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[drag0nscythe]

I don’t buy the whole “They’re too violent for Smash”, when literally Bayonetta grinds angels up into a bloody pulp, Snake snaps necks and shoots people, etc.

I personally don’t think MK characters will happen. It’s not that they can’t, I just don’t think they will.

The logic of Joker using a “fake gun” kinda falls apart when you realize that the average consumer will look at the move called “Gun” as a move in which the character fires a weapon that looks like an actual gun. It’s a gun.

Like, will there be blood and gore in Smash. Uh, no. That’s not happening. That’s not the style. But series hat have violence in them that currently aren’t in Smash (DOOM, Resident Evil, etc) will be fine. Saying at this point that characters who use guns are disqualified when we literally have characters who use guns in Smash, I think it’s silly.

This isn’t even acknowledging the fact that Snake still uses realistic explosives like RPGs and grenades. Sure, the difference is explosive vs. firearm...but I personally think that’s pretty weak justification, even by Sakurai.

Basically, I just don’t see Sakurai holding back on DOOM or RE just because, “they use a gun”.

It is not the gun that is the problem. It is the series they herald from. Bayo may have violent games, but they are stylized to the point of obfuscation. Doom is meant to feel real. Mk is meant to look real. Those are supposed to be exaggerated real violence. There is a difference. Even metal gear, which tries to be real has this level of goofy that swarms the entire product.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

It doesn't matter if you fly off the Handel as long as you come Bach.

That pun was so cheesy and sincere it should be a line in Steven Universe.

 

[TheCJBrine]

A meme will bread excitement. That is what happens. Genuine is hard to define. Undertale is rather meh of a game. He is a meme and always has beem given how his character is used and portrayed by the masses. (Which is treated as a meme)

Dude, just admit you don’t like Sans. A lot of people love Undertale, it even got huge in Japan with Sans getting good positions on fan Smash ballots even.

Just because a character is a meme, doesn’t mean people don’t actually like them. Heck, even people who don’t actually know a character outside of memes would probably like to see them anyway.

I guess the Undertale fans who love the Megalovania and Sans memes are just fake fans.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It is not the gun that is the problem. It is the series they herald from. Bayo may have violent games, but they are stylized to the point of obfuscation. Doom is meant to feel real. Mk is meant to look real. Those are supposed to be exaggerated real violence. There is a difference. Even metal gear, which tries to be real has this level of goofy that swarms the entire product.

I can tell you from experience playing DOOM that nothing about it is meant for it to feel “real”. You’re a jacked space marine that blows up aliens on Mars, and then you go to the Underworld and kill more, with your fists.

Hard disagree there my friend. I don’t see it that way.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Dude, just admit you don’t like Sans. A lot of people love Undertale, it even got huge in Japan with Sans getting good positions on fan Smash ballots even.

Just because a character is a meme, doesn’t mean people don’t actually like them. Heck, even people who don’t actually know a character outside of memes would probably like to see them anyway.

I guess all the Undertale fans who love the Megalovania and Sans memes are just fake fans.

People can be fans of memes. Does not change what they are.

I can tell you from experience playing DOOM that nothing about it is meant for it to feel “real”. You’re a jacked space marine that blows up aliens on Mars, and then you go to the Underworld and kill more, with your fists.

Hard disagree there my friend. I don’t see it that way.

Which is a fair arguement. But presentation of doom 3 and onward was more realism. The doom marine would be perfect in mk. He fits perfectly there.

If we need a fos character, someone like master chief would work.

Doom marine is on the level of duke nukem. Would you argue for the duke?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It is not the gun that is the problem. It is the series they herald from. Bayo may have violent games, but they are stylized to the point of obfuscation. Doom is meant to feel real. Mk is meant to look real. Those are supposed to be exaggerated real violence. There is a difference. Even metal gear, which tries to be real has this level of goofy that swarms the entire product.

