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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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7NATOR said:
Yes Theoretically they could do the same thing, but it conflicts with the Personality for Shadow to Move like Sonic

The interesting thing with these two is that they do have access to the same tools, but they use them differently. Like Sonic could use Chaos Powers more if he wanted too, but he doesn't, and he probably wouldn't master it to the level Shadow is at

It's just like Isabelle, like she could do Villager's N-air, but she uses Pom-poms, She could theoretically use all of Villager's other attacks, but it conflicts with her more pacifist nature or something like that. That's also why Luigi doesn't move the Same as Mario, or heck , why Ken doesn't move the same as Ryu. They have their own Flair

Also by the way, the Mechanic comes from Shadow's Own Game, Shadow the Hedgehog. Did you know that Sakurai played Shadow the Hedgehog, along with Sonic 06 (and he even said he completed Sonic 06 as well). those are games where Shadow has his own Mechanics separate from Sonic. Also it was a balancing thing
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I think you're missing the issue with Isabelle being a clone/semi-clone. She is only doing that because she could not be an Echo, so going the extra mile makes sense too. If she had the right body type, she could still be an Echo and get personality changes. The only questionable move would be the Fishing Rod at that point, and we know one different move(or two, technically) does not stop someone from being an Echo. Body types, however, do. And those who could easily be an Echo(Dr. Mario) but were officially a clone seem to be unable to take a new label, probably due to Grandfather Clause.

Ken actually is closer to an what you wouldn't expect from Echoes. His mechanic is literally the same as Ryu, input commands. He just has differences due to having unique abilities via those in his home game. The one that shows what you can do and still make them feel very unique yet correct to their personality is Dark Samus. That's basically what one can do to make Shadow. Take a note from Chrom with an Up B and it works really well. Dark Samus does have a lot of different animations, including the phazon aesthetic changes. Did you know a regular clone with Roy, for example, played nearly the same as Marth bar two key differences(besides a small amount of damage/knockback stuff, of course), he had an aesthetic change to add Fire, but more importantly, he could take damage with Flare Blade. The other is his damage ability comes from the middle of the sword instead of the tip.

The issue here is your premise of him being impossible as an Echo doesn't work. Now, I won't disagree that he'd be better as unique at all. That's how I imagined his moveset from the start, but then I realized Echoes don't need to be 100% replicas in animations either anyway, so you can keep the personality yet not be a clone/semi-clone. Not being able to have new animations and such is something that Alts suffer from. Echoes do not suffer from this. They're supposed to have things like different hitboxes(though admittedly some barely change anything even then, but they still have some remote gameplay difference).
 
Michael the Spikester

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Unless its a chronologically set before Ragnarok I think it'd make more sense for it to be set after Guardians 3 at the possibility of Thor leaving the Guardians at the end and deciding to travel on his own through the universe.
 
Ramen Tengoku

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Onereasonanddone said:
Wow, now Disney can't advertise Avatar 2 as the sequel to highest grossing movie of all time. That probably hurts their marketing more than it helps the mcu's.
Click to expand...
That's why if you ask me, they're probably gonna reissue the first Avatar in theaters in anticipation of the second one, just so it reclaims that spot once again.

I know my cinema, this is how they like to roll.
 
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Mega Bidoof

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7NATOR said:
So I Just Called the Nintendo Support Line which is

1-800-255-3700

To Request Shadow the Hedgehog as Unique Fighter, not Echo

I suggest you guys do the same. You can show your support on here all you want, but it would only have a certain reach
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*looks at thread
[NOBODY LIKED THAT]

Honestly, it’s more likely that a developer looks at fan forums than it is that a developer checks in with the NoA Customer Support.

Also spirits will not be playable as DLC, @ me all you want.
 
Noipoi

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Love and Thunder is a romantic comedy where Thor tries to win the heart of a sweet but shy librarian, with Rocket and Groot as his wingmen.
 
