Smashchu's Roster Analysis

[Swamp Sensei]

Wait a minute.

Buirac.

You think R.O.B. was Japan exclusive peripheral?

Dude. He was released in the states and Europe. Do some research if you're not sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.O.B.

 

[buirac]

1st: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/6962/super-smash-bros-brawl/. You recognized R.O.B. wasn't put there for his popularity. Now you are saying it was a "nice throwback", I guess he was for the Nintendo employees (the ones that are still alive, I mean, it's been like 100 years since then). But it wasn't nice for the mass (79% nonjapanese). Lucas wasn't either, because of similar reasons (I repeat, give me proof of its requests).

2nd: Your wrong concepts about Smash and about my bias.

4th: I guess I should have put "nonsense"*, since I wanted to stress the fact that something you believe that is nonsense is the only rational explanation you could give for something.

5th: As I said I'm Catalan, it's a rigid concept here.

 

[buirac]

Wait a minute.

Buirac.

You think R.O.B. was Japan exclusive peripheral?

Dude. He was released in the states and Europe. Do some research if you're not sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.O.B.

I've revised it. It was only Japan and USA. It makes a small difference; short lifespan, not welknown, noncannonic moveset, etc.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

1st: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/6962/super-smash-bros-brawl/. You recognized R.O.B. wasn't put there for his popularity. Now you are saying it was a "nice throwback", I guess he was for the Nintendo employees (the ones that are still alive, I mean, it's been like 100 years since then). But it wasn't nice for the mass (79% nonjapanese). Lucas wasn't either, because of similar reasons (I repeat, give me proof of its requests). When did I say that R.O.B. was added for popularity? I just said he was well recieved. Don't put words in my mouth.

So G&W and IC were added for the same reason. A throwback. If you're mad about R.O.B. because of that than you should be mad at those two for the same reason. Lucas WAS requested. Even here! Just look at the pre-brawl forums of any site and you will see that.

2nd: Your wrong concepts about Smash and about my bias. But you do have a bias.

4th: I guess I should have put "nonsense"*, since I wanted to stress the fact that something you believe that is nonsense is the only rational explanation you could give for something. Lol?

I've revised it. It was only Japan and USA. It makes a small difference; short lifespan, not welknown, noncannonic moveset, etc.

R.O.B. was worldwide. Try again.

Besides, you think the majority of characters in smash are well known? You'd be hard pressed to find an average dude who knew someone other than Mario, DK, Zelda, Pokemon and Third Party characters.

And Falcon, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Ness, Ice Climbers, Pikachu, etc. all had noncannoical movesets. Noncannical movesets are not bad or new in the slightest.

 

[Shorts]

I've been wanting to read this for so long, and you posted on my birthday. Thanks for the gift ;P Alright, here we go

# 2: The character must be unique.

The character should have abilities and traits that only they can do. People will say “But that's not true at all. Look at Lucas. Look at Wolf.” While those two have a lot in common to other characters, they also look and act different, which is part about being unique. They also have some abilities the other can't do, so while their special moves are similar, their other attacks are not (and for good reason). A good example of a character that violates this is Ninten. He is really just Ness and there is nothing that sets him apart. Dark Pit is another example. And as I said before, looks matter too. Moves are not the only thing that is taken into account here. Generally, they should stand out from the rest of the cast.

See, I don't quite see the difference between the Wolf and Lucas that we got, and the conceptual clones that Dark Pit and Ninten could be. They, I'm sure, would be created in a slightly different style than their counterparts. Is this just their physical appearance holding them back? (Besides the fact that Dark Pit is like, nothing) What does Wolf, Falco (Melee), Young Link (Melee), Toon Link and Lucas have going for them that makes them "more unique"? I mean Falco is a bird head on Fox's body, with stat changes in Melee, truthfully.

# 3: The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.

Kraid is a good example, or even Doshin the Giant. They are huge characters.

Ridley is a good example as well. Does his fluctuating size help his case or something?

Sacred Cow #2: Only current series matter

What do you think of the notion that

Only current characters matter

I have a real hard time defending Samurai Goroh, Krystal, and Dixie Kong over at Wiichat because they all have this mentality. There's a "sales guru" over there I would love for you to meet. He's, ugh. And this is a little different from Jiggs and Shiek, because THEY WERE CURRENT when they were included. Goroh and Dixie (In terms of non-spin off titles) have been out of commission for a long while, and Krystal seven years.

