Smash Wii U So yeah. I'm not impressed by Smash Wii U. What do you think?

[RascalTheCharizard]

Anything else? Wolf's defining move is his bair after all. I guess his DACUS, Scarring and down smash are significant, but bair is his bread and butter. Its safe on block, fast, has KO power, can combo *sometimes*, low ending lag, disjointed hitbox, etc. Its the perfect move.

His Blaster and Reflector are arguably his two best moves that aren't Bair and are great for pressure relief, zoning and damage building.

 

[MrHazuki]

The people who actually think that Nintendo will listen AT ALL are sadly mistaken. The Invitiational was not some kind of platform for feedback, it is advertisement. Nintendo is a filthy company that never has and never will listen to the fans.

 

[Saito]

The people who actually think that Nintendo will listen AT ALL are sadly mistaken. The Invitiational was not some kind of platform for feedback, it is advertisement. Nintendo is a filthy company that never has and never will listen to the fans.

Is this bait?

I think this is bait guys.

 

[Reila]

The infamous problems with Brawl never bothered me, aside from tripping, which was removed. So what do I think? I am still getting the game, regardless of what people say about it. It looks beautiful and fun and even if the competitive crowd ****s on it like they do with Brawl, I am pretty sure I will still have a blast playing the game.

 

[Hong]

Goodness gracious that was a horrible experience.

I could have kept playing after about half an hour but that will be all for me today. I would like to think that as someone who plays all three games (have not tried PM), and plays Melee in both competitive and FFA with items with friends, I could find at least some enjoyment in there.

Hope the product sees serious revision before it ships so it can be at least a fun party game. Thankfully this build was probably readied in April or May and there is still time to improve things.

 

[LancerStaff]

That's the problem with metagames based entirely around glitches. They get fixed and people whine, whine, whine. You people honestly think Sakurai had any idea how Wavedashing would effect the metagame? No. I doubt he even thought there'd be a metagame.

You people complaining that SSB4 is closer to Brawl because there's no Melee techs, where's the Brawl techs? Gone. Melee techs? Gone. Compare a techless Melee, a techless Brawl, and SSB4, and you'll see that the core mechanics of 4 are right between the two.

 

[D-idara]

The people who actually think that Nintendo will listen AT ALL are sadly mistaken. The Invitiational was not some kind of platform for feedback, it is advertisement. Nintendo is a filthy company that never has and never will listen to the fans.

Nintendo are artists who are the only people left that make videogames from the heart.

 

[User33]

Goodness gracious that was a horrible experience.

I could have kept playing after about half an hour but that will be all for me today. I would like to think that as someone who plays all three games (have not tried PM), and plays Melee in both competitive and FFA with items with friends, I could find at least some enjoyment in there.

Hope the product sees serious revision before it ships so it can be at least a fun party game. Thankfully this build was probably readied in April or May and there is still time to improve things.

This post sure seems legit.

 

[rawrimamonster]

Is this bait?

I think this is bait guys.

It's true though, anyone whose been gaming 20+ years like myself knows that unless it's a strong STRONG well placed complaint done by many people (like #freemelee), Nintendo will just continue on and do whats best for them and their shareholders. Nintendo isn't your best buttbuddy, they're a corporation.

By direct comparison of #free melee, just look at how #free brawl went...or is that still ongoing? Because I dont hear nothing about it anymore. :S Whatever, I said my piece. Either way it goes to show that Nintendo does not listen unless more money is involved.

 

[Hong]

This post sure seems legit.

What, want the recording I took before I played?

Not like I have much of a reason to lie. I am not a Nintendo detractor and will probably still buy both versions because I am a sucker for a game with lots of collectibles.

 

[Teran]

glitches

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's true though, anyone whose been gaming 20+ years like myself knows that unless it's a strong STRONG well placed complaint done by many people (like #freemelee), Nintendo will just continue on and do whats best for them and their shareholders. Nintendo isn't your best buttbuddy, they're a corporation.

By direct comparison of #free melee, just look at how #free brawl went...or is that still ongoing? Because I dont hear nothing about it anymore. :S Whatever, I said my piece. Either way it goes to show that Nintendo does not listen unless more money is involved.

Yeah because one with thousands of dollars donated for a charity vs just letting brawl at some places.

It's not the same.

 

[Falconv1.0]

That's the problem with metagames based entirely around glitches. They get fixed and people whine, whine, whine. You people honestly think Sakurai had any idea how Wavedashing would effect the metagame? No. I doubt he even thought there'd be a metagame.

You people complaining that SSB4 is closer to Brawl because there's no Melee techs, where's the Brawl techs? Gone. Melee techs? Gone. Compare a techless Melee, a techless Brawl, and SSB4, and you'll see that the core mechanics of 4 are right between the two.

