AnOkayDM
Smash Champion
He did.R.O.B. didn't save gaming industry, saying it did is showing ignorance.
Do some ****ing research.
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He did.R.O.B. didn't save gaming industry, saying it did is showing ignorance.
This is a fact. It's you who is being ignorant, I'm sorry to say. Do some research.R.O.B. didn't save gaming industry, saying it did is showing ignorance.
R.O.B. was released with the intention of portraying the Nintendo Entertainment System as something novel in order to alleviate retail fears following the video game crash of 1983.
No. It's actually a good strategy. Look at Fire Emblem. It was unknown pre-Melee, but now it has grown so large that people are clamouring for four FE reps in Smash 4.At first I thought the whole Mother series was only Japanese, but people were advocating for Lucas so hard I realized he had to be at least worldwide.
When I spoke about "common good" I was refering to Japanese selfishness with their roster choice. They only represent 21% of Smash. I'm not even judging this fact. It is objectively selfish and a bad idea economically speaking.
I don't remember when I exactly "met" you. Well, whatever, I'll tone it down a bit.Maybe it's you Falkoopa, the one who should be educated. I mean, you haven't been much polite since I met you.
You're a troll. Aren't you?Give me something better than VGchartz and I will listen. Ask N3ON for her sources. They will be accurate.
R.O.B. didn't save gaming industry, saying it did is showing ignorance. You are denying historical fact. Why are you denying this? It's like saying man never landed on the moon. It is denying historical fact! If you believe that R.O.B. never saved the industry, explain why you think so.
At first I thought the whole Mother series was only Japanese, but people were advocating for Lucas so hard I realized he had to be at least worldwide. ... Do you know anything about Mother? Mother 1 and Mother 3 (Lucas' game) were Japan only. HOWEVER! Mother 2, under the name of Earthbound (Ness' game) was released internationally.
When I spoke about "common good" I was refering to Japanese selfishness with their roster choice. They only represent 21% of Smash. I'm not even judging this fact. It is objectively selfish and a bad idea economically speaking. ... Japan is the main demographic. The game is being made by Japanese people, for Japanese people and in Japan. We get games as a bonus. Do not act entitled. Besides, Marth, Lucas and Roy were all well received so there is no backlash for including Japan only character.
I'm kind of tired and I didn't count well the 3'6 milion (there's a coma). You must be REALLLLLLLLLLY tired.
Maybe it's you Falkoopa, the one who should be educated. I mean, you haven't been much polite since I met you. And from what he's seen, you don't seem very smart.
I'm more interested as to why he thought R.O.B. was Japan only.Oh, I forgot my most important point.
Japan only characters tend to be awesome.
Also, I see his arguments are directed primarily on Lucas and ROB. I should ask, on what grounds do you exempt Roy?
I await your apology when Pac-Man is confirmedBy difficulties, I mean the process of fitting in. Sakurai has went on the record to say this:
To end this Samus/Mega Man debate, there isn't any reason to believe that the very minor similarity will have any impact on Mega Man's chances. By this logic, you can also argue that there are similarities between Lloyd and sword users since both uses swords (even if Lloyd uses two swords, it's still a sword). However, these minor difference won't hurt Lloyd either.
As for what third-parties get picked, we'll have to see what happens here. I'm not going to claim that Mega Man is going to be in or that Lloyd definitely won't make the cut (I actually do think that he's the most likely Namco rep and probably the only realistic one). I'd even argue that Layton is also a real possibility to keep an eye out for. But one thing is for certain, a trivial similarity as the Samus/Mega Man's arm cannon comparison will not be what Sakurai thinks about when deciding on him.
But if Lloyd gets picked, I actually would have no objection considering that any possible third-party has got to be better than Pac-Man at this rate. Eh, tired of this debate anyway.
Thus, I must ask myself: is it me who is backwards or is it the world? Of course, I will always think that it is you, and so you will do with me. The reasons I can give to justify your insanity are: "you all are hardcore fanboys who won't admit a complaint against Nintendo's rosters" and "you are just North-American".
My "antifanboy" mentality only rose against the people who started mocking my opinions, sources and person. I'm sorry if you felt targeted by my last statement, it wasn't meant to.I love the "you disagree with me, you're all fanboys" mentality. I know how much **** Nintendo can make (Oh Other M why, oh Virtual Boy, oh so many things,) but Brawl's roster definitely served the overall image better than any of those suggested characters would. I don't think Brawl's roster was perfect by any means, look at my avatar jeez, but the Brawl roster doesn't objectively suck just because you think it did, and that's how you treat it. I can't believe I really have to say this, but Opinion=/=Fact.
Also, even though Mother is a dying franchise, it still needs representation. Smash Bros isn't all about advertising for other games. In that manner Krystal shouldn't even be in your mentions considering Star Fox is on hiatus, and Krystal doesn't appear in the Star Fox 64 3DS remake. On top of that, Snake would never have made it in the game considering he's on rival consoles. Further following your logic that only big franchises should have multiple representants (considering how much you think Dedede and Meta Knight didn't deserve to be in even if it's a big franchise), we can opt Krystal even more out. Then we can open our arms to a roster filled with 40% Mario, 30% Pokémon, 20% LoZ, and 10% other characters. GG.
By the way, I'm Danish, sø yøur flåwæd præ-judicæ døæsn't wørk.
Note: I don't hate the idea of Krystal, I'm neutral to it, but it's easy to pick your arguments apart using that specific character.
My "antifanboy" mentality only rose against the people who started mocking my opinions, sources and person. I'm sorry if you felt targeted by my last statement, it wasn't meant to.
If you scroll back my posts, you will see that I never said Brawl's roster sucks. I only said its criteria was arbitrary, and that this fact led to bad choices: R.O.B., Lucas and "Wolf over Krystal" (my justification is up there). I don't think DDD, Metaknight nor Lucario are bad characters, I only discussed their way to get there, their priority.
Besides, you should check again my Very First Post on this site, