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[PLANTMAN]

Seeing all this Marvel talk provoked me into finding this hilarious comic:

Spoiler

View attachment 277618

God I remember THANOS car lol

 

[Teeb147]

I don't want to spend too much more time on this, but I did watch a good bunch of sky's video, and felt like I might as well share my thoughts, though I kinda feel like things are beyond me. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think he enabled any abusers, or at least knowingly, I think maybe he was just stupid and didn't know what to do. Maybe he's faking a lot, I dunno, but his emotions seem to show that he really did care. Or maybe he believes his own lies and doesn't see all of the bad. Sometimes I felt l like people are seeing the worse cuz they're upset and feeling on the victims' pain. It's entirely possible I'm just naive tho, and he really does twist things more than i know.

Anyway, the internet is weird.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

A) You’re purposely picking shallower series and ignoring stuff like Fire Emblem or Xenoblade that have beloved plots.
B) Final Fantasy literally started as a Nintendo franchise. The first Metal Gear was on the NES. So the franchises you hold up as bastions of story-telling started with Nintendo. Doesn’t that kind of shoot a lot of holes in this argument?

What are you smoking? Metal Gear and FF were always products made by Konami and Square. Nintendo had nothing to do with their creation.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Yes because when people think of the great gaming stories they think of Metal Gear Solid and Mario Odyssey. Breath of the Wild and FFVII are always in the same breath. Persona 5 and Pokémon Sword and Shield are master classes in narrative.

I mean, I haven’t played BotW, but the Zelda games I have played have very good stories, the franchise as a whole having a lot of lore. While some of the Pokémon games fall a bit flat regarding story, they at least have some story, and there are still games in the franchise with very good stories (and this has to do with Game Freak rather than Nintendo, anyway).

Mario Odyssey, while still having “Bowser kidnaps Peach,” at least has more depth to it instead of just being a slight alteration, just like 64 (where he didn’t actually just kidnap Peach), Sunshine, and the Galaxy games (and 3D World has a bit of depth to I guess? idk I guess that one is really basic even with the fairies included, I don’t remember any big plot stuff besides Bowser not kidnapping Peach).

Meanwhile you have FE and Xenoblade (which while I haven’t played, others have said good things about their stories), the Mario RPGs, some Kirby games, Pikmin, Metroid, Chibi-Robo, Golden Sun, Mother...you don’t need to go extremely in depth with tons of different details for a good story and general lore, yet even Nintendo does that in a decent amount of games.

 

[Rangez]

That and they were planning on Kamala and Asura for season 2.

Wasn't that apart of a rumor though?

 

[zeldasmash]

The roster choices pretty much uniformly seem to be based on the MCU from the Marvel side. There are a handful of exceptions (Nova, Ghost Rider, Venom), but the Nova Corps. are supporting characters in Guardians of the Galaxy, Ghost Rider is in Agents of SHIELD, and I think the Venom movie was coming out soon when he was added as DLC.

Compare that to the Marvel characters cut between Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and this - Iron Fist, Shuma Gorath, She-Hulk, MODOK, Deadpool, Doctor Doom, Wolverine, Phoenix, Storm, Magneto, Sentinel, X-23, Taskmaster, Super Skrull - and it seems clear that they're going for as much MCU synergy as possible.

I found it weird that Iron Fist got cut as his show was out by the time MvC:I got released (it wasn't great when it came out, but for promotional purposes it would have worked). Looking back I also found strange that Skrull was cut because Captain Marvel was in the game and her movie had Skrulls in it (Rocket wasn't a household name until 2014, 3 years after UMvC3 came out).

The X-Men and Dr. Doom were cut because Disney was petty as hell and didn't want to give FOX any ounce of money or profit. Now that they own FOX, that issue is long gone (Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 proves that). In fact right now, Marvel and Capcom seem to be doing alright enough to release brand new arcade machines with all the previous MvC games up until MvC1. MvC2 has a likelyhood of getting rereleased because of this year being it's 20th anniversary. They know the audience wants more Marvel vs. Capcom, just not what the mess that MvC:I was.

Picture this: They announce the rerelease of MvC2 for all platforms, then they tease Marvel vs. Capcom 4 with just the logo and the 4 is the Fantastic 4 logo, only to then have three claws shred up the logo to symbolize Wolverine being in the game. "Mahvel" be back with something like that.

