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So how then do casuals and elitist interact?

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
Wait, did you just spend four and a half paragraphs explaining why we shouldn't use the term "competitive"? Is "tournament" a higher-tier word or something?
Ha... tires don exits, you know.

And, no. I spent 4 1/2 paragraphs explaining why 'competitive' isn't as accurate and can be seen as alienating/demeaning. Plus, that there is no one way to play with a competitive drive. Basically; I don't think any of us have the energy to recap the last few pages. :laugh:

EDIT: *sigh* I don't like saying disrespectful things... but Yuna, none of my last post, no of any of my posts here, was 'douchy' or disrespectful in any way, and yet you talk to me like that? If anyone is being a 'douchebag', it's not me. Besides, I'm like to think that no one is trying to be a 'douchebag'... though I'm not naive enough to doubt the existence of trolls out there.
 

Samochan

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
3,450
Location
I'm in your house, dsmashing your tv
"Items aren't used because you can't play competitively with items." Well, you used to play with items... but you thought you WERE a competitive person! That must not be the case. Alienation accomplished.
Um.. no I didn't. >_> lol I played for fun.

The word "competitive" has been perfectly clear for me from the very beginning of my competitive career and everyone I've ever explained what it means have also understood it perfectly. You play to compete with other people and one cannot truly compete at the fullest without eliminating possible luck factors out of the game, which in this case means items.
 

Sliq

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
4,871
Just replace 'competitive' with 'tournament play' so this Jack ***got will shut his ****ing mouth.
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Sliq & Yuna - Brothers in Flames.

Anyway, someone just brought it up, yet again, so for the last time:
We do not dislike Brawl for the lack of advanced techs, we dislike Brawl for the lack of options. What advanced techs did with Melee was give us more options. Not only did they remove the majority of them, they didn't give us many new ones. The new game engine also greatly restricts what you can do.

The game is so limited it's interminably boring and a huge campfest. Competitive players who have played Brawl have noticed this. I don't give a **** if the game's different from Melee or lacking in advanced techs, after all, I play Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen 4, a game run on almost pure mindgames.

But Brawl is so friggin' limited it's incredibly boring from a competitive gaming point. Melee is just so much better if you want to play fighting games competitively.

Stop assuming (and also flaming) "us" with "They just want their ATs!" and "They just want the gap between Competitives and Casuals to be big!". You are wrong.
 

Met

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
837
Location
mic_128 doesnt like me
You know I have been playing brawl with chillin the last two weeks. Basicly working sleeping and playing brawl. And AS OF NOW there are no real advanced tech's the only useful one I learned how to do is glide tossing. But yuna you cant say that the game is limited. When you watch videos of melee when it first came out it was the same thing. just give it some time man.

And for casual players, let me explain to you how I play competetivly. I know alot of people who play casually and they always ***** at me for using advanced techs. In fact i have had three of them get so mad that they throw there controller at me and cuss me out. This I don't understand, its like casual players think that I am doing this to make it unfun for them. I always play my hardest because that is whats fun for me and thats how you get better and a huge chunk of enjoyment comes from getting better, to me. I have never complained about items because to me anyway you play this game is fun.
And I lose all the time since i play with chillin and it gives me drive to get better.

so if you are a casual player and you are *****ing some competetive player out for no reason besides he is using AT's. Will you sit down and think for a bit what your reasoning is? because I bet if you think about it hard you will realize that it all comes down to you losing.
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
EDIT: *sigh* I don't like saying disrespectful things... but Yuna, none of my last post, no of any of my posts here, was 'douchy' or disrespectful in any way, and yet you talk to me like that? If anyone is being a 'douchebag', it's not me. Besides, I'm like to think that no one is trying to be a 'douchebag'... though I'm not naive enough to doubt the existence of trolls out there.
You spent multiple posts insulting people like Yuna and Sliq, saying that competitive smashers don't know the meaning of competitiveness as well as you oh lord and master Jack Kieser and Basically saying everyone who doesn't agree with your baseless(and wrong) information don't know what they're talking about.

Your a Douchemonkey.

