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Snake "Knee Lock" MOSTLY DEBUNKED, READ POST*****

M

matthewdw94*

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Basicly what I'm calling the Snake Knee Lock uses the forward tilts uniuqe properties (stuns opponents) to keep them in forever. What you do is you use the first attack in Snakes forward tilt over and over again on your opponent(works at all ranges). The only problem is that the timing is very hard at first. If your a frame too slow, you get shield grabbed (or they can DI out of it), too fast, and you complete the other half of the move. It may seem impossible I but have gotten a chain up to 13 on a lvl 9 computer. Before you say that it only works on computers, let me first say that lvl 9 computers are perfect practice for this, since they powershield as soon as they get an opening. Also, as tested in the video below, you cannot DI out of it(it's in training and the computer A.I. is on run meaning he will Always D.I. away from you).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU99kK5fh_E

If you want to practice this go to training and put the computer A.I. on run.

IMPORTANT EDIT:It has been discovered that you can tap DI to get out of this!!! However, depending on the circumstances you still might be able to get a small chain. The closer they are to you, the better, for it will take them longer to DI out of it. Basicly you can do it till they DI far enough out. Another exception is if they do a stationary trip(sweeping) then you can get an extra hit in. This can still be useful for racking a bit of extra damage but can't be infinite. At the most if your lucky you could probably get a chain of four(considering your opponent is DI'ing correctly, and that you start the chain close by them). Might be useful in team battles......
 
NeroeXIII

NeroeXIII

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Wait, are you saying Snake may have an infinite Knee lock!? If so, and it is impossible to DI out of this may bump up snake on the tier list. I personally hope hes middle or low. >.> I'll test this later, right now im working on some Nade techs myslef
 
PsychoMidget

PsychoMidget

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I've tried it against real people and the timing is incredibly hard to get down, they'll almost always powershield it if you don't time it perfectly.
 
C

Cho?

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lol if psycho thinks its incredibly hard then its impossible for me. anyway nice find though. explosives FTW
 
W

waks

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Wont it diminish the attack though? But if Im correct, only the knee diminishes, and the smack doesnt, right?

And, I think the knee, since its gonna decay, will it help make the lock more consistent?
 
B

bman in 2288

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No, the knee has set knockback. As in, it either stuns the person or makes them fall over. Against aerial opponents, however, the knee will have actual knockback.
 
B.A.M.

B.A.M.

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im with psycho on this one, done it a couple times but its pretty hard 2 maintain. hey if we can all get the timing down though, itll just be another reason why snake is the freakin man, that and fighting against the world gov't.
 
R

rigapeen

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i usually do 2 or 3. for the first few times your opponent will just assume that youre going to do the 2nd hit of Ftilt so you can get a few hits in. i usually do 2 knees and then AAA. relieves some of the diminishing returns. does it have more knockback/damage? dont know about that part
 
M

matthewdw94*

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if the timimng is correct the only thing the opponent can do wait for you to make a mistake. Hope that cleared some stuff up cuz I didn't quite understand the last questions. And to anser waks question, it won't help you do the chain because when hitting someone on the ground, the knee will always have the same properties(and I think but im not sure) that the damage of the knee doesn't diminish.
 
abit_rusty

abit_rusty

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Umm do you have something where you get the timing right and do 10+ and your opponent is actually trying to DI? I'm a little skeptical because I get weird results from the knee, be it straight off knock back into the air or a trip. I think I mentioned the knee's tripping properties before....

On the other hand, against a wall....now there's a definite infinite possibility.

The True Face of Stupid said:
Wow.

At first he was imitating Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch, and now he's 1-upping the Captain's knee with his own knee.
Click to expand...
Now, now, let's not get ahead of ourselves lol.
 
M

matthewdw94*

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abit_rusty said:
Umm do you have something where you get the timing right and do 10+ and your opponent is actually trying to DI? I'm a little skeptical because I get weird results from the knee, be it straight off knock back into the air or a trip. I think I mentioned the knee's tripping properties before....

On the other hand, against a wall....now there's a definite infinite possibility.



Now, now, let's not get ahead of ourselves lol.
Click to expand...
No but I'll try getting one up in the next week. And its impossible to di out of it since (if you do it correctly) they never get airborn. If you time it right you will get them out of thier trip or "stun state" before they are able to move shield ect. And since on training mode the computer a.i. was in run, as in evade it would always di away from me.
 
M

matthewdw94*

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0RLy said:
Can you crouch to cancel the knee, similar to how you would jab cancel?
Click to expand...
once your in the chain you can't do anything but if you crouch before I don't realy know. I'm geussing that crouching before it won't do anything inless it misses you.
 
B

bman in 2288

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If the opponent is on the ground, then they get stunned by Snake's knee. If you can maintain a constant, consistent barrage of knees, the opponent cannot go anywhere. That's the unique property of the knee. It doesn't move you, it just stuns. The only time they move is if Snake pushes them while doing attack.

I don't think they can go airborne from this if they already aren't, so there's a possibility for an infinite here.
 
Magus420

Magus420

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You do it during the freeze frames just as the hit connects. If you smash the control stick in a direction during that time it repositions your character slightly in that direction. You can really notice it when caught in a smart bomb and you tap the control stick rapidly in a direction you'll move around inside it.

While it shouldn't let you smash DI up or down because the move doesn't have an upward trajectory and they're grounded you should still be able to SDI to the sides along the ground.

Regular DI shouldn't do anything like you said because it doesn't send you anywhere, and so there's no trajectory to change with it.

Try having the other person time taps on the stick away right when the knee makes contact, or instead rapidly tap away when caught in it (letting it go back to neutral between them). It should get them out of it.
 
M

matthewdw94*

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Magus420 said:
You do it during the freeze frames just as the hit connects. If you smash the control stick in a direction during that time it repositions your character slightly in that direction. You can really notice it when caught in a smart bomb and you tap the control stick rapidly in a direction you'll move around inside it.

While it shouldn't let you smash DI up or down because the move doesn't have an upward trajectory and they're grounded you should still be able to SDI to the sides along the ground.

Regular DI shouldn't do anything like you said because it doesn't send you anywhere, and so there's no trajectory to change with it.

Try having the other person time taps on the stick away right when the knee makes contact, or instead rapidly tap away when caught in it (letting it go back to neutral between them). It should get them out of it.
Click to expand...
I would but the person I had help me test it was a noob and won't get tap di. can someone please test this?
 
M

matthewdw94*

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You were right. I tested this, (all by myself too, don't ask how) and iif you keep tapping out of it you will get out fairly quick. However I was using a wiimote so I could tap alot faster than on a control stick. I think if the opponent is using a control stick you still might be able to get a small chain of maybe three or four before they can get out. Someone please test this with a control stick di'ing out of it. I'll do the same test but tap on the wiimote a little slower. brb
 
Magus420

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Have you also tested it outside of training mode which has no move decay in effect? I saw it was always doing 8% everytime.

Though it may be fixed knockback/stun in the sense that it doesn't matter whether they're at 0% or 200% when you hit them, when it becomes stale in a real match each hit should do less damage and also have less stun because of it even though they don't go anywhere.

In other words, if they get hit by a 6% knee it should stun them for a shorter time than an 8% knee.

If the timing is extremely tight in training mode when it's always at full power, then there's a good chance after a few hits in a normal match the stun would be reduced by enough that they could shield in time even if you time it perfectly.
 
S

SirPsychoMantis

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Even though this has been debunked as an infinite, would it be an infinite if the enemy was against a wall?
 
M

matthewdw94*

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SirPsychoMantis said:
Even though this has been debunked as an infinite, would it be an infinite if the enemy was against a wall?
Click to expand...
most likely. and magus's theory about the stun deacressiing is incorrect, because I could still get someone who isn't di'ing trapped in it in versus mode. I won't be able to anser any more questions since i'll be gone for a day and a half, so try testing it out yourself.
 
T

Traceur Assassin

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could u chain together a couple of knees and before they are able to get out of it stick them with the c4??? just wondering.
 
R

rigapeen

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yep, as i said before its just a mind game (an excellent one). theres no way the opponent can get out of the 2nd ftilt hit right? so just hit him twice with the first hit and then do the finisher. should work most of the time. dont worry about the chaining as the damage gets so low by then anyway.

Traceur Assassin said:
could u chain together a couple of knees and before they are able to get out of it stick them with the c4??? just wondering.
Click to expand...
same as what i said above... train your opponent to shield/dodge your ftilts when you get near him, then c4 him when youve got a good read.
 
M

matthewdw94*

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Magus420 said:
They can smash DI into you to push you enough away from the wall, and then smash DI away again so no it shouldn't be an infinite against a wall. Same with other character's rapid jabs against a wall.

Also, did you try powershielding it in versus mode?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW2feY-zdr4
Click to expand...
in versusode I would use a lvl 9 comp. which powershields the move when it gets the chance, so yes, inless your talking about a wall infinite.
 
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