Meta Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity (SLHG)

[Muro]

btw, because their customs are unlocked from the start, I think we should allow palutena's and mii's. In the end this are only details though, SLHG is the main thing heh

 

[ZADD]

I'll be uploading matches as they happen folks so subscribe to my channel and you'll know when they're up.

Here's a cool doubles vid from last night, and a rematch between me and Trayvon.

 

[VeggieSteel]

btw, because their customs are unlocked from the start, I think we should allow palutena's and mii's. In the end this are only details though, SLHG is the main thing heh

I agree that for now we don't need to worry too much about a definitive ruleset (though personally, I think we should allow customs, both here and in vanilla smash4). It's probably worth mentioning that build 2 seems more and more to be the go-to format for SLHG, but all the technical specs, like stage list and stocks/time minutia, should work itself out in time.

@ ZADD : Great videos, SLHG doubles looks hype!

 

[blargh257]

Thanks for the games @ Jugoken ! Playing online is pretty taxing sometimes -_-. Still fun though.

 

[SaturnFrost]

Build 2 (Smooth Lander Brawn Badge/Moon Launcher Protection Badge/Item Hitter Agility Badge all from the challenge board) is in use. Heavy gravity is on. All other Special modes are off.

What are the stats for this build?

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

A couple questions

1) if we save a replay from an online match, will it get glitched up later?

2) I really do want to get into this mode because I like trying new things, but I worry that it will mess me up when I try to play "vanilla smash 4" in tournaments. Tried bowser jr's customs once they became legal and lost my ability to play as him in for glory. Has anybody else noticed any difficulty in switching between play styles? Or is there a possibility that because we are handicapping ourselves with heavy gravity that it actually helps us to play in tournaments better? Is that DBZ logic?

I had fun playing online Blargh I think peach is gonna be my main in this mode. Did you save any of the matches as replays? That might help with question 1.

 

[Muro]

What are the stats for this build?

-4a/+2d/+3s, check the OP in this thread.

A couple questions

1) if we save a replay from an online match, will it get glitched up later?

2) I really do want to get into this mode because I like trying new things, but I worry that it will mess me up when I try to play "vanilla smash 4" in tournaments. Tried bowser jr's customs once they became legal and lost my ability to play as him in for glory. Has anybody else noticed any difficulty in switching between play styles? Or is there a possibility that because we are handicapping ourselves with heavy gravity that it actually helps us to play in tournaments better? Is that DBZ logic?

I had fun playing online Blargh I think peach is gonna be my main in this mode. Did you save any of the matches as replays? That might help with question 1.

1) good question, somebody should try it.

2) probably best to play different characters between game modes. I lol'd at the DBZ comparison though haha.

Love seeing people play each other, I want to jump into the fray but I'm kinda busy :S

 

[SaturnFrost]

anyone wanna test Build 1 online? Id : SaturnFrost

 

[Kwam$tack$]

Man ive been waiting the whole weekend to get back home n try this lol. This **** is huge!

 

[Jugoken]

Thanks for the games @ Jugoken ! Playing online is pretty taxing sometimes -_-. Still fun though.

lol AGREED your falcon is THE BEAST~ The random lag and salt burnssss xDDDD But it was a blast! :D

 

[SuaveChaser]

wow this works online now got a reason to hop off 200cc for awhile lol.

 

[blargh257]

A couple questions

1) if we save a replay from an online match, will it get glitched up later?

2) I really do want to get into this mode because I like trying new things, but I worry that it will mess me up when I try to play "vanilla smash 4" in tournaments. Tried bowser jr's customs once they became legal and lost my ability to play as him in for glory. Has anybody else noticed any difficulty in switching between play styles? Or is there a possibility that because we are handicapping ourselves with heavy gravity that it actually helps us to play in tournaments better? Is that DBZ logic?

I had fun playing online Blargh I think peach is gonna be my main in this mode. Did you save any of the matches as replays? That might help with question 1.

1) To my surprise, replays work from online. I have one from my games with Jugoken.
2) I don't play core Smash 4 but I do play Melee and I have no issue adjusting there. I can see if you have issues because Smash 4 and SLHG Smash 4 are obviously very similar.

 

[Balgorxz]

for the people playing with Build 1 what are the good points over build 2?
NNID for bodying me on SLHG :jota281usa

 

[SaturnFrost]

for the people playing with Build 1 what are the good points over build 2?
NNID for bodying me on SLHG :jota281usa

Characters die faster..Death percents feel similar to melee. More stocks (i use 4) and 8 minutes. Games usually last about 3-4 minutes

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Yes please add me my NNID is Geek4Jesus

I don't have any of the regular builds yet but I'll be working on it when I have the time.