 

[TheMightyP]

Interesting. How so?

A lot if it falls under the "Show, Don't Tell" issue, where the games tell you how powerful Kirby villians are through menus and the manuals, but the games never really show you how destructive some of them can be. Plus, a lot villians are presented the same/have the same motives, and due to Kirby's cutesy nature and minimal writing for little kids, a lot of the lore is up to player interpretation. That's nit a bad thing, but for a series that's suppossed to be lore heavy, they really fumble the bag with presenting the lore.

 

[Deleted member]

Coming back home with my new headphones

So far a really cool day.

 

[Teeb147]

A lot if it falls under the "Show, Don't Tell" issue, where the games tell you how powerful Kirby villians are through menus and the manuals, but the games never really show you how destructive some of them can be. Plus, a lot villians are presented the same/have the same motives, and due to Kirby's cutesy nature and minimal writing for little kids, a lot of the lore is up to player interpretation. That's nit a bad thing, but for a series that's suppossed to be lore heavy, they really fumble the bag with presenting the lore.

I love kirby, and never really thought there should be much to the lore He's a blob that can eat almost anything and copy powers. Does the lore need to make sense?

 

[Deleted member]

I barely played Kirby games (only almost completed Star Allies, beated Super Star on the SNES Classic and played a bit of Mass Attack as a kid).

But yeah, I'd say most Kirby games are really good.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

The roster choices pretty much uniformly seem to be based on the MCU from the Marvel side. There are a handful of exceptions (Nova, Ghost Rider, Venom), but the Nova Corps. are supporting characters in Guardians of the Galaxy, Ghost Rider is in Agents of SHIELD, and I think the Venom movie was coming out soon when he was added as DLC.

Compare that to the Marvel characters cut between Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and this - Iron Fist, Shuma Gorath, She-Hulk, MODOK, Deadpool, Doctor Doom, Wolverine, Phoenix, Storm, Magneto, Sentinel, X-23, Taskmaster, Super Skrull - and it seems clear that they're going for as much MCU synergy as possible.

I really don’t like this focus on “MCU=bad”. Like.... now that Disney has the x-men and fantastic four and EVERYONE is or potential is in the MCU... does that mean nobody can be in MvC?

And like... what’s wrong with them using their popular characters?

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I love kirby, and never really thought there should be much to the lore He's a blob that can eat almost anything and copy powers. Does the lore need to make sense?

Look at Crash 4. Or like... a Disney movie. That’s the level of story that should be in a Kirby game. Or a Mario game. Or a Pokémon game. At bare minimum.

 

[Schnee117]

I really don’t like this focus on “MCU=bad”. Like.... now that Disney has the x-men and fantastic four and EVERYONE is or potential is in the MCU... does that mean nobody can be in MvC?

That's pretty disingenuous.

And like... what’s wrong with them using their popular characters?

They arbitrarily cut several other popular characters because Ike Perlmutter is a petty ****.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

That's pretty disingenuous.



They arbitrarily cut several other popular characters because Ike Perlmutter is a petty ****.

If the leaks were to be believed they would have come in updates. But nope. Game had to die before they could do that.

And maybe you could explain your point a little better because what you call disingenuous is the only real takeaway I get when you call the game MCU focused as a point in criticism.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

What are you smoking? Metal Gear and FF were always products made by Konami and Square. Nintendo had nothing to do with their creation.

I’m smoking 3 hours of sleep, but that’s beside the point.

I know Square made them, what I mean is that the first wave of final fantasy games were all developed for Nintendo’s consoles. If Nintendo hated stories, why would they put those games on their console?

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I’m smoking 3 hours of sleep, but that’s beside the point.

I know Square made them, what I mean is that the first wave of final fantasy games were all developed for Nintendo’s consoles. If Nintendo hated stories, why would they put those games on their console?

This isn’t about what they let on the console, it’s about what they like to make.

 

[Teeb147]

I really don’t like this focus on “MCU=bad”. Like.... now that Disney has the x-men and fantastic four and EVERYONE is or potential is in the MCU... does that mean nobody can be in MvC?