However, it has been a long running series and has a lot of fans. In a lot of ways, Fire Emblem's fame pushed Marth. I guess I'll do this now:

So it wouldn't suprise you that FE:A was possibly going to be the last game in the series for a long long while if it didn't sell well?

The clones are will liked as people even want Dr. Mario to return.

I would like to note that he does do well on my polls, better than Pichu or YL. Pichu doesn't do well, at all.

Okay, now for a break.

 

[buirac]

1st: You never said it was for popularity. I was building a context were I could state that your "nice throwback" only existed for Nintendo employees. Game was a welknown* throwback, IC was an interesting throwback (for being two). R.O.B. was a self-nostalgic throwback. Lucas was not as requested as way more popular characters. Besides, it added a half clone and an unnecessary representative from a dead non-popular saga. Lucas might have been anticipated, as everyone does today with Little Mac, but he was not requested enough.

2nd: Everyone has bias. I acknowledge the fact and justify them.

R.O.B.'s internationality: I've looked for it (even in the wiki), no European references.

About noncannonical moveset: Characters are not picked for their potentially licit moveset, but a cannonical one is always priorized to a noncannonical one. That means that cannonical moveset is better and noncannonical moveset is worse. I only wanted to remark this fact.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Give me proof of that. By the way, Lucas was my first main. After that, I realized how stupid its inclusion was.

Ask anyone who was anywhere pre-Brawl. I didn't keep records of who was popular because I didn't care, but I know for a fact that Lucas, Ike, Lucario, Sonic, and Wolf were all highly-requested. Anyone who was here in the pre-Brawl days will corroborate that. Like Swampasaur has been doing. Or ask ChronoBound!

So you stopped playing a character you were good with because you up and decided he didn't belong? Good for you.

Subjective. You simply can't compare the popularity between an international character and a Japanese one.

Well, R.O.B. has never been Japan-only. Neither has Game and Watch. So that has no bearing whatsoever and I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Smash Bros was designed to unify Nintendo franchises in a death battle. When you play a character you want to experience some of its specifical franchise. This is nothing new to you, since your mains are Links, whose attacks are the most representative of their world. I wanted to learn more of Nintendo worlds thanks to cannonic habilities in Smash, cannonic habilities made me the fan I am. This is not coincidence.

That's great for you. Except that a good chunk of characters' moves are made up entirely. Before Smash 64 Fox had never set foot outside an Arwing, so his moveset was made up. Captain Falcon does nothing but drive a car, so where the hell did his moveset come from? I've never seen Luigi fire himself horizontally in any of the Mario games I've played, and his fireballs don't actually act any differently (nor are they green!) in-game. Sheik had no moves in OoT, nor did Zelda. Ganondorf never punched me or kicked me in Ocarina; I distinctly remember him using lightning and dark magic, or becoming a massive beast and attacking me with big swords. To the best of my knowledge, all Olimar can do is throw things and blow a whistle in Pikmin. Ness never used PK Fire, PK Thunder, or PSI Magnet. All the Ice Climbers can do is jump and club oddly-shaped sheep. More moves are made up in Smash Bros. than canonical.

The only thing I wanted to remark at first was that R.O.B. inclusion was not subject to any law or pattern, he got in the roster in the most arbitrary way. Then people saw I didn't like the fact and I had to justify my dislike.

Of course it is. He's important to Nintendo's history, arguably more so than any other character in Nintendo's entire library, so his inclusion is perfectly justified.

EDIT

1st: You never said it was for popularity. I was building a context were I could state that your "nice throwback" only existed for Nintendo employees. Game was a welknown* throwback, IC was an interesting throwback (for being two). R.O.B. was a self-nostalgic throwback.

Riiiiight, except he was still around and still far more well-known than G&W was at the time of his inclusion in Melee.

Lucas was not as requested as way more popular characters. Besides, it added a half clone and an unnecessary representative from a dead non-popular saga. Lucas might have been anticipated, as everyone does today with Little Mac, but he was not requested enough.

First of all, as we keep telling you, he was requested more than expected. Just like Ike and several others.

Secondly, they had vaguely similar B moves and entirely different A moves. Plus Lucas has a tether and an extended grab. The closest thing we have to a clone is Toon Link, and Lucas is nowhere near that similar to Ness.

