Meta Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity (SLHG)

[Baby_Sneak]

I'll try out this thing later guys. Sorry, I've been so sucked in to double super brawn + tail smash. But I will try this out though.

EDIT: oh yeah, and you guys should absolutely add tail on in special smash. You'll be amazed on what this little thing can do............. It's glorious.

 

[ZADD]

Havn't seen much activity here so I thought I'd post a few vids of me and Donutz. He really needs to work on his DI...


First confirmed PvP Ken Combo?

Also, a great match with his Dedede. We're both still learning these characters.

 

[SaturnFrost]

we need a sLhg tournament asap..and it needs to be streamed...The world needs to see how competitively viable this mode is (especially in comparison to vanilla sm4sh). I know this is easier said than done,becuase i for one dont have the resources to host said event, but it would be amazing if it were to happen.

 

[Muro]

we need a sLhg tournament asap..and it needs to be streamed...The world needs to see how competitively viable this mode is (especially in comparison to vanilla sm4sh). I know this is easier said than done,becuase i for one dont have the resources to host said event, but it would be amazing if it were to happen.

We could also use more content creators. I'm planning on acquiring a recording card but I dunno when I'll be able to.

Something I think everyone could work on is a recovery showcase in HG. It's one of the most common complaints and it's baseless. If we had a series of videos showcasing recoveries that argument becomes easier to illustrate than just using words. This is also something we could do as a community, everyone gets assigned a set of characters and then we send the videos to @ ZADD (if he agrees of course) and he uploads them in a playlist on his channel.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

I've been in the lab and I've been testing different customs for characters who's recoveries really hinder, and here is what I found out.

Diddy Kong: Although he's still a god onstage, he does have Custom Side-B 3 Flying Monkey Flip to help give him some vertical recovery. Ironically more than Up-B, and the Up-B gives him more horizontal... odd. This one isn't entirely needed, but it's there.

Little Mac: Now Little Mac needs his original Up-B for killing and platform camping opponents. So instead we replace his Side-B with Custom Side-B 2 Grounding Blow. It gives him some air and pretty much buffs his Side-B on the ground where it barely leaves the ground and you must activate it yourself. Better onstage, and useful off.

Ganondorf: His Up-B wasn't the problem. His horizontal movement needed fixing. Custom Down-B 2 Wizards dropkick fixes that right up.

Duck Hunt: We need more Duck Hunt mains opinion on this, but I think he needs a new up-B for sure. Both Custom Up-Bs work in different ways but overall Custom Up-B 3 Super Duck Jump offers the best fixed horizontal recovery. It does have a windbox, but I think we can let it slide for recovery purposes.

Doc: His recovery already sucked and now he's pitiful. So we have a tradeoff of better recovery with Custom Up-B Super Jump, or useful kill/combo end move vanilla Up-B. Kinda up to personal preference.

Mega Man: Tornado Hold.

Sonic: This is probably the biggest complaint with this mode is Sonic's nerfed recovery. With Custom Side-B 2 Hammer Spin Dash, he gets an initial jump at the start of the attack. If he has his double jump available, he can double jump out of the Hammer Spin jump, effectively giving him a little extra vertical recovery.

I could record some matches with these customs on and send them to @ ZADD so we have some fixes if we want. Now these could be exceptions, these could be banned, or we could enforce the 1 custom per character rule.

 

[Muro]

.

Dunno if you're replying directly to me but I was thinking more along the lines of:

Go into special smash with the SLHG settings. 2 players (but it can be done alone) and one is falcon, 100% damage (can be done through options). Falcon down tilts character X, character X recovers. Then do a showcase of what aerials character X can do by running offstage using an aerial and recovering after. Those 2 tests should be a good showcase I think. Customs off since it's what we're starting with.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Guess nobody likes my tail idea

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Guess nobody likes my tail idea

I tried it out. It's not exactly what this mode is looking for as it gives everybody a hover and better recovery.

 

[Marachii]

Totally not a RHS Rip-off. But hey, Falcon's fun.

Also, I'd love to fight Zadd some day. ' u '

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I tried it out. It's not exactly what this mode is looking for as it gives everybody a hover and better recovery.

