Meta Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity (SLHG)

[L9999]

I thought he was way better?

Than vainilla Smash 4 Bowser.

 

[Muro]

For everyone saying megaman's recovery is bad. I put this video in the OP, but it seems it didn't get much attention lol. If anything his up-b needs a dedicated anti-stalling rule like melee jiggs or brawl mk, or forced switch to his other up-b.

 

[B!squick]

For everyone saying megaman's recovery is bad. I put this video in the OP, but it seems it didn't get much attention lol. If anything his up-b needs a dedicated anti-stalling rule like melee jiggs or brawl mk, or forced switch to his other up-b.

Ha. Megaman for top tier in SLHG.

 

[ZADD]

@ B!squick A guy in my house uses bowser in SLHG with the custom Dash Slash. He's a real threat (even without the custom), less landing lag benefits him tremendously just like all heavy characters. I think you're used to aerials sending opponents far away so that followups cant happen, which happens in vanilla but not in SLHG. With Heavy Gravity a F-air sends an opponent forward and down as they smack the stage, forcing them to tech. If they miss the tech, you get a nice juicy F-smash on em cuz your Fair cancelled pretty much the moment you hit the ground. So yeah Bowser is legit.

 

[shapular]

For everyone saying megaman's recovery is bad. I put this video in the OP, but it seems it didn't get much attention lol. If anything his up-b needs a dedicated anti-stalling rule like melee jiggs or brawl mk, or forced switch to his other up-b.

So SHLG actually gives us an infinite stall? That's ironic.

 

[Muro]

So SHLG actually gives us an infinite stall? That's ironic.

First and foremost it gives good gameplay. It has a few quirks, but the core is something worth playing.

 

[shapular]

First and foremost it gives good gameplay. It has a few quirks, but the core is something worth playing.

So does regular Smash 4.

 

[Captain Norris]

This mode is really interesting, but let me understand this: This is not intended to replace the Smash 4 vanilla meta, right? I mean, it hasn't even been a year into the Smash 4 meta. I know you said in the first post that this is for other threads, but I am just clarifying that this is not the intention for this thread.

 

[Muro]

This mode is really interesting, but let me understand this: This is not intended to replace the Smash 4 vanilla meta, right? I mean, it hasn't even been a year into the Smash 4 meta. I know you said in the first post that this is for other threads, but I am just clarifying that this is not the intention for this thread.

This thread a reference so if you want to tell your friends about it you just need to link this one thread and be done with it. Vanilla sm4sh won't be replaced don't worry.

 

[Captain Norris]

Yeah that is what I thought. I guess I will mess around with it with some friends.
In addition to this, has anyone tried raising/lowering knockback ratio, with the vanilla or including these set ups. Could change it up if you lowered it down 0.1 or however least you can lower it (wow terrible grammar lol)

 

[micstar615]

So does regular Smash 4.

All smash games have quirks and gameplay is subjective. This mode is for people who are looking for an alternative way to enjoy vanilla. Not a hard concept.

 

[W.A.C.]

I would find some way to incorporate Glider into one of those setups. My biggest issue with Smash Wii U's controls is the fact your running speed does not carry into jumps like it does in Melee and Project M, and that equipment sounds like it makes that design flaw less annoying. Can't comment too much on Glider's quality as equipment since I have no idea how to unlock it. Also, while I hate Heavy Gravity, Anchor Jump does not look bad to me but I would need to try it for myself.

 

[SAHunterMech]

It really sucks, but Glider equipment with fixed stats isn't available as a reward of any kind in the game. Still, it's fairly common as an RNG-drop, and it doesn't take too long to get a generic badge that everyone can equip. Anchor Jump, on the other hand, is one of the rarest effects I've seen. It's one thing to actually get it; it's another to get it on a generic badge. I farmed Crazy Orders with the Home-Run bat exploit, day in, day out, and I never got it. I only have it on a helmet equipment piece.

