so is ike high tier then?

[PyroSpark]

Tiers Don't Exist

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yes, they do and Ike will be high tier.

Let me break it down.

- Ike has his AAA string that is reliable, quick, and does decent damage.

- Ike has 3 very good aerials.

-Nair comes out farly quick and covers in front, below and behind. It has NO LAND LAG. Can be done immediately after a short hop to hit his opponent. This is a huge asset since alot of aerials will miss when you try to jump and do them ASAP.

- Fair has decent start-up time and a bit of landing lag, but nothing too serious. Allows Ike to get the most use out of his range in the air. Very safe on block since it does alot of shield pushback. Ideal for spacing and keeping his opponent out. Great for controlling the area around him and for defensive play.

- Bair comes out very fast. One of his fastest moves and is a kill move. Very little land lag. Not much else to say. It's really good. Fast, strong and safe.

- Ike has quick draw for mobility. It has no lag when he uses it. Great for covering ground, quickly retreating or approaching. Also charging it affects the range it covers. So an Ike player who has knows how far Ike will go depending on how much his QD is charged will be very unpredictable.

- Aether out of shield punishes sloppy aerial approaches super hard. About 25% damage. Ouch.

-Ike can do U-throw to Aether at low percents. U-throw has less knockback then D-throw so it's better for combo purposes. The combo itself is around 30%.

- Ike can cancel his jab into a d-smash or an u-tilt. This is a combo and those are two of his kill moves. So once an opponent is at 120% just jab jab cancel into u-tilt/d-smash and they are gone. This means Ike has a reliable way to kill his opponents. YAY IKE!!!!

- U-tilt is great. Comes out pretty quick and the hitbox of the attack starts at Ike's feet so it won't miss shorter characters. Very little cool down lag. Ike's best tilt.

- While Uair isn't one of Ike's best aerials it is still decent. Useful for keeping opponent's in the air, although u-tilt is better.

- This goes without saying, but Ike is hard to kill since he is technically a heavyweight. But he is the fastest, most mobile heavyweight in the game and one of the most mobile characters in the game as well thanks to Quick Draw.

- Ike can gimp recoveries with Bair and Fair and to some extent his Eruption as well. I would imagine that ledge dropped Bair is pretty deadly as well for edge guarding.

- Ike outprioritizes everyone in the game. His range is so great and so is his power. His attacks will almost always overtake the attacks of others, except for the most powerful, like say a falcon punch.

- Ike has Super Armor Frames on some of his attacks, like his Jab combo for example, that helps him out. This makes it easier for him to be used in a defensive/counter attack manner. He can take a hit and dish it back out.

Ike's main weaknesses are that his other attacks that I didn't mention are too slow to really be of use and he is a bit of a slow runner. Also his recovery is below average and he can be gimped pretty easily when trying to come back to the stage.

So all in all he ends up being high tier in my book.

If I missed anything someone else can fill in the rest.

 

[Xtinction]

yess! high tier :D

 

[Hokkaido]

Yes, they do and Ike will be high tier.

Let me break it down.

- Ike has his AAA string that is reliable, quick, and does decent damage.

- Ike has 3 very good aerials.

-Nair comes out farly quick and covers in front, below and behind. It has NO LAND LAG. Can be done immediately after a short hop to hit his opponent. This is a huge asset since alot of aerials will miss when you try to jump and do them ASAP.

- Fair has decent start-up time and a bit of landing lag, but nothing too serious. Allows Ike to get the most use out of his range in the air. Very safe on block since it does alot of shield pushback. Ideal for spacing and keeping his opponent out. Great for controlling the area around him and for defensive play.

- Bair comes out very fast. One of his fastest moves and is a kill move. Very little land lag. Not much else to say. It's really good. Fast, strong and safe.

- Ike has quick draw for mobility. It has no lag when he uses it. Great for covering ground, quickly retreating or approaching. Also charging it affects the range it covers. So an Ike player who has knows how far Ike will go depending on how much his QD is charged will be very unpredictable.

- Aether out of shield punishes sloppy aerial approaches super hard. About 25% damage. Ouch.

-Ike can do U-throw to Aether at low percents. U-throw has less knockback then D-throw so it's better for combo purposes. The combo itself is around 30%.

- Ike can cancel his jab into a d-smash or an u-tilt. This is a combo and those are two of his kill moves. So once an opponent is at 120% just jab jab cancel into u-tilt/d-smash and they are gone. This means Ike has a reliable way to kill his opponents. YAY IKE!!!!

- U-tilt is great. Comes out pretty quick and the hitbox of the attack starts at Ike's feet so it won't miss shorter characters. Very little cool down lag. Ike's best tilt.

