So... I now hate King DDD

[HeroMystic]

EDIT: People keep bumping this thread, so I'll explain that this is not how a truly feel about DDD players. I just need a John moment.

Just got done with a tournament, my very first one, and honestly, it was an experience I needed, but I gained a lot of negative feeling about it.

Originally, my first match was against Metaknight. However, people wanted to make some switches because they were forced to fight crew members. So then, I was switched. Originally, I was relieved, but then I ended up with something worse, and you guessed it. King DeDeDe.

I was unable to get someone to record the matches, but honestly, it was full of bull****. Here is what DeDeDe did, because I remember every bit of it because it was so freaken simple.

-Stay at the edge.
-Spam Waddle Dees, which makes fireballs useless.
-Jump in the air and spam B-air, makes Mario's aerial approach useless.
-Shield first attack done by Mario, chaingrab across the stage. (Up-B does not work. DeDeDe ****in grabbed my Mario while he was doing it)
-Rinse and ****in repeat.

There were times when I stopped his motion and I actually took him out. Whenever he used a different move it was easily punished. Not even U-tilt was able to hit me because I knew I saw it coming. So then he just went back to the same thing, and there was NOTHING I could do that allowed me to get close.

That said, I lost the first match by one stock. Second match, I was going to counterpick that ******* with Lylat Cruise, but he banned it. I wasn't aware that Brinstar was a bad DeDeDe stage either, but it didn't matter because he switched to Marth. I won that match. So then, he went back to DeDeDe, Yoshi's Island. Same **** happened again, except for when I was down to my last stock, at 10% freaken percent, he sucked me up and suicided, and I couldn't break out of it whatsoever. So I lost my FIRST ROUND against a ****in' DDD.

(I then fought three more matches in the loser's bracket, lost against Ness and I was glad I fought a good player)

Later on, I talked to my three friends. Turned out, in all the matches the DDD player faced, if he couldn't chaingrab the character (like Metaknight), he would completely suck. He almost lost to a Lucas player because of it, and lost to a Metaknight player later on. Then at the loser's bracket, he fought against my friend's Marth. Chaingrabbed him the entire time on Final Destination, and my friends and I were just looking at each other in disgust, and we were all seriously pissed because it was completely ******** a character has to rely on chaingrabbing to be GOOD.

The experience was needed though I guess. I'm now going to put Fox as my secondary to go against DDD. My Marth friend is going to play as Wolf. Nonetheless, we were all upset at the end of the day. We loved the tournament and all, but DDD definitely ruined the good experience.

 

[Matt07]

Dang, sorry to here that . I find it kind of ridiculous that they don't ban chaingrab infinites, on characters that can be infinited, (or limit amount of chaingrabs them) like, c'mon how many Mario's or Samus', Ness', or Lucas (Ness, and Lucas vs Marth-wise) is anyone going to fight in a tournament, no wonder their so scarce .

I also seriously Inhale move as well, especially when I lose a stock at like 30%?

I finished my rant.

 

[SkylerOcon]

So, this is more proof as to why chaingrabs should be limited to three throws.

Also, D3 can't grab you if you memorize his range and stay away. That's what I do.

 

[Matt07]

In other words, this is more proof as to why chaingrabs should be limited to three throws.

Except against, Metaknight , if he can even be chaingrabbed.

 

[HeroMystic]

So, this is more proof as to why chaingrabs should be limited to three throws.

Also, D3 can't grab you if you memorize his range and stay away. That's what I do.

And that would work if DDD's B-air wasn't freaken ridiculous. Mario's ground game is pure crap against DDD, and whenever I jumped, DDD jumped and spammed the living jesus out of B-air.

There was NOTHING I could do unless I baited that grab.

 

[Matt07]

Dang, just hearing about this stuff, gives me serious doubts how I can handle tournaments .

 

[hippiedude92]

Dam man, D3 ruining your tourney exprenice. But yes its one hell of a exprenice that you'll ever needed for the future. But IMO those would have been avoided if you just had exprenice and probably you got pissed off so your anger must of have gotten best of you.



-Stay at the edge.
-Spam Waddle Dees, which makes fireballs useless.
-Jump in the air and spam B-air, makes Mario's aerial approach useless.
-Shield first attack done by Mario, chaingrab across the stage. (Up-B does not work. DeDeDe ****in grabbed my Mario while he was doing it)
-Rinse and ****in repeat.


