Social Social Thread - Talk About Anything (You Are Allowed to Talk About)!

[StretchNutz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK5TQSKmS3o&t=01m54s

That turns me on.

 

[sharksquail]

liked by ballin on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rZEWUCzaDE&feature=feedlik
I highly disapprove of this. everyone knows there is only one true home run king, and his name is Henry Aaron.

 

[DMoogle]

FYI blended vegetables are not NEARLY as healthy as normal vegetables.

Basically for health it's

raw>>>cooked>>>>>>>>blended

blended is still probably healthier than most foods though I guess


Random nutrition tip since I'm taking nutrition in school right now: If you're going to eat something high in carbohydrates, eat a bunch of (raw) coarse vegetables with it to slow down your digestion. This will prevent your blood sugar from spiking.

Random tip #2: POTATOES ARE NOT A VEGETABLE. THEY ARE A STARCH.

Good to know blending destroys the nutrients. Sucks, though.

Yes, I know what determinism states. There's just no reason to assume that having all that knowledge would allow you to make predictions

Sure there is, if randomness doesn't exist, which I don't believe it does. If there is no such thing as true randomness, then everything is technically predictable.

I'm pretty sure it's impossible to prove whether randomness exists or not though.

 

[ballin4life]

liked by ballin on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rZEWUCzaDE&feature=feedlik
I highly disapprove of this. everyone knows there is only one true home run king, and his name is Henry Aaron.

Hmm, let me go check baseball-reference.com

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/HR_career.shtml

1. Barry Bonds 762
2. Hank Aaron 755

Looks like you're wrong.

Unless the home run king is defined by single season, so let's check that one:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/HR_season.shtml

1. Barry Bonds 73

So looks like it's Barry Bonds either way.

 

[sharksquail]

Barry Bonds is also a cheater, and doesn't deserve any record that he holds. 755 for life.

 

[StretchNutz]

Hammerin' Hank was a man of skill and character. Barry Bonds... just a self-serving bag of douche. And he lied to a grand jury.

But I will say that it is mad stupid that congress is involved in major league baseball in any way whatsoever. What a waste of taxpayer dollars.

 

[sharksquail]

Hammerin' Hank was a man of skill and character. Barry Bonds... just a self-serving bag of douche. And he lied to a grand jury.

I will go on the record as saying that I don't like Barry Bonds, but he was a great baseball player. Being able to see and hit a baseball like that is not something you can get from steroids. he was great before steroids, and a monster after, but he is still a cheater.

But I will say that it is mad stupid that congress is involved in major league baseball in any way whatsoever. What a waste of taxpayer dollars.

I heard they were spending like 12.5 mill a day on the trial. Sometimes i hate our gov so much.

 

[ballin4life]

Barry Bonds is also a cheater, and doesn't deserve any record that he holds. 755 for life.

How is Barry Bonds a cheater?

Hammerin' Hank was a man of skill and character. Barry Bonds... just a self-serving bag of douche. And he lied to a grand jury.

But I will say that it is mad stupid that congress is involved in major league baseball in any way whatsoever. What a waste of taxpayer dollars.

Barry Bonds is allegedly not a very nice person. So what? What does that have to do with him as a baseball player? (Also, Barry Bonds is clearly a man of more skill at baseball than Hank Aaron).

By the way, he was NOT CONVICTED of lying to a grand jury.

But EVEN IF he did lie to a grand jury, what does that have to do with him as a baseball player?

I will go on the record as saying that I don't like Barry Bonds, but he was a great baseball player. Being able to see and hit a baseball like that is not something you can get from steroids. he was great before steroids, and a monster after, but he is still a cheater.



I heard they were spending like 12.5 mill a day on the trial. Sometimes i hate our gov so much.

How is Barry Bonds a cheater?

Please define cheater.

 

[sharksquail]

Cheater: someone who gains an unfair advantage in a game by breaking the rules. In this case Barry Bonds taking HGH.

Also how is Barry bonds a man of more baseball skill than Hank Arron. Hank Arron is the all time MLB RBI leader, mabye the most important stat in terms of offense in baseball.

 

[ballin4life]

Cheater: someone who gains an unfair advantage in a game by breaking the rules. In this case Barry Bonds taking HGH.