Sure is cool when people make really scrubby arguments that we've had easy answers for since ****ing 2002. Techs are not a glitch.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This thread is getting stupid.

Can we all just agree to wait?

 

[Minty_]

It looks amazing. I love it. I want to marry it. I want it's babies.

 

[TheKk-47]

Can someone please tell me why Sakurai doesn't just use Melee gameplay? Honestly this is the best compromise. I went years playing Melee casually totally oblivious to wavedashing, dash dancing, tier lists, and L-cancelling. Everything was totally fine. My friends and sisters played with items on on wacky stages and had fun. But now I know about these techs(quite easy too) I still have fun . Just turn on items and pick a wacky stage for casuals, then turn them off and go to legal stages for competitive like I do in Melee/PM. Or just learn the techs, they're not that hard. Why is this so difficult?

 

[Ulevo]

This thread is getting stupid.

Can we all just agree to wait?

You can close it if you feel the need to. I'm satisfied.

Can someone please tell me why Sakurai doesn't just use Melee gameplay? Honestly this is the best compromise. I went years playing Melee casually totally oblivious to wavedashing, dash dancing, tier lists, and L-cancelling. Everything was totally fine. My friends and sisters played with items on on wacky stages and had fun. But now I know about these techs(quite easy too) I still have fun . Just turn on items and pick a wacky stage for casuals, then turn them off and go to legal stages for competitive like I do in Melee/PM. Or just learn the techs, they're not that hard. Why is this so difficult?

Plot twist:







It isn't.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Not everyone likes melee gameplay.

Or aspects of it. Keep Wavedashing if you want it, but no thanks to l-canceling or crouch canceling.

 

[LancerStaff]

Sure is cool when people make really scrubby arguments that we've had easy answers for since ****ing 2002. Techs are not a glitch.

No, 'techs' is a fanmade term that means nothing. Take a note from the Metroid sequence breakers, who won't fly out into a frenzy should you call something a glitch or exploit. In fact, they're interchangeable and people think that other people who think they're not interchangeable are kooks.

Can someone please tell me why Sakurai doesn't just use Melee gameplay? Honestly this is the best compromise. I went years playing Melee casually totally oblivious to wavedashing, dash dancing, tier lists, and L-cancelling. Everything was totally fine. My friends and sisters played with items on on wacky stages and had fun. But now I know about these techs(quite easy too) I still have fun . Just turn on items and pick a wacky stage for casuals, then turn them off and go to legal stages for competitive like I do in Melee/PM. Or just learn the techs, they're not that hard. Why is this so difficult?

Because it'd be a lazy solution and there'd be plenty who don't want it. Me, for example.

 

[Teran]

This thread is getting stupid.

Can we all just agree to wait?

The next year will be the hardest modding period you will come across for another 6 years. I'm rooting for you

 

[Ulevo]

Not everyone likes melee gameplay.

Or aspects of it. Keep Wavedashing if you want it, but no thanks to l-canceling or crouch canceling.

On this note, I think everyone should read this, because it explains the root importance of all this, and why people are having a problem with Smash Wii U already:

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/27wshi/praxis_reply_to_what_makes_a_game_competitive_and/

Good read.

 

[NocturnalQuill]

Attitudes like this are precisely why Nintendo doesn't listen to the competitive Smash community. No matter how close it is to Melee, no matter how much they try to compromise to please both casual and competitive audiences, they will never, ever be happy unless it's Melee with updated graphics. The sped up gameplay and For Glory mode are Nintendo's way of trying to make SSB4 more competitive while keeping the casual audience happy. Given the fact that Smash's casual audience vastly outnumbers its competitive audience, the fact that Nintendo (a major corporation with vast amounts of money on the line no less) is essentially sacrificing profits on a system that is already crashing and burning to appease a small but dedicated portion of its audience speaks volumes about their character.

Things like Wavedashing were never intended to be utilized in the way that they were, Sakurai himself has even said this. It was an exploit. In other competitive games, things like this are quickly patched without ceremony. As someone who plays other games competitively (Dota 2 is my competitive game of choice, and even its toxic community doesn't complain as much), I can safely say that removing exploits is a very common practice. Nobody ever complains

Demanding that every minute detail be made more competitive just to appease a minority of the community as a whole isn't just unrealistic, it's selfish. Nintendo doesn't have a responsibility to cater to you every whim, their job is to make a game that will be enjoyed by its intended audience. Even though Brawl had its shortcomings in my opinion (balance was atrocious), it was enjoyed by the bulk of its players, with a vocal minority in the competitive community decrying it. If Smash 4 was very similar, I would understand.

Sakurai is doing his best to make a game that is enjoyable for all. His job isn't to make a game that caters specifically to a small portion of the community. I love you guys when you're actually content, but I swear to god I want to choke you guys sometimes. This must be what it's like to have kids.