Quick suggestion, feel free to disagree since I just got here: if we really want this to be more popular, if we really want this to be "project m hd", then we need to make the standard as easy as possible for people to access. It's not too hard to get build 2, but using one hammer to get build 1 seems more optimal, especially if the damage output is similar to melee as SaturnFrost claims. That should probably be what we want to work with primarily from now on.

Also a bit of trivia: the first smash @ xanadu monthly was supposed to have SLHG as a side event. People are taking notice

 

[oldkingcroz]

@ SaturnFrost : I'm confused. How does heavy gravity and low landing lagg affect death percents? Other than not being able to kill off the top?

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

@ SaturnFrost : I'm confused. How does heavy gravity and low landing lagg affect death percents? Other than not being able to kill off the top?

It's the boost in attack power from the brawn badge probably

 

[SaturnFrost]

@ SaturnFrost : I'm confused. How does heavy gravity and low landing lagg affect death percents? Other than not being able to kill off the top?

It's the boost in attack power from the brawn badge probably

Pretty much this. The boost in Attack and Decrease in Defense.
Also Killing off the top with the stats boost is quite doable as well.

 

[oldkingcroz]

It's the boost in attack power from the brawn badge probably

But how does the badge change knockback? Doesn't it just change damage on certain moves?

 

[ZADD]

Defense affects knockback, the problem I see with build 1 is serious Up-tilt/U-air abuse

 

[SaturnFrost]

But how does the badge change knockback? Doesn't it just change damage on certain moves?

attack affects % given and Knock back...Defense affects percent taken and knock back...The 2 having extreme differences on the scale makes Attack (% and knock back ) Go up by alot. Give it a try, cus im not sure if im explaining it well enough.

 

[SaturnFrost]

Defense affects knockback, the problem I see with build 1 is serious Up-tilt/U-air abuse

i like the combinability with up tilts.

 

[Jugoken]

attack affects % given and Knock back...Defense affects percent taken and knock back...The 2 having extreme differences on the scale makes Attack (% and knock back ) Go up by alot. Give it a try, cus im not sure if im explaining it well enough.

Saturn wanna play a few rounds since were both on? I added ya

 

[SaturnFrost]

Saturn wanna play a few rounds since were both on? I added ya

sure

 

[Jugoken]

sure

I'll make the room!

 

[SaturnFrost]

I'll make the room!

lol...whats rules?also buld 1?

 

[Jugoken]

3 stock 7 minutes Build 1

lol...whats rules?also buld 1?

 

[SaturnFrost]

3 stock 7 minutes Build 1

fun gg's but laggy aF bruh
gotta go for 10 minutes
ill be backk
Back...Leggo ^_^

 

[Jugoken]

fun gg's but laggy aF bruh
gotta go for 10 minutes
ill be backk

TrUUUe Lag is real! XD

 

[oldkingcroz]

attack affects % given and Knock back...Defense affects percent taken and knock back...The 2 having extreme differences on the scale makes Attack (% and knock back ) Go up by alot. Give it a try, cus im not sure if im explaining it well enough.

You're explaining fine. I was just confused, since I thought when "attack" increases it acts like buster Shulk (where solely damage increases, with knockback being an entirely different variable).
I mean I'll try it out if I get the chance. I think my family used up all of the prize hammers, though.

 

[SaturnFrost]

TrUUUe Lag is real! XD

GGs dude...This mode is nuts lol

 

[Jugoken]

GGs dude...This mode is nuts lol

TODAY I LEARNED

Marth ***** Lucina, SLGH is NUTS, SaturnCore has the Sharingan, and I am only Super Saiyan 2 Toon Link to your Super Saiyan 3 Falco.....GOLLY GOOD GAMES XDDD

 

[Muro]

1) To my surprise, replays work from online. I have one from my games with Jugoken.
2) I don't play core Smash 4 but I do play Melee and I have no issue adjusting there. I can see if you have issues because Smash 4 and SLHG Smash 4 are obviously very similar.

It's kinda crazy and cool that replays work. Does it say "special smash" in the preview? Also, replay sharing is a thing, although I haven't looked too much into it, anybody know how it works?

Also a bit of trivia: the first smash @ xanadu monthly was supposed to have SLHG as a side event. People are taking notice

huh, did that go down already? was it streamed? I completely missed it.