LOL @ HGH being your example, since that's the substance with the least proof that Bonds actually took it.

Anyway, MLB didn't adopt a steroid policy until 2004 (when coincidentally Bonds had his best season), so there's no way Bonds broke any rules. So by your own definition, Bonds did not cheat.

Also how is Barry bonds a man of more baseball skill than Hank Arron. Hank Arron is the all time MLB RBI leader, mabye the most important stat in terms of offense in baseball.

LOL @ RBIs being the most important stat. RBIs are very much a function of how good the rest of your team is, since a better team means you get more chances with runners on. RBIs are considered pretty worthless in determining how good a player is, since there are metrics available that don't rely on how good the rest of your team is.

Try OBP, or SLG at least. And really, use an advanced stat like WAR or OPS+ or Win Shares or something.

Bonds was MUCH better at baseball than Hank Aaron, although Aaron is still a top 10 player of all time.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

If Bonds weren't letting Greg Anderson go to jail for him, he would've been convicted on every count, and I can almost guarantee that.

Bonds took steroids, whether or not it was before 2004 the fact remains that it gives an unfair advantage.

Also are you saying that Bonds had more actual talent than Hank Aaron? Or that he had better stats? Because those are two completely different things.

Personally, hope he gets the max for Obstruction and is never let into the Hall.

 

[sharksquail]

Ok this is going to be my last post on the subject, because i don't think this is going to go anywhere.

1. just because there was no steroid policy until 2004 doesn't mean that it's not cheating to take performance enhancing drugs. I get that you like Barry Bonds, and that's not wrong, but Barry Bonds without a shadow of a doubt in my mind took steroids, and as far as i'm concerned that's cheating.

2. Bonds was a great baseball player, and beats Arron in many categories, but that's the problem with taking steroids, is it boosts your stats, how good would he have been without taking steroids, probably great, but we will never know.

3. About RBIs; I was hasty in making an argument, and made a stupid one, however the point of playing baseball is to win and Driving in runs is how you win ball games.

4. Arron and Bonds played in different time periods. When Arron played the mounds were higher, thus more pitcher friendly, and the ball parks were bigger. When Bonds played everyone was doing steroids, and being beastly.

We should all just be friends and hate the Phillies.

 

[ballin4life]

If Bonds weren't letting Greg Anderson go to jail for him, he would've been convicted on every count, and I can almost guarantee that.

No you can't, because you aren't Greg Anderson. Also, Bonds wasn't "letting Greg Anderson go to jail for him", Greg Anderson was choosing to stay in jail of his own accord.

Bonds took steroids, whether or not it was before 2004 the fact remains that it gives an unfair advantage.

How is it unfair if they were legal under MLB rules?

Also are you saying that Bonds had more actual talent than Hank Aaron? Or that he had better stats? Because those are two completely different things.

Both, if by talent you mean skill. Bonds certainly had better stats, both on an absolute level and relative to his peers.

As for who is more "innately talented" I don't know how it's possible to answer that question for anyone. Obviously both are very talented, but you can't really measure exactly how much of someone's skill is talent vs hard work.

Personally, hope he gets the max for Obstruction and is never let into the Hall.

lol u mad?

Ok this is going to be my last post on the subject, because i don't think this is going to go anywhere.

You mean you're going to lose the argument when presented with facts.

1. just because there was no steroid policy until 2004 doesn't mean that it's not cheating to take performance enhancing drugs. I get that you like Barry Bonds, and that's not wrong, but Barry Bonds without a shadow of a doubt in my mind took steroids, and as far as i'm concerned that's cheating.

How is it cheating if it was allowed by the MLB?

2. Bonds was a great baseball player, and beats Arron in many categories, but that's the problem with taking steroids, is it boosts your stats, how good would he have been without taking steroids, probably great, but we will never know.

Lots of things boost your stats, like weightlifting, eating healthy, etc. Should we ban all of those?

Also Bonds was already one of the best players of all time even before 2001.

3. About RBIs; I was hasty in making an argument, and made a stupid one, however the point of playing baseball is to win and Driving in runs is how you win ball games.

Yes, but the best way to evaluate an individual player is not RBIs.