And thirdly, Mother 3, Lucas's game, came out in 2006. Hardly a dead series. And for god's sake, Ice Climbers and Pit both came from much longer gaps.


And for the future, please quote my posts rather than scribbling on them in red; the red text looks horrendous on my browser.

 

[buirac]

Ask anyone who was anywhere pre-Brawl. I didn't keep records of who was popular because I didn't care, but I know for a fact that Lucas, Ike, Lucario, Sonic, and Wolf were all highly-requested. Anyone who was here in the pre-Brawl days will corroborate that. Like Swampasaur has been doing. Or ask ChronoBound! The fact that you and swamp believe Lucas and Wolf were requested is easily explainable: you've come to dislike my way of thinking and do need to discredit everything I say. I only can add I've got a vivid memory of some priorities to Lucas such as Geno, Bomberman or even Floro Piranha. Just look at Brawl's fake rosters, they even included Ichigo and Goku, but no Earthbound, we had enough.

So you stopped playing a character you were good with because you up and decided he didn't belong? Good for you. It's more like not enough effort was put in Brawl's balance and Lucas sucked too much.



Well, R.O.B. has never been Japan-only. Neither has Game and Watch. So that has no bearing whatsoever and I'm not sure what you're getting at. I must acknowledge my mistake there. R.O.B sold around two milions in all the world. Game and Watch 40.



That's great for you. Except that a good chunk of characters' moves are made up entirely. Before Smash 64 Fox had never set foot outside an Arwing, so his moveset was made up. Captain Falcon does nothing but drive a car, so where the hell did his moveset come from? I've never seen Luigi fire himself horizontally in any of the Mario games I've played, and his fireballs don't actually act any differently (nor are they green!) in-game. Sheik had no moves in OoT, nor did Zelda. Ganondorf never punched me or kicked me in Ocarina; I distinctly remember him using lightning and dark magic, or becoming a massive beast and attacking me with big swords. To the best of my knowledge, all Olimar can do is throw things and blow a whistle in Pikmin. Ness never used PK Fire, PK Thunder, or PSI Magnet. All the Ice Climbers can do is jump and club oddly-shaped sheep. More moves are made up in Smash Bros. than canonical. So what? Smash was about unifying. Some factors helped in that regard, some weren't as good or original. If every moveset in Smash was like Fox the game wouldn't have succeed like it has.


Of course it is. He's important to Nintendo's history, arguably more so than any other character in Nintendo's entire library, so his inclusion is perfectly justified. R.O.B. Is important to Nintendo employees, not to the fanbase (400.000 players in Japan). So his inclusion is perfectly unjustified for me and the 99.99% of the Brawl consumers who didn't know him.



And for the future, please quote my posts rather than scribbling on them in red; the red text looks horrendous on my browser. Do you prefer blue? I'm not good with this forum stuff

 

[Swamp Sensei]

1st: You never said it was for popularity. I was building a context were I could state that your "nice throwback" only existed for Nintendo employees. Game was a welknown* throwback, IC was an interesting throwback (for being two). R.O.B. was a self-nostalgic throwback. Lucas was not as requested as way more popular characters. Besides, it added a half clone and an unnecessary representative from a dead non-popular saga. Lucas might have been anticipated, as everyone does today with Little Mac, but he was not requested enough.
G&W was not a welknown throwback. He had no identity until Melee. If R.O.B. is a self-nostalgic throwback, G&W was too. You have been evading that point this while arguement. Lucas WAS requested quite a bit, ESPECIALLY IN JAPAN!!! How many times do I have to say that?

And you just said Mother was unpopular? You don't know much about Mother do you?

2nd: Everyone has bias. I acknowledge the fact and justify them. Your justifications are questionable.

R.O.B.'s internationality: I've looked for it (even in the wiki), no European references.

• JP July 26, 1985

• NA October 18, 1985

• EU September 1, 1986

Look harder.

About noncannonical moveset: Characters are not picked for their potentially licit moveset, but a cannonical one is always priorized to a noncannonical one. That means that cannonical moveset is better and noncannonical moveset is worse. I only wanted to remark this fact.

Falcon must be the worst character ever.

You are ignoring facts.
You are making terrible generalizations (99.9% My ass. People knew who R.O.B. was. It was just that no one expected him.)
You have got to be trolling. People can't be this stupid.

 

[AnOkayDM]

The fact that you and swamp believe Lucas and Wolf were requested is easily explainable: you've come to dislike my way of thinking and do need to discredit everything I say. I only can add I've got a vivid memory of some priorities to Lucas such as Geno, Bomberman or even Floro Piranha. Just look at Brawl's fake rosters, they even included Ichigo and Goku, but no Earthbound, we had enough.

Yep, you got me, I'm just being vindictive. Find me some proof that Lucas WASN'T requested. I know he was though, so good luck with that.

So what? Smash was about unifying. Some factors helped in that regard, some weren't as good or original. If every moveset in Smash was like Fox the game wouldn't have succeed like it has.

My point is that attempting the moveset potential argument is stupid and immediately invalidates your argument. R.O.B. doesn't have canon moves because he's never fought before.

R.O.B. Is important to Nintendo employees, not to the fanbase (400.000 players in Japan). So his inclusion is perfectly unjustified for me and the 99.99% of the Brawl consumers who didn't know him.

And by the time Melee came around, the Ice Climbers were still incredibly fresh in people's minds, right? They'd been in a lot of recent games and people were definitely clamoring for their inclusion.

This argument of yours is invalid. I don't know how many times I have to say this: he's an important piece of Nintendo's history.

Do you prefer blue? I'm not good with this forum stuff

I'd still prefer you to quote, but if you insist on writing on my posts, this is fine.

And because I edited it in last time and you probably didn't see while replying:

1st: You never said it was for popularity. I was building a context were I could state that your "nice throwback" only existed for Nintendo employees. Game was a welknown* throwback, IC was an interesting throwback (for being two). R.O.B. was a self-nostalgic throwback.

Riiiiight, except he was still around and still far more well-known than G&W was at the time of his inclusion in Melee.

Lucas was not as requested as way more popular characters. Besides, it added a half clone and an unnecessary representative from a dead non-popular saga. Lucas might have been anticipated, as everyone does today with Little Mac, but he was not requested enough.

First of all, as we keep telling you, he was requested more than expected. Just like Ike and several others.

Secondly, they had vaguely similar B moves and entirely different A moves. Plus Lucas has a tether and an extended grab. The closest thing we have to a clone is Toon Link, and Lucas is nowhere near that similar to Ness.

And thirdly, Mother 3, Lucas's game, came out in 2006. Hardly a dead series. And for god's sake, Ice Climbers and Pit both came from much longer gaps.

EDIT:

G&W was not a welknown throwback. He had no identity until Melee. If R.O.B. is a self-nostalgic throwback, G&W was too. You have been evading that point this while arguement. Lucas WAS requested quite a bit, ESPECIALLY IN JAPAN!!! How many times do I have to say that?

This.
This.
All of this.
ALL OF IT

And you just said Mother was unpopular? You don't know much about Mother do you?

Oh and also this.

 

[buirac]

You are ignoring facts.
You are making terrible generalizations (99.9% My ***. People knew who R.O.B. was. It was just that no one expected him.)
You have got to be trolling. People can't be this stupid.

Fact 1: 40 million G&W were sold over the world while only 1'3 Gyromites did (I don't have information for StackUp, but I'm sure they aren't getting to 3 million). http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_&_Watch / http://www.vgchartz.com/game/6285/gyromite/

Fact 2: "Lucas was requested quite a bit", which is lesser than ****king Tails request (who at least appeared in more than one game)

Fact 3: Mother is not as popular as Tails, Golden Sun nor other priorities. The third entry (Lucas one) is developed by Brawl creators.

Fact 4: The worst character ever is Ganondorf.

Fact 5: "99'9%" is a way to express he was not much wellknown, since "his" games sold probably less than 3 milion.

Fact 6: You say my justifications are questionable, but you've just called me stupid. Insulting is the most questionable way to discredit the bearer of the message's message.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Fact 1: 40 million G&W were sold over the world while only 1'3 Gyromites did (I don't have information for StackUp, but I'm sure they aren't getting to 3 million). http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_&_Watch / http://www.vgchartz.com/game/6285/gyromite/ Your point? G&W was technically an entire console! R.O.B. was a peripheral for the NES. Regardless, he made kids interested in gaming again.

Fact 2: "Lucas was requested quite a bit", which is lesser than ****king Tails request (who at least appeared in more than one game) Your point? Tails is 3rd party. You can't quite compare the two.

Fact 3: Mother is not as popular as Tails, Golden Sun nor other priorities. The third entry (Lucas one) is developed by Brawl creators. As was Earthbound and Mother 1. Null point. Mother is more popular than Golden Sun though. Tails is again third party. You can't really compare the two.

Fact 4: The worst character ever is Ganondorf. Dat flame choke man!

Fact 5: "99'9%" is a way to express he was not much wellknown, since "his" games sold probably less than 3 milion. Source?

Fact 6: You say my justifications are questionable, but you've just called me stupid. Insulting is the most questionable way to discredit the bearer of the message's message. You already insulted me and Hero_42.
"The fact that you and swamp believe Lucas and Wolf were requested is easily explainable: you've come to dislike my way of thinking and do need to discredit everything I say. "

Implying that we're arguing with you JUST to spite you is a HUGE slur on our character. I will not tolerate that.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Fact 1: 40 million G&W were sold over the world while only 1'3 Gyromites did (I don't have information for StackUp, but I'm sure they aren't getting to 3 million). http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_&_Watch / http://www.vgchartz.com/game/6285/gyromite/


Fact 2: "Lucas was requested quite a bit", which is lesser than ****king Tails request (who at least appeared in more than one game)


Fact 3: Mother is not as popular as Tails, Golden Sun nor other priorities. The third entry (Lucas one) is developed by Brawl creators.


Fact 4: The worst character ever is Ganondorf.


Fact 5: "99'9%" is a way to express he was not much wellknown, since "his" games sold probably less than 3 milion.


Fact 6: You say my justifications are questionable, but you've just called me stupid. Insulting is the most questionable way to discredit the bearer of the message's message.

This post was almost a decent argument? Except you used Wikipedia and VGchartz as sources. =(

Tails had no chance at being playable, so requests don't matter there. And clearly, despite any possible competition with Isaac (source? I don't remember him being that popular), Sakurai felt Lucas was more important than Isaac.

Oh and being in one game only doesn't matter. ICs were only in one game. Sheik's only been in one game. Technically G&W was never in any games. Roy was only in one game.

And to Ganon I can only say...huh?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And to Ganon I can only say...huh?

He's referring to the tier list.

 

[AnOkayDM]

He's referring to the tier list.

Oh well sure tiers matter

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oh well sure tiers matter

BUT TIRES DON EXIST!!!!!

 

[buirac]

Yep, you got me, I'm just being vindictive. Find me some proof that Lucas WASN'T requested. I know he was though, so good luck with that. My proof is theorical, which is way more strong than your nothingless. Brawl roster fakes shouldn't be counted as valid but here they are: http://www.google.es/imgres?imgurl=...uz2kUfupNOLy7Aa80IGwCQ&ved=0CD8Q9QEwAw&dur=16
http://www.google.es/imgres?imgurl=...z2kUfupNOLy7Aa80IGwCQ&ved=0CDwQ9QEwAg&dur=364. (look for Lucas! [good luck])

My point is that attempting the moveset potential argument is stupid and immediately invalidates your argument. R.O.B. doesn't have canon moves because he's never fought before. With you I discused my dislike of R.O.B. in some points, not just his implementation. I agree characters are not picked for their potentially cannonic moveset.



And by the time Melee came around, the Ice Climbers were still incredibly fresh in people's minds, right? They'd been in a lot of recent games and people were definitely clamoring for their inclusion. As I told swamp, Ice Climbers were put there for their Dual Habilities, it was not a matter of popularity. R.O.B. doesn't have any of the necessary factors.

This argument of yours is invalid. I don't know how many times I have to say this: he's an important piece of Nintendo's history. This is the last time I repeat he's an important piece of Nintendo's Employeers' History.



I'd still prefer you to quote, but if you insist on writing on my posts, this is fine.

And because I edited it in last time and you probably didn't see while replying:



Riiiiight, except he was still around and still far more well-known than G&W was at the time of his inclusion in Melee. 40000000 > 3 milion



First of all, as we keep telling you, he was requested more than expected. Just like Ike and several others. Any popularity post-Smash is invalid, since Smash definetely expanded it arbitrarially.