Edit: Samo, Im still waiting for your Kirby Combo Vid -.-
 

Corner-Trap

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
535
Location
Fayetteville, NC
Casual vs. Competitive

Round 1: Competitive player beats casual player
Round 2: Casual player rants about how competitive player was unfair/cheap
Round 3: Competitive player acts with an elitist prick attitude

Result: Both parties lose
 

Ojanya

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
593
Location
Ohio
Casual players don't get pissed off when they lose. I wonder who has more fun?
Okay, who gets more pissed when they lose? (In most cases) A pro basketball player in the playoffs, or a bunch of kids playing on the play ground? Now to say who has more fun is immeasurable. (Whoa, spelling..? Is that even a word...?)
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
You know I have been playing brawl with chillin the last two weeks. Basicly working sleeping and playing brawl. And AS OF NOW there are no real advanced tech's the only useful one I learned how to do is glide tossing. But yuna you cant say that the game is limited. When you watch videos of melee when it first came out it was the same thing. just give it some time man.
That was 7+ years ago.

The Smash scene was tiny, miniscule compared to today. They were also fresh from SSB64, which didn't really have that many advanced techs. Now, 7 years later, the community is huge. And we're vetted and much more technical.

What was the first thing we did when we got the game? Start looking for advanced techs. 4 weeks later and what have we found besides what was to be found that first week despite intensive exploration? Pretty much nothing. We know what to look for and the ways to look for them.

In a game where most ATs were removed and all the new techs are intuitive and really easy to do, do you really think Sakurai inserted a slew of ATs that are so hard to find we haven't found them yet? No, they most probably do not exist.

And even if they do, the game engine itself is extremely limited. Falling speed, attack speed, comboing, Stale Moving, increased floatiness, increased DI, no lag-canceling, the new physics engine, less shield- and hitstun and much, much more makes gameplay very limited!

Even if we found a slew of ATs, they'd have to literally be gamebreaking. ATs in Melee did not break the game. They did not go against the physics engine or glitch it in such a way the game was played completely different. They just enhanced the game and gave us more options.

But in Brawl, in order for us to get enough freedom to come even close to what Melee or any other competitive fighting game is/was/will be, the ATs would have to work against the way the game is programmed so much we'd be playing a completely different game than without it!
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
As a "casual" player, I'm glad all those cheap techniques are gone. I look forward to this level playing field.
We will still beat you, and you also don't realize how that limits the overall lasting potential the game has. Why would you want the game to be less deep? Seriously... It really doesn't even affect you guys much considering either. Nobody is forcing you to do them.
 

slikvik

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
4,179
Location
**** MD/VA. I have no region. no really...
We will still beat you, and you also don't realize how that limits the overall lasting potential the game has. Why would you want the game to be less deep? Seriously... It really doesn't even affect you guys much considering either. Nobody is forcing you to do them.
Mookie. All the bitter ones are the ones who've been 3-4 stocked by competitive players
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
Mookie. All the bitter ones are the ones who've been 3-4 stocked by competitive players
I know that is true for the most part. Scrubs tend to create excuses for why they lost. They will think "If I had items" "If he didn't wavedash" "If he didn't l-cancel" but even that... they don't realize that it's not just that. We are more than advanced techs, but because they are so limited in their thinking they decide to complain about it and oppose "exploits."

Normal casual layers either A: don't really care and take it in stride, B: are frustrated, but they don't make excuses and just play other people cause it's more fun, or C: are really excited about it and want to learn more. Only the scrubs tend to make a big deal out of it, because they have to find some way to mend their broken egos.
 

Terrorcon Blot

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
247
Stale moving
So wait, the game ENCOURAGING new unique combos and strategies is a bad thing?

ATs in Melee did not break the game. They did not go against the physics engine or glitch it in such a way the game was played completely different. They just enhanced the game and gave us more options.
Hahahaha!

Now pull the other one.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
So wait, the game ENCOURAGING new unique combos and strategies is a bad thing?
It doesn't so much encourages you to do other moves as it forces you to not use your kill moves when they would have worked well in a combo. For as much good that it did (they made almost every move useful cause of this) it still limits you a bit. It does add a bit of strategy, but at the cost of sacrificing a combo for a kill later on. It's a weird mechanic. I love it and hate it at the same time. The best way to describe it is this: It doesn't really add to the pot of depth, but it doesn't take away from it either. What it does do, is provide is a unique smash mechanic that differentiates Brawl from the previous installments.
 

AquaTech

We hit the potjack
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
735
Location
Wilmington, NC
MookieRah, I don't think I'm gonna be able to beat the people who play this game 15+ hours a week, that's not what I said. I'm just glad wavedashing is out. I did L-Cancel. With the weird techniques out, the play field will be leveled. I didn't say I'll beat everyone, I said the field would be leveled. Learn something.
 

OrlanduEX

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
1,029
MookieRah, I don't think I'm gonna be able to beat the people who play this game 15+ hours a week, that's not what I said. I'm just glad wavedashing is out. I did L-Cancel. With the weird techniques out, the play field will be leveled. I didn't say I'll beat everyone, I said the field would be leveled. Learn something.
Wavedashing did not unbalance the playing field in Melee.

Ice Climbers, Samus, Luigi, Mewtwo, Roy and other characters were actually more capable of competing with the top tiers like Marth and Sheik because of wavedashing.

I assure you that Luigi and Ice Climbers in particular would see almost no use in competitive play in Melee if they didn't have good wavedashes.

Wavedashing helped balance out the game. How about YOU go learn something before you go dissing a mod and experienced Melee player?
 

AquaTech

We hit the potjack
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
735
Location
Wilmington, NC
I know all about Luigi and the IC's wavedashing. I of course didn't use them, so it didn't affect me. I'm not dissing him, he got bent out of shape and defensive when I said the playing field would be leveled. And it will be. I'm not extremely good at this game (not tournament good), so I'm glad the advanced tech's I never used are out.
 

FalconPunch

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
474
Location
Brawl is gay, but in live in DC
I know all about Luigi and the IC's wavedashing. I of course didn't use them, so it didn't affect me. I'm not dissing him, he got bent out of shape and defensive when I said the playing field would be leveled. And it will be. I'm not extremely good at this game (not tournament good), so I'm glad the advanced tech's I never used are out.
If you never used them what difference does it make whether its in or not?
 

AquaTech

We hit the potjack
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
735
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Wilmington, NC
Because now people can't use wavedashing against me. I don't whine about it whenever people do it, it's not cheating by any stretch of the imagination. It's just an advantage people always have over me, so personally, I'm glad it's gone.
 

Xengri

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
404
Location
Orlando, FL
You know fast, that's a pretty selfish thing to say.

Just because you decided to not learn a tech, you're happy that the game has lost something that gave it a lot of depth?

You could say that you never used it but, being happy the game has lost something that makes it harder to master, thous ensuring a better competitive scene is kinda.

Ehh...
 

AquaTech

We hit the potjack
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
735
Location
Wilmington, NC
Sure, I'm a scrub, why not? At it's peak, I played smash bros about 2 hours a week.
And sure, I'm selfish for being happy that something I didn't do is out. You all shouldn't care though. How a scrub views the game should mean nothing to you. At the end of the day, this is what there is: you all wavedashed, I did not. Wavedashing is out now. Playing field leveled.
 

Endless Nightmares

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Messages
4,090
Location
MN
If you actually think the "playing field is leveled" because one mechanic was changed...well frankly you're a complete idiot.

Since this is a ****ty thread that gets posted five times a day and I'm sure Yuna, Mookie and Sliq have already ***** the morons' arguments, I'm outta here >_>

*unsubscribes*
 

Xengri

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
404
Location
Orlando, FL
So..
You admit to being selfish.
Over something that affects you for only 2 hours a week.
Then you pretend to know what would "level the playing field"
About something that only affects you for 2 hours a week.
When others that know more about
Something that you only play for 2 hours a week
Because
They play for 15+ hours a week
And say that you are wrong. That it does nothing to level the playing field and, that in fact, it unbalances it more.

Do you get what where I’m going with this?


Sure, I'm a scrub, why not? At it's peak, I played smash bros about 2 hours a week.
And sure, I'm selfish for being happy that something I didn't do is out. You all shouldn't care though. How a scrub views the game should mean nothing to you. At the end of the day, this is what there is: you all wavedashed, I did not. Wavedashing is out now. Playing field leveled.

At it's peak, I played smash bros about 2 hours a week.
2 hours a week.



Why would you even care!?
 

AquaTech

We hit the potjack
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
735
Location
Wilmington, NC
I don't own a gamecube, I only play at my friend's house.
I do own a Wii now though...
See where I'm going with this?
 

S0crat3s

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
158
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
Don't use the word elitist or pro. IT'S COMPETITIVE.

Also, competitive players have much more fun than "casual" players because "casuals" bind themselves to scrubby rules.

EDIT: If you don't see the fun in competitive play, then you obviously haven't delved into it far enough. In the end, the amount of fun you get for working towards getting better at the game is worth it.

People who quoted my post and made an immature response to it are casuals in denial.
No, it's elitist...I play competitively--I travel to tournaments, host them, and occasionally (once), I win...You don't have to wavedash or SHFFL to play competitively; It helps (a lot), but it isn't necessary...

You, however, are a prime example of an elitist..."Competitive players have much more fun than "casual" players because "casuals" bind themselves to scrubby rules," is basically saying "I'm better than you because I can wavedash/SHFFL. If you don't go to tourneys, you're a scrub and aren't worth talking to"...
 

Endless Nightmares

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Messages
4,090
Location
MN
^^^ That was like 200 posts in the past...he's already been addressed

BTW We don't play for 15+ hours a week like most people think T_T
 

Xengri

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
404
Location
Orlando, FL
I don't own a gamecube, I only play at my friend's house.
I do own a Wii now though...
See where I'm going with this?
No I don't.

Wii can Play Melee so you could have just bought it...

Even so. There’s always that thing you can do. You know…

Avoid us?

Don’t get the FCs of AT users and , only play people you know that play the same you do.
What, we only make a whooping 1% of the total smash player base. It’s not that hard…

But, you know what. It doesn’t even matter anymore, wavedash is out.

But, enjoy this false sense of a “leveled playing field” while it last.
More ATs are sure to come anyway to ruin this “leveled playing field” and, with the minuscule chance that they don’t (Don’t count on it. More promising things are coming up every other day),you’ll probably still lose to those wavedashers of the past.
Not because of wavedash but, because we took the time to know more about Melee and, we‘ll do the same for Brawl.
That’s how we knew that wavedash didn’t “level” anything.

And, knowledge is power!

Still, you're welcome to keep that mindset of your's. It defiantly won't be affecting me as much as it will be affecting you. Just thought I might point out the flaw in it for you though.
 

DonkeyPirate

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
493
Location
Fort Woth, Tx 3265-4808-7722
hahaha xengri you crack me up.

heres whats going to happen with brawl. if you never go to tournaments, and you face a competitive player online, he is probably going to trash you. guess what, you will get trashed in every game, and sometimes you will do the trashing. no one has more fun than anyone else. some say they compete for the money, but you know theres more to it than that. they started playing in the first place because it was fun, then they got incredibly good at it. its like pro football. they play by the rules set out for them and yes the rules make sense. I have NEVER competed in a real tournament besides local game stores, yet me and my friends play tournament rules because its something we can all agree on, and it makes the game based on skill not chance. we turned off certain stages and all items because we all got good enough to where that stuff just gets in our way.
 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
No, it's elitist...I play competitively--I travel to tournaments, host them, and occasionally (once), I win...You don't have to wavedash or SHFFL to play competitively; It helps (a lot), but it isn't necessary...
At least someone got the basic concept of what I was saying, although it sounds like S0crat3s knew it before I was thinking about it.

EDIT to SenorPresidente: I totally wanted to post that! Good man. :laugh:
 

S0crat3s

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
158
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
^^^ That was like 200 posts in the past...he's already been addressed

BTW We don't play for 15+ hours a week like most people think T_T
I'm a bit confused as of which group I should be classified as: Casual or Competitive? I mean--

-I like playing with items off (they get it the way of combos)

-I can perform most ATs, but the only ones that I'm comfortably using in tourneys are Jump-cancelled grabs, jump-cancelled Usmashes, and crouch-cancelled Dsmashes (I don't need L-cancelling because A) I can't short-hop worth **** and B) most of my air attacks are used in juggling and are used only when I launch my opponent up)

-I don't choose my main based on tiers, but rather the character I feel most comfortable and reliable with

-I go to tourneys as often as two times a month (I'm pretty young, and my parents don't like video games either way)

-I practice with Melee 1-5 hours a day

-Don't use ATs when playing with friends, but--

-Can combo-**** them either way, and--

-Place fairly high in tourneys, and can sometimes beat guys that are way more technical than me
 
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