So why is Lucario currently being ranked so high?

[Shack]

I have seen multiple lists saying that Lucario is currently one of the top characters in the game. Why? I mained him back in Brawl and I feel like the nerf to his fairs and range on fsmash make him harder to play and combo with. Is there something I have not seen people do with him yet? Or is it just because of his aura buffs?

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

His Aura Buffs, his recovery, he can actually still combo, hes faster than he was in brawl.

 

[Masonomace]

His Double Team acts out on frame 4 now. That's why he's top tier~
(Lol I'm kidding. . .but I'm not)
I'll give several points:

• Aura is overtuned to the max. Smash4cario's Aura boost occurs much quicker in just one stock's time. Rage adds fuel to the fire as well
  
  
• His recovery scaling in distance accordingly to his Aura's level is a bit overwhelming for players who can't gimp Lucario let alone edge-guard, because there's no such thing as edge-guarding Lucario when he's at high %
  
  
• His Aura Sphere camp-game is a much stronger tool in this game with the whole bad landings in SSB4. Force Palm Flame buffed to be a good zoning tool at mid-long range when at high Aura is a factor to take into as well

 

[RT]

He has some of the makings of a top tier, but he still has some glaring flaws and bad matchups that prevent him from being the top of the list. But then again, unless someone actually plays as him, they don't know what they are saying. And he's still not as easy to play compared to other characters.

I already said it before, if he's so good or "broken," please go win more tourneys with him. It's sooooooooo easy, right?

 

[Kami~]

His Aura Buffs, his recovery, he can actually still combo, hes faster than he was in brawl.

He's not better because he's faster and he's hardly faster than he was in brawl

 

[Kami~]

He has some of the makings of a top tier, but he still has some glaring flaws and bad matchups that prevent him from being the top of the list. But then again, unless someone actually plays as him, they don't know what they are saying. And he's still not as easy to play compared to other characters.

I already said it before, if he's so good or "broken," please go win more tourneys with him. It's sooooooooo easy, right?

Have to agree with this so much, people only see the good parts. They don't play him and feel some of the helpless moments and struggles

 

[Rickster]

People were already complaining, but it got a lot worse when ZeRo got salty and let it loose on Twitter.

 

[Tyril132]

I have seen multiple lists saying that Lucario is currently one of the top characters in the game.

Out of curiosity, from who? It's one thing if a group of a couple of pros are debating characters on their competitive merits... but the vast majority of players aren't playing on a high enough level to really benefit from tier lists.

Honestly, tier lists are an easy way to escape responsibility for losing by blaming it on the character or match-up, but the simple truth is that most people are being held back by their skill as a player. The only way you're benefiting from a tier list is if you've sufficiently mastered a character to the point where you're playing near their full potential.

 

[Shack]

Yeah so I guess the claims are coming form non Lucario mains. He feels a lot harder to play compared to brawl. Yes he's got some buffs, but

Out of curiosity, from who? It's one thing if a group of a couple of pros are debating characters on their competitive merits... but the vast majority of players aren't playing on a high enough level to really benefit from tier lists.

Honestly, tier lists are an easy way to escape responsibility for losing by blaming it on the character or match-up, but the simple truth is that most people are being held back by their skill as a player. The only way you're benefiting from a tier list is if you've sufficiently mastered a character to the point where you're playing near their full potential.

ZeRo and some japanese ones a little earlier.I know what Tier lists are, just wanted information on why Lucario had been getting high rankings lately since to me he feels weaker than in Brawl.

 

[EnGarde]

Well...I know discussing tier lists is taboo in this forum, but I like to watch the eventhubs tier list (link), which places lucario at #7 overall. I'll fully admit that this list is likely flawed because it also places Lucina (#13) higher than Marth (#15), which I've heard is not true.

If nothing else, it gives me an understanding of which chars people currently THINK are good. So, I would say that yeah, people think Lucario is good.

 

[Pitbuller26]

People think Lucario is good until they actually play AS him. Then you realize just how hard it is to do things and see how his extreme Aura is needed.

Anecdotally, my Lucario and Zelda have about the same win rate but Lucario has a higher one. Yet I feel it's much easier to win with Zelda of all characters due to how bad Lucario's range is.

 

[Tyril132]

ZeRo and some japanese ones a little earlier.I know what Tier lists are, just wanted information on why Lucario had been getting high rankings lately since to me he feels weaker than in Brawl.

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to insinuate that you rely on them, merely voicing why I'm not a fan of them. I asked because, to be frank, I had a feeling it was probably ZeRo... and after the temper tantrum he threw over twitter, he's pretty much the last person I'd trust to accurately rank Lucario.

Spoiler: Quotes from twitter

So, in this case... I'd have to agree that it's probably because they haven't played him enough to understand his limitations.