On another note, this is my preliminary ruleset. It's pretty close to blargh's, just with a couple changes.
Build 2 is in use. Heavy gravity is on. All other Special modes are off.
3 stock 8 minutes (same as brawl)
Custom moves are not allowed with the following exceptions
- Mega man's up-b is banned under the stalling rule. He must use Tornado Hold (challenge M7)
- All custom moves unlocked without randomness (palutena and mii).
Items are off, obviously.
Standard timeout rules.
Stage List:
Starters
-Battlefield
-Final Destination
-Smashville
Counterpick
-Town and City
-Lylat Cruise
-Halberd
-Omega Stages (any)

Banning FD bans Omegas and vice versa.

Now, some discussion topics:

- build 1 vs build 2:
Build 2 allows more horizontal combos and since it buffs vertical damage doesn't suffer as much from u-tilt shenanigans. It is logistically harder to unlock, but not by much (certainly not when comparing with custom moves for example). Build 1 is easier to unlock, and has increased damage and knockback. I like increased damage for 1 main reason, it also affects shield damage. Shields are still very strong even with SLHG, so nerfing them is quite alright. However build 1 makes some followups impossible especially horizontal followups. The increased KB also kinda makes up for the lack of moon launching in the up-tilt stuff. Build one also makes kills happen sooner, don't really have an oppinion on that one. Regarding up-tilts it's hard to tell without actually testing it how strong they are. We should discover what the optimal DI is, how viable it is to SDI them, at what percentages they work, etc etc. At the end of the day this may be a quirk we just have to put up with, shouldn't be much worse than the base game though.

- 3 stock vs 4 stock:
I think 3 stock is better. The game is not quite as volatile or fast as melee, but it's a great deal faster than the base game, and there are 3 stock tournaments for even that. The first topic may also influence this.

- Customs on vs off:
I'm partial to customs off. I think many of them, although not broken, make the game lose some complexity. Also, custom moves have plenty of support already, and this way SLHG offers some variety. Maybe we should consider custom stages though, specially catered to SLHG. In a ruleset with customs off, I think palutena's and mii's should be allowed, they're unlocked from the start which makes them as much a part of their movesets as the standard specials.

Tell me what you guys think.

 

[HalfBakedHarry]

Hello, I'm really happy to see online become an option for SLHG but I just wanted to ask why Build 2 has become standard when it has that x1.3 boost to damage on the vertical knockback moves - Isn't that a rather large boost in damage :l I was always running the same set with the D7 Caloric Immortal Protection Badge that nets you with -4 / -9 / -5 stats. If a tournament does get set up I'd love to play, although I'm not that interested in Sm4sh in general so it will probably be a free win.

I do think we should allow the Custom UP-Bs for Sonic and Megaman. I think Palutena and Miis should have their customs in vanilla so I'm all for them being allowed in here.

 

[Muro]

why Build 2 has become standard when it has that x1.3 boost to damage on the vertical knockback moves - Isn't that a rather large boost in damage :l I was always running the same set with the D7 Caloric Immortal Protection Badge that nets you with -4 / -9 / -5 stats.

I thought of that one. But 5 sec invincibility is kind of a bummer, even if it's not abuseable. I think that build is the most suited for SL only tournaments though. Buffed up-everything kinda goes hand in hand with heavy gravity, since upwards killing moves got nerfed. Moon launcher restores the balance somewhat.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

So which build do you guys think is the best? I've been playing build 1 exclusively and been having a blast so far. But I'm curious how the moon launcher ability changes/balances out certain things.

Either way, I may want to host something of a small Smooth Gravity tournament at my local scene up in Edmonton Canada. Just to have an official tournament on the internet as to spread awareness. I don't know if it will be small like Top 8 on one WiiU to keep it small, or if other people would want to add their WiiUs to the cause and make it bigger. If this was to be run, I would probably use build 1 to make it the easiest to unlock.

 

[Muro]

So which build do you guys think is the best? I've been playing build 1 exclusively and been having a blast so far. But I'm curious how the moon launcher ability changes/balances out certain things.

Either way, I may want to host something of a small Smooth Gravity tournament at my local scene up in Edmonton Canada. Just to have an official tournament on the internet as to spread awareness. I don't know if it will be small like Top 8 on one WiiU to keep it small, or if other people would want to add their WiiUs to the cause and make it bigger. If this was to be run, I would probably use build 1 to make it the easiest to unlock.

See my previous post on what I think the differences are. I've been playing mostly build 2 and it seems like it's the most popular in this thread, but I'm 50:50 on which is best, we need more playtime. Whatever ends up being popular will probably be the default one.

Also, can't we transfer build 2 from one wii u to another in a similar manner as the custom moveset project does? I haven't looked into it but it should work the same way right?

Also, huge props for setting up a SLHG tournament dude, good luck.

 

[ZADD]

So which build do you guys think is the best? I've been playing build 1 exclusively and been having a blast so far. But I'm curious how the moon launcher ability changes/balances out certain things.

