smooth lander- the one custom equipment that should be legal

[Nabbitnator]

I think before this even becomes standard that we allow the game to develop for at least 3 months. For the time being experimenting with these items would be very productive.

 

[Epok]

2) But the main reason this is being proposed, and as stated by you earlier, is that it'll make some characters better. The same logic applies to this item.

3) As I said, testing can be done. But implementation will be hard, if not impossible, and has serious, immediate consequences if done now, and serious consequences to the game itself if ever implemented. Potential gain will likely never outweigh the cost or damage.

4) Testing will not let us know the full impact of the game. Speculation won't either, but we can still look at past experiences with Brawl's mods, early and otherwise, to see that similar splits can occur. P:M was the only real success, but it still split a community rather badly years after the game was analyzed and developed. Imagine what can happen if done so quickly. We'll just have another split in the community, but this time, with an under-developed game being balanced towards one side over the other.

5) Pros have a large influence, yes. But the less then pros, the casuals, the aspiring... They make up a significant part of the influence, now more then ever before. Success of this game, competitively and otherwise, rides on THEM, not the pros. Pros are just a few people. Non-pros discover and develop the metagame just as much, if not much, much more. THOSE are the ones we don't want to alienate this early in. A few pros for tens of thousands of others? I'll take the tens of thousands doing work we can all use as a community.

6) Correct. Patches will be aimed at character balance, not equipment balance. This piece of equipment, if standard, likely won't be factored in when balancing is done. Thus, some imbalances are left unchecked, threatening overall balance with this item in play. That, or Nintendo balances around the item, which just negatively affects the other side. Their only viable solution would be to remove/rework the item, thus nulling any testing done. Again, with the risk so high and reward, comparatively, so low, we must question the worth of it overall.

7) That's the reason equipment is so concerning in the first place: the stats. Not to mention it IS possible to lose equipment. All this does is raises the barrier of entry for players to play smash competitively. In this day and age of gaming, this is a HUGE downside. Like, unimaginably huge. This next part is untested, and I can test later, but equipment may not be usable on multiple characters/character profiles. Not to mention that we'd need 40+ of these things, and the "balancing" items, we'd need 1 for EACH custom moveset if that's the case and custom moves become allowed. So, SO much work and time and a huge bar set for general competitive entry to the game if that's true. If it isn't true, the former half of this paragraph still stands.

8) I realize that. I am giving reasons why this can have a negative impact before implementation/testing because, as you said, I am "striking while the iron is hot."

I guess it boils down to this. There are too many people on here that have denied this up and down. So far I have not heard any person that has rejected the smooth lander say that they have ACTUALLY PLAYED WITH IT.

How can you even have a solid argument that isn't just speculation or opinion. The truth is we really don't know what it will be like if we don't take the time to try in and get results. And there is no real reason to wait.

The mass majority follow pros because they are the best. The are the ones that end up represent the community as a whole. People will look to them about a final say about a topic rather than come to me or you for a decision.

Testing wont split the community.
Testing wont wreck the meta.
Testing wont higher the barrier of entry, especially since the set up is super easy to get.

You can test by doing side events and posting videos, but just complaining about the potential bad doesn't make is a real problem.
The stigma of the the smooth lander badge is heavily skewing the the idea of testing it to see where it takes us. It might be a good thing! We need to stop complaining so much and just acquire the data needed to make a sound decision.

The smooth lander badge that you unlock works on every character and you don't need 50 badges to do it.
You know how I know that? I unlocked it.

I put in the standard protection and agility badge into the 2 remaining slots. Which everyone already has on thier game with all the same stats. And it plays well.

I have been playing all day in fact. A lot of people with "counter arguments" didn't even bother reading pages before this to see that we have already discussed that.

I unlocked the smooth lander badge and made a custom character for EVERY character in the game including the 3 miis. Altogether it took an HOUR or so. When I tell you it is easy to set up it is easy because I have done it and shown others how to as well.

And who out here has lost equipment?

This does't raise the bar of entry because we can do it in a way that new people can gain access very easily to it if we put it out there. We have tournaments, smash boards, you tube. We could easily nurture this in a way that new people can understand what is going on. That isn't really an issue.

If you haven't at least tried it you don't really have any strong evidence to support your claim. I encourage you to unlock it, try it, then tell me why its bad.