Cosmic77

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Ahm Skittish! said:
I think you're missing the issue with Isabelle being a clone/semi-clone. She is only doing that because she could not be an Echo, so going the extra mile makes sense too. If she had the right body type, she could still be an Echo and get personality changes. The only questionable move would be the Fishing Rod at that point, and we know one different move(or two, technically) does not stop someone from being an Echo. Body types, however, do. And those who could easily be an Echo(Dr. Mario) but were officially a clone seem to be unable to take a new label, probably due to Grandfather Clause.
Click to expand...
Not to pick this one paragraph from your post and ignore the rest, but I think Isabelle could've worked as an Echo. We already see that a lot of Villager's moveset could still be carried over, and most of what didn't get used in Isabelle's moveset probably would've worked just fine, even with the different body type. So basically, we could've had an almost identical character, just with slightly longer arms and legs. I don't know if that's enough to give her a separate spot on the roster, but I can't imagine it playing that much of a difference in gameplay.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic that she's not an Echo because I think she deserved better. I just think Sakurai's reasoning doesn't make much sense.
 
7NATOR

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Ahm Skittish! said:
I think you're missing the issue with Isabelle being a clone/semi-clone. She is only doing that because she could not be an Echo, so going the extra mile makes sense too. If she had the right body type, she could still be an Echo and get personality changes. The only questionable move would be the Fishing Rod at that point, and we know one different move(or two, technically) does not stop someone from being an Echo. Body types, however, do. And those who could easily be an Echo(Dr. Mario) but were officially a clone seem to be unable to take a new label, probably due to Grandfather Clause.

Ken actually is closer to an what you wouldn't expect from Echoes. His mechanic is literally the same as Ryu, input commands. He just has differences due to having unique abilities via those in his home game. The one that shows what you can do and still make them feel very unique yet correct to their personality is Dark Samus. That's basically what one can do to make Shadow. Take a note from Chrom with an Up B and it works really well. Dark Samus does have a lot of different animations, including the phazon aesthetic changes. Did you know a regular clone with Roy, for example, played nearly the same as Marth bar two key differences(besides a small amount of damage/knockback stuff, of course), he had an aesthetic change to add Fire, but more importantly, he could take damage with Flare Blade. The other is his damage ability comes from the middle of the sword instead of the tip.

The issue here is your premise of him being impossible as an Echo doesn't work. Now, I won't disagree that he'd be better as unique at all. That's how I imagined his moveset from the start, but then I realized Echoes don't need to be 100% replicas in animations either anyway, so you can keep the personality yet not be a clone/semi-clone. Not being able to have new animations and such is something that Alts suffer from. Echoes do not suffer from this. They're supposed to have things like different hitboxes(though admittedly some barely change anything even then, but they still have some remote gameplay difference).
Click to expand...
Fine i Will Admit it, it's not impossible to make Shadow an echo and yes i could see it being a possibility

I just think it would be really Lame and we really don't need more Spin when Sonic is enough. People complain about Sonic being Bland and all that with TWO spindashes, so i don't want Shadow to be the Ultimate Missed Oppertunity. Shadow like i said coul have one of the most unique and flashy movesets in Smash.

I just think you could do so much with Shadow that's all. I don't want him to end up being another Dark Samus situation. or even Daisy

Like for example, The main reason i say Swordfighters get such a bad rep is because Fire Emblem has 3 Characters that Do such Similar things to Marth, hence there being 4 marths...
 
StormC

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7NATOR said:
So I Just Called the Nintendo Support Line which is

1-800-255-3700

To Request Shadow the Hedgehog as Unique Fighter, not Echo

I suggest you guys do the same. You can show your support on here all you want, but it would only have a certain reach
Click to expand...
Weren't you the dude who said he had to drink detergent or something if Shadow didn't get in?
 
Will

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Jane Foster Thor wasn't something I was expecting so quick. The Eternals movie is gonna come before Thor 4 right? Then it makes total sense for it to happen in that order implying they're subsequent. All that's missing now is giving Jane breast cancer, making Nick Fury a Watcher, and now give her a Mjolnir despite the fact that Mjolnir was destroyed.
 
Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Cosmic77 said:
Not to pick this one paragraph from your post and ignore the rest, but I think Isabelle could've worked as an Echo. We already see that a lot of Villager's moveset could still be carried over, and most of what didn't get used in Isabelle's moveset probably would've worked just fine, even with the different body type. So basically, we could've had an almost identical character, just with slightly longer arms and legs. I don't know if that's enough to give her a separate spot on the roster, but I can't imagine it playing that much of a difference in gameplay.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic that she's not an Echo because I think she deserved better. I just think Sakurai's reasoning doesn't make much sense.
Click to expand...
The problem was the Body Type being fundamentally different. She could not have worked as an Echo. His reasoning makes a lot of sense. Her moves being effectively the same wouldn't have mattered(maybe looked a bit odd at best). She didn't have to have personality changes for moves, sure. That's a bonus overall compared to the core problem. They must have the same Body Type. She'd have to have tons of animation changes(and no, their body types aren't very similar. It's far closer to Link/Young Link in body type differences than ones like Pikachu/Pichu. Likewise, this is why Pichu cannot be an Echo. Different body type).

You can't post the animations on her and call it a day. It doesn't work. That requires a lot of animation changes for her to flow properly. It's not simply "longer arms" like someone like Daisy would be. It's way more than that. I already saw the actual mod, that uses the same models that are currently used in Smash, just a Smash 4 mod. She looked beyond unpresentable and a clear case of "we need to fix this". Her moveset was pretty glitchy too. So after you change all the animations, which is due to her having the wrong Body Type, it doesn't take long to realize that adding her personality(which would happen anyway for taunts/etc.) makes her more accurate. They basically already had to do tons of work to make her playable even before the thought of having more accurate personality moveset changes was needed. That's how huge of a difference their body types are. And yes, I'm not capitalizing Body Type every time.
 
Cosmic77

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I wish I could get as excited about superhero movies as you guys. I haven't even seen these films yet and I'm already feeling fatigued.

Ahm Skittish! said:
The problem was the Body Type being fundamentally different. She could not have worked as an Echo. His reasoning makes a lot of sense. Her moves being effectively the same wouldn't have mattered(maybe looked a bit odd at best). She didn't have to have personality changes for moves, sure. That's a bonus overall compared to the core problem. They must have the same Body Type. She'd have to have tons of animation changes(and no, their body types aren't very similar. It's far closer to Link/Young Link in body type differences than ones like Pikachu/Pichu. Likewise, this is why Pichu cannot be an Echo. Different body type).

You can't post the animations on her and call it a day. It doesn't work. That requires a lot of animation changes for her to flow properly. It's not simply "longer arms" like someone like Daisy would be. It's way more than that. I already saw the actual mod, that uses the same models that are currently used in Smash, just a Smash 4 mod. She looked beyond unpresentable and a clear case of "we need to fix this". Her moveset was pretty glitchy too. So after you change all the animations, which is due to her having the wrong Body Type, it doesn't take long to realize that adding her personality(which would happen anyway for taunts/etc.) makes her more accurate. They basically already had to do tons of work to make her playable even before the thought of having more accurate personality moveset changes was needed. That's how huge of a difference their body types are. And yes, I'm not capitalizing Body Type every time.
Click to expand...
I see what you're trying to say, but again, a lot of Villager's moves are already in Isabelle's moveset, showing us that they still work fine regardless of the differences. Then when we look at what's left, there's not really much that couldn't that wouldn't work because of the different body type. Timber should work fine, Lloyd Rocket should work fine, Up-Smash should work fine, Down-Smash should work fine, Side-Smash should work fine. Maybe Villager's nair and MAYBE the jab could be a problem, but that's about it.

Unlike Pichu, Villager and Isabelle share a similar height and speed. So all that really leaves is, "Isabelle looks different from Villager because her body is slimmer with longer limbs". Given how lenient Sakurai was with Ken, I think she could've worked as an Echo.
 
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Will

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****ing bonkers how dr. strange's sequel is 5 (really 7 cause end game did a whole time skip) years after the first one

like oh my god can you imagine how much tomfoolery mordo has done?
 
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Noipoi

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Just watched the entirety of The Office

I can see why people like it, really great show, really funny. Dwight is the second best character (Mose is the first, obviously), it was really heartfelt though it was kinda cringe at many moments. And even though it’s a show I really felt like I just saw these people’s lives. And there’s something special about watching someone’s life unfold.

And now I finally get all the references!
 
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