4. Arron and Bonds played in different time periods. When Arron played the mounds were higher, thus more pitcher friendly, and the ball parks were bigger. When Bonds played everyone was doing steroids, and being beastly.

We should all just be friends and hate the Phillies.

Everyone including the pitchers, don't forget (and steroids, since all they do is help with recovery, actually help pitchers more than hitters. Hitters just use them so they can weight train harder).

Also if you want to talk about absolute skill level, it's pretty obvious that the overall skill level in today's MLB is higher than in Aaron's day. The MLB is much more global today, and there are HUGE salaries that give people an incentive to work really hard to try to make the major leagues.

If you want to talk about relative skill level, Bonds' skill level relative to his peers is higher than Aaron's.

Also, Bonds played most of his career in two notorious pitcher's parks: Candlestick and Pac Bell.

 

[Peek~]

SHARKS PLAYING RIGHT NoW

IM AM PUMPED, **** SMASH

 

[Battlecow]

Ballin's soooo biased, because he's a bay area boy.

Bonds is not as good of a player as Aaron. Pretending that he is is silly. Even if we don't bring the issue of character into account, he only got those records because he was using performance-enhancing drugs which Aaron didn't have access to/wouldn't have used because he was a great athlete and not a tremendous prick. If metal bats were allowed starting in 2012, would it be right to weight those stats equally with the wooden-bat stats of the past? Of course not. In terms of athleticism, Bonds might have been a phenomenal player anyways-he had a good career even before steroids- but he forfeits his right to a position as an American hero like Aaron or Ruth because he cheated, and saying he didn't is like saying OJ didn't kill his wife.

 

[StretchNutz]

Battle-my-nuts strikes again.

 

[TheFooL]

Sure there is, if randomness doesn't exist, which I don't believe it does. If there is no such thing as true randomness, then everything is technically predictable.

I'm pretty sure it's impossible to prove whether randomness exists or not though.

It's irrelevant whether true randomness exists, due to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. Determinism, in it's strictest sense, says that if you knew the position and velocity of every particle in the universe at any give state, you could predict the next state, and then the state after that, and so one and so forth. But this is directly contradicted by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, which states that it's impossible to know the position and velocity of a subatomic particle with certainty, at any one time.

No process needs to be perfectly random for it to be unpredictable, since its impossible to know all the necessary information about the particles in a given system, you can only predict possible future states of the system, one of which is what will happen. but you can't say which possible system is more likely.

Take your brain, for example. It has a finite number of neurons and chemical messengers. Deterministically, if I could model the firing state of every neuron and the position and velocity of each chemical messenger, then in theory i could predict the next state of your brain, and read your thoughts. But this is impossible, because when a chemical messenger binds to a neuron, it either causes the neuron to fire, or it doesn't. And the difference between these two outcomes is tremendous. Each option will send you on different modes of thought, and there is no way to predict whether or not a neuron will fire.

Like the double pendulum, it's chaotically unpredictable. Two starting points that look the same, but even off by the slightest hundreth of a degree, will cause radically different paths for the pendulum. Even if we know the starting points, there is no long term correlation between what will happen. We only have differential equations to describe this system, there are no equations that you can input a starting configuration and output a path of the system through time. It's impossible to predict. Life's freaky like that.

 

[sharksquail]

You mean you're going to lose the argument when presented with facts.

No I mean I think Arron is a better player. You think that Bonds is a better player. I think that taking steroids is cheating, you don't. It has become obvious to me that no matter what evidence I come up with I will not be able to sway your beliefs, and you will not change mine. Thus I see no point in continuing. It's like Democrats and Republicans bickering about bull ****. it's gonna go nowhere.

 

[ballin4life]

Ballin's soooo biased, because he's a bay area boy.

Bonds is not as good of a player as Aaron. Pretending that he is is silly. Even if we don't bring the issue of character into account, he only got those records because he was using performance-enhancing drugs which Aaron didn't have access to/wouldn't have used because he was a great athlete and not a tremendous prick. If metal bats were allowed starting in 2012, would it be right to weight those stats equally with the wooden-bat stats of the past? Of course not. In terms of athleticism, Bonds might have been a phenomenal player anyways-he had a good career even before steroids- but he forfeits his right to a position as an American hero like Aaron or Ruth because he cheated, and saying he didn't is like saying OJ didn't kill his wife.