Secondly, they had vaguely similar B moves and entirely different A moves. Plus Lucas has a tether and an extended grab. The closest thing we have to a clone is Toon Link, and Lucas is nowhere near that similar to Ness. Nearly identical B moves, nearly identical place in tears, floatiness, model, etc. Half a clone.

And thirdly, Mother 3, Lucas's game, came out in 2006. Hardly a dead series. And for god's sake, Ice Climbers and Pit both came from much longer gaps. I'll give you 100 euros if we get a mother sequel. It's not the same to refloat a long dead series than to do so with a recently dead one. There's no nostalgy for the consumers, nor promotion. I'll repeat this too: Lucas got in because it's from HAL.

EDIT:


This.
This.
All of this.
ALL OF IT



Oh and also this.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Someone hasn't seemingly read that Sakurai wanted to implement Lucas since 64 after adding Ness.

And yeah, Mother won't get a sequel, that's what Itoi had said anyway.

Also R.O.B = Employees' History "Favourite". It's Nintendo's company, DUH. Let the employees reminiscence and have fun too with SSB because this is the company they're part of too!
I think they have also as much to party as we do.
Or should they just remove R.O.B so we get some fan-favourite, eh say, Krystal? If SSB had only fans determining which characters would get in, it would be damn BIG cluster**** since there's so many opinions.

In anycase, R.O.B's inclusion can be justified with many reasons: still was the fella that saved VG Crash of the 80s, and him being shown here and there in Nintendo's games as cameos tells us he's somewhat of a cult character. I guess there's still people who are bitter on him because "WAAAH HE TOOK A PLACE OF A CHARACTER I WANTED IN WAAH".

But this is pretty fun to watch nonetheless. Do more research Buirac before you prove us some nonsense.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Brawl roster fakes shouldn't be counted as valid

Okay then, they won't be.

As I told swamp, Ice Climbers were put there for their Dual Habilities, it was not a matter of popularity. R.O.B. doesn't have any of the necessary factors.

Yes he did. He fit all of the criteria and had the bonus of being an oddball, unexpected character.

This is the last time I repeat he's an important piece of Nintendo's Employeers' History.

No.
He's ****ing not.
He saved Nintendo and the entire games industry from the brink of collapse.

40000000 > 3 milion

First of all, sales don't matter.
Secondly, if you asked anyone before 2001 who Mr. Game and Watch was, all you would have gotten was a blank look. R.O.B. on the other hand was a decently well-known character.

Any popularity post-Smash is invalid, since Smash definetely expanded it arbitrarially.

Reasonable. Except I'm talking about popularity pre-Smash, and his requests. Which were high.

Nearly identical B moves, nearly identical place in tears, floatiness, model, etc. Half a clone.

Nope.
One identical B move, two with the same name that functioned differently, and one that was kiiinda similar to another? Except in effect.
Don't bring up tiers and expect to be taken seriously.
Everyone in Brawl was floaty. Oh, and Yoshi also had a weird second jump and an extended grab and a B move that curved and sometimes he kicks OMG HE'S A CLONE
Of course they have similar models. They're from the same universe.

I'll give you 100 euros if we get a mother sequel. It's not the same to refloat a long dead series than to do so with a recently dead one. There's no nostalgy for the consumers, nor promotion. I'll repeat this too: Lucas got in because it's from HAL.

Lucas's game was two ****ing years old when Brawl came out. It would've been even less so had it not been delayed. Olimar's last game was four years old; does that make his series dead?

 

[buirac]

2nd: Tails is an example, I'm not bothering to put more because we both know there were more popular alternatives.
3rd: Golden Sun got 2'5 million sales and Mother barely reached one. Golden Sun was not represented in Smash while Mother already was. Besides, all this stuff is pointless, since we all know Lucas is not as popular as some alternatives.

I'm not bothering with the rest of this post either.

 

[N3ON]

buirac, Lucas was popular pre-Brawl. Mostly in Japan, sure, but that's where Sakurai looks first when compiling the roster anyway. Mother is a huge series in Japan for having only three games. Japan gets priority. It might be unfair, but there's still a reason for including the Japan-only characters, and Sakurai doesn't include that many characters popular in Japan only anyway, there's usually a balance. Hell, he said Pit and Sonic were mostly added for the west.