Regardless, I've been experimenting with reduced knockback/smooth lander/glider in vanilla, and it shows real promise. I'm sure it could work in Heavy Gravity as well. Maybe we'll be able to hack equipment down the line; that would be nice.

 

[Muro]

@ SAHunterMech do you have an amiibo? there's a method for farming equipment with them, maybe that'll help you easy the farming process.

Pikachu becomes 10 times better in SLHG once you realize you can follow pretty much anything with a quick attack, and you can then follow that up too. Couple that with amazing offstage game and I think he's one of the best characters. Then add all the quick attack cancelling tricks... a joy to play

 

[Gamebox_64]

ive found that just buffing speed a bit on the cast like +50-70 with smooth lander makes the game feel like melee 2.0 without the need of HG then you dont need to suffer the nerfs from HG but it allows for crazy combos and earlier deaths.

 

[SAHunterMech]

ive found that just buffing speed a bit on the cast like +50-70 with smooth lander makes the game feel like melee 2.0 without the need of HG then you dont need to suffer the nerfs from HG but it allows for crazy combos and earlier deaths.

What are your thoughts on jump height with speed set that high? Is it too good?

Also, have you given glider a whirl with smooth lander? I'd be interested to hear what you think about that as well.

 

[Gamebox_64]

What are your thoughts on jump height with speed set that high? Is it too good?

Also, have you given glider a whirl with smooth lander? I'd be interes.ted to hear what you think about that as well.

me and my bro tested playing with buffing chars slghtly to sort of optimize them and found some crazy stuff like drmario down throw fair killimg wario down throw into waft just lots of cool combos from upping the speed. and it all feels balanced because the game was made with these stat boosta in mind

i havent tried any other equips with effects though besides smooth lander

 

[Muro]

@ Gamebox_64 we like the nerfs to recovery though, it's a reason we like HG.

Another thing I'd like to know is anchor jump. I dismissed it at first because It's random and I didn't think it was like HG, but apparently people in other threads used it and it's like a HG equipment. While it has random stats and I wouldn't use it offline, it might allow us to play online with each other, even if we'd have to play with some uneven stats. Can somebody who has it confirm if it's really like HG?

@ Balgorxz I think you tried to tell me this and I didn't understand lol

 

[Balgorxz]

yeah anchor jump its the same than SLHG

 

[Gamebox_64]

however by optimizing char stats by buffing speed and power a bit (whixh results in a slight def drop) combos last longer and people get kod way faster theres no need to nerf recoveries, also people are learning to punishing recoveries even in the vanilla game so they arent a problem. hell i was playing 4 stock matches this way and running in melee time.

 

[SAHunterMech]

My only question is... How high can someone jump, on average, with your settings?

we like the nerfs to recovery though, it's a reason we like HG.

No offense, but, speak for yourself. I like regular gravity, with enhanced recoveries thanks to glider. I think it encourages more off-stage ledge guarding, since you're less likely to SD.

I think we can all agree though, that smooth lander is the key ingredient in what makes the awesome happen. IMHO, balancing via landing-lag is shoddy at best.

 

[Muro]

yeah anchor jump its the same than SLHG

I think I'm gonna have to farm for it then If the effects are exactly the same from HG that's pretty cool. I'll have to test it myself but it's definitely going in the OP if it is indeed a copy of HG effect in equipment form. Btw what's the fastest way to get it?

however by optimizing char stats by buffing speed and power a bit (whixh results in a slight def drop) combos last longer and people get kod way faster theres no need to nerf recoveries, also people are learning to punishing recoveries even in the vanilla game so they arent a problem. hell i was playing 4 stock matches this way and running in melee time.

Look if you don't like heavy gravity it's fine, It's your preference. However there's no question that recovering is more dangerous in heavy gravity, and I like that. In the base game you have too many options to recover, which makes guarding the ledge a much better proposition than going offstage. HG limits the options for recovery so that not only you have to recover more horizontally, your recovery will be more predictable because before the edgeguard even begins you have already used some of your options. It also makes characters more unique in their playstyles, some characters are good at recovery and edgeguarding like shiek and pikachu, some are only good at recovering like ZSS though going offstage to edgeguard is dangerous for her, others are better off staying on stage etc etc

No offense, but, speak for yourself. I like regular gravity, with enhanced recoveries thanks to glider. I think it encourages more off-stage ledge guarding, since you're less likely to SD.