Aaron also didn't have access to creatine, fish oil, and protein powder. Should we ban all of those? How about we get rid of Hank Aaron's record because he used amphetamines which Babe Ruth didn't have access to?

So it looks like Babe Ruth is the only "legit" record, since apparently any advancement in science/exercise/nutrition makes it unfair for later generations. Oh wait, Ruth's might be the most unfair of all since they only allowed white people to play back then.

Also, once again what definition of cheating are you using? MLB had no steroid policy until 2004.

No I mean I think Arron is a better player. You think that Bonds is a better player. I think that taking steroids is cheating, you don't. It has become obvious to me that no matter what evidence I come up with I will not be able to sway your beliefs, and you will not change mine. Thus I see no point in continuing. It's like Democrats and Republicans bickering about bull ****. it's gonna go nowhere.

Well, you could start by, you know, actually presenting some evidence, like I have.

There was no steroid policy in the MLB until 2004.


So what's the definition of "cheating"? If you use the usual definition of "actually against the rules of the league" then using steroids was NOT cheating until 2004. If you use the definition of "anything that Babe Ruth didn't have access to" then it looks like using creatine, protein powder, or fish oil is cheating (not to mention any sort of modern weightlifting). So what's it gonna be?

 

[sharksquail]

Well when Barry decides to retire we'll find out if MLB hall of fame voters have deemed him a cheater. If not he will no doubt be a first ballot hall of fame. If he ever goes in i'll send you a video of me eating my braves hat.

SHARKS PLAYING RIGHT NoW

IM AM PUMPED, **** SMASH

lol the sharks. I've always though that there team name sounded like the name of a u10 soccer team. How's your first season of baseball fanship coming along?

 

[Peek~]

SHARKS PLAYING RIGHT NoW

IM AM PUMPED, **** SMASH

HOLY HELL I CAME

lol the sharks. I've always though that there team name sounded like the name of a u10 soccer team. How's your first season of baseball fanship coming along?

It's tough to keep up with. So many games, ive only been able to watch 3-4 so far. But what I have seen so far ive liked

 

[malva00]

just passed the arena on my way home

guess everyone was still in there

 

[StretchNutz]

But this is directly contradicted by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, which states that it's impossible to know the position and velocity of a subatomic particle with certainty, at any one time.

It's impossible to know because the very act of observation would alter the physical state of the particle, but that doesn't mean that, during each infinitesimally brief moment, that state is not definite. Observation, and thus perception, of the particles is not requisite for their existence.
Heisenberg uncertainty principle basically says neener neener neener you'll never know exactly what this particle is doing, but it doesn't imply that the state of the particle is not definite at any given time.

 

[kys]

Also, once again what definition of cheating are you using? MLB had no steroid policy until 2004.

There was no steroid policy in the MLB until 2004.


So what's the definition of "cheating"? If you use the usual definition of "actually against the rules of the league" then using steroids was NOT cheating until 2004. If you use the definition of "anything that Babe Ruth didn't have access to" then it looks like using creatine, protein powder, or fish oil is cheating (not to mention any sort of modern weightlifting). So what's it gonna be?

Ballin' get yo facts straight. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1151761/index.htm

 

[ballin4life]

Well when Barry decides to retire we'll find out if MLB hall of fame voters have deemed him a cheater. If not he will no doubt be a first ballot hall of fame. If he ever goes in i'll send you a video of me eating my braves hat.

lol MLB HoF voters. Who cares what they think?

Ballin' get yo facts straight. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1151761/index.htm

That wasn't an official steroid policy. Note that it was not included in the CBA, and the players did not agree to it.

Also I forgot to mention that the thing Bonds allegedly took weren't considered steroids or illegal to take until 2005.

Check opening paragraph here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrogestrinone

So even if that policy were official, Bonds still never violated it.

 

[Olikus]

MLB allowed drugs until 2004?