You guys don't like an additional movement option that can help extend combos, pressure shields, edge guard better, increase the technical requirement by leaps and bounds, and create a more nuanced zoning and spacing game? Sheesh

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

You guys don't like an additional movement option that can help extend combos, pressure shields, edge guard better, increase the technical requirement by leaps and bounds, and create a more nuanced zoning and spacing game? Sheesh

It makes everybody Peach. Which means there is no more Peach.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

It makes everybody Peach. Which means there is no more Peach.

It gives everybody the same floating mechanic that's SIMILAR to peach's floating mechanic except for key differences: 1) it gradually decreases the characters height. 2) and you can partially use it over and over again until you run out and have to land. Peach's float mechanic is an all or nothing feature that perseveres your height above ground the entire duration.

And even if you give the tail mechanic to all of the characters, it keeps their differences known. I wouldn't the mechanic as mini brawler as I would with greninja.

 

[Muro]

.

I don't doubt it is fun, but it's not what we're looking for, and not what this thread is about. We already settled on the settings.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I don't doubt it is fun, but it's not what we're looking for, and not what this thread is about. We already settled on the settings.

I'm not asking for it to be added into an already solidified list, I'm just asking for experimentation to see if any of you guys like it. I love it and im getting all the requirements today.

 

[ZADD]

Jiggs gets some insane Rest setups in SLHG. Rest also kills 10% earlier i believe with moon launcher. :D

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Jiggs gets some insane Rest setups in SLHG. Rest also kills 10% earlier i believe with moon launcher. :D

Jiggs is a monster.... rest setups and the ability to gimp pretty much anyone offstage. She has some potential for sure.

 

[Muro]

Edit: Some Smooth Lander Frame data a Smash Youtuber by the name of Smash Pit has started posting
Mew2 , Bowser , Fox , Sheik , Falco , Mario , Marth and Lucina , Captain Falcon , Donkey Kong , JigglyPuff , Charizard , Kirby , Mr. G&W

gonna have to add this to the OP somewhere when I have time.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

gonna have to add this to the OP somewhere when I have time.

I just looked at all of them, and they are very helpful! These can help us see who benefits the most by showing us aerial attacks under 10 frames or below.

So I would like to get a discussion going on which characters we think have the potential to be the top tier of this mode. Here is what I think our current top tier characters are. In the following order

1. No surprise to anyone. Sheik is #1 in Vanilla right now (or #2) and best here. She gets combos and kill moves off of grabs, is incredibly fast with minimal lag on aerials, has a projectile that can gimp, a good recovery that kills and warps, and even with all this we still have combos to discover. The only real issue she has is kill power, but forward throw to bouncing fish exists so she's near perfect.

2. Pikachu has a lot of aerial combos with up-airs and nairs. A great approach and recovery tool with quick attack, and gimping ability with his good recovery and his neutral B. Like Sheik, he lacks some kill power. But besides this he is very solid.

3. I don't get how people don't see how ridiculously good Yoshi is. If he still has his double jump he can recover from pretty much anywhere, with armour at that. Up-tilts and up-airs chain into each other and rack up a lot of damage, Up-smash is a good kill move. Aerial mobility is huge for Yoshi and allows him to dash around an opponent with minimal landing lag. Also neutral-B gimps very easily so use that if you can.

4. 20XX is back and kicking. Literally. Nairs have very small landing lag, dair chains into up-smash at higher percents, dash attack leads into up-air, Fox is just teaming with combos now. The only thing Fox lacks is a gimping ability seeing as shine spiking is gone now. I suppose he can go out and hopefully get a bair, but that puts him at risk. Besides this flaw, he is very fast and has a fantastic recovery.

5. Very fast, has a decent recovery, and a very long grab as well. Up throw and down throw lead into a lot of followups. Nair has very small landing lag and chains into other moves like up-air. Knee can be used less sparingly now due to the decreased landing lag, and landing a knee has much better results. Very fast, combos, and kill power Falcon has a lot to offer.

6. ZSS has quite a few tools in her package to offer. A great paralyzing projectile that follows into a grab. Throws then lead into up-smashes, up-airs, or an up-B which kills early. ZSS can be punished easily though, and she is a fast faller. But she has some nice comboes.

7. Mario has very little landing lag so he is quite speedy. Down throws to up-tilts still work at certain percents, and up-airs strings for days. Smash attacks also have low end lag so his kill moves can be used not as sparingly. He can also gimp really well with bairs or a well placed fair.

Feel free to add or take away who you want. Add to the discussion!

Also @ ZADD Loving the video content dude! I'm hopefully gonna get an Elgato capture device soon and start recording my own matches.

 

[DNeon]

Yeah, props to @ ZADD , the videos on your channel continue to be great. That Jiggs video made me feel things man. Like damn some of that was nasty. My only regret was that the thumbnail almost made me think that Stadium had gotten a standard mode, didn't see that there weren't platforms, why can't dreams come true.

 

[ZADD]

2. Pikachu has a lot of aerial combos with up-airs and nairs. A great approach and recovery tool with quick attack, and gimping ability with his good recovery and his neutral B. Like Sheik, he lacks some kill power. But besides this he is very solid.
4. 20XX is back and kicking. Literally. Nairs have very small landing lag, dair chains into up-smash at higher percents, dash attack leads into up-air, Fox is just teaming with combos now. The only thing Fox lacks is a gimping ability seeing as shine spiking is gone now. I suppose he can go out and hopefully get a bair, but that puts him at risk. Besides this flaw, he is very fast and has a fantastic recovery.

I agree with these points, especially Fox. But Pikachu's kill power goes way up once you start applying SHFF F-air > U-smash/F-smash into your neutral game. Pikachu can certainly kill.
On this topic, this one of the hypest sets I've recorded, the whole time it felt like I was playing Melee again... :')

Also, thanks for your support everybody! If you want, feel free to post any of my videos or content to the Smashbros reddit. My goal is to give SLHG as much exposure as possible. I'm very confident Smooth Lander wasn't an accident, Sakurai knew what had made Melee so fast-paced, so he included a less hand-cramp inducing version of L-cancels for us as players to experiment with!
I love Sakurai, he really thinks about the future...
Hopefully soon I'll have a better internet and we can play some matches online!

 

[ME GRIMLOCH]

"These badges will always have the same stats on every wii u" that's actually not true I just got a moon launcher protection badge from the b2 challenge on the recommended equipment list....it has only +15 defense and -20 speed.....I'm not exactly sure why i got these stats on it but yeah. Am i missing something here or?

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

"These badges will always have the same stats on every wii u" that's actually not true I just got a moon launcher protection badge from the b2 challenge on the recommended equipment list....it has only +15 defense and -20 speed.....I'm not exactly sure why i got these stats on it but yeah. Am i missing something here or?

No way.... Can you upload a pic? It should be universal for every system, did you check the other 2 required badges?

 

[ME GRIMLOCH]

No way.... Can you upload a pic? It should be universal for every system, did you check the other 2 required badges?

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkF7PycGw here i made a post with a screenshot. The other 2 were completely normal but then I just unlocked this and its all screwed up. I unlocked the challenge and everything its my only moon launcher protection badge.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkF7PycGw here i made a post with a screenshot. The other 2 were completely normal but then I just unlocked this and its all screwed up. I unlocked the challenge and everything its my only moon launcher protection badge.

Damn... thats some bad luck. I don't know what to tell you other than, maybe try resetting your game and hoping for the best? If that doesn't work you probably have a faulty disc of something.

 

[ME GRIMLOCH]

Damn... thats some bad luck. I don't know what to tell you other than, maybe try resetting your game and hoping for the best? If that doesn't work you probably have a faulty disc of something.

Eh its fine my smash game has always been kinda finicky and weird.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Eh its fine my smash game has always been kinda finicky and weird.

Thats a bummer dude. You're literally the first instance of where the stats don't match up to the equipment on the challenge board.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Tip: both of u guys should pick up big slow characters as secondaries. you guys were not spacing that good and I felt y'all was overly aggro. but decent play tho

 

[Muro]

Eh its fine my smash game has always been kinda finicky and weird.

That's really crazy. I'd check it again, it's not possible that it's happening only to you (or could it be a patch thing? that'd suck). Another possibility is that you had too many pieces of equipment and that one was deleted? I dunno man. In any case you could be playing SLHG in 20 min from a fresh restart. But I understand it sucks to lose your stuff.