My dude do you still ignore Injustice and how it managed to tone down Scorpion, Raiden and Sub-Zero in an T rated game?

Also the case of DC being gritty and violent if that's the case why wasn't Injustice rated M then such as rather then heat lasering through Shazam's head blowing his brains out only burned through his skull?

 

[Arcanir]

The whole 'this character is a meme' bit really needs to stop. People don't support characters to that large of an extent just for an internet bandwagon, they support characters because they genuinely want them in and/or think they would be interesting characters due to their history/moveset ideas/etc. Doom is no different, it's a franchise with a long history that many have played over the years that has just got a resurgence with Doom 2016, and across that it's garnered a large group of people who love it and want the character and franchise for many different reasons. Whether it's because it has nostalgia for them, they like the character, they think he'd be a fun inclusion, they think its history and influence gives it a place among the Parthenon that Smash has created, or they just want to see Doomguy duking it out with Snake and Mario they genuinely want that character. Writing that all off as 'what a meme pick' is just writing off those genuine reasons people want a character with a generic and easy-bake phrase. It doesn't say anything about why the character shouldn't be in, it just shows that you don't like the character and want to dismiss them in any way that you can.

If you don't want the character or support them, that's fine, we all have characters that don't interest us. However, do not write off why many people want to see a character, it's a poor way of discussing why you don't want the character and it shows you don't care at all for why people support them.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Wait... we're having an argument about so called "meme characters", and Steve isn't the victim for once?

well, I see y'all are improving ever so slightly

 

[Lollipopped]

Doomguy us just a meme at this point. He is so much not smash, that people want him.

I'm sorry but what the **** did I just read

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm gonna leave this debate and argument. Don't think anything will go through and don't want to keep going into circles.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

It is not the gun that is the problem. It is the series they herald from. Bayo may have violent games, but they are stylized to the point of obfuscation. Doom is meant to feel real. Mk is meant to look real. Those are supposed to be exaggerated real violence. There is a difference. Even metal gear, which tries to be real has this level of goofy that swarms the entire product.

Hm, yes, a guy in full armor singlehandedly slaughtering all of Hell's demons and casually ****ing ripping huge ass demons apart with his bare fists with collectable power-ups that grant supernatural abilities to his projectiles is "grounded in reality".

The extreme nature of the new Doom makes your argument fall on its head because that very extremity lends itself toward somewhat outlandish and zany things being done with said violence.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I guess Geno is just a meme pick and no one really likes him.

“Super Mario-OOHH RPG, it is the only one just for meeee. When I play the game, I get lost in a faze; then I find out I’m stuck in Geno’s Maze!”

“YO SMITHY!”

some guy on gamefaqs: “lol who’s Geno? is he from EarthBound?”

People can be fans of memes. Does not change what they are.

Oh, well in that case, I guess this argument is pointless because people still like and want the characters so there’s no need to shrug them off and insult fans by saying “they’re just a meme, that’s all they are” as if that would ever be necessary anyway.

 

[drag0nscythe]

My dude do you still ignore Injustice and how it managed to tone down Scorpion, Raiden and Sub-Zero in an T rated game?

Also the case of DC being gritty and violent if that's the case why wasn't Injustice rated M then such as rather then heat lasering through Shazam's head blowing his brains out only burned through his skull?

They turned them into super heros. That was the way around it. The dc games still had hyper violence in them, but they shifted the realism towards more comic book antics. It worked, but it was not mortal kombat.

 

[Deleted member]

I find it kinda weird that there are people who say MK can't be goofy when this is a thing that exists:

Also Johnny Cage's entire existence.

Not to mention this here in Doom:

Yes, those games can be dark and gritty, but they aren't all that serious that they're made out to be.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Doom marine is on the level of duke nukem. Would you argue for the duke?

Again, hard disagree. Duke Nukem is basically dead, especially because he’s a parody of the FPS genre. DOOM isn’t comparable considering it’s the grand dad of the FPS genre.

Did Halo perfect the FPS genre? I’d argue that, yes, it did. However, I don’t think any comparison of DOOM to Duke Nukem is genuine.

Really, Duke is one of the biggest gaming memes of all time, probably on par with Waluigi in terms of the memes created or shared.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Hm, yes, a guy in full armor singlehandedly slaughtering all of Hell's demons and casually ****ing ripping huge *** demons apart with his bare fists with collectable power-ups that grant supernatural abilities to his projectiles is "grounded in reality".

The extreme nature of the new Doom makes your argument fall on its head because that very extremity lends itself toward somewhat outlandish and zany things being done with said violence.

All painted with a realistic brush. Avengers movies have them in space, but it is painted to be real. New doom has a cheekyness to it, but the game plays its violence real.

I guess Geno is just a meme pick and no one really likes him.

“Super Mario-OOHH RPG, it is the only one just for meeee. When I play the game, I get lost in a faze; then I find out I’m stuck in Geno’s Maze!”

“YO SMITHY!”

some guy on gamefaqs: “lol who’s Geno? is he from EarthBound?”

Ok.

Again, hard disagree. Duke Nukem is basically dead, especially because he’s a parody of the FPS genre. DOOM isn’t comparable considering it’s the grand dad of the FPS genre.

Did Halo perfect the FPS genre? I’d argue that, yes, it did. However, I don’t think any comparison of DOOM to Duke Nukem is genuine.

Really, Duke is one of the biggest gaming memes of all time, probably on par with Waluigi in terms of the memes created or shared.

Wont argue about youe duke assessment. He is a relic, but doom is style hyper violent for a reason.

When mk vs dc came out, it was decreed as not mk because no fatalities were fatal. It was considered baby mortal kombat. That is what the series are known for. Their violence. Take that away and we have a farce. Like meme boy.

I find it kinda weird that there are people who say MK can't be goofy when this is a thing that exists:

Also Johnny Cage's entire existence.

Not to mention this here in Doom:

Yes, those games can be dark and gritty, but they aren't all that serious that they're made out to be.

Mk friendship was to mock the censor police. and doom moment is awesome.

 

[Deleted member]

Always remember: Genesis Denesis What Nintendenesis

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

All painted with a realistic brush. Avengers movies have them in space, but it is painted to be real. New doom has a cheekyness to it, but the game plays its violence real.



Ok.

Hm... Yes. And you mean to tell me Metal Gear isn't painted with a realistic brush, then?

I seriously don't get what you're even arguing at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

So, apparently Mega Man and the various Robot Masters can not only age, but also grow a beard. This is a thing that exists:
Team Shachi X Mega Man

 

[drag0nscythe]

Hm... Yes. And you mean to tell me Metal Gear isn't painted with a realistic brush, then?

I seriously don't get what you're even arguing at this point.

Metal gear is painted with a real brush, just not a brutal one. There is a difference between the violence presented in doom and metal gear.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Oh boy, I see I came back at the perfect time for another fun and original debate!

 

[Deleted member]

I love how some people talk about Doomguy being too brutal for Smash when Quake is already enough proof of him actually working without the extreme violence.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Oh boy, I see I came back at the perfect time for another fun and original debate!
View attachment 238081

What you talking about. This is not original. I did not come her for originality. I cam here for an argument

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Hm, yes, a guy in full armor singlehandedly slaughtering all of Hell's demons and casually ****ing ripping huge *** demons apart with his bare fists with collectable power-ups that grant supernatural abilities to his projectiles is "grounded in reality".

The extreme nature of the new Doom makes your argument fall on its head because that very extremity lends itself toward somewhat outlandish and zany things being done with said violence.

It’s gone full on MK with its violence, in that it’s ridiculous and over the top. Seriously, it’s not realistic just because you actually see the blood.

It’s a commonality in “adult” media. People think it’s mature just by having blood and j*** and swearing everywhere. When in actuality that makes it extremely juvenile. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with liking it. But don’t try to tell me it’s more mature.