1) Cape, or powershield
2) Power shield your way and powershield the bair and shield grab
3) Fireballs and spacing.
4) Make him bow down lol

edit: make mk secondary lol or diddy kong/marth

 

[Criosphinx]

He wasn't ICG'd, he was regular chaingrabbed.

D3 can't generally kill with the chaingrab, so clearly he was good enough to hit you with a killing move / edgeguard. Don't understate his achievement. He beat you fairly, using the tools his character provided. Pure and simple, no johns.

if you were getting grabbed at every approach, clearly you weren't spacing correctly.

 

[CO18]

Uhh Switching from Marth to wolf is not a good thing for your friend... Marth Vs DDD is neutral, your friend just needs to get better.

DDD vs Wolf = DDD ****** the shiz out of wolf.

And wolf is chaingrabbable too if your friend didn't know.

 

[HeroMystic]

He wasn't ICG'd, he was regular chaingrabbed.

D3 can't generally kill with the chaingrab, so clearly he was good enough to hit you with a killing move / edgeguard. Don't understate his achievement. He beat you fairly, using the tools his character provided. Pure and simple, no johns.

if you were getting grabbed at every approach, clearly you weren't spacing correctly.

No. He did not kill me with an edgeguard, nor was he good enough to take me out with a killing me, but he chaingrabbed me so much that I was usually at 150% damage every time he tried to kill (which is MORE than enough for a DDD to take out Mario). As I've said before I lost the first match by ONE stock, and in the last match he DDDcided his second stock.

Fairly or not, the match was not fun. It was full of bull, and if you really think that DDD player was "good enough", read my entire post when I say that if the character wasn't chaingrabbed, he was crap. That's why he lost to Metaknight and got wrecked by a Fox player.

Call it johning, I don't care. I am upset and personally scarred by my first match and it was only intensified when I saw my Marth friend get mauled by the chaingrabbing as well.

I will value my first tourney as a good experience of what I know what I must do, and I value all the Mario mains here for giving me advice and I personally thank you for it.

I will apply it if I have to fight a similiar DDD.

 

[HeroMystic]

Uhh Switching from Marth to wolf is not a good thing for your friend... Marth Vs DDD is neutral, your friend just needs to get better.

DDD vs Wolf = DDD ****** the shiz out of wolf.

And wolf is chaingrabbable too if your friend didn't know.

Thanks about that. I'll go ahead and tell him that.

 

[Criosphinx]

No. He did not kill me with an edgeguard, nor was he good enough to take me out with a killing me, but he chaingrabbed me so much that I was usually at 150% damage every time he tried to kill (which is MORE than enough for a DDD to take out Mario). As I've said before I lost the first match by ONE stock, and in the last match he DDDcided his second stock.

Fairly or not, the match was not fun. It was full of bull, and if you really think that DDD player was "good enough", read my entire post when I say that if the character wasn't chaingrabbed, he was crap. That's why he lost to Metaknight and got wrecked by a Fox player.

Call it johning, I don't care. I am upset and personally scarred by my first match and it was only intensified when I saw my Marth friend get mauled by the chaingrabbing as well.

I will value my first tourney as a good experience of what I know what I must do, and I value all the Mario mains here for giving me advice and I personally thank you for it.

I will apply it if I have to fight a similiar DDD.

If he was so "crap" as you eloquently put it, then he definitely wasn't dashing shield cancel grabbing, which means that your marth friend didn't know to anticipate the dash grab and Up-B to interrupt. Similarly, if you were spacing your attacks correctly, an efficient Mario player could retreat his aerials and put shield pressure on D3 whilst staying out of grab range.

You are lucky the D3 player didn't know how to infinite you, or else you would be far more concerned.

 

[HeroMystic]

If he was so "crap" as you eloquently put it, then he definitely wasn't dashing shield cancel grabbing, which means that your marth friend didn't know to anticipate the dash grab and Up-B to interrupt. Similarly, if you were spacing your attacks correctly, an efficient Mario player could retreat his aerials and put shield pressure on D3 whilst staying out of grab range.

I do not claim myself to be a great Mario, so I will not. As I said, I am upset. If there was a time where you needed to rant, then you would understand.

I will however, apply what knowledge you've given me.

 

[Criosphinx]

I didn't mean to offend you. I simply look at the situation with the most neutral standpoint. And in my eyes, Dedede's chaingrab is not only beatable, but completely fair.

Another possibility. if he is standing on the edge of the stage, throwing waddles, charge up your fludd. If you catch him offguard while he is spamming, you can likely put him into an unfavorable position during his recovery. A fludd knocks him off the stage, you approach. If he was in the middle of throwing a waddle, he would have fallen quite a bit. Go for the stage spike or a meteor. If he get's back on the stage, make sure you keep the momentum you have and don't let him back into his routine.