- While Uair isn't one of Ike's best aerials it is still decent. Useful for keeping opponent's in the air, although u-tilt is better.

- This goes without saying, but Ike is hard to kill since he is technically a heavyweight. But he is the fastest, most mobile heavyweight in the game and one of the most mobile characters in the game as well thanks to Quick Draw.

- Ike can gimp recoveries with Bair and Fair and to some extent his Eruption as well. I would imagine that ledge dropped Bair is pretty deadly as well for edge guarding.

- Ike outprioritizes everyone in the game. His range is so great and so is his power. His attacks will almost always overtake the attacks of others, except for the most powerful, like say a falcon punch.

- Ike has Super Armor Frames on some of his attacks, like his Jab combo for example, that helps him out. This makes it easier for him to be used in a defensive/counter attack manner. He can take a hit and dish it back out.

Ike's main weaknesses are that his other attacks that I didn't mention are too slow to really be of use and he is a bit of a slow runner. Also his recovery is below average and he can be gimped pretty easily when trying to come back to the stage.

So all in all he ends up being high tier in my book.

If I missed anything someone else can fill in the rest.

I think ALL of his aerials are actually incredibly useful. For the Up Aerial, you often just have to remember to release it a bit earlier than you normally would think, and most of the time it STILL out-prioritizes otherwise ridiculously strong aerial downwards approaches.

The Down Aerial is a meteor/spike (forgot which, but it rockets them downwards so s'pose no worries), and once I'd learned the timing, I've gibbed plenty of attempts at horizontal recovery.


On the other hand, I'm not sure about the Jab combo canceling into a U-Tilt or D-Smash. Do you mean that it combos naturally (meaning opponents wouldn't be able to escape between the AA and U-Tilt/D-Smash), or that it would be great for mixing up your game? I play Ike often, and though I've shield canceled my Jab combo occasionally, I've never tried following it up like that.

 

[Falconv1.0]

What area you live in? I'm going to be in the north east division for both. If we're notin the same division I'd def still want to fight you for brawl.

Nor Cal.

Erm, as for playing me, are you tourney level? I've actually only been in one tourney, I just feel the need to be knowledgeable in Smash...don't ask why.

I plan on maining Ike, and going to plenty of tourneys. I'd be willing to play you a week or so after the release.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It's a combo.

Jab jab shield cancel to d-smash. It combos.

 

[Zink]

It's a combo.

Jab jab shield cancel to d-smash. It combos.

quick, who remembers at what percent dmash KOs?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Kills at around 120-ish. But it also depends on how high or low the ceiling is.

 

[Fizz-sama]

My one question is though, at percents where dsmash will ko, does the kick from the AA combo push them back too much due to the higher percents, or does it have a certain amount of knockback/the dsmash comes out quick enough(I know it's fast either way)?

 

[Emblem Lord]

All jab combos have set knock back.

People, seriously.

I know it's hard for some of you to think that Ike could be awesome.

But the proof is here.

Ike can combo into a kill move.

He just got alot better because of this.

Don't sleep on Ike. He is nasty.

 

[Zink]

My one question is though, at percents where dsmash will ko, does the kick from the AA combo push them back too much due to the higher percents, or does it have a certain amount of knockback/the dsmash comes out quick enough(I know it's fast either way)?

iirc just AA won't do much knockback.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

This COULD be on a different forums.

All your getting your opinions from are possible Ike mains and some Marth mains. Not much of a discussion if you ask me...

But yeah, Ike does have the potential to be high tier. I've seen a few matches he he beats some marths and other characters, and the players are certainly not newbs or n00bs.

(tires don exits)

 

[Emblem Lord]

Well, this is about how Ike can be high tier and why, so I don't see why it would be on other forums.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Eh, just thought it could use other peoples opinions...

 

[Fizz-sama]

All jab combos have set knock back.

People, seriously.

I know it's hard for some of you to think that Ike could be awesome.

But the proof is here.

Ike can combo into a kill move.

He just got alot better because of this.

Don't sleep on Ike. He is nasty.

I really hope you didn't think I was jumping on Ike. Not once have I recalled anything I've said similar to down playing Ike. If I've misunderstood I apologize, but :/.

 

[Emblem Lord]

That was more towards every single hater in the community that says Ike sucks.

Which isn't true at all.

 

[Fizz-sama]

My apologies then.

Well, when they go crying about getting owned by Ike, they can't say they weren't forewarned.

 

[e105beta]

I think ALL of his aerials are actually incredibly useful. For the Up Aerial, you often just have to remember to release it a bit earlier than you normally would think, and most of the time it STILL out-prioritizes otherwise ridiculously strong aerial downwards approaches.