 

[chipz]

On this note, I think everyone should read this, because it explains the root importance of all this, and why people are having a problem with Smash Wii U already:

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/27wshi/praxis_reply_to_what_makes_a_game_competitive_and/

Good read.

It would be nice
but honestly, they're not going to market the game towards the vocal minority

 

[Joe73191]

I played it at bestbuy smashfest. It is very very very much like brawl. Not really a hybrid or in between or anything like that, just plain old brawl without tripping.

 

[World]

I find people saying we can properly judge a literally unstable game we've had our hands on roughly for a day ridiculous. Add in the fact Brawl underwent major rehauls between a demo and the release and Sakurai may very well be listening to the constructive feedback, people making the assumption that this will be the final game are just begging to be wrong.

They sponsored the first Smash 4 tournament, made an adapter for Gamecube controllers, and had the grand
final match at the Invitational be without items with Smash tournament commentators.

But all of that support is going to be wasted if this game does not have the gameplay necessary to foster a
growing competitive scene similar to what occurred with Brawl.

I hope you're right in that Sakurai will take constructive feedback into account.

 

[Doser]

No matter how close it is to Melee, no matter how much they try to compromise to please both casual and competitive audiences, they will never, ever be happy unless it's Melee with updated graphics.
<mindless garbage based off on nothing>

Don't bother posting if all you are going to do is strawman.

 

[LancerStaff]

Don't bother posting if all you are going to do is strawman.

You clearly haven't met the people who actually think this. I've had to be in close quarters with them for some time, unfortunately.

 

[Ulevo]

Attitudes like this are precisely why Nintendo doesn't listen to the competitive Smash community. No matter how close it is to Melee, no matter how much they try to compromise to please both casual and competitive audiences, they will never, ever be happy unless it's Melee with updated graphics. The sped up gameplay and For Glory mode are Nintendo's way of trying to make SSB4 more competitive while keeping the casual audience happy. Given the fact that Smash's casual audience vastly outnumbers its competitive audience, the fact that Nintendo (a major corporation with vast amounts of money on the line no less) is essentially sacrificing profits on a system that is already crashing and burning to appease a small but dedicated portion of its audience speaks volumes about their character.

Things like Wavedashing were never intended to be utilized in the way that they were, Sakurai himself has even said this. It was an exploit. In other competitive games, things like this are quickly patched without ceremony. As someone who plays other games competitively (Dota 2 is my competitive game of choice, and even its toxic community doesn't complain as much), I can safely say that removing exploits is a very common practice. Nobody ever complains

Demanding that every minute detail be made more competitive just to appease a minority of the community as a whole isn't just unrealistic, it's selfish. Nintendo doesn't have a responsibility to cater to you every whim, their job is to make a game that will be enjoyed by its intended audience. Even though Brawl had its shortcomings in my opinion (balance was atrocious), it was enjoyed by the bulk of its players, with a vocal minority in the competitive community decrying it. If Smash 4 was very similar, I would understand.

Sakurai is doing his best to make a game that is enjoyable for all. His job isn't to make a game that caters specifically to a small portion of the community. I love you guys when you're actually content, but I swear to god I want to choke you guys sometimes. This must be what it's like to have kids.

This post screams of ignorance, I'm sorry. You're acting like Nintendo has done our sector of the community a favor when the game is basically mechanically Brawls doppleganger. It plays absolutely nothing like Melee. They couldn't be further apart. Don't try to play it off like they made an effort and people are being spoiled about it.

 

[NocturnalQuill]

Don't bother posting if all you are going to do is strawman.

I'm not strawmaning. I'm pointing out my issues with the Smash community as a whole. I'm not claiming that every individual member of the community holds this exact view, but there is no denying that this is the message we're sending as a whole, and that we're only shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

On this note, I think everyone should read this, because it explains the root importance of all this, and why people are having a problem with Smash Wii U already:

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/27wshi/praxis_reply_to_what_makes_a_game_competitive_and/

Good read.

I agree with it in aspects, but again I'm still not a fan of the doomsday talk while we don't have the final game.

 

[Doser]

You clearly haven't met the people who actually think this. I've had to be in close quarters with them for some time, unfortunately.

No one in this thread is talking about 'Melee 2.0' except random people coming in and yelling that we are. I don't care if you know people who are making the argument, but purporting that we believe the same thing despite evidence to the contrary is being outright dishonest.

I'm not strawmaning. I'm pointing out my issues with the Smash community as a whole. I'm not claiming that every individual member of the community holds this exact view, but there is no denying that this is the message we're sending as a whole, and that we're only shooting ourselves in the foot.