 

[Judge Judy]

And that would work if DDD's B-air wasn't freaken ridiculous. Mario's ground game is pure crap against DDD, and whenever I jumped, DDD jumped and spammed the living jesus out of B-air.

There was NOTHING I could do unless I baited that grab.

You could of used the FLUDD, FLUDD goes right through waddle dees and his Bair.

 

[Genos]

I hate chaingrabs a lot. Losing control of your character while at low percents isn't fun for me. That's what melee was for. Yet, it's in the game and hasn't been proven to be too powerful so you can deal with it. Keep in mind that Mario can combo a lot of characters fairly easily, including Dedede, and that's similar to a chaingrab. I would definitely try some new stuff out so you can beat the bad Dededes that aren't as good as you, but for the really good ones you'll need to counterpick.

 

[Andurian]

Hero Mystic: As the one who made the FLUDD guide I'm disappointed at myself for not thinking of FLUDD. ._.

I'll definitely use that next time.


Andurian: Yeah... I didn't post this! Heh, oh well.

 

[HeroMystic]

^I totally forgot I was using my friend's computer. The above post was mine.

 

[Matt07]

Haha, it's ok, FLUUD is like re-learning a new match-up, gotta know when to use it, etc.

So techincally a Double post? , Joking.

 

[ThatGuy]

Welcome to the tournament world. Criosphinx has it right. People are relentless out there and you need to be at the top of your game to win. That being said, when the DDD does get a grab on you, don't hold your breath; just take the 30% or whatever he's going to dish out at you and try again.

Everyone does awful at their first big tournament, but you need to experience that before you can move on. Don't worry about it.

 

[SkylerOcon]

^I totally forgot I was using my friend's computer. The above post was mine.

omg duble poast modz get him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[Matador]

I hate chaingrabs a lot. Losing control of your character while at low percents isn't fun for me. That's what melee was for.

Yeah...don't do that. Brawl is way more gay in that respect than Melee. You had control over your DI and being unpredictable with it at least in Melee. In Brawl...grab release infinites?

So just leave Melee out of it.

Welcome to the tournament world. Criosphinx has it right. People are relentless out there and you need to be at the top of your game to win. That being said, when the DDD does get a grab on you, don't hold your breath; just take the 30% or whatever he's going to dish out at you and try again.

Everyone does awful at their first big tournament, but you need to experience that before you can move on. Don't worry about it.

QFT

Try to take something positive from it. Work on your baiting game or something to that effect. You were able to anticipate him well enough to bring him down to his last stock, find out what you can do to tip the scales more in your favor. Fight more D3s and find something that works if this situation could come up again.

Don't give up n all that jazz.

 

[•Col•]

Dude, that sucks, man... D:

It sounds like you've encountered some ledgecamping, which has been a very hot topic lately... M2K made a big post about it... xD

 

[chic]

I feel for ya. i went to a tourny last week with luigi and got chained grabbed so much by DDD

 

[HeroMystic]

Dude, that sucks, man... D:

It sounds like you've encountered some ledgecamping, which has been a very hot topic lately... M2K made a big post about it... xD

Eh, it wasn't ledgecamping. If anything, it was baiting.

After my friends and I played for a few hours with items on high and just screwed around, we all feel better. I personally am feeling a lot better after I woke up this morning, and looking back now this topic was made from me overreacting...

I don't hate DDD, even though now he's my most feared enemy. Even so, I don't think I'm ready to throw in the towel going against DDD just yet. I'm going to try again, this time with the advice that was given to me on here.

I feel for ya. i went to a tourny last week with luigi and got chained grabbed so much by DDD

Luigi can't be chaingrabbed... so you were infinited? That's worse than me.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Just go to the edge people....

 

[Mardyke]

After my friends and I played for a few hours with items on high and just screwed around, we all feel better. I personally am feeling a lot better after I woke up this morning, and looking back now this topic was made from me overreacting...

At least we get something to talk about.

And thanks for representing Mario.

 

[PKNintendo]

Dang, sorry to here that . I find it kind of ridiculous that they don't ban chaingrab infinites, on characters that can be infinited, (or limit amount of chaingrabs them) like, c'mon how many Mario's or Samus', Ness', or Lucas (Ness, and Lucas vs Marth-wise) is anyone going to fight in a tournament, no wonder their so scarce .