I think we can all agree though, that smooth lander is the key ingredient in what makes the awesome happen. IMHO, balancing via landing-lag is shoddy at best.

None taken, we're talking video games here lol and yes, I can only speak for myself. Given the thread we're in though, I don't think I'm the only one. Normal gravity and buffed recoveries on top of that? It doesn't appeal to my personal taste.

 

[micstar615]

I prefer the gravity changes in HG, I don't like how anyone can get back on the stage so easily in vanilla, it's like sending people off stage doesn't matter unless you can follow up with a gimp and gimps aren't guaranteed. Also the gravity change benefits characters like Jiggs and Zelda because their floatiness allows them to be good off stage. It's a preferential thing but the game feels less like a poke fest with HG so I prefer it.

 

[Gamebox_64]

well i guess its just a matter of opinion and i respect yours i just feel with HG on it takes away from all that cool ledge play smash 4 offers, and from what ive tested jump height is fine with buffed chars, and if its shorthopping youre worried about that works just the same as normal.

i would like to add though with this optimizing chars idea it adds infinite more options and combos for the whole cast and there are so many low percent kill setups that chars gain so its not all that living to 130 crap, stocks go fast.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Well, I'll give your numbers a whirl; Couldn't hurt.

And yeah, the way I see it, we're all Smooth Lander bros here. If there's enough of us, we'll have to get some kind of recognition.

 

[Gunla]

well i guess its just a matter of opinion and i respect yours i just feel with HG on it takes away from all that cool ledge play smash 4 offers, and from what ive tested jump height is fine with buffed chars, and if its shorthopping youre worried about that works just the same as normal.

i would like to add though with this optimizing chars idea it adds infinite more options and combos for the whole cast and there are so many low percent kill setups that chars gain so its not all that living to 130 crap, stocks go fast.

Instead of double posting, please use the edit function.

(Carry on.)

 

[Gamebox_64]

my bad, but yeah any way you look at it theres something there that could really bring out this games potential and im glad to see others exploring this stuff so thats why i wanyed to share what ive been exploring.

 

[micstar615]

Smooth lander alone makes the game a lot funner, i was losing interest in sm4sh but I've been playing SLHG non stop for weeks, it's exactly what I wanted from a gameplay perspective.

 

[Muro]

Ok, y’all have been experimenting with different kinds of equipment, what's the fastest/easiest way to unlock anchor jump so I can test it? @ SAHunterMech @ Balgorxz @ Gamebox_64 @ SpandexBullets , or anybody else that knows of a good method...

 

[Balgorxz]

I have 7 SL and 4 Anchor Jumps, I got them by this method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXZtgV-DCCA

 

[micstar615]

I have 7 SL and 4 Anchor Jumps, I got them by this method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXZtgV-DCCA

What equipment do you use for Crazy Orders and is there an easy way to get them? That home run bat one seems useful for this

 

[Balgorxz]

What equipment do you use for Crazy Orders and is there an easy way to get them? That home run bat one seems useful for this

invincibility,homerum bat,lifesteal

 

[SpandexBullets]

Ok, y’all have been experimenting with different kinds of equipment, what's the fastest/easiest way to unlock anchor jump so I can test it? @ SAHunterMech @ Balgorxz @ Gamebox_64 @ SpandexBullets , or anybody else that knows of a good method...

It's friggin useless. It increases your fall speed, yes, but it does not affect your gravity, nor does it affect your recovery a la Sonic/Megaman/Olimar.

The only way I've been able to neutralise the jump nerf is with 'Springer'. Unfortunately, however, any equipment that increases your jump height likewise increases your short-hop.
So; Marth, Ike, Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Falco, Falcon etc jump far too high when doing a shffl'd aerial.