ROB was a trojan horse, and a big deal. If Nintendo hadn't have marketed the NES as an "Entertainment System" and not a video game system, and hadn't included ROB to prove it wasn't solely about the video games (as people had a deep distrust of games at that time due to the crash) the NES likely would've floundered, at least in the west. Sure, once people caught on and appreciated the system for what it was really meant for, Nintendo was able to drop ROB, but they wouldn't have even gotten to that point without him. If not for ROB, you likely wouldn't even be playing Smash. ROB is a piece of Nintendo history. History is history, it looks the same whether you are a Nintendo employee or a Nintendo consumer.

And VGChartz are largely inaccurate, you should stop using them. Or just stop posting. Either works.

 

[AnOkayDM]

3rd: Golden Sun got 2'5 million sales and Mother barely reached one.

Not that sales matter, but games that release in more than one region generally sell better than games that don't.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

2nd: Tails is an example, I'm not bothering to put more because we both know there were more popular alternatives. But are they Nintendo characters?
3rd: Golden Sun got 2'5 million sales and Mother barely reached one. Golden Sun was not represented in Smash while Mother already was. Besides, all this stuff is pointless, since we all know Lucas is not as popular as some alternatives. Which Mother game and which Golden Sun game? You're leaving out details.

Sure Lucas wasn't the most popular request. That was Sonic. He was a popular request though. He showed up quite frequently. I remember all of the people celebrating when he was revealed.

I'm not bothering with the rest of this post either.
So you give up. I suppose me and Hero_42 win the arguement.

 

[buirac]

Someone hasn't seemingly read that Sakurai wanted to implement Lucas since 64 after adding Ness. It seems unlikely since Lucas was created in 2006.

And yeah, Mother won't get a sequel, that's what Itoi had said anyway.

Also R.O.B = Employees' History "Favourite". It's Nintendo's company, DUH. Let the employees reminiscence and have fun too with SSB because this is the company they're part of too!
I think they have also as much to party as we do.
Or should they just remove R.O.B so we get some fan-favourite, eh say, Krystal? If SSB had only fans determining which characters would get in, it would be damn BIG cluster**** since there's so many opinions. I only said Krystal should be over wolf (wanna know why? look at my past posts). And of course Nintendo has the right of having fun with Smash. In capitalism it doesn't matter the common good if the owner wants to have some fun.

In anycase, R.O.B's inclusion can be justified with many reasons: still was the fella that saved VG Crash of the 80s, and him being shown here and there in Nintendo's games as cameos tells us he's somewhat of a cult character. I guess there's still people who are bitter on him because "WAAAH HE TOOK A PLACE OF A CHARACTER I WANTED IN WAAH". Sorry but I'm not buying that tale. Besides, you can't include a character in a crossover just because it has been "crossovered" before.

But this is pretty fun to watch nonetheless. Do more research Buirac before you prove us some nonsense.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Sorry but I'm not buying that tale. Besides, you can't include a character in a crossover just because it has been "crossovered" before.

What tale? That he saved the gaming industry? Because that's the truth.

 

[N3ON]

It seems unlikely since Lucas was created in 2006.

Listen to everyone and do your research.

Sorry but I'm not buying that tale.

Ignorance doesn't get more blatant than this.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Lucas was drafted up during the 64 days. There were plans to have him replace Ness, but Mother 3 got delayed again and again until it was finally released in 2006.

Thinking Krystal is the "common good?" LO-FREAKING-L!!!!

And you're refusing to believe historical fact? You really are something aren't you.

Stupidity doesn't get more blatant than this.

Fixed for truth.

 

[Shorts]

lolol godlen sun sold 25 mil.

lololololol.

 

[buirac]

Sigh. I've just read in the Wiki Lucas never got out of Japan. This is my last point in this issue.

All my sales data is based on vgchartz

I think you are trolling with the "victory stuff" but ok:

1. You said having a whole console (G&W) does not give as much protagonism to a character than a single game (Gyro/Stack). I still wonder why did you say that.

5. You asked me for source, I told you up here.

6. Where did I insult you?

 

[N3ON]

lolol godlen sun sold 25 mil.

lololololol.

Think he meant 2.5 mil. Anyway, that's still wrong, but it's closer.

Sigh. I've just read in the Wiki Lucas never got out of Japan. This is my last point in this issue.