And like... what’s wrong with them using their popular characters?

Why, lol. Not all games have to have deep story. Up to interpretation is interesting too, imo.

I barely played Kirby games (only almost completed Star Allies, beated Super Star on the SNES Classic and played a bit of Mass Attack as a kid).

But yeah, I'd say most Kirby games are really good.

They are. I love them. I do have complaints tho, one being at the movement for later ones feels slow compared to kirby super star, which I thought felt really good. Like with star allies, I really liked so much of it, but I felt like they purposefully slowed down how you move just to prolong the gameplay. Maybe not, it's still a gripe i have.

Also, would be nice to have harder difficult setting. Pokemon too.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Why, lol. Not all games have to have deep story. Up to interpretation is interesting too, imo.




They are. I love them. I do have complaints tho, one being at the movement for later ones feels slow compared to kirby super star, which I thought felt really good. Like with star allies, I really liked so much of it, but I felt like they purposefully slowed down how you move just to prolong the gameplay. Maybe not, it's still a gripe i have.

Also, would be nice to have harder difficult setting. Pokemon too.

Not deep. Just... existing. Characters need to speak and there needs to be a reason they do what they do. There needs to be a plot. Things need to happen.

 

[Teeb147]

Not deep. Just... existing. Characters need to speak and there needs to be a reason they do what they do. There needs to be a plot. Things need to happen.

They don't 'need' to. Makes for something simple and kid friendly. I also prefer mario not say too much, mamamia is good enough lol.
I like how they took that route, personally.
You could watch the kirby anime if you want more story, lol. It wasnt very good tho

 

[Megadoomer]

I really don’t like this focus on “MCU=bad”. Like.... now that Disney has the x-men and fantastic four and EVERYONE is or potential is in the MCU... does that mean nobody can be in MvC?

And like... what’s wrong with them using their popular characters?

It just felt like more could have been done. Even if they couldn't use the Fantastic Four or X-Men characters due to petty rights squabbles with Fox, Marvel still has a lot of interesting characters and potential movesets to offer for a fighting game - MODOK, Kamala Khan, Squirrel Girl, I could go on and on.

By contrast, the Marvel side of MvC Infinite's roster didn't feel like there was a lot of passion or interest in the choices - it felt like the developers were going through a checklist of who the biggest characters in the MCU were. Don't get me wrong, characters like Captain Marvel, Ultron, Black Panther, and Thanos were great choices (though why Black Panther was stuck as DLC is beyond me), but when they theoretically had most of Marvel's line-up available to them, the roster seemed uninspired compared to what it could have been.

It's like making a Batman fighting game where the line-up is based around the Nolan movies and the Batman side of the DCEU. Sure, they could do some interesting things with that line-up, but there would be a lot of characters missing that would allow the developers to get really creative - the Bat-family, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, Clayface...

 

[SnakeFighter64]

They don't 'need' to. Makes for something simple and kid friendly. I also prefer mario not say too much, mamamia is good enough lol.
I like how they took that route, personally.
You could watch the kirby anime if you want more story, lol. It wasnt very good tho

The way I see it. Story is paramount to good entertainment. A good story, not an amazingly mind blowing one, just a good one, is and should be absolutely required to get invested in an experience be it a game or a film or anything

 

[TheCJBrine]

Look at Crash 4. Or like... a Disney movie. That’s the level of story that should be in a Kirby game. Or a Mario game. Or a Pokémon game. At bare minimum.

I personally think all the stories are good with (trying to think objectively) some at least being decent when it comes to the amount of details, some being better, but if you’re looking for what should come at least close to other games or at least as best as they can:

-Crystal Shards
-B2/W2
-Galaxy (featuring Elsa before Elsa was real) or the first three Paper Mario games, or the M&L games, or SMRPG

The Mother series itself could be a series of Disney movies. As could the Mario RPGs and other games.

Not deep. Just... existing. Characters need to speak and there needs to be a reason they do what they do. There needs to be a plot. Things need to happen.

This is already a thing in many of Nintendo’s games, including Mario. Even in ones without text, there’s still body language, voices, cutscenes etc. making it clear what’s going on, even for the character you control.

 

[Teeb147]

The way I see it. Story is paramount to good entertainment. A good story, not an amazingly mind blowing one, just a good one, is and should be absolutely required to get invested in an experience be it a game or a film or anything

Not really. Do you want a story to tetris? About how blocks are falling from the sky and the country has to rush to make it land correctly or their civilization will crumble? (doesnt sounds too bad actually)

I actually swing the other side, where I think some games should have less story and just let me play the dang game XD
But I really think games in general can have as much story or little story because entertainment isn't always about story. A lot do have some, and that's good for people who do want more lore to what they're playing. I also like games just to play them.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

It just felt like more could have been done. Even if they couldn't use the Fantastic Four or X-Men characters due to petty rights squabbles with Fox, Marvel still has a lot of interesting characters and potential movesets to offer for a fighting game - MODOK, Kamala Khan, Squirrel Girl, I could go on and on.

By contrast, the Marvel side of MvC Infinite's roster didn't feel like there was a lot of passion or interest in the choices - it felt like the developers were going through a checklist of who the biggest characters in the MCU were. Don't get me wrong, characters like Captain Marvel, Ultron, Black Panther, and Thanos were great choices (though why Black Panther was stuck as DLC is beyond me), but when they theoretically had most of Marvel's line-up available to them, the roster seemed uninspired compared to what it could have been.

It's like making a Batman fighting game where the line-up is based around the Nolan movies and the Batman side of the DCEU. (Batman, Deathstroke, Harley, Deadshot, Joker, Captain Boomerang, Killer Croc, Black Canary, Huntress, Black Mask, Ra's Al Ghul, Scarecrow, Two-Face, Bane, Catwoman) Sure, they could do some interesting things with that line-up, but there would be a lot of characters missing that would allow the developers to get really creative - the Bat-family, Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, Clayface...

And they were planning on expanding it with lots of post game content. That all never got the chance to be made because everyone was ****ting on it.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

This isn’t about what they let on the console, it’s about what they like to make.

I still counter with Nintendo developed series like:

• Fire Emblem
• Xenoblade
• Mario RPGs
• Golden Sun
• Earthbound

Even series like:

• Legend of Zelda
• Metroid Prime
• Kid Icarus
• Endless Ocean
• Pikmin
• Star Fox

Astral Chain JUST came out.

All had plots beyond “save the princess.” You’re taking issue with things like Mario/Animal Crossing that are gameplay before plot, and expanding that to some made-up Nintendo directive.

Don’t get me wrong, I really don’t care to have MK anywhere near smash or associated with Nintendo. But the idea Nintendo hates plots is just silly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Megadoomer]

And they were planning on expanding it with lots of post game content. That all never got the chance to be made because everyone was ****ting on it.

My concern is that planning to make the roster interesting after the game launches is like X-Men Origins Wolverine or Green Lantern, where it was a terrible movie, but they included a post-credits scene hinting that next time, they'd actually do the characters justice. (there are a ton of examples like that, but these were the first ones that came to mind)

Regardless of what they're planning, it's not going to come to fruition if people don't like the game enough to continue playing and supporting it.

 

[Schnee117]

The way I see it. Story is paramount to good entertainment. A good story, not an amazingly mind blowing one, just a good one, is and should be absolutely required to get invested in an experience be it a game or a film or anything

A "good" story really isn't necessary.
Sometimes I just want to be wacky yahoo plumber man jumping on turtles and that's perfectly fine. I'm not playing mainline Mario games for the story, it's the intricate platforming mechanics that I'm in for. Rosalina's storybook in Galaxy was excellent, but it's on the side for a reason.

Like the first 3 Paper Marios and the first 3 M&L games all exist if you want "depth"

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Dunno if this would be considered a hot take or not

But every Mii costume that's from a series with no musical representation yet should always get one, especially if they're going to license the music for the trailer anyway :/

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Dunno if this would be considered a hot take or not

But every Mii costume that's from a series with no musical representation yet should always get one, especially if they're going to license the music for the trailer anyway :/

The Tekken music used in Heihachi’s segment is a BOP, I wish his costume came with that song

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Dunno if this would be considered a hot take or not

But every Mii costume that's from a series with no musical representation yet should always get one, especially if they're going to license the music for the trailer anyway :/

Not sure why it would be a hot take. That sounds like a great idea. They’ve already shown a willingness to license a single track for a Mii costume.