NEW HEAVY GRAVITYSTUFF: giving any character your want Smooth lander, Springer and whatever else (SL, Springer and Pro Glider is literally 1:1 melee jigglypuff) makes them infinitely more playable, but there's a few large snags.
Using an aerial mid-air makes character fall immediately; there's no slowdown so the move can execute and connect, it just starts falling the second you throw one out.
Using springer is such a relief; it actually feels like this whole thing could work in some form. However, having tested every jump shortening and heightening equipment combination available, I've found that it's totally impossible to restore a characters jump without disproportionately increasing their short-hop. It's a immense shame too, as it seemingly makes no sense that your short-hop is not affected by the same gravity as your full jump.
I almost had melee Marth working fine; the u-throw - up tilt & up air/n-air combos were almost identical, and if the grab lag wasn't in this game, he would be able to chain throw fox to oblivion.
Some characters fall even faster than their melee counterparts, although Marth, Fox, Jiggly, Yoshi and a few others are very much 1:1. Take this how you will, every character falls approximately 1.4 times faster, for better or worse.
Second jumps are minimally nerfed, but it's almost unnoticeable.

NICE THINGS:
Giving a character 'floaty jump' as well makes them fall at about their respective brawl speed. Meta Knight works pretty well with it, when combined with 'mid air jump'.

If all of the above hurdles can be crossed through any means, I would love to research this further.

 

[Balgorxz]

yeah some characters benefit a lot from some effects (mostly the ones that aren't dumb), we could test which effects are more comptable with some characters than others.

 

[DunnoBro]

Does anyone know the stat effects from the Double Final Smasher Protection Badge (equipment) that you get from the 9.0 intensity challenge?

I believe there may be a universal smooth lander set that utilizes that, the smooth lander brawn badge, and the item hitter agility badge that are all acquirable via challenges.

The effects they bring would never really be utilized in standard play, but could have a balanced stat spread while having the smooth lander effect.

 

[Balgorxz]

Does anyone know the stat effects from the Double Final Smasher Protection Badge (equipment) that you get from the 9.0 intensity challenge?

I believe there may be a universal smooth lander set that utilizes that, the smooth lander badge, and the item hitter agility badge that are all acquirable via challenges.

The effects they bring would never really be utilized in standard play.

remember this is mainly about experimenting for normal gameplay not about competitive gameplay, its about new ways of having fun that might lead to different ways of "standard play".

 

[DunnoBro]

remember this is mainly about experimenting for normal gameplay not about competitive gameplay, its about new ways of having fun that might lead to different ways of "standard play".

I'm aware, but these are badges so they work for all characters. It would cut down a LOT on grind time if people could just complete these challenges and be done. (the other two challenges can be gold hammered for their equipment)

 

[Muro]

It's friggin useless. It increases your fall speed, yes, but it does not affect your gravity, nor does it affect your recovery a la Sonic/Megaman/Olimar.

Oh, so it's not 1:1 HG in equipment? bummer.

For the sake of clarity..

HG:
Knockback: less knockback upwards, no change to hitstun.
Jump height: decreased.
Fall speed: increased.

Anchor jump:
Knockback: no change?
Jump height: decreased?
Fall speed: increased?

Does anyone know the stat effects from the Double Final Smasher Protection Badge (equipment) that you get from the 9.0 intensity challenge?

They're all in the OP. But here they are again:

All the badges + stats:

In this section:
"-" = can't use hammer on this challenge

Challenge  Name  Stats  Description
A1(-)  Double Final Smasher Protection Badge  0a/+43d/-42s  After using a Final Smash, you have a 20% chance of being able to use it again
A2(-)  Vampire Brawn Badge  +25a/-38d/0s  recover damage relative to damage dealt
B2  Moon Launcher Protection Badge  0a/+37/-30s  1.3 attack power when launching enemies upward
B6  Item Hitter Agility Badge  -40a/0d/+33s  1.5 attack power to battering items
D7  Caloric Immortal Protection Badge  0a/+26d/-38s  5 second invincibility after eating
E1  Desperate Specialist Agility Badge  -33a/0d/+25s  gradually increases attack defense and speed for 20 seconds when damage reaches 100%
E4(-)  Perfect-Shield Helper Brawn Badge  +20a/-35d/0s  makes it easier to perfect shield
E5  Unharmed Attacker Agility Badge  -27a/0d/+32s  1.5x attack while at 0%
G1  Trade-Off Attacker Protection Badge  0a/+28d/-25s  start with 30% and have 1.15x attack.
I5  Unharmed Swift Striker Agility Badge  -27a/0d/+23s  gradually increases attack and speed while at 0%
J3  Speed Crasher Agility Badge  -25a/0d/+20s  dash deals damage
K7  No-Flinch Smasher Protection Badge  0a/+15d/-29s  super armor while charging smash attacks
K9  Hyper Smasher Brawn Badge  +16a/-28d/0s  charge smash attacks for longer, smash attacks  get 1.3x power
L6  Nimble Dodger Agility Badge  -23a/0d/+23s  gives a little extra time to dodge an enemy attack
M2  Air Attacker Brawn Badge  +20a/-19d/0s  1.15 attack when in mid-air
N6  Shield Regenerator Protection Badge  0a/+10d/-16s  shield regenerates faster

 

[SpandexBullets]

yeah some characters benefit a lot from some effects (mostly the ones that aren't dumb), we could test which effects are more comptable with some characters than others.

I have, with Smooth Lander, Springer and a balancing or extra piece of equipment. Every character I've tried this with has had their speed totally balanced, and defence does NOT affect falling speed in HG, despite the game saying it effects weight.

Fox, Falco, Falcon...ok - every character that doesn't rely on a recovery that propels them benefits from this. ALL OF THEM.
Heavy Gravity interrupts a lot of the limitations placed with normal smash on footsies; your can attack downed opponents immediately, attacking characters below a platform leads into a combo, thrown items combo etc. It adds an unbelievable amount of comboing ability to every character I've tested it with. Unlike Melee, however, nearly every damn aerial in this game is a kill move, so juggling is the major improvement in all characters. I am not proficient at ken comboing, so I don't know if works on either Marth or Lucina, but it'll probably go to the latter. But, as I mentioned above, the short hop height is still an issue.

And just to clarify, Heavy Gravity doesn't lower vertical knockback, it makes it fall in an arc siiightly, so totally vertical knockback falls in on itself, as if the character was paralysed by hitstun. If that doesn't make sense, look at how horizontal knockback is affected, and notice the slight curve that brings opponents down again, thus making aerial combos in this mode actually possible.

Does anyone know the stat effects from the Double Final Smasher Protection Badge (equipment) that you get from the 9.0 intensity challenge?

I believe there may be a universal smooth lander set that utilizes that, the smooth lander brawn badge, and the item hitter agility badge that are all acquirable via challenges.

The effects they bring would never really be utilized in standard play, but could have a balanced stat spread while having the smooth lander effect.

reiterate what your mean, item hitter? What equipment do you think would be useful, and in what way?

remember this is mainly about experimenting for normal gameplay not about competitive gameplay, its about new ways of having fun that might lead to different ways of "standard play".

reiterate what your mean, item hitter? What equipment do you think would be useful, and in what way?

btw, the only reason I'm not implying that this could lead to competitive gameplay is to stop any beautiful greek gods from jumping down and proclaiming the uselessness of equipment and that we should all just play Project: M instead.

 

[SpandexBullets]

remember this is mainly about experimenting for normal gameplay not about competitive gameplay, its about new ways of having fun that might lead to different ways of "standard play".

reiterate what your mean, item hitter? What equipment do you think would be useful, and in what way?

btw, the only reason I'm not implying that this could lead to competitive gameplay is to stop any beautiful greek gods from jumping down and proclaiming the uselessness of equipment and that we should all just play Project: M instead.