You didn't know this beforehand? lol

All my sales data is based on vgchartz

None of your sales data should be based on vgchartz

 

[kikaru]

lolol godlen sun sold 25 mil.

lololololol.

I think by 2'5 he meant 2.5 million, not 25 million. I kinda wish it was 25 million though
Edit: You ninja...

 

[Neanderthal]

My critique of your roster:

Ghirahim: Not impossible but no villain or side character of a single game has ever made it into SSB.
He has the same role as the ignored Zant did during Brawl but a bit more popularity. However probably about equal popularity to what Midna had who was also ignored.

Samurai Goroh: I only expect 10 or so newcomers at the most so I'd be surprised if a slot is used on a character like Goroh. Having said that I guess he does have more popularity in Japan and the possible very slight advantage of being rival to the last of the original 12 not to have a counterpart.

Karate Joe/Sheriff: I appreciate trying to be unique and they probably do have a better chance than most people give them, but I don't see them making it in what I believe will be a shorter newcomer list than past games. Definitely not both.

# 2: The character must be unique.

I believe you have contradicted yourself here when you include four Fire Emblem characters who will likely have very similar movesets/fight styles.
I would expect three at most, and wouldn't even be surprised by only two.


It's a bold prediction that there will be no new third party characters. Not ridiculous like some people say, but I disagree.
I'm a big believer in the Namco connection giving a character like Pac-Man a great chance.
I wouldn't be too surprised if Megaman shows up too but I'm not expecting it.


Lastly, the number 50 is a few more characters than I expect given that Sakurai said there will be less newcomers this time.


The rest of the analysis is quite good and I agree with most of what you say.

 

[buirac]

lolol godlen sun sold 25 mil.

lololololol.

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=golden+sun

 

[AnOkayDM]

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=golden sun

VGchartz is widely known to be inaccurate.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sigh. I've just read in the Wiki Lucas never got out of Japan. This is my last point in this issue. Neither did Marth when he was included. You're not complaining about him. Besides Lucas did appear in an American game. Brawl.

All my sales data is based on vgchartz. Yeah. That place isn't accurate. Besides 25 million is ABSOLUTELY BONKERS!!!1 Mario games don't even sell that well.

I think you are trolling with the "victory stuff" but ok: ???

1. You said having a whole console (G&W) does not give as much protagonism to a character than a single game (Gyro/Stack). I still wonder why did you say that.
G&W wasn't an actual character until Melee. Actual Game and Watch games starred nameless entities that performed various activities. None of them were ever named. R.O.B. at least had some sort of identity.

6. Where did I insult you?
I already told you above.

 

[N3ON]

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=golden sun

Where do you see 25 million? Or 2.5 million for that matter? I see 3.6... but that's not right either.

Golden Sun (the series) has sold a rough total of about 2.2-2.3 million. Those are the correct numbers.

 

[FalKoopa]

Wow, Hero_42 and Swampasaur, you're arguing with him for the last few hours? (I didn't expect anyone to spend so much time trying to educate him, but I see the effort was useless. (-_-)

 

[AnOkayDM]

Wow, Hero_42 and Swampasaur, you're arguing with him for the last few hours? (I didn't expect anyone to spend so much time trying to educate him, but I see the effort was useless. (-_-)

I have slight isues with letting an argument go. Especially when I know I'm right.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wow, Hero_42 and Swampasaur, you're arguing with him for the last few hours? (I didn't expect anyone to spend so much time trying to educate him, but I see the effort was useless. (-_-)

 

[buirac]

Give me something better than VGchartz and I will listen.

R.O.B. didn't save gaming industry, saying it did is showing ignorance.

At first I thought the whole Mother series was only Japanese, but people were advocating for Lucas so hard I realized he had to be at least worldwide.

When I spoke about "common good" I was refering to Japanese selfishness with their roster choice. They only represent 21% of Smash. I'm not even judging this fact. It is objectively selfish and a bad idea economically speaking.


I'm not complaining about Marth because he was the first from his saga and was not from an already dead series. My comment on Lucas endemism was made in a context where this two factors were already commented.

I'm kind of tired and I didn't count well the 3'6 milion (there's a coma).

Maybe it's you Falkoopa, the one who should be educated. I mean, you haven't been much polite since I met you.