 

[CrimsonFireWolf]

there a different of playing Lucario good,(Knowing how to the aura boost & being skill of using the move-set well),
or playing it badly(being cheap by just spamming Aura Sphere a-lot & /or using lucario poorly by being KO all the time).
but some non-lucario player may not see that & think that lucario is easy way to win a match.

 

[Golden Sun]

His forward smash attack has the ability to KO almost anyone at 70-90 damage if half charged to full.

 

[hichez50]

I think lucario is good in this game, but I don't see why more people don't play him. I don't think he has that high of a learning curve( could be some bias going on though). i have played some high level player in my state in brawl and smash4 and they casually choose lucario and do alright.

I guess he just proves that people just like combos more than actually knocking your opponent out of the blast zones.

Also I will trade early percent combos which only combo'd up to ~20-30% for the increase in aura any day.

 

[Golden Sun]

I think lucario is good in this game, but I don't see why more people don't play him. I don't think he has that high of a learning curve( could be some bias going on though). i have played some high level player in my state in brawl and smash4 and they casually choose lucario and do alright.

I guess he just proves that people just like combos more than actually knocking your opponent out of the blast zones.

Also I will trade early percent combos which only combo'd up to ~20-30% for the increase in aura any day.

His counter can easily be countered and do a smash attack, plus his forward smash is pretty slow, his up smash almost has no range if u even be next by lucario, the only move I see that is a pretty KO move is down smash.

 

[RT]

It's also playstyle preference as well. Having to take damage in order to kill is something that goes against the "don't get hit" philosophy of all fighting games. When was the last time you saw a Lucario at 0% gimp a good player?

Also, a lot of moves aren't safe at low percents. It's not until he gets higher Aura do some moves become safe even on block.

 

[Shack]

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to insinuate that you rely on them, merely voicing why I'm not a fan of them. I asked because, to be frank, I had a feeling it was probably ZeRo... and after the temper tantrum he threw over twitter, he's pretty much the last person I'd trust to accurately rank Lucario. [

So, in this case... I'd have to agree that it's probably because they haven't played him enough to understand his limitations.

Ha thats funny, I didn't see him post that. And regardless, I remember seeing a Japanese list that had him ranked pretty high. I guess it probably is the aura buff. I'm not gonna lie, if tourneys allow custom moves I will probably just run the slow Aura Sphere and max out his defense so I can abuse his aura at high percents haha.

 

[smashbroskilla]

lol@ those zero quotes

 

[Tyril132]

His counter can easily be countered and do a smash attack, plus his forward smash is pretty slow, his up smash almost has no range if u even be next by lucario, the only move I see that is a pretty KO move is down smash.

Most of his kill moves are easily punishable. However, it's also worth noting that Back-air and Force Palm are also reliable kill moves, though the latter can be hard to use properly against some match-ups.

 

[chaos_Leader]

Lucario Bair is a reliable kill, if you can land it. It's like I said somewhere before: Lucairo's Bair takes so long to wind up and lasts for so few frames, that if it does land, either the opponent wasn't paying attention and deserves to be KOed, or the Lucario player got the mother of all reads and deserves to have that KO.

FP is also a reliable kill, if Lucario is in grabbing range.

It's kind of a common theme with Lucario, that all of his reliable kill options come with strings attached, and not just "he has to be at high % to kill" either. I personally have gotten, if not a majority, than a large plurality of my kills with Lucario by ASing my opponent when they're off-stage.

Then again, after all the practice I've put in, I've become a frighteningly deadly shot with Aura Sphere. Seriously though, I've pulled off shots that required either blind luck, or really good predictions/reading against the opponent.

 

[Nysyr]

Sounds about right. 50% Special move kills 48% Smash attacks and 2% from aerials when I look at my stats.

As for the tier listing, he will probably drop a bit at some point, he has some really hard matchups *cough*Villager*cough*.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to insinuate that you rely on them, merely voicing why I'm not a fan of them. I asked because, to be frank, I had a feeling it was probably ZeRo... and after the temper tantrum he threw over twitter, he's pretty much the last person I'd trust to accurately rank Lucario.

Spoiler: Quotes from twitter

So, in this case... I'd have to agree that it's probably because they haven't played him enough to understand his limitations.

Isn't that guy considered one of the best smash players? Yet he complains like an amateur.

Lucario is strong, but he does not reward poor play, he rewards staying alive. He is stronger in Smash 4 but he also dies quickly. Once your damage meter goes 100% you are powerful but you are also extremely vulnerable to being launched into the blastzone.

 

[Rakath]

It also depends the format of your play. There's a point in all For Glory matches where Aura Sphere gimps people. This is a mix of AS being buffed, airdodges being nerfed, and FD being FD. On Battlefield this would not be a thing.