 

[Pyr]

I guess it boils down to this. There are too many people on here that have denied this up and down. So far I have not heard any person that has rejected the smooth lander say that they have ACTUALLY PLAYED WITH IT.

How can you even have a solid argument that isn't just speculation or opinion. The truth is we really don't know what it will be like if we don't take the time to try in and get results. And there is no real reason to wait.

The mass majority follow pros because they are the best. The are the ones that end up represent the community as a whole. People will look to them about a final say about a topic rather than come to me or you for a decision.

Testing wont split the community.
Testing wont wreck the meta.
Testing wont higher the barrier of entry, especially since the set up is super easy to get.

You can test by doing side events and posting videos, but just complaining about the potential bad doesn't make is a real problem.
The stigma of the the smooth lander badge is heavily skewing the the idea of testing it to see where it takes us. It might be a good thing! We need to stop complaining so much and just acquire the data needed to make a sound decision.

The smooth lander badge that you unlock works on every character and you don't need 50 badges to do it.
You know how I know that? I unlocked it.

I put in the standard protection and agility badge into the 2 remaining slots. Which everyone already has on thier game with all the same stats. And it plays well.

I have been playing all day in fact. A lot of people with "counter arguments" didn't even bother reading pages before this to see that we have already discussed that.

I unlocked the smooth lander badge and made a custom character for EVERY character in the game including the 3 miis. Altogether it took an HOUR or so. When I tell you it is easy to set up it is easy because I have done it and shown others how to as well.

And who out here has lost equipment?

This does't raise the bar of entry because we can do it in a way that new people can gain access very easily to it if we put it out there. We have tournaments, smash boards, you tube. We could easily nurture this in a way that new people can understand what is going on. That isn't really an issue.

If you haven't at least tried it you don't really have any strong evidence to support your claim. I encourage you to unlock it, try it, then tell me why its bad.

I've lost equipment. I did last night, with the lander, in fact. I have tested to see it's effects, specifically with Ganon. I've got a decent idea what this item will do in general. Please don't assume things. Just because I cannot test NOW doesn't mean I can't test period. Some of us have the privilege of internet access at work and down time.

You should re-read my posts. I advocate testing and was specific in doing so. In the posts I've read, I've not seen much talk about the potential negatives, so I am stating possibilities.

I get the feeling you don't understand a lot of what I mean. Bar of entry isn't difficulty obtaining an item. It is getting a playstyle through to the masses to practice and use and making that use immediately apparent. Think of the no items stance, and magnify it, because this item won't be as immediately apparent, especially 2 years down the line when, if implemented, it can become difficult from a newer player to see this requirement just by looking. Right now, Smash has a low bar of entry competitively. This will undoubtedly raise it just by the nature of the change.

My statements why this is a bad idea have nothing to do with the item's function. It has to do with impact on how the game is played competitively. Really, re-read what I've said in my last few posts here.

We have the same issue here: Neither of us have evidence of the effect on the community. You can't say it won't cause negatives, I can't say it will. What I'm doing is telling why it MIGHT, and it is something to keep in mind before an implementation. I can go off of more then just SSB's history to back up my theorycrafting.

I seem to have offended or upset you. I apologize. I can see your view. I ask that you attempt to see mine.

Edit: Additionally, people don't need to use the item in question to speculate it's effects on competitive play as a whole. It's changing something (equipment with stats) and affecting the base game play from a competitive standpoint. Even if they haven't equipped it to a character, discussion on possible effects can still be had by them.

 

[TL?]

This does't raise the bar of entry because we can do it in a way that new people can gain access very easily to it if we put it out there. We have tournaments, smash boards, you tube. We could easily nurture this in a way that new people can understand what is going on. That isn't really an issue.

No matter what you do, this undeniably raises the bar of entry because people must abandon their existing notions of attack speed/safety to play in your event. Meanwhile they could enter normal smash 4 events and not have to relearn the game. Back when brawl came out people threw around the idea of playing with altered gravity or damage ratios and it never caught on. This time it's landing lag instead of gravity, but what kept it from happening then is what will also keep this from happening now. You're changing the core mechanics of the game.

You're welcome to test your ruleset out, in fact I encourage you to do so if you don't believe me. I don't think anyone here is against you trying if you really want to. We're just recommending not to as we know what will happen as history is basically repeating itself here.