The Down Aerial is a meteor/spike (forgot which, but it rockets them downwards so s'pose no worries), and once I'd learned the timing, I've gibbed plenty of attempts at horizontal recovery.


On the other hand, I'm not sure about the Jab combo canceling into a U-Tilt or D-Smash. Do you mean that it combos naturally (meaning opponents wouldn't be able to escape between the AA and U-Tilt/D-Smash), or that it would be great for mixing up your game? I play Ike often, and though I've shield canceled my Jab combo occasionally, I've never tried following it up like that.

His up aerials are amazingly useful, I love them and I hate it how most Ike players don't seem to air chase. I only said it's his weakest game is because, it's just like everything with Ike, you need to get used to the start up timing and most players are not used to that at all.

Not so sure about the jab combo either. The third hit knocks them too far for a U-Tilt or a D-Smash to work.

Nor Cal.

Erm, as for playing me, are you tourney level? I've actually only been in one tourney, I just feel the need to be knowledgeable in Smash...don't ask why.

I plan on maining Ike, and going to plenty of tourneys. I'd be willing to play you a week or so after the release.

Hey, you seem to be at about my level. I've been to about 4 tourneys but I'm not amazing or anything, but I'd like to think that I am at a pretty high level of smash. I'd be able to play you around end of march...

All jab combos have set knock back.

People, seriously.

I know it's hard for some of you to think that Ike could be awesome.

But the proof is here.

Ike can combo into a kill move.

He just got alot better because of this.

Don't sleep on Ike. He is nasty.

People just put to much faith into their fast characters, none are able to see the true power of Ike. It's ignorant.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Hey, you seem to be at about my level. I've been to about 4 tourneys but I'm not amazing or anything, but I'd like to think that I am at a pretty high level of smash. I'd be able to play you around end of march...

I assume on Wi-Fi.

I'm like semi famous around Ike boards now, I've gotten atleast 5 people who want to play me.

Meh, as long as I have a few people to play, I'm cool with it.

 

[e105beta]

I assume on Wi-Fi.

I'm like semi famous around Ike boards now, I've gotten atleast 5 people who want to play me.

Meh, as long as I have a few people to play, I'm cool with it.

Of course on Wi-Fi, but hey, I'm Nor Cal too so who knows, I might unknowingly play you at a tourney.

It's probably because of all of the LONG threads you commit to.

I want to find more ppl to play on Smash Boards because random matches are only 4 free-for-all 2 minute 3 stock matches (i think)

 

[Falconv1.0]

Of course on Wi-Fi, but hey, I'm Nor Cal too so who knows, I might unknowingly play you at a tourney.

It's probably because of all of the LONG threads you commit to.

I want to find more ppl to play on Smash Boards because random matches are only 4 free-for-all 2 minute 3 stock matches (i think)

Yeah, I stay for the nub smashing. I start to leave when they die off. >

Well, the massive influx of scrubs seems to have ended, since the servers aren't screwy any more.

Hmm, you live around Sac or Elk Grove? My tourney takes place at Rancho Cordova.

 

[Mr.C]

There are a few characters that are EASILY gimped on the edge. Ike is probably top 3 easiest gimped characters in the game. You can pretty much throw him off at any % get in one aerial and hes dead.

This is just an example.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lvZl7VAaxlw

AND YES IT IS THAT EASY.

not saying hes a bad character...just warning the people who plan on using him in high-level competitive tourneys.....be prepared to have an average stock of 50-120% vs people who do not suck.

And I'm pretty sure I already stated in earlier comments Ike's best move is his a,a,a combo. You can a,a,utilt > a,a,grab,aether > a,a,dsmash, a,a,bair if the opponent messes up DI. But the most important thing about a,a,a is that you can do it out of shield if you are quick enough your opponent cannot recovery from aerials. Shield > a,a,dsmash. Its pretty dangerous to attack Ike's shield head on.

 

[Xtinction]

There are a few characters that are EASILY gimped on the edge. Ike is probably top 3 easiest gimped characters in the game. You can pretty much throw him off at any % get in one aerial and hes dead.

This is just an example.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lvZl7VAaxlw

AND YES IT IS THAT EASY.

not saying hes a bad character...just warning the people who plan on using him in high-level competitive tourneys.....be prepared to have an average stock of 50-120% vs people who do not suck.

And I'm pretty sure I already stated in earlier comments Ike's best move is his a,a,a combo. You can a,a,utilt > a,a,grab,aether > a,a,dsmash, a,a,bair if the opponent messes up DI. But the most important thing about a,a,a is that you can do it out of shield if you are quick enough your opponent cannot recovery from aerials. Shield > a,a,dsmash. Its pretty dangerous to attack Ike's shield head on.

woaaaa i seeeee........

that sucks!

