So....who can't Zair because of online lag?

[Darkhart]

I always find myself on the ground before the animation could start.

 

[Tudor]

i really don't like online smash... =(

 

[Calixto]

I heard somewhere down the grapevine that with the European release of Brawl they were going to attempt to fix some manner of algorithm in the game to reduce lag?


I thought I read it in an interview somewhere. Should help out things like this.

 

[n00b]

Nah, only time I can't zair is after a nair.. nair->zair would be great, but it always makes me airdodge. Any help?

 

[Crystanium]

It varies. In one online match, I could perform a z-air quite well, whereas in another online match, it may not work out so well. If I can't strike Kirby with a z-air while online, there's a problem.

n00b, it looks to me like you know that after a n-air, that z-air can't be performed. There isn't any help. However, you can perform a z-air and then a n-air. This assumes you have done a double jump and executed the n-air shortly after z-air. It's practically useless.

 

[Rohins]

i really don't like online smash... =(

true dat

Nah, only time I can't zair is after a nair.. nair->zair would be great, but it always makes me airdodge. Any help?

instead of just hitting Z hit L+Z or R+Z. You can always grapple during an airdodge. You can also double tap Z but I find pressing one of the shield buttons to be faster.

 

[Subach]

I find that missile canceling is even harder to do as it requires more precise timing than a z-air.

 

[Gum]

dude, i can hardly move on wifi sometimes. Feels like moving through molasses. very bad times.

 

[Pi]

It's all about timing, it's not that you can't, you just gotta put the button input as you would normally, instead of relying on your reactions.


And yea, online play...gah...the one thing that could have saved it for me...


You could just get into the habit of L/R+A (or L/R+Z as Rohin's said), that way you'll always zair when you want to. I like to air-dodge into them some times though ^^

 

[Gum]

ugh, im just terrible on wifi period.

 

[Subach]

ugh, im just terrible on wifi period.

Hopefully, the rumored fixes for the PAL version of Brawl will have positive effects for those of us living in America.
I hope it isn't something to do with the game itself, unless Nintendo is going to offer replacement discs.

 

[0RLY]

There are some characters that were meant to be played on wifi... then there's Samus. I can zair online, just not with the precision I could have offline. I mash X>R>(pause)>Z. I abuse Samus' ability to use two aerials in a short hop. So my zairs only come after an airdodge.

 

[Paradigm]

At first I had problems with a lot of Samus' stuff online and used other characters like Marth more often. After a while, however, I got the hang of it.

The key, for me at least, was learning to time things based on when they should happen in relation to each other rather than what is happening on the screen.

So if you want to time it such that Samus lands just as the zair is fully extended, try to learn how long after you press jump you'll need to wait before you press Z (offline). Get it so you can do this "blindfolded" without using her position on screen as a reference. When playing online, time the zair like this in reference to when you *pressed* jump even if she doesn't jump for 10~20 frames.

I've found projectile spammy characters like Samus, TL and Pit tend to dominate online when it gets laggy once they get this down. It's one thing to learn to time your moves without using your character as a reference and it's an entirely different thing to time your moves without referencing your _opponent_. **** near impossible to powershield online if it gets laggy, even with Brawl's huge powershield window.

I'd much prefer to play in person, or if I do play online then do so with someone else who is close enough to get smooth gameplay, but it's still possible to use most of Samus' toys in a laggy environment.

 

[Crystanium]

I did a multi-man brawl today with three other people, and I couldn't perform my z-air at all. Whenever I try to do a short hop, I jump high instead. It doesn't make any sense. That could be one of the reasons why I don't do so well on Wi-Fi when going up against my friends. Other than that, if there is a ledge like at Battlefield or Yoshi's Island, or if my opponent is in the air, I have a better chance of connecting the z-air.

 

[Tetsuro]

I wish Z-air was the least of my problems online. I can barely ledge hop properly, I think my wifi just sucks, because whenever I try to ledge hop into Fair it comes out WAY too late and I end up unintentionally DIing under Final Destination. The worst part is I am not even holding the control stick forward when this happens. In fact, all of my moves seem to come out way too late, I really hope Nintendo fixes things.

 

[Hive]

yea online really kills timing for samus, especially hard when that's what she relies on....
;_( and its always those really annoying button mashing moves that take advantage of lag that win the 4v4 ... like that stupid wario bike [*...*]

 

[Pi]

I do pretty well online.


The thing is, you have to actually...practice...online play. You have to get used to it. The delays, the timing for moves. It sucks, it does, but it's better than facing computers.

I have to continually remind myself that while something may not be possible online, I shouldn't neglect it from my gameplay because it might still be viable in a real life battle (smash that is, lol).

The characters I do have a hard time against on wifi though, are the ones that are fast. The real noticeable one is sonic, because while in real life he is fast, you can still react to him, even stop his running or his forward B with a jab, or a forward smash,

But online, the button delay is such that in a lot of situations you just can't react that fast, and he gets the hit in, which in the case of forward B leads into another aerial.

Personally, I dislike online play, I think they did a horrible job on the set up, it's extremely cumbersome for me in particular to find matches because I don't have a wifi connection and have bought the LAN adapter and have to continuously disconnect my modem from my wii back up to my computer so I can chat on allisbrawl.com to get myself a match. Luckily my school is providing me a laptop for 'school work' so I can place it as close as I need to to my wii to make things a little easier. Unfortunately the school year ends in 20 or so more days and then I'll have to change rooms with the modem and hook it up entirely instead of just disconnecting the Ethernet from the wii and connecting it to the laptop and restarting it.

Oh boy I've gotten off topic, any way, I think they did a horrible job with finding matches, but the button delay I can understand some what.