 

[Wademan94]

The way I see it. Story is paramount to good entertainment. A good story, not an amazingly mind blowing one, just a good one, is and should be absolutely required to get invested in an experience be it a game or a film or anything

It entirely depends on the medium. All you’re doing in a movie or film is watching it, so story is more of a priority there whereas a game is an experience you’re playing and controlling and as such it should prioritize its gameplay before its story. A good story does not save a bad game like it would for something like bad animation.

 

[Rangez]

The X-Men and Dr. Doom were cut because Disney was petty as hell and didn't want to give FOX any ounce of money or profit. Now that they own FOX, that issue is long gone (Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 proves that). In fact right now, Marvel and Capcom seem to be doing alright enough to release brand new arcade machines with all the previous MvC games up until MvC1. MvC2 has a likelyhood of getting rereleased because of this year being it's 20th anniversary. They know the audience wants more Marvel vs. Capcom, just not what the mess that MvC:I was.

Picture this: They announce the rerelease of MvC2 for all platforms, then they tease Marvel vs. Capcom 4 with just the logo and the 4 is the Fantastic 4 logo, only to then have three claws shred up the logo to symbolize Wolverine being in the game. "Mahvel" be back with something like that.

Personally speaking, I don't see us getting another MvC game for a very long time from now. The stories about Infinite's developement and Marvel being overcontrolling with the game as a whole makes me feel there's a bit of bad blood that's developed between the two companies.

 

[Schnee117]

Dunno if this would be considered a hot take or not

But every Mii costume that's from a series with no musical representation yet should always get one, especially if they're going to license the music for the trailer anyway :/

Imagine having Assassin's Creed content in your game but not adding music from it.
Like
There's
So
Many
Good
Choices

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Let’s not forget the Capcom side of MvCI’s roster sucked too. No Clover Studio characters, removal of 3 iconic villains from UMvC3, only 2 of the 9 female characters in MvC3 made a return, only 2 Street Fighter characters, no Phoenix Wright, only 2 new characters on the base roster, and the only new series introduced to the roster is through the paid DLC character Monster Hunter.

 

[osby]

It entirely depends on the medium. All you’re doing in a movie or film is watching it, so story is more of a priority there whereas a game is an experience you’re playing and controlling and as such it should prioritize its gameplay before its story. A good story does not save a bad game like it would for something like bad animation.

I get what you mean but there are some video games that should be prioritizing the writing, like visual novels and graphic adventure games.

 

[Speed Weed]

Dunno if this would be considered a hot take or not

But every Mii costume that's from a series with no musical representation yet should always get one, especially if they're going to license the music for the trailer anyway :/

i tell ya what, those ****ers were teasing me when they played this during the virtua fighter miis' trailer

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Dunno if this would be considered a hot take or not

But every Mii costume that's from a series with no musical representation yet should always get one, especially if they're going to license the music for the trailer anyway :/

Vault Boy better come with Little Lies or Country Roads, I won't take any other options

 

[zeldasmash]

Personally speaking, I don't see us getting another MvC game for a very long time from now. The stories about Infinite's developement and Marvel being overcontrolling with the game as a whole makes me feel there's a bit of bad blood that's developed between the two companies.

I think Marvel was as controlling as they were because apparently Disney had a chokehold on Marvel. With FOX now under their belt and the arcade things they are doing with Capcom, I do agree that it won't be for a long while, but the possibility is there.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Vault Boy better come with Little Lies or Country Roads, I won't take any other options

I'm about to do some business with the Big Iron on my hip if you don't edit this post to include that song.

 

[Dark Bagel]

I think Marvel was as controlling as they were because apparently Disney had a chokehold on Marvel. With FOX now under their belt and the arcade things they are doing with Capcom, I do agree that it won't be for a long while, but the possibility is there.

If MvC does come back in the future, let's just hope they come back strong, complete with a strong starting roster, and heavy coat of stylization to help set it apart aesthetically a la MvC3. Maybe this time around they'll have a colorful, poppy psuedo-2D feel to it, who knows. In any case, we know that general looks and lack of a strong artstyle seriously hurt Infinite, amongst numerous other things.