 

[Mr.C]

Also, you can DI out of a,a,dsmash pretty much unless the opponent was like right next to your body when you start the a,a. If the tip of your fists hit you can DI out...or at least from experience thats what seems to be happening.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Erm, the guy in that game sucked, so the argument there is kinda dead. >_>

 

[Mr.C]

Erm, the guy in that game sucked, so the argument there is kinda dead. >_>

Him sucking or playing Chillindude has nothing to do with it. I just put that up as in example of how easy it is to gimp Ike off the stage. If that was Azen or Ken in the same situation of Ike being off the edge the same exact thing would of happened. Its not hard for someone to throw you off the stage wait until they waste their jump then intercept. lol

 

[Mr.C]

dub post swf!

 

[Xtinction]

double post! XD

 

[Falconv1.0]

Him "sucking" or playing Chillindude has nothing to do with it. I just put that up as in example of how easy it is to gimp Ike off the stage. If that was Azen or Ken in the same situation of Ike being off the edge the same exact thing would of happened. Its not hard for someone to throw you off the stage wait until they waste their jump then intercept. lol

But half of those deaths seemed to be more due the fact that he sucked, because in that situation, he just flat out sucked at recovery!

(Not arguing that he is easy to gimp, but please, either get a better vid or give up on this particular argument.)

 

[Mr.C]

Give up on the argument? lol...there is no argument. Ike is one of the easiest characters to kill in the game.

 

[Zankoku]

The Marth has a pretty good idea of how to do it at the very end of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL8b919vv4I

 

[e105beta]

There are a few characters that are EASILY gimped on the edge. Ike is probably top 3 easiest gimped characters in the game. You can pretty much throw him off at any % get in one aerial and hes dead.

This is just an example.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lvZl7VAaxlw

AND YES IT IS THAT EASY.

not saying hes a bad character...just warning the people who plan on using him in high-level competitive tourneys.....be prepared to have an average stock of 50-120% vs people who do not suck.

And I'm pretty sure I already stated in earlier comments Ike's best move is his a,a,a combo. You can a,a,utilt > a,a,grab,aether > a,a,dsmash, a,a,bair if the opponent messes up DI. But the most important thing about a,a,a is that you can do it out of shield if you are quick enough your opponent cannot recovery from aerials. Shield > a,a,dsmash. Its pretty dangerous to attack Ike's shield head on.

This is...this guy stinks. SKILL GET!

Erm, the guy in that game sucked, so the argument there is kinda dead. >_>

Agreed.

Give up on the argument? lol...there is no argument. Ike is one of the easiest characters to kill in the game.

No? Not really. Ike isn't that easy to hit off the stage in the first place, and if he's anywhere close to the stage, aether wins all.

 

[comboking]

well that Marth ***** that Ike .
still ike for high tier

 

[Emblem Lord]

Mr.C: I love you, but **** outta here son. ^_^

Ike is high tier.

 

[KosukeKGA]

In the Chillin movie....

The uploader claims that he IS a good Ike player. That match was just his day off at the time.

 

[Zink]

well, really, ike only has bad recovery if he's knocked down low AND away. if he has any vertical distance he can DI in and Aether to the ledge. with a lot of vertical distance he can air QD (although I suspect Aether is safer). and he's heavy enough that he won't get knocked away that easily.
that said, I do believe gimps can be a problem. stay away from edges at low percents. if you get gimped at a higher percent, you might get enough distance to DI under the ledge. remember that although QD can be blocked Aether really can't.

 

[Falconv1.0]

This is...this guy stinks. SKILL GET!



Agreed.



No? Not really. Ike isn't that easy to hit off the stage in the first place, and if he's anywhere close to the stage, aether wins all.

e10, you are my unofficial nemesis, you cant agree with me!!! =O

Meh, we'll have to wait til more people have the game...also, we have to wait a year. >_>

 

[CCC07]

ike will probably be middle tier. speed > power
speed usually dominates competive play.
and its hard for ike to fighte chars. with good projectiles like
snake. mine prevent ike's side b and grenades and missles hinders
ike's ability to get close.

 

[Gindler]

i'd say the lower end or the high tier or the higher end of the middle tier for ike.

Also, does anyone think yoshi being on the bottom tier of melee to be bogus, or was I the only yoshier that was any good?

 

[Falconv1.0]

i'd say the lower end or the high tier or the higher end of the middle tier for ike.

Also, does anyone think yoshi being on the bottom tier of melee to be bogus, or was I the only yoshier that was any good?

*Agrees with Ike statement

Erm, this thread has nothing to with Yoshi.