LOL

People should blame the people that makes the rules until that date for being dumb. I dont know much about Bonds but if he used drugs in early 2000 he is a douche regardless of the rules.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Either way Bonds is going to jail, thats the best part :D

OR he better go to jail anyways >_>

This stupid judge has been known to let this stuff go.

 

[ballin4life]

MLB allowed drugs until 2004?

LOL

People should blame the people that makes the rules until that date for being dumb. I dont know much about Bonds but if he used drugs in early 2000 he is a douche regardless of the rules.

I'm currently taking protein powder, creatine, ZMA, fish oil, and a host of other vitamins.

Am I douche?

Bonds allegedly took something that WASN'T considered a steroid, during a time when the MLB didn't have an official drug policy besides 2 memos released by the commissioner that were never agreed to in the CBA and were never enforced.

Furthermore, Bonds says he didn't know exactly what he was taking. And why would he, since it wasn't considered a steroid at the time? Is he supposed to know what the heck "Tetrahydrogestrinone" is, if he even bothered to ask? I couldn't tell you what creatine or ZMA or fish oil actually does, but I take them because someone told me they are healthy.

Either way Bonds is going to jail, thats the best part :D

OR he better go to jail anyways >_>

This stupid judge has been known to let this stuff go.

1) lol if you think Bonds is going to jail after the people in related cases who actually got convicted of perjury only got home confinement

2) lol if you think Bonds should go to jail

If you look at the thing he was convicted of, it's for giving a rambling answer about being "a celebrity child" and talking about his relationship with Greg Anderson. Apparently that merits jail time according to Surri.

 

[TheFooL]

It's impossible to know because the very act of observation would alter the physical state of the particle, but that doesn't mean that, during each infinitesimally brief moment, that state is not definite. Observation, and thus perception, of the particles is not requisite for their existence.
Heisenberg uncertainty principle basically says neener neener neener you'll never know exactly what this particle is doing, but it doesn't imply that the state of the particle is not definite at any given time.

Sure, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle doesn't say a particle's state at any time is not definite, but particle-wave duality theorem does.

 

[StretchNutz]

I couldn't tell you what creatine or ZMA or fish oil actually does, but I take them because someone told me they are healthy.

It's healthy to take 30, 25 mg benadryl tablets at the same time. You should do that too.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Social Social Thread Talk About Anything (Except make it a new debate hall.)

 

[The Star King]

Social Social Thread Talk About Anything (Except make it a new debate hall.)

Debating is included in talking about anything (you are allowed to talk about).

 

[sharksquail]

saw your highness last night. it was moderately funny.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

debating is included in talking about anything (you are allowed to talk about).

but it doesnt mean ballin4life has to spread his idealist feces everywhere and expect to clean that **** up angry face

 

[ballin4life]

but it doesnt mean ballin4life has to spread his idealist feces everywhere and expect to clean that **** up angry face

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here (lol incoherent post) but lol if you're blaming me

It's healthy to take 30, 25 mg benadryl tablets at the same time. You should do that too.

In a somewhat ironic twist, I actually did get info on what to take from the internet.

But it was a little better than some random guy telling me to take 30 pills of allergy medication

 

[Battlecow]

Ballin', I totally understand your perspective on this. When I was a child, Mark Mcgwire was my hero; not just a player I looked up to, but actually my hero. When it came out that he'd been steroid'ing it up, it was a total "say it ain't so" moment. I even tried what you're trying, i.e. pretending it didn't matter or that he was a great player anyways, and why get bothered over the small stuff? The man hit 70 home runs in a season.

That being said, it's understandable that you'd defend Bonds, but come on now. Your arguments are getting sketchier and sketchier. Are you seriously saying that fish oil or whatever should be treated the same as steroids? There has to be a line somewhere; it's (obviously) not a "all or none" thing. Steroids allow a good ballplayer like Bonds to become a hulking, unstoppable home-run-whacking machine in his mid-thirties; Calcium supplements or whatever don't do that. Obviously there's always a place for stuff like vitamins, a good diet, whatever, but illegal miracle drugs don't fall under that category.

As for "It wasn't against the rules," Kys' link pretty much takes care of that. "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited.... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual in possession of the drug does not have a prescription." So yeah, maybe the players didn't agree to it, but it was pretty clearly a no-no and, oh yeah, ****ING ILLEGAL. That was in '91, by the way.