A lot of the games we play may seem smooth, when in reality there is quite a large delay from when we input data to when our opponents know we input data. With brawl this input becomes more noticeable because instead of only our opponent seeing our input lag, we too see it, which makes the playing field equal, but delayed. I'm not sure if they could do anything about this, actually I'll ask that as a question, can anything be done for this or are we SOL?



Okay for real this time, I think they did a bad job at finding matches, that surely could have been changed, but I do believe that vs. matches online are more important to participate in than playing computers. Now, I don't think this would be so in melee because technical skill brought you a great deal further than in brawl, but the reality is that in brawl winning a match boils down to whose knowledge of human opponents is greater than technical skill.


So yea...delayed online play > computers in brawl >.>
I could have just said that...

 

[Hive]

....Okay for real this time, I think they did a bad job at finding matches, that surely could have been changed, but I do believe that vs. matches online are more important to participate in than playing computers. Now, I don't think this would be so in melee because technical skill brought you a great deal further than in brawl, but the reality is that in brawl winning a match boils down to whose knowledge of human opponents is greater than technical skill.


So yea...delayed online play > computers in brawl >.>
I could have just said that...


WELL SAID!

 

[Jeremy Smith]

i know this is a total noob question but what is z air?

 

[Subach]

i know this is a total noob question but what is z air?

Z-air is simply using the grapple beam in the air, it happens one of Samus's very best moves for racking up damage, approaching and spacing.

 

[Jeremy Smith]

o ok cool, thanks i didnt know u could attack with it thats sounds pretty neet and as im trying to use samus lately its good to know

 

[Crystanium]

Jeremey Smith, z-air causes 4% damage on your opponent, and if your opponent is on the ground, it can cause him/her to trip. If your opponent is damaged enough, the z-air can knock him/her back. I saw in a video from Tudor where he was at Battlefield, and in the beginning, he ran off the platform he was on and used his z-air immediately thereafter. It hit his opponent. I can't say that will work 100% of the time.

 

[Tudor]

Dryn thanx for always giving me credit... but really you don't have to! But i really appreciate it =)

If you want to kill with zair, then there are a few things you need to keep in mind.
-Your opponent needs to be pretty close to either the left or right side
-Hopefully you didn't spam it TOO much during your current life
-You are going to need to sweet spot it, this means hitting with the very very tip. That way it will have much more knock back than normal and will give 7% instead of 4%
-It also helps if your opponent has bad DI or just isn't expecting it at all (and i don't see why they would expect such a crazy tactic! lol)

I've killed people @ less then 100 damage with it, I also have some really nice vid's of me sweet spoting the zair 3 times across the stage to a kill.... but i don't want to spoil my (hopefully) soon comming out montage video!

 

[Rohins]

...my (hopefully) soon comming out montage video!

oh ****! When can we hope to see this?

 

[Tudor]

oh ****! When can we hope to see this?

Well i have a lot of footage.... and not a lot of time =/

But i'll do my best to get it done ASAP!, if anything i might have a short really cool one or something, or maybe just amazing combos but not a lot of editing, dunno

 

[Dobs1007]

Zair is sweet I've recently been messing around with it. Real good as an edge guard on Space Animals(Falco, Fox, Wolf) if you can get timing right. Also 3 zairs in row followed by running of stage dair I have been able to pull off a few times for sweet low damage kills. Also Tudor look forward to the montage video.

 

[Tudor]

Zair is sweet I've recently been messing around with it. Real good as an edge guard on Space Animals(Falco, Fox, Wolf) if you can get timing right. Also 3 zairs in row followed by running of stage dair I have been able to pull off a few times for sweet low damage kills. Also Tudor look forward to the montage video.

Sounds like a sweet combo and thanx.

So i've been zair ing a lot... and i find it best to just use z because it's so fast i really can't afford to lose a split second airdodging. I know, i know, you guys are gonna say "but tudor, you can't do it imediately after an arial attack". Well to that i say, just tap L a split second before you ussually zair with z and you're set. It seems like a good solution, at least for me anyways.

About my montage... it might end up being completely different than you would expect =D

Just let me finish going through this outdated 40 hours of vids =/

 

[Undrdog]

Just throwing this in as an addition to what Tudor said; it's also nearly impossible to Powershield the Zair through reactionary means. Meaning it's very difficult to see the Zair start, then Powershield it. Reactionary Powershielding is what my entire game is built around and Jasona's Samus has completely ruined that approach for me.

 

[Tudor]

Just throwing this in as an addition to what Tudor said; it's also nearly impossible to Powershield the Zair through reactionary means. Meaning it's very difficult to see the Zair start, then Powershield it. Reactionary Powershielding is what my entire game is built around and Jasona's Samus has completely ruined that approach for me.

Very true.

A little unrelated but have you tried using one of the new white Gamecube controllers imported from japan... they are really amazing and i was perfect shield 20 times + in a row. You should try one out maybe if it's a big part of your game, i won 2 at the last tourney i went to =)

 

[Undrdog]

I've been eying them for awhile now. My current controller is very crappy, and even in Melee my focus was on Powershielding. So needless to say Brawl's Powershielding is much easier then Powershielding Fox's Shine into a Peach Whorenado in Melee. /heh heh

Put in all honesty after hearing what you just mentioned I'll commit more to picking up one of these bad boys. Thanks for the tip! ^_^

 

[Tudor]

No problem!

Btw, i would really like to see some of you guys at the AZ one/two step tourney =D

 

[Dobs1007]

Quick tidbit about Zair I'm sure most know but doesn't hurt to say. If Samus is holding an item such as piece zss armor wario's bike a turnip what ever it is possible to zair use z without throwing item simply air dodge then zair. I'm sure most know this already. And Tudor AZ from PA is bit of trip... I maybe going to FAST and am trying to throw decent size tourney in my hometown near end July start of August.

 

[Tudor]

[sad face]