I also seriously Inhale move as well, especially when I lose a stock at like 30%?

I finished my rant.

Incorrect, Ness can escape Marth's CG. Super Grab Break. It's REALLY useful (I used it against a Marth) Spin the control stick and flick the c-stick (DON'T SPIN THE C-STICK, DOING THAT IS USELESS!)

Marth CG on Lucas is even less effective.

Mario can beat DDD, I made a similar topic I while ago, and you just have to play using the mind. PUNISH, don't approach, he's tough but use Mario's stellar Bair and play keep away. Use the Fireball spam. You CAN gimp his recovery.


Oh, and when you played that Ness could you describe the matchup? Did you gimp him?

>>

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

PKNintendo...you really don't know what you're talking about...this message isn't coming from the ******* within me...it's coming from someone with a brain

1) His Bear> Mario's
2) Waddledeedoos(yeah I know they are different I don't care it's one word now) > Fireballs
3) ****!!!! MY LIFE!!!!!! from getting grabbed cause he happened to be near you

 

[Matt07]

Are you referring to me PK Nintendo? I hate Marth, would never use him, or any other 'secondary'...Mario is too **** good to use another character.

If the question wasn't related to me, I'm sorry.

Monk, is going to edge a good thing? Couldn't DDD just use inhale, then walk off the edge? At high %'s you'd be dead.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

PKNintendo...you really don't know what you're talking about...this message isn't coming from the ******* within me...it's coming from someone with a brain

1) His Bear> Mario's
2) Waddledeedoos(yeah I know they are different I don't care it's one word now) > Fireballs
3) ****!!!! MY LIFE!!!!!! from getting grabbed cause he happened to be near you

....I like reading

 

[Matt07]

So do I, but your post doesn't mention Inhale .

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I wasn't talking to you....in my previous post...I was addressing PKNintendo...


anyway...going to the ledge works just in general...Uair->Up-B best thing ever

 

[Matt07]

Oh, sorry, my fault. K thanks for the help, I will definatly use that.

 

[Bowser King]

Bowser hates his CG too
sad to hear what happened.
-Bowser King

 

[Ray/Boshi]

What are you doing initiation the first attack on a grounded D3 anyway?

Chain grabbing sucks. But it's there. Main thing is working around it. He obviously waited at the edge for you to sucker you'rself in while he evading/throwing Dee's. Just to grab you from one end to the other. Sigh, what brawl has come to. Good thing there is a time limit of tourney matches. Don't worry about the time. Worry about the opponet. It's No different then a 'perfect' Olimar camp. *Shivers*

~Not too descriptive on advice & tactics I know. But that's how I roll.

 

[Ussi]

Hero, you should have gone Ike then ;O And fair'd his bair to hell.

Well, empty short hop then dash usmash under his bair or such. Utilt otherwise, since he's crap, uair like 6 times, then fsmash ;0

@Monk: Your sig is one of the most amazing team combos i've ever seen.

 

[HeroMystic]

Thinking back on it now, there was a lot I could've done against DDD that I didn't think of because I felt so hopeless back during the fight. Thinking on it, I could've used Up-B while he was doing his B-air spam.

That's what you get for falling into the opponent's pace...

@Ussi: I considered using Ike, but I wasn't very confident in him since he can be CG'd as well and I'm miles ahead better with Mario than I am with Ike (although for some reason... people say my Ike is a lot harder than my Mario *shrugs*). All the love I gave him in was only in friendlies though... and I won all those fights.

 

[PKNintendo]

PKNintendo...you really don't know what you're talking about...this message isn't coming from the ******* within me...it's coming from someone with a brain

1) His Bear> Mario's
2) Waddledeedoos(yeah I know they are different I don't care it's one word now) > Fireballs
3) ****!!!! MY LIFE!!!!!! from getting grabbed cause he happened to be near you

Chill. Punish is wiffed Bairs with yours.

Sorry, the DDD I play never uses Waddle Dee's much. I just dodge, punish with the fire balls.

SUPER GRAB ****ing BREAK

It makes life that much **** easier. SORRY for giving out decent tips monk. Wait, disregard that last post if you insulted me. If so

 

[Matt07]

Eh, I think it's on the situation DDD knows that he can chaingrab you, so he spam Waddle Dees like no tomorrow, so you can get punished and get CG'd. If the DDD is going for an approach he's putting himself at an advantage already, Mario has a lot of tools to defend himself against his approaches, hence why I think DDD will spam.

But this is my own opinion .

And guys please don't argue...I don't want to see this happen .