 

[SmashChu]

Not sure if anyone has brought this up, but the equipment wont just give you the Smooth Landing property, it will change you stats too. Typically it will have a larger negative than positive, so your character will lose some performance as a result. Also, you can't be consistent in tournaments because what item has it and what stats will change will be random. There is also the problem that someone has to have it on their console. I think if you allow smooth landing, you have to allow all equipment.

 

[NewGuy79]

Not sure if anyone has brought this up, but the equipment wont just give you the Smooth Landing property, it will change you stats too. Typically it will have a larger negative than positive, so your character will lose some performance as a result. Also, you can't be consistent in tournaments because what item has it and what stats will change will be random. There is also the problem that someone has to have it on their console. I think if you allow smooth landing, you have to allow all equipment.

I'm sorry but you should really read some of the above post

as for this equipment itself, I dont really see the harm in trying it out. the game just came out we could have 10 years of time to enjoy and experiment with stuff. so if it's possible to make it fair and accessible why not?

 

[krazyzyko]

l'm totally up for this.
This should be a poll actually because nobody's going to read every page to see what does the majority prefer.

 

[Bu$]

You know most of the people that care about the smash games on a higher level are more or less mostly competitive players... If newer players want to get into the competitive side of smash they're going to do research and or talk to someone from the community. So if something like smooth landing was implemented, it wouldn't take the newer player to figure out with all the resources the community has. Melee probably has the highest bar of entry of any smash game and it's still hugely popular so i don't think that bar of entry is really a big deal. The amount of casual players on smash boards are almost non existent in comparison to how many people that play smash around the world. I just think we should worry about people that don't really care for the games competitive scene or future. We should test and implement things for us.

I've lost equipment. I did last night, with the lander, in fact. I have tested to see it's effects, specifically with Ganon. I've got a decent idea what this item will do in general. Please don't assume things. Just because I cannot test NOW doesn't mean I can't test period. Some of us have the privilege of internet access at work and down time.

You should re-read my posts. I advocate testing and was specific in doing so. In the posts I've read, I've not seen much talk about the potential negatives, so I am stating possibilities.

I get the feeling you don't understand a lot of what I mean. Bar of entry isn't difficulty obtaining an item. It is getting a playstyle through to the masses to practice and use and making that use immediately apparent. Think of the no items stance, and magnify it, because this item won't be as immediately apparent, especially 2 years down the line when, if implemented, it can become difficult from a newer player to see this requirement just by looking. Right now, Smash has a low bar of entry competitively. This will undoubtedly raise it just by the nature of the change.

My statements why this is a bad idea have nothing to do with the item's function. It has to do with impact on how the game is played competitively. Really, re-read what I've said in my last few posts here.

We have the same issue here: Neither of us have evidence of the effect on the community. You can't say it won't cause negatives, I can't say it will. What I'm doing is telling why it MIGHT, and it is something to keep in mind before an implementation. I can go off of more then just SSB's history to back up my theorycrafting.

I seem to have offended or upset you. I apologize. I can see your view. I ask that you attempt to see mine.

Edit: Additionally, people don't need to use the item in question to speculate it's effects on competitive play as a whole. It's changing something (equipment with stats) and affecting the base game play from a competitive standpoint. Even if they haven't equipped it to a character, discussion on possible effects can still be had by them.

Bar of entry into a competitive environment isn't really a thing. Melee is hugely popular and it has the highest bar of entry of all the smash games. m8 you have a thousand "mains" and joined in 2014. Clearly haven't been around here for long.

 

[Leebee]

Actually, the Smooth Lander Brawn Badge you get from winning the event challenge is not RNG. That badge is always +36/ -35. As well as all the starter agility, protection, and brawn badges are all standard as well. So it can be standardized quite easily.

I have played with some of the hard breaker stuff and to me it doesn't make enough difference. It doesn't make dash dancing viable either.

that's nice that they have the standard equip, but it's such a teaseeeee. I wish it had stats more like +10 speed and -10 defense... arghghgh.

 

[Pyr]

Bar of entry into a competitive environment isn't really a thing. Melee is hugely popular and it has the highest bar of entry of all the smash games. m8 you have a thousand "mains" and joined in 2014. Clearly haven't been around here for long.

