of comfort, durability, style) than other fedora available for less than a $700, according to most of the denizens of my hat forum.

Akubra Sydney. Real ****.

this is where it's at

 

[TANK64]

Dang, I feel less cool now. Although I'm kind of like a highschool girl so it's fine.

/wut

Also, I just realized I'll probably never forgive Ciaza for this Cheeseball situation.

 

[asianaussie]

think about how i feel, dammit

he doesn't even like the name and is irked about it, which is the sole good thing that came from this situation

 

[ciaza]

nice star king battlecow, i also have an akubra hat. made of real rabbit. it's so awesome

aa you have no one to blame but yourself. if you didn't change your swf password none of this would've happened =p

 

[asianaussie]

battlecow was the one who has that avy, noob

and no, i can definitely and will definitely blame you for this, also for

a) being a dirk
b) being a ****
c) being a homo
d) having no S2
e) being born
f) i hope you drown in a pool of day-old vegemite

crikey

 

[ciaza]

they may as well be the same person to me at this point

relaaaaaaaax, what is the worst dean can do with your name? if you hate it so much buy premium for dean and have him get a name change lol

also: ****o to kursao. best vn ever:

Spoiler

 

[asianaussie]

there is a damn good reason i avoided that vn, and it wasn't just the name

why do you have time to play that but not f/sn or better things

my copy of fate/extra also arrived today, \o/