I've had A LOT of experience with PVP concerning build 1 and 2 and I can honestly say Build 2 is more of what we expect from a balance standpoint. In the right hands, Up-tilts to U-airs in Build 1 can be absolutely absurd (Think Rosalina). Build 2's increased knockback is a GOOD THING, believe me it gives you just enough time and knockback to DI yourself out of a 70% Up-tilt storm into Up-smash. Also for Fox, Up smash is one of his defining kill moves, and Build 1 really hurts that. Moon Launcher allows for knockback to function (relatively) similarly to vanilla sm4sh, but at the same time including the extra hitstun that comes with heavy gravity. Both builds are technically SLHG, but honestly I believe you would have much more "competitive" matches from Build 2. Just my opinion.

 

[Jugoken]

It's kinda crazy and cool that replays work. Does it say "special smash" in the preview? Also, replay sharing is a thing, although I haven't looked too much into it, anybody know how it works?



huh, did that go down already? was it streamed? I completely missed it.


On another note, this is my preliminary ruleset. It's pretty close to blargh's, just with a couple changes.
Build 2 is in use. Heavy gravity is on. All other Special modes are off.
3 stock 8 minutes (same as brawl)
Custom moves are not allowed with the following exceptions
- Mega man's up-b is banned under the stalling rule. He must use Tornado Hold (challenge M7)
- All custom moves unlocked without randomness (palutena and mii).
Items are off, obviously.
Standard timeout rules.
Stage List:
Starters
-Battlefield
-Final Destination
-Smashville
Counterpick
-Town and City
-Lylat Cruise
-Halberd
-Omega Stages (any)

Banning FD bans Omegas and vice versa.

Now, some discussion topics:

- build 1 vs build 2:
Build 2 allows more horizontal combos and since it buffs vertical damage doesn't suffer as much from u-tilt shenanigans. It is logistically harder to unlock, but not by much (certainly not when comparing with custom moves for example). Build 1 is easier to unlock, and has increased damage and knockback. I like increased damage for 1 main reason, it also affects shield damage. Shields are still very strong even with SLHG, so nerfing them is quite alright. However build 1 makes some followups impossible especially horizontal followups. The increased KB also kinda makes up for the lack of moon launching in the up-tilt stuff. Build one also makes kills happen sooner, don't really have an oppinion on that one. Regarding up-tilts it's hard to tell without actually testing it how strong they are. We should discover what the optimal DI is, how viable it is to SDI them, at what percentages they work, etc etc. At the end of the day this may be a quirk we just have to put up with, shouldn't be much worse than the base game though.

- 3 stock vs 4 stock:
I think 3 stock is better. The game is not quite as volatile or fast as melee, but it's a great deal faster than the base game, and there are 3 stock tournaments for even that. The first topic may also influence this.

- Customs on vs off:
I'm partial to customs off. I think many of them, although not broken, make the game lose some complexity. Also, custom moves have plenty of support already, and this way SLHG offers some variety. Maybe we should consider custom stages though, specially catered to SLHG. In a ruleset with customs off, I think palutena's and mii's should be allowed, they're unlocked from the start which makes them as much a part of their movesets as the standard specials.

Tell me what you guys think.

I like 4, but its probably cuz i feel salty for gettin 3 stocked in this mode haha!! 3 is good~

Yeah i see now customs suck for this mode, they seem to break this modes meta and there a ******* to get so it makes other at a disadvantage for not having the option.

What do you think about decreasing the launch ratio to 0.9x so it makes follow ups in build 1 easier and to help with nerfing the atk boost knockback of smoothlander?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz8m2GflaNI TheRealCarpetnter also changes his launch ratio it seems when playing SLGH online

 

[Muro]

What do you think about decreasing the launch ratio to 0.9x so it makes follow ups in build 1 easier and to help with nerfing the atk boost knockback of smoothlander?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz8m2GflaNI TheRealCarpetnter also changes his launch ratio it seems when playing SLGH online

I tried his setup just to test it out. He's not using build 1, he's using SL badge only, so +36a/-35d/0s. I thought it was a good idea because it's very simple to set up, but the damage is ridiculous man. Also, even with the ridiculous damage, 0.9 knockback overcompensates and becomes harder to kill. So now we have a metagame where it's very easy to build damage through a few moves, but it's hard to kill at late percents. This makes it so that most of the game is spent at high percents where there are not many combos. Using build 1 could compensate for the ridiculous damage but then killing becomes even more of a problem. I think our setup is better for those reasons.

Also, lol'd at "TheRealCarpenter" haha

Spoiler

(it's supposed to be carterer lol)