 

[Metal Shop X]

What you talking about. This is not original. I did not come her for originality. I cam here for an argument

I think Twitter & GameFAQs would be more of your liking then.

Just sayin'.

 

[drag0nscythe]

It’s gone full on MK with its violence, in that it’s ridiculous and over the top. Seriously, it’s not realistic just because you actually see the blood.

It’s a commonality in “adult” media. People think it’s mature just by having blood and j*** and swearing everywhere. When in actuality that makes it extremely juvenile. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with liking it. But don’t try to tell me it’s more mature.

Hyper violence is goofy at times, but it all falls to presentation. How are the viewers and actors in the acene supposed to react to the violence. If they react like real people, no matter the goofiness, we are to take it seriously. If the violence is shrugged off, like the black knight, then the audience is supposed to look at it as humor

Doom was serious. New doom straddles the line.

I think Twitter & GameFAQs would be more of your liking then.

Just sayin'.

Did not get the reference. Cant win them all.

 

[Deleted member]

Metal gear is painted with a real brush, just not a brutal one. There is a difference between the violence presented in doom and metal gear.

Well yes but actually no.

While Doom and Metal Gear display violence differently yes, they still have violence. Saying that DOOM shouldn't get in because of the level of violence when Snake and other characters(mainly the Villain characters) are much worse(looking at Bowser in particular, he's turned Toads into blocks to die before) is delusional.

Hell, Sakurai couldn't just tone down the gore? Didn't think of that, did you?

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, I’m probably the person who dislikes the Doom series the most out of everyone on this site.

But even I have to admit that the character can work in Smash even if he isn’t as brutal as in Doom 2016 (a game I personally disliked due to the level design anyway).

Seriously: don’t waste time trying to deconfirm characters just because you dislike them. Let Sakurai add whoever he wants and if you seriously want to not see a DLC character on the roster... just don’t buy it if you are that desperate.

 

[Deleted member]

Doomguy presumably went back to hell just to avenge his pet rabbit. Taking on the literal forces of hell to avenge a rabbit doesn't sound like that serious of a story to me. Also the BFG, they sure had fun with that acronym.

Like sorry, but I can't see Doom as being serious.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

So, apparently Mega Man and the various Robot Masters can not only age, but also grow a beard. This is a thing that exists:
Team Shachi X Mega Man

Capcom. That’s..... that’s not how robots work.... Capcom...... your frustrating Steven.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Doomguy presumably went back to hell just to avenge his pet rabbit. Taking on the literal forces of hell to avenge a rabbit doesn't sound like that serious of a story to me. Also the BFG, they sure had fun with that acronym.

Like sorry, but I can't see Doom as being serious.

Its a headcanon of mine that Doom Slayer is the reincarnation of John Wick.

You know pets named daisy (Rabbit and Beagle) they went out of their way to avenge.

 

[Deleted member]

Mk friendship was to mock the censor police. and doom moment is awesome.

So I just saw you edited your above post there so let me ask you a simple question to both those statements: and? Like, how does that in any way invalidate the non-seriousness of those instances?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Well yes but actually no.

While Doom and Metal Gear display violence differently yes, they still have violence. Saying that DOOM shouldn't get in because of the level of violence when Snake and other characters(mainly the Villain characters) are much worse(looking at Bowser in particular, he's turned Toads into blocks to die before) is delusional.

Hell, Sakurai couldn't just tone down the gore? Didn't think of that, did you?

Turning toads into blocks to die is very cartoony and was a throwaway line. And why tone down the violence? It is doom.

I mean, I’m probably the person who dislikes the Doom series the most out of everyone on this site.

But even I have to admit that the character can work in Smash even if he isn’t as brutal as in Doom 2016 (a game I personally disliked due to the level design anyway).