Obviously things are going to change over time- Aaron had better-made bats than Ruth, I'm sure. But that's a small matter, and it was within the rules (do both of us a favor and don't give me this "players didn't agree to it" bull****, OK? Bonds (or his trainer if you truly believe that story) obviously knew it was unkosher enough to keep it on the low). Bonds used maple bats, right? No one's complaining about that. We would complain if he got fitted for a bionic eyeball that slowed down time so that he could see the ball in slow-motion. It's a matter of degree. The man's a cheater, a douchebag, and a liar, and as for what he is not? He is not the holder of any sort of acknowledged or legitimate home run record.

 

[ballin4life]

Ballin', I totally understand your perspective on this. When I was a child, Mark Mcgwire was my hero; not just a player I looked up to, but actually my hero. When it came out that he'd been steroid'ing it up, it was a total "say it ain't so" moment. I even tried what you're trying, i.e. pretending it didn't matter or that he was a great player anyways, and why get bothered over the small stuff? The man hit 70 home runs in a season.

lol

That being said, it's understandable that you'd defend Bonds, but come on now. Your arguments are getting sketchier and sketchier. Are you seriously saying that fish oil or whatever should be treated the same as steroids? There has to be a line somewhere; it's (obviously) not a "all or none" thing.

I'm asking you to spell out where the line is. Why shouldn't fish oil be treated the same as steroids? Both help you with lifting weights, allowing you to become a better player.

So what is the line? Once again, remember that the main thing Bonds allegedly took was NOT considered a steroid until 2005 (see my link).

Steroids allow a good ballplayer like Bonds to become a hulking, unstoppable home-run-whacking machine in his mid-thirties; Calcium supplements or whatever don't do that. Obviously there's always a place for stuff like vitamins, a good diet, whatever, but illegal miracle drugs don't fall under that category.

Steroids do not automatically make you big, they simply help you recover from workouts (just like creatine, ZMA, protein powder, etc). They are actually more useful for pitchers.

Also the main thing people allege Bonds took was again NOT illegal until 2005.

As for "It wasn't against the rules," Kys' link pretty much takes care of that. "The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited.... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual in possession of the drug does not have a prescription." So yeah, maybe the players didn't agree to it, but it was pretty clearly a no-no and, oh yeah, ****ING ILLEGAL. That was in '91, by the way.

THG not illegal until 2005.

Obviously things are going to change over time- Aaron had better-made bats than Ruth, I'm sure. But that's a small matter, and it was within the rules (do both of us a favor and don't give me this "players didn't agree to it" bull****, OK? Bonds (or his trainer if you truly believe that story) obviously knew it was unkosher enough to keep it on the low).

The "players didn't agree to it" is about the legitimacy of the "policy" expressed in a memo that was never released to the players. In order for something to be a legitimate policy of MLB, it needs to be in the CBA.

Also lol @ steroids in general being "unkosher" during this time period.

Bonds used maple bats, right? No one's complaining about that. We would complain if he got fitted for a bionic eyeball that slowed down time so that he could see the ball in slow-motion. It's a matter of degree.

Yes, and all of my posts have been asking you to draw this line. Because it seems to me to be quite difficult to draw a line that says Bonds cheated when he allegedly took something that was not classified as a steroid and not illegal at the time, and the MLB "steroid policy" consisted of nothing more than two memos that were not agreed to by the players union or EVER enforced.

The man's a cheater, a douchebag, and a liar, and as for what he is not? He is not the holder of any sort of acknowledged or legitimate home run record.

Actually, he is the holder of the MLB career home run record.

lol @ calling him a douchebag and liar too, when 1) you don't know him and 2) there's no way you would know whether he is lying. It's possible that he is lying, but there wasn't enough actual EVIDENCE for it to convict him of perjury in a court of law.


Oh yeah, how about the fact that Bonds had two of the best seasons ever once MLB started testing for steroids? (testing began in 2003, but penalties for steroid use were not in place until 2004, so that's why I say 2004 is when steroids officially became banned in MLB)

 

[sharksquail]

So do any of you guys have any hobbies other than playing video games? Through my love of craft beer, I started collecting bottle caps. My collection is currently a little more or less than 400 individual non repeating caps. Some of them have been brought back by friends from over seas, but for the most part, I've had all of them.