Please don't assume things based on my join date, and consider Luigi my main. I've been playing since the release of Melee and lurking here for years. And I just list the characters I play/am working on. Strawmanning an argument is a bad thing.

 

[madworlder]

As someone coming to Smash from other fighting games, I don't understand why so many people seem so bent on removing landing lag.

 

[T0MMY]

Please don't assume things based on my join date, and consider Luigi my main. I've been playing since the release of Melee and lurking here for years. And I just list the characters I play/am working on. Strawmanning an argument is a bad thing.

That wasn't a strawman, that was just a plain ol' ad hominem, but that doesn't make the counter argument any better (still a red herring) and really only hurts a conversation.
I guess you could call it out as an appeal to accomplishment if you want to get a little more fancy :^)

 

[Bu$]

As someone coming to Smash from other fighting games, I don't understand why so many people seem so bent on removing landing lag.

Removing Landing lag in smash creates more movement and pace to the game. Reduced Landing lag from Ariels creates more room for offensive options and pressure. In my opinion makes the game more fun because you can attack instead of looking for a grab or zoning with projectiles.

 

[Big-Cat]

As someone coming to Smash from other fighting games, I don't understand why so many people seem so bent on removing landing lag.

Everyone's still riding Melee as the standard for Smash.

Yes, there's the whole thing about the increased pace, but I have no issues with the pace in Smash 4 currently. A more ground oriented approach works fine.

Removing Landing lag in smash creates more movement and pace to the game. Reduced Landing lag from Ariels creates more room for offensive options and pressure. In my opinion makes the game more fun because you can attack instead of looking for a grab or zoning with projectiles.

Then you're not being all that creative. You should be looking for openings and making openings.

And as it was mentioned in another thread, people seem to forget the RPS aspect of fighting games and Smash. Attack > Grab > Shield > Attack. There's also the fact that shields decay pretty quickly in this game. You put in all this wet dream pressure and the game becomes so offensive that shielding is all for naught, thereby degenerating the game's options.

 

[Epok]

that's nice that they have the standard equip, but it's such a teaseeeee. I wish it had stats more like +10 speed and -10 defense... arghghgh.

This would definitely be the best case scenario. But I have been playing it with adding the standard protection and Agility badge. These are also badges that have set stats and work on each character. It put your overall stats at +22atck -14def +7spd.

It looks a little wonky, but its not bad at all once you play it. People die aroud 120 rather than +140. And tge overall speed is a tad faster. To me it feels like smash 4 with a splash of project M.

 

[madworlder]

Removing Landing lag in smash creates more movement and pace to the game. Reduced Landing lag from Ariels creates more room for offensive options and pressure. In my opinion makes the game more fun because you can attack instead of looking for a grab or zoning with projectiles.

I just can't imagine, in any other fighting game, trying to modify the rules to create an environment that the game is quite obviously not designed to be.

 

[Epok]

I just can't imagine, in any other fighting game, trying to modify the rules to create an environment that the game is quite obviously not designed to be.

The problem is it's not like any other traditional fighting game. Not all the same rules apply. It's still partly designed to be a party game. Besides didn't they have turbo mode in SF2? Was that the competitive standard or not?

 

[RODO]

I thought the game was fine as is and was sort of against using equipment...until today. Curiosity got the best of me so I used a hammer on the "get all special moves" challenge block. Let me tell you, it feels soooo good using the smooth lander badge. I'm all for it now. Whatever it takes to make this tournament standard I'm down for it.

 

[metaXzero]

As someone coming to Smash from other fighting games, I don't understand why so many people seem so bent on removing landing lag.

Other fighting games you say? Last I checked, in most standard fighting games like Street Fighter, there is no aerial attack landing lag outside some specials. You approach with an aerial and your opponent blocks it, you're at a frame advantage. You do that in Brawl/Smash 4, and you get punished ( a little less so if you cross them up). It shouldn't be too surprising that some people don't like one of their few approach options being weak.

I just can't imagine, in any other fighting game, trying to modify the rules to create an environment that the game is quite obviously not designed to be.

Smash is not every other fighting game. The rules had to be changed to make the game not a joke competitively. It's been like this for over a decade. Do you think competitive Smash plays with items and every stage is available to choose too?

 

[RODO]

I just can't imagine, in any other fighting game, trying to modify the rules to create an environment that the game is quite obviously not designed to be.