Seriously: don’t waste time trying to deconfirm characters just because you dislike them. Let Sakurai add whoever he wants and if you seriously want to not see a DLC character on the roster... just don’t buy it if you are that desperate.

I am totally going to waste my time. At work.
I am not yelling at sakurai. He does not read this board. I am debating the fine people here. There is a difference.

So I just saw you edited your above post there so let me ask you a simple question to both those statements: and? Like, how does that in any way invalidate the non-seriousness of those instances?

For mk. Did friendships come back? Last i remember, they were gone. For doom, it helps your arguement, but even really bad horror movies have scenes of levity.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Hyper violence is goofy at times, but it all falls to presentation. How are the viewers and actors in the acene supposed to react to the violence. If they react like real people, no matter the goofiness, we are to take it seriously. If the violence is shrugged off, like the black knight, then the audience is supposed to look at it as humor

Doom was serious. New doom straddles the line.



Did not get the reference. Cant win them all.

Kinda hard to understand a reference to a show you never watched.

Tho

I do remember someone referencing your reference a few days ago, which referenced the show you were trying to reference with me.



...

...So yeah, what a reference.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

No offense intended, but this is exactly the kind of **** that frustrates me with Smash speculation. We’ve got the Director saying, “I’m making this game the best it can be because one of my best friends [Iwata] made that a final request to me.” I’m obviously paraphrasing here, but my point is more that this guy is aiming to make the game the best it can be, yet here we are arguing about “X Y and Z can’t get in Smash because violence” based on arbitrary rules.

In general I think a good portion of Smash fans are going to get BTFO with DLC, again. Basically just because no matter what he says about the collaboration, or the fact that he can make the game the biggest it can be, people still stick with the picks we’ve talked to death for 4-5 years. People harp on the same rules. Same things that “keep characters out” of Smash.

 

[Gyrom8]

All this talk about who is and isn't a meme and I can't stop thinking about this video

 

[Deleted member]

Its a headcanon of mine that Doom Slayer is the reincarnation of John Wick.

You know pets named daisy (Rabbit and Beagle) they went out of their way to avenge.

I admitted never watched any of the John Wick sequels. I'm not much of a movie watcher, though I heard John Wick 2 is pretty hit or miss?

 

[Flyboy]

They should put Heihachi in Smash because I wanna see a grumpy old man noogie Kirby to death.

 

[PsySmasher]

OK really? We’re seriously having this discussion...

Look I honestly don’t give a **** about Doomguy. Don’t really want him in Smash either.

But calling him a meme is... literally the worst argument I’ve heard against him.

Violence can be toned down. If there’s anyone that can faithfully adapt a character into the style of Smash, it’s Sakurai.

And being a super serious series (which many people have pointed out that DOOM isn’t), isn’t really an excuse either.

If you’re a video game character with a decent legacy/popularity, you can get into Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Doomguy presumably went back to hell just to avenge his pet rabbit. Taking on the literal forces of hell to avenge a rabbit doesn't sound like that serious of a story to me. Also the BFG, they sure had fun with that acronym.

Like sorry, but I can't see Doom as being serious.

Honestly, that’s also another reason why I dislike the Doom games in general.

They care way too little about the plot and character developments, just using those regards as non-obligatory unlockables or straight on goofing with them. While I don’t mind the idea... the problem is that they use that mentallity as an awful excuse to not give any care about the level design at all. Each level in 2016 was just so freaking boring for me because they were way too out of life besides the obligatory enemies. No CPUs, no attractive and memorable gimmicks respective to each one of them, no interest on making the player want to explore the whole thing... NOTHING. Just an empty map that players have to speed through to get to the end while defeating enemies blocking the way every time.

I completely prefer how the Metroid Prime trilogy and Duke Nukem 3D managed the level design way more over how Doom handles it. Eternal could potentially change that once and for all, but after trying the first 2 games and 2016 with the same amount of dissapointment in the end I will personally wait to see what non-biased people tell about its level design before picking it.