Also, getting beat up at the start of a match as Lucario isn't always being outplayed. I have just let Link shoot me with arrows until I was at 'AS trumps arrows' percent. But the fact that they failed to realize this was on them.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Ya he's very overpowered. Hope he gets nerfed more soon. I mean they nerfed sheik and yet she was a lot easier to fight then lucario.

 

[hichez50]

Ya he's very overpowered. Hope he gets nerfed more soon. I mean they nerfed sheik and yet she was a lot easier to fight then lucario.

You haven't seen the fox or little mac MU. Anyone that has a super fast neutral game can beat lucario.

 

[Zol]

the roles of Lucario and Captain Falcon changed a lot for me

back in brawl, i'd use lucario for MUs i couldnt win as CF, now it's the other way around.

i can't seem to get my hands on pacman as lucario, meanwhile i can rush him as CF pretty easily

i'm hoping the matchup aint as bad as i think it is and i'm just doing something wrong (not camping hard enough), i can't stand seeing pacman though

 

[Browny]

Your sig is the best thing on this website

 

[Zol]

Your sig is the best thing on this website

thanks bruh

 

[Tyril132]

Ya he's very overpowered. Hope he gets nerfed more soon. I mean they nerfed sheik and yet she was a lot easier to fight then lucario.

I, too, hope that characters are nerfed entirely on subjective whims instead of things like actual strengths or weaknesses.

 

[DD_]

I, too, hope that characters are nerfed entirely on subjective whims instead of things like actual strengths or weaknesses.

#CapcomBalencing

 

[RAzul]

Sounds about right. 50% Special move kills 48% Smash attacks and 2% from aerials when I look at my stats.

As for the tier listing, he will probably drop a bit at some point, he has some really hard matchups *cough*Villager*cough*.

LOL! This made me laugh as a Villager main myself. Villager is so wacky and difficult to get a handle of in that MU from what I think. I'm looking to make Lucario my secondary. Never was interested in him in Pokémon or Smash but now, I'm really coming to like him.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

the roles of Lucario and Captain Falcon changed a lot for me

back in brawl, i'd use lucario for MUs i couldnt win as CF, now it's the other way around.

i can't seem to get my hands on pacman as lucario, meanwhile i can rush him as CF pretty easily

i'm hoping the matchup aint as bad as i think it is and i'm just doing something wrong (not camping hard enough), i can't stand seeing pacman though

Pac-Man's grab is garbage. His Up B screams "hit me". Also you can shieldgrab in between the hits of his Dash Attack. Be aware of his limits and he is super easy.

 

[RAzul]

Pac-Man's grab is garbage. His Up B screams "hit me". Also you can shieldgrab in between the hits of his Dash Attack. Be aware of his limits and he is super easy.

Thank you for this. I didn't know you could shield grab during his multi hit dash.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Thank you for this. I didn't know you could shield grab during his multi hit dash.

Lucario's standing grab comes out in 6 frames. With hitlag you sure can do a lot of silly grabs.

 

[Kami~]

It's easy to even jump out between the shielded multi hits, also a lot of chars can jab it too on block

and as I was typing this I think lucario may even be able to counter between hits but that might be pushing it

 

[Pitbuller26]

It feels weird not having a terrible standing grab anymore. Maybe it's because I'm grabbing extended hurtboxes from opponents' moves but it's like Lucario can pseudo-kara grab from the distance he land those grabs.

 

[|RK|]

I've gotta say... after spending time reading various topics on this board, Lucario really is more of a "side-complain" character. Like, he'll usually be brought up as high tier, but in terms of being straight up broken or #1, he won't be mentioned. I'm starting to believe that the real issue people have with Lucario is ideological... he does have matchups that aren't the greatest, and many people are capable of beating him. It's just that they like to complain about his aura being unfair, just as they will with rage.

That's just what I think.

 

[Browny]

I've gotta say... after spending time reading various topics on this board, Lucario really is more of a "side-complain" character. Like, he'll usually be brought up as high tier, but in terms of being straight up broken or #1, he won't be mentioned. I'm starting to believe that the real issue people have with Lucario is ideological... he does have matchups that aren't the greatest, and many people are capable of beating him. It's just that they like to complain about his aura being unfair, just as they will with rage.

That's just what I think.

Damn straight, just as its ALWAYS been.

Children: 'I dont like that your character gets more powerful with more damage'
Lucario mains: 'I dont like that YOUR character is more powerful right from the start'
Children: 'yeah but -' argument over, brain damage will result by continuing this debate.

Doesnt help when people like zero say that 'aura rewards bad play', because if you played perfectly and rarely got hit, aura actually punishes good play by making you perpetually weaker!

Not like hed have half a brain to figure that one out though