 

[ZADD]

Tip: both of u guys should pick up big slow characters as secondaries. you guys were not spacing that good and I felt y'all was overly aggro. but decent play tho

It's impossible to be 100% accurate when your opponent is actively trying NOT to get hit. DI, techs, and air/ground dodges turn precision into a true art. SLHG has a high skill/tech ceiling for sure, I've only had a few months with it I still need a lot more practice to make it look as good as it could.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

It's impossible to be 100% accurate when your opponent is actively trying NOT to get hit. DI, techs, and air/ground dodges turn precision into a true art. SLHG has a high skill/tech ceiling for sure, I've only had a few months with it I still need a lot more practice to make it look as good as it could.

that's what reading is for
but seriously, you guys just need to have some big slow characters as secondaries to round up your gameplay. it will really really help make you guys way more solid.

 

[ZADD]

that's what reading is for
but seriously, you guys just need to have some big slow characters as secondaries to round up your gameplay. it will really really help make you guys way more solid.

No offense, but I'm pretty sure practice does more than just switching your main. Fox isn't my main, most of the stuff in this set came from adapting to playing in the set itself. I hate to say it but reads are FAR less clutch in SLHG than in regular Sm4sh. Vanilla has lots of lag, so being chaotic is easily punishable. However, throwing out quick aerials that are very hard to punish, that if connected can combo into longer strings, is the core benefit of using Smooth Lander. Slower characters would be much worse for your points, poor spacing and whiffed aggression would get punished so much harder if I played Ganondorf... No one is 100% perfect, especially when someone is trying and succeeding at killing you, you need to adapt your playstyle if you want to be good!

 

[Baby_Sneak]

No offense, but I'm pretty sure practice does more than just switching your main. Fox isn't my main, most of the stuff in this set came from adapting to playing in the set itself. I hate to say it but reads are FAR less clutch in SLHG than in regular Sm4sh. Vanilla has lots of lag, so being chaotic is easily punishable. However, throwing out quick aerials that are very hard to punish, that if connected can combo into longer strings, is the core benefit of using Smooth Lander. Slower characters would be much worse for your points, poor spacing and whiffed aggression would get punished so much harder if I played Ganondorf... No one is 100% perfect, especially when someone is trying and succeeding at killing you, you need to adapt your playstyle if you want to be good!

My point is made. Plus, if you're just throwing out quick aerials with no spacing, be prepared to get grabbed, Fsmashed, Dsmash, and any other forms of punishment. Spacing becomes way more important in SLHG now since you're going to get punished way harder for a mistake. Also, Adapting your playstyle is exactly is what's going to happen if you picked up some secondaries that require some spacing and solid play, but I won't harp on it if you don't want to use the tip(per lolgetit?).

 

[ZADD]

your playstyle is exactly is what's going to happen if you picked up some secondaries that require some spacing and solid play, but I won't harp on it if you don't want to use the tip(per lolgetit?).

If your tip is to switch my main, I already told you I don't know how to play Fox (he's not my style), I have quite a few characters I play with on my channel. I main Peach and Doc in SLHG mostly, but If you want to send me some videos of your perfect Fox spacing I'd be happy to upload them.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

If your tip is to switch my main, I already told you I don't know how to play Fox (he's not my style), I have quite a few characters I play with on my channel. I main Peach and Doc in SLHG mostly, but If you want to send me some videos of your perfect Fox spacing I'd be happy to upload them.

That's not my tip. My tip is to grab a pocket or secondary that requires solid spacing and fundamentals.

 

[ZADD]

That's not my tip. My tip is to grab a pocket or secondary that requires solid spacing and fundamentals.

ok? Lol ill be sure to do that, pretty vague. Once again if you think your play is superior I'd love for you to show it! The point of my videos are to give exposure to SLHG as a competitive equipment setup, I'm more concerned with SLHG as a whole than my own tech.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

ok? Lol ill be sure to do that, pretty vague. Once again if you think your play is superior I'd love for you to show it! The point of my videos are to give exposure to SLHG as a competitive equipment setup, I'm more concerned with SLHG as a whole than my own tech.

oh I'm dookie ball right now cuz I haven't been able to use all of the equipment. moon launcher badge is the only one i'm missing and i think i ran out of hammers (i need to hit 50,000 blocks to get it). but, since you're giving exposure like that, i just want to help make it look better by giving tips on what you can work on.
oh and i'm not trying to be mean or anything, i was really straight-forward i guess, im sorry if i was rude or anything.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

I should be getting a game capture next week, so I'll be uploading some matches and possibly streaming as well. Anything to get this mode more exposure!

 

[ZADD]

i just want to help make it look better by giving tips on what you can work on.

Don't worry I'm not offended, I just want to make sure you know that playing SLHG is much more intensive than playing Vanilla. The game becomes a lot more about input-precision, and less about reads/punishes. Fast-falls need perfect timing, hitstun needs to actually be capitalized on, and Pivots need to be smooth. Perfect inputs are way more rewarding, and the number of inputs per second goes way up if you play characters like Fox or Pikachu.

Even though fundamentals transfer over from Vanilla Sm4sh, most muscle memory pretty much goes out the window. Some combos from Vanilla are still there, but my point is that there are still multiple YEARS-WORTH of experimentation/investigation left in SLHG, no one has any idea what it could show at peak skill levels, especially this early. It would take individuals practicing for months, IF NOT years to show what SLHG is really capable of, I'm by no means perfect.

SLHG's skill ceiling is definitely on par with Melee or Project M. Tech ceiling is slightly below I believe, and that's just because L-cancel no longer requires an input. Applying pivot-cancels consistently is about the difficulty of wavedashes, without much abusability. A huge tech that gained viability is Fast-falling multi-hit aerials. For example, Meta-Knight can B-air > FF > F-Smash and it's totally badass.

 

[Marachii]

Tech ceiling is slightly below I believe, and that's just because L-cancel no longer requires an input.

I'm a long time competitive smash player, and one thing I always hated was L canceling. I didn't mind doing it, but the fact that you HAVE to do it every aerial adds an artificial level of difficulty. It doesn't take much thought, consideration or situational awareness to decide whether to L Cancel or not.

But, Melee/64/PM rant aside, I actually rather like this mode. I've been expanding and trying unorthodox characters like Donkey Kong, Samus, all the Mii crew and Little Mac, and it feels like nearly everyone has their own special place in this mode, rather than just being trash vs not being trash. (Little Mac can actually do more stuff on stage, even kill at like 40% off a down tilt).

 

[ZADD]

one thing I always hated was L canceling. I didn't mind doing it, but the fact that you HAVE to do it every aerial adds an artificial level of difficulty.

Haha yea, no kidding I'm pretty sick of hand-cramps too.

I wanted to bring up a few characters that, after some review, have serious tournament viability. Of course this is all my opinion.

• This girl... She gets early % grab combos with D-throw > F-tilt, N-air float cancels into itself, and her turnips can make recovery a nightmare. If you use float to hold your turnip, while throwing out aerials to space, you can easily deal with most rush-down characters. Crouch-cancels are kind of a thing because of the gravity, but it's nowhere near the magnitude of Melee, so D-smash is pretty safe and deals a ton of reliable %. I would pay $$$ to see Armada try SLHG.

• SLHG has a really cool effect on TLink. His aerials used to be somewhat awkward, and not really rewarding on hit with the exception of F-air. Now, N-air and B-air are unbelievably good for neutral game, and you can follow aerials immediately with a Short-hop Arrow. His U-tilt might be the most useful U-tilt in all of SLHG, it's very hard to escape for fast-fallers, and it combos into U-air for a kill at higher %'s. Overall, he has very little lag, and an unbelievable pressure game almost like Melee Falco with his Laser followups.

• This character scares me. He may not have many follow-up options, but he certainly makes up for it in kill potential. All of his hits from D-tilt to U-smash do ridiculous knockback, and N-air sets up pretty nicely for a B-air (B-air kills so damn early :O) If you space him right, you could eliminate the "top tiers" most definitely.

• I've talked about Meta-Knight before, but I want to emphasize that he benefits more from SLHG than anyone else in the roster. His landing lag is severely less punishable, and he can juggle opponents 0-Death from just a grab. He has nothing that made him broken in Brawl, but also nothing that made him weak in Sm4sh, a perfect blend! If SLHG ever became competitive, I'd expect to see plenty of Meta-Knights.