 

[Battlecow]

Ballin, I really admire your persistence, but you don't have a leg to stand on. The line that you keep asking me to clarify lies somewhere between "stuff that makes you somewhat healthier/stronger/fitter if used regularly, rigorously," and "Stuff that can turn you from a good player into a god of home run hitting when you're ****ing 34 while shrinking your balls, taking away your hair, giving you cancer AND acne, and making you PMS like a *****." Clear enough? You can't reasonably compare steroids to protein shakes or whatever. That's why Bonds used them even though they were dangerous and illegal. And guess what? He was convicted of lying to a grand jury about whether or not he knowingly used steroids. i.e. He knowingly used that ****. Just thought I'd make that clear. Even if he stopped in 1999 or whatever (I doubt it) a lot of the **** he supposedly used was illegal, and they've got grand jury testimonials and stuff about it YO I just read the wikipedia page so I'm INFORMED.

Oh, and from this article (Which you should read, btw; it seems to do a number on, oh, all of your arguments about Barry if any of it is true):
"Like Bonds, Anderson grew up on the San Francisco peninsula, in San Carlos. As a shortstop at Fort Hays State University, in Kansas, Anderson had begun using steroids to boost his weight training. Over time he had become extraordinarily knowledgeable about performance-enhancing drugs, as a secret recording made years later would prove. An old friend from San Mateo hooked Anderson up with Bonds. Anderson offered to put together a baseball-oriented strength program for him. He would tend to Bonds's weight training and nutritional needs. Bonds agreed, and before the 1999 season began, Anderson was hired to supervise Bonds's strength conditioning."

An old friend from San Mateo who has no problem with steroids? I guess we know what ballin's angle is, then.

Anyways, he probably used HGH and stuffffff not just the "legal" one. The evidence against him (his gf, the transcripts) is pretty convincing.

 

[ballin4life]

Ballin, I really admire your persistence, but you don't have a leg to stand on. The line that you keep asking me to clarify lies somewhere between "stuff that makes you somewhat healthier/stronger/fitter if used regularly, rigorously," and "Stuff that can turn you from a good player into a god of home run hitting when you're ****ing 34 while shrinking your balls, taking away your hair, giving you cancer AND acne, and making you PMS like a *****." Clear enough? You can't reasonably compare steroids to protein shakes or whatever. That's why Bonds used them even though they were dangerous and illegal.

So what I'm getting here is that you can't draw a line ...

I can reasonably compare steroids to protein shakes, because they are similar. Both help you weight train. Both were not available to athletes of the past. The only difference is that as of NOW one is not allowed in MLB and one is.

Also lol @ "turn you from a good player into a god of home run hitting". For one, Bonds was much more than a "good player". He was the best player of the 1990s, and already one of the best players of all time before his 2001 season. He had 2 seasons with over 10 WAR, 3 seasons over 9, and another season with 8.8 (WAR stands for "Wins Above Replacement", and basically means Bonds by himself was worth over 8 wins in each of those seasons). For comparison, Pujols's best season is 9.5 WAR (which is still an insane total). Bonds won 3 MVPs in the 90s too and should have won more.

Source: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1109&position=OF

And once again, steroids do NOT automatically turn you into a "god of home run hitting". They help you with weight training by increasing your recovery.

And guess what? He was convicted of lying to a grand jury about whether or not he knowingly used steroids. i.e. He knowingly used that ****.

Ok, looks like you're totally clueless.

Bonds did NOT get convicted of ANY of the perjury charges.

He got convicted of obstruction of justice for giving a rambling answer to one question.

Just thought I'd make that clear. Even if he stopped in 1999 or whatever (I doubt it) a lot of the **** he supposedly used was illegal, and they've got grand jury testimonials and stuff about it YO I just read the wikipedia page so I'm INFORMED.

You mean the **** that there wasn't enough evidence for to convict him in court of perjury?

Anyways, he probably used HGH and stuffffff not just the "legal" one. The evidence against him (his gf, the transcripts) is pretty convincing.

Which is why it didn't hold up in court?