How is it modifying the rules when the rules were made to be modified? The game doesn't tell you on the box that you have to play 5 minute matches or something. And let's not forget that this equipment is in the game and was made to be used. It's not like Nintendo made that badge hoping that no one would ever use it.

 

[Epok]

What If we just call the smooth lander set-up Smash 4 Turbo lol ? That way there is a clear distinction weather we are talking about "vanilla smash" or "turbo smash" with smooth lander equip.

 

[Big-Cat]

The problem is it's not like any other traditional fighting game. Not all the same rules apply. It's still partly designed to be a party game. Besides didn't they have turbo mode in SF2? Was that the competitive standard or not?

Maybe not all the rules apply, but this is the first Smash game to strive for competitive balance. We shouldn't write it being a different game as an excuse.

 

[madworlder]

Other fighting games you say? Last I checked, in most standard fighting games like Street Fighter, there is no aerial attack landing lag outside some specials. You approach with an aerial and your opponent blocks it, you're at a frame advantage. You do that in Brawl/Smash 4, and you get punished ( a little less so if you cross them up). It shouldn't be too surprising that some people don't like one of their few approach options being weak.

Actually, there is landing recovery in every fighting game I can think of, if you do a move. If you empty jump, there isn't, but that's the same in Smash as I understand. In most fighting games, you have to do late jumping attacks to gain advantage, shallow jump-ins can usually be punished by quick moves. If you do a late jumping attack, you can be anti-aired, with an invincible move or simply by a move with a good hitbox on it.

I'm just saying, the fighting game community is very "no johns" about the games they play. If you don't like how something is, you either adapt or don't play. I think Smash For is fine as it is, it seems perfectly competitive, and if the tournament standard came down to something as impractical as this equipment, I would certainly go back to other games before I spent time trying to unlock it.

 

[metaXzero]

Actually, there is landing recovery in every fighting game I can think of, if you do a move. If you empty jump, there isn't, but that's the same in Smash as I understand. In most fighting games, you have to do late jumping attacks to gain advantage, shallow jump-ins can usually be punished by quick moves. If you do a late jumping attack, you can be anti-aired, with an invincible move or simply by a move with a good hitbox on it.

I'm just saying, the fighting game community is very "no johns" about the games they play. If you don't like how something is, you either adapt or don't play. I think Smash For is fine as it is, it seems perfectly competitive, and if the tournament standard came down to something as impractical as this equipment, I would certainly go back to other games before I spent time trying to unlock it.

I'm fairly certain there is no difference between Empty jump lag and normal air attack lag in Street Fighter. Certain even divekicks like Rufus and Yun have the same minimal lag. But you're right. The safeness depends on what air attack you used (different blockstun) and at what part of the jump it was used. But usually, people go for late jumping attacks on grounded foes. If you have to block an air normal in most 2D fighting games, you're going to have to deal with more attacks when they land. Smash 4, you block any air attack at any point of the jump and you get a grab due to how much landing lag most aerials have.

If the Smash community was like the FGC, Smash 64, Melee, and Brawl would never have competitive scenes. But it isn't. Which is why during Melee and Brawl's period, there was alot of beef between the Smash community and the FGC. Well part of the reason of the beef. You may think Smash 4 is fine as is, but it's clear everyone isn't going to agree and not everyone simply wants to drop the game and move on like most FGC groups.

 

[LimitCrown]

Does the equipment "Smooth Landing" make a substantial difference for how most characters play? It seems like it would benefit characters that are already fast the most.

 

[Saito]

Small update to say that I still haven't found a single piece of equipment with Smooth landing on it.

It's been 25 days since the game came out.

The difficulty of finding this item is ridiculous.

I've come to inform you all that as of the 26th of November, I have found this item.

But it doesn't even work for every character. The one I have seems to be limited to people with gloves (I believe)

It's a lovely item though.

I still never even found it on the 3ds. I actually found it on the Wii U version.

 

[Epok]

Does the equipment "Smooth Landing" make a substantial difference for how most characters play? It seems like it would benefit characters that are already fast the most.

Actually not really because if they already have 0 landing land it can't get any lower? So I think it helps characters with more landing lag than less.

 

[Epok]

I've come to inform you all that as of the 26th of November, I have found this item.

But it doesn't even work for every character. The one I have seems to be limited to people with gloves (I believe)

It's a lovely item though.

I still never even found it on the 3ds. I actually found it on the Wii U version.

It's not the same one then. The one I have I made set ups for every character in the game. You get it by unlocking all the custom move sets in the game, or by opening the challenge window with a hammer.

 

[Saito]

It's not the same one then. The one I have I made set ups for every character in the game. You get it by unlocking all the custom move sets in the game, or by opening the challenge window with a hammer.

I haven't even been keeping up with this thread.

I was talking about my progress of finding one from RNG alone.

Then you say THIS?

Is this on the 3ds version or Wii U version?
What's the stat increase on it?

If you've answered these questions already don't answer because I'm about to go through your posts looking for the information.

 

[Epok]

Maybe not all the rules apply, but this is the first Smash game to strive for competitive balance. We shouldn't write it being a different game as an excuse.

But the fact that it is a different game style makes a HUGE difference and how we develop this to be competitive. It's just giving the community options on how we can play the game.

 

[Epok]

View attachment 31302

I haven't even been keeping up with this thread.

I was talking about my progress of finding one from RNG alone.

Then you say THIS?

Is this on the 3ds version or Wii U version?
What's the stat increase on it?

If you've answered these questions already don't answer because I'm about to go through your posts looking for the information.

+36atk/-35def, On the wiiu. You combine it standard agility and protection badge to even out the stats some.

 

[RODO]

View attachment 31302

I haven't even been keeping up with this thread.

I was talking about my progress of finding one from RNG alone.

Then you say THIS?

Is this on the 3ds version or Wii U version?
What's the stat increase on it?

If you've answered these questions already don't answer because I'm about to go through your posts looking for the information.

On the wii u version you beat all star in under 6 minutes with shulk and then use hammers on the 2 boxes above that and you have it.

 

[Saito]

+36atk/-35def, On the wiiu. You combine it standard agility and protection badge to even out the stats some.

On the wii u version you beat all star in under 6 minutes with shulk and then use hammers on the 2 boxes above that and you have it.

 

[Big-Cat]

But the fact that it is a different game style makes a HUGE difference and how we develop this to be competitive. It's just giving the community options on how we can play the game.

Doesn't mean the options are good. Do I need to remind you of gems?

 

[Epok]

Doesn't mean the options are good. Do I need to remind you of gems?

But you also don't know that it will be bad either. We won't know until we start really talking about this concept outside of this thread. We need let people know that this is even a potential option to play the game.

To be honest, I'm not 100% on this being tournament legal. However, I am 100% for testing this to see how the community response.

The hardest thing about this is there are a lot of varying way people interpret how to play this game. In saying that I think we should at least openly discuss all the options and see whats best. Who knows, maybe there be a way to do both at tourneys.

We need to stop hiding behind the stigmas of whats good and bad before we test it. What if M2K said "Yeah man smooth lander should be legal"? I bet a whole bunch of people would jump on the band wagon then.

 

[LimitCrown]

I personally don't think that the equipment is necessary or that it will improve the game substantially. The game seems to be fine the way it is.

 

[Epok]

I personally don't think that the equipment is necessary or that it will improve the game substantially. The game seems to be fine the way it is.

There have been quite a few people in here that have tried it and are really enjoying the flavor that it brings to the game.
I'm not saying that Smash 4 is bad and needs to be "fixed", but this could has potential to be a positive improvement on an already good game.

Have you gotten a chance to try it yet?

 

[LimitCrown]

There have been quite a few people in here that have tried it and are really enjoying the flavor that it brings to the game.
I'm not saying that Smash 4 is bad and needs to be "fixed", but this could has potential to be a positive improvement on an already good game.

Have you gotten a chance to try it yet?

In the 3DS version, I did obtain a Smooth Lander Shoes equipment with +22 Speed and -31 Attack. The decrease in landing lag was somewhat noticeable with Ness's down air and back air attacks. I may need to use the equipment with other characters.

 

[Epok]

If you have the wiiU version, there is one that can be used for every character that isn't and RNG. Very easy to unlock.

 

[Bu$]

I just can't imagine, in any other fighting game, trying to modify the rules to create an environment that the game is quite obviously not designed to be.

The designers of smash don't really care for the competitive community tbh and they're not going to cater anything for us because we are the minority of smash players. Nintendo just see us as a free marketing tool to sell more ****. That's it.