SmashEurope Smash 4 Stock Count Poll

With several early 2016 majors on the horizon in both the US and Europe, the stock count in Smash 4 has once again become subject to debate. In an effort to gather more data on the various perspectives, SmashEurope has launched a global poll on the subject. Below you will find an excerpt of the accompanying article. All community members are encouraged to participate in this poll, as the results could have consequences for the way events are run in the future. As it stands, the US and Japan mostly run 2 stocks, while some US regions and Europe prefer to run 3 stocks.​

The stock count in Smash Bros. for Wii U has seen a global split between Europe and the US, as well as Japan, since very early in the game’s lifespan. Most American nationals since APEX 2015 have opted for 2 stocks, which lead many US regions to follow suit in preparation for these events. In Europe 3 stocks has been the norm since the very start as a result of various TOs polling their local community and the settings working out well with Brawl, the game’s direct predecessor. This difference in philosophy has recently become more relevant with events such as Genesis 3 and BEAST 6 hoping to attract overseas attendance.

We are now one year into the game and a census regarding the current state of the game seems appropriate. It is in the interest of the global scene to find out which demographic prefers which setting, as we are dealing with several groups relevant to the growth and survival of the game. For our purposes, we differentiate between the preferences of players, viewers and TOs. Although we will shed light on our own perspective in the remainder of the article, we want to stress that we are approaching this subject with an open mind and could very well be proven wrong about our prior assumptions.

The poll can be found here. The Google Doc was created by Tom Scott (G~P). You can respond anonymously, but all questions other than your (nick)name are mandatory in order for us to gain the best possible insight into the desires of the community at large. The poll closes within one week (on December 24th). We eagerly await your responses!

For the perspective of the initiators, you can view the full article over on SmashEurope. For a history lesson on stock counts in the competitive Smash Bros. scene, check out the overview by SmashCapps.

 

2 stock Bo3 is absolutely horrible. I don't understand how anyone likes it. It hardly determines any skill. ZeRo's Sheik lost to Seagull Joe's Sonic because of that, which was cool, but was also completely bull**** as he probably would have won if it was either 2 stock Bo5, or 3 stock Bo3.

 

"2 stocks is a sprint while 3 stocks is a marathon." Lol ok

Yeah just ignore everything else you said lol ok

 

2 stock Bo3 is absolutely horrible. I don't understand how anyone likes it. It hardly determines any skill. ZeRo's Sheik lost to Seagull Joe's Sonic because of that, which was cool, but was also completely bull**** as he probably would have won if it was either 2 stock Bo5, or 3 stock Bo3.

Now this argument I never understood. How exactly does 3 stock take more skill than 2 stock? Surely if someone were able to beat another in 2 stock, they could it in 3, and vice versa. If someone SD's or is unable to adapt in time, is that not a fault of their own skill?

 

Now this argument I never understood. How exactly does 3 stock take more skill than 2 stock? Surely if someone were able to beat another in 2 stock, they could it in 3, and vice versa. If someone SD's or is unable to adapt in time, is that not a fault of their own skill?

You're not entirely wrong. In most instances the outcome of the matches will be similar, in my opinion. However, SD's are just a thing that happens occasionally, and it's no different from any other kind of technical flub, and it's not the only one that a single stock hinges on.

Try and look at it this way: If melee ran 3stocks instead, how different would many of the most famous sets ever be, considering that usually at some point someone SD's? with less stocks, SD's become much more damaging to someones chances of winning, and thats one of the main arguments for not running 2stocks

 

I feel with the nerfs to shields and players getting better 3 stocks 7 min is perfectly doable.

Granted I'm no pro player but after reading how people have handled 3 stocks like Xyro77 , being strict and precise. I think it's time to upgrade to 3.

I've been to a bunch of tournies in my area and have started going to Boston scenes lately too. (Just to clarify)

Note: I have been running 3 stock events since the day the game came out. In general, I run my events faster and with bigger turnout than most 2 stock events here in the states.

I fully believe that a focus on streaming (spoilers: don't stream top 16, it slows EVERYTHING DOWN) ad poor TOing slows down events the most.

 

Note: I have been running 3 stock events since the day the game came out. In general, I run my events faster and with bigger turnout than most 2 stock events here in the states.

I fully believe that a focus on streaming (spoilers: don't stream top 16, it slows EVERYTHING DOWN) ad poor TOing slows down events the most.

Same for the most part. We livestream top 8 but beyond that we just put on whatever seems like it's going to be sick.

 

Guys. We should obviously just have timed matches instead.
No stocks = no problems.

 

Guys. We should obviously just have timed matches instead.
No stocks = no problems.

I strongly disagree, I think that we should have stamina.

 

I strongly disagree, I think that we should have stamina.

Would you settle for coin matches then?

 

2stocks bo5 >3stocks Bo3.

You've got the same ammount of stocks, but each stock has less impact, in the bo5 format compared to 3stock bo3 and the game gets more strategic and less likely to get cheesed(both by rage, and counterpicks).

2 stocks are generally ran with a 6min timer

3stocks 8min for some reason allows less then 3 min per stock, meaning timeouts is easier to achieve, and is also much less watchable imo(aka i only watch american streams, even though they are streamed at way worse times then european ones for me). Especially when it comes to late tournament sets.

Oh, and I won't vote, mainly because the bias in the article presenting the poll.

 

2 stock Bo3 is absolutely horrible. I don't understand how anyone likes it. It hardly determines any skill. ZeRo's Sheik lost to Seagull Joe's Sonic because of that, which was cool, but was also completely bull**** as he probably would have won if it was either 2 stock Bo5, or 3 stock Bo3.

Stay mad scrub.

 

Stay mad scrub.

...
It took me a while to realise that you were Seagull Joe

I hail you

 

Wow, someone push your buttons? That's like saying that you can't comment on the new DBZ film if you're not a fan of the franchise. That came off as very entitled.

Anyway, experience nonwithstanding, I personally prefer 2 stocks. Do you guys really want to see Sonic, Pac Man (Epic tho) and Rosalina in 3 stock format? You're going to be seeing wayyyyy more timeouts if you do that unless the timer is brought to 8 minutes like Smashladder and even then I've timed out a bunch of my opponents while playing as Sheik. Her needle game is really good, which makes it easy once you have the lead. When you're winning, it's your opponent's turn to charge in and that's tough against a top tier fighter.

NO, that's not it at all. If you've never experienced either stock count in an actual tournament. You have no right to be voting on this.

 

It's not a question of bo3 vs bo5, events under both settings will have the great majority of their sets played out as bo3 anyway. It was only mentioned because several TOs have remarked they can do less bo5 with 3 stocks than they perhaps would like, or at least less than a game like Melee at similar events. That's the extent to which it takes more time, these events still finish and can do bo5 for the most important sets. The biggest 2 stocks events have actually run notoriously little bo5 and the metagame is still speeding up. One also has to wonder if an entire event has to get one stock less per game just to expand bo5 from top 8 to top 16.

The onus of proof should lie with the setting that gives players less bang for their buck and after a year of this game being out, nothing has been done to justify it. There is bias in the article because it would be dishonest to hide or lie about the preference of the people spearheading this, not to mention all research starts with a theory or assumption that may or may not be debunked. There is no bias in the poll itself other than that it is less accessible to non-English speaking countries (which are often European and thus likely to use 3 stocks, ironically). As you will see in the follow-up, the pool of people voting is incredibly diverse and we are open to being convinced of other beliefs and test theories that have been spread around. I don't expect the answers to be straightforward considering what we can filter for.

 

I'm pretty much fine with 2 or 3 stocks, but in my opinion, if a match is best of 3, then do 2 stocks, but if a match is best of 3, then do 3 stocks.

 

3 stock bo5 is way too long

It is when you're a scrub or a "Novice" level smasher to be more appropriate. lol

 

It is when you're a scrub or a "Novice" level smasher to be more appropriate. lol

Why can't it be 2 stocks until the top 8 of the tournament where it'd switch to 3 stocks?

 

Filled out the poll, but some of the question didn'the reflect some of how I felt... I play PM, Melee, and Smash 4, but I would 100% enter Brawl events if my scene had any... and while I listed PM as my favorite, thay'a really just the one where I tend to win money in my local scene... I usually just don't answer that question because trying to pick a favorite feels almost wrong somehow...

 

I love how a ton of people will be voting and making comments even tho most of them have never gone to a real tournament and almost none of them is a high level player nor a top TO. My advice: don't participate in anything regarding the rules of Smash unless you are *the *aforementioned types of people.

Well...
I agree and disagree. The majority of the Smash community (MYSELF INCLUDED) is comprised of players that don't go to tournaments/never get out of pools. People like myself do have opinions, but the opinions of TO's/top players should have more weight.
...That's why they ask for your role in the community/your name.

 

Im new... To smashboards and as usual, don't understand anything

 

Well...
I agree and disagree. The majority of the Smash community (MYSELF INCLUDED) is comprised of players that don't go to tournaments/never get out of pools. People like myself do have opinions, but the opinions of TO's/top players should have more weight.
...That's why they ask for your role in the community/your name.

This man gets it, pretty much

That said, we've put all these parameters in, and it seems people feel the same way for the most part ANYWAY, ahaha

 

2 stocks put you at such a disadvantage when it comes to adapting because you only have 1 stock to learn from your mistake of losing your first stock. There is no 'Comeback' stock. This is why in smash 4, getting the first stock off of your opponent is so crucial as your opponent hasn't got the room to use a stock to learn something game changing about their opponent mid match.
Stock 1 = get a feel for your opponent's movements and habbits...
Stock 2 = learn why you lost stock 1 and get a grip of your opponent's kill options...
Stock 3 = Adapt and bring it all back. The Comeback stock.

 

2 stocks put you at such a disadvantage when it comes to adapting because you only have 1 stock to learn from your mistake of losing your first stock. There is no 'Comeback' stock. This is why in smash 4, getting the first stock off of your opponent is so crucial as your opponent hasn't got the room to use a stock to learn something game changing about their opponent mid match.
Stock 1 = get a feel for your opponent's movements and habbits...
Stock 2 = learn why you lost stock 1 and get a grip of your opponent's kill options...
Stock 3 = Adapt and bring it all back. The Comeback stock.

Maybe you should learn to adapt faster. You should be getting a feel for your opponent in the first 30 seconds of the match, it doesn't take an entire stock to do that. Zero can do it, everybody else should try to emulate him. Personally, I hate 3-stock because the games take forever and I get bored playing against campy players who refuse to approach despite being behind. 3-stock is too boring and unenjoyable, anyone who wants 3-stock can go back to brawl, plus I'm sick of smashladder being 3-stock as well, it's ridiculous.

 

Smash Ladder isn't 3 stock anymore, they changed it.
Also, 2 stock works better in Brawl than in Sm4sh due to it being a slower paced game.

 

It just boggles the mind when people say that 3-stock matches take forever, and yet 2-stock matches can end too quickly.

If players are so concerned about the time, you could always reduce the time limit to 5 minutes for 3-stock matches.

 

It just boggles the mind when people say that 3-stock matches take forever, and yet 2-stock matches can end too quickly.

If players are so concerned about the time, you could always reduce the time limit to 5 minutes for 3-stock matches.

3stock 5min wouldnt work, I'm afraid That would lead to every remotely campy character purposefully trying to run the timer every game. The timer should be short enough to stop games lasting a lifetime, but long enough to make the concept of going for the timeout a difficult one to aim for from the get go. 8 minutes is typically the sweetspot for this.

 

9 Minutes let's go (srsly)

 

Not that I really prefer one over the other, but it seems like a lot of the people that want it to be 3 stocks feel that way as a spectator, and not as an actual player...

I enjoy watching high level matches as much as the next guy, but you have to think beyond just "2 stocks is too short and I want to see more".

 

I enjoy both but I'm used to 2 stocks but I do enjoy 3 stocks I also use 7 mins for 2 stocks as I use Japan rule sets

 

Maybe you should learn to adapt faster. You should be getting a feel for your opponent in the first 30 seconds of the match, it doesn't take an entire stock to do that. Zero can do it, everybody else should try to emulate him. Personally, I hate 3-stock because the games take forever and I get bored playing against campy players who refuse to approach despite being behind. 3-stock is too boring and unenjoyable, anyone who wants 3-stock can go back to brawl, plus I'm sick of smashladder being 3-stock as well, it's ridiculous.

Wait so we have to adapt to two stocks but you don't/shouldn't adapt to 3?

Lol get out.

 

This man gets it, pretty much

Aw thanks m8

 

Beast 6 is now confirmed to have 3 Stocks

 

It is when you're a scrub or a "Novice" level smasher to be more appropriate. lol

I'm sure your winning tournaments left and right....

Foh