No, you are doing the classic strawman. In fact you began with 'attitudes like this' as if you are saying that anyone who is disappointed in the demo is childish and unreasonable. If you had read this thread or similar no one has mentioned they want every minute detail to be the same as Melee. Instead you come in here and act as if you can read our minds or that we are all secretly lying about what we want. When you respond in a thread it's best to actually respond to what people are talking about instead of this mythical message you seem to think we are broadcasting.

I also don't see how we are shooting ourselves in the foot by wanting them to make something more fast paced, with combos, edgeguards, and viable offensive play. The fact is that so far Smash 4 does not seem to be at all a balance between Melee and Brawl but instead is almost entirely inspired by Brawl. This forum is a fansite centered on competitive play, it should be expected that it is a disappointment to a lot of us.

Also the argument that we cannot be upset despite Nintendo doing something to maximize profits is ridiculous, there is a huge difference between understanding why they do something and being content with it.

 

[LancerStaff]

This post screams of ignorance, I'm sorry. You're acting like Nintendo has done our sector of the community a favor when the game is basically mechanically Brawls doppleganger. It plays absolutely nothing like Melee. They couldn't be further apart. Don't try to play it off like they made an effort and people are being spoiled about it.

Take out Melee's glitches and compare. Sakurai made SSB4 closer to Melee, in a sense you didn't want. A literal genie, if you will.

No one in this thread is talking about 'Melee 2.0' except random people coming in and yelling about something no one is talking about. I don't care if you know people who are making the argument, but purporting that we believe the same thing despite evidence to the contrary is being outright dishonest.

Question: Will you ever be happy with a SSB game without Wavedashing, L-canceling, Melee's ledge physics, Melee dashdancing and all that? People got just that with PM and still aren't satisfied.

 

[Teran]

I don't necessarily care about wavedashing, but lowering aerial lag is really something that Smash needs. Doesn't even need to be L cancelling, just have the lag be inherently low, it's the same end result.

 

[Ulevo]

And just because I'm honest, I'm going to come out and say it. Melee 2.0 with updated graphics, stages, and the works, would be absolutely mind blowingly awesome. And ironically most of you complaining about it would enjoy it just as much (possibly a little bit more) than the alternative we're getting.

Not like anyone's arguing this, and maybe it's not your personal wet dream, but it'd be cool if once in a while people stopped pretending like wanting a real Melee sequel is a crime, and something to not be talked about. Let's not forget the reason we're all here.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Threads like this make me hate liking every smash game but smash 64, I hate what people can do on both side but also like what people say on both sides.

It sucks :/

 

[NocturnalQuill]

This post screams of ignorance, I'm sorry. You're acting like Nintendo has done our sector of the community a favor when the game is basically mechanically Brawls doppleganger. It plays absolutely nothing like Melee. They couldn't be further apart. Don't try to play it off like they made an effort and people are being spoiled about it.

The reason this game doesn't play like Melee is because it isn't supposed to play like Melee. Ever since as early in development as I can remember, the developers said in interviews that the pace of the game would be somewhere between Melee and Brawl. Looking at the gameplay footage, it's clearly a bit faster than Brawl but still slower than Melee. I don't get why everyone is up in arms suddenly. I'm sorry, but you did come of as a bit selfish in your post. Only a very small minority of the whole smash community as a whole actually enjoyed mechanics like wavedashing, and calling SSB4 a bad game because they didn't incorporate the features you specifically wanted does come off as selfish.

 

[D-idara]

This post screams of ignorance, I'm sorry. You're acting like Nintendo has done our sector of the community a favor when the game is basically mechanically Brawls doppleganger. It plays absolutely nothing like Melee. They couldn't be further apart. Don't try to play it off like they made an effort and people are being spoiled about it.

Because they are totally not making an effort by encouraging showfloor atendees to give feedback on the gameplay?

 

[Ulevo]

Take out Melee's glitches and compare. Sakurai made SSB4 closer to Melee, in a sense you didn't want. A literal genie, if you will.



Question: Will you ever be happy with a SSB game without Wavedashing, L-canceling, Melee's ledge physics, Melee dashdancing and all that? People got just that with PM and still aren't satisfied.

No, he actually didn't, LancerStaff. If you knew the mechanics of Melee outside of L-Cancelling and Wavedashing, you'd know better.

And why would we be satisfied about having to create our own game as a solution to being alienated? Are you blind?

 

[Saito]

On this note, I think everyone should read this, because it explains the root importance of all this, and why people are having a problem with Smash Wii U already:

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/27wshi/praxis_reply_to_what_makes_a_game_competitive_and/

Good read.

That's pretty accurate.

Posting this part here, so I can grab it anytime I need it as well since it's highly representative of this side.

 

[Teran]

Threads like this make me hate liking every smash game but smash 64, I hate what people can do on both side but also like what people say on both sides.

It sucks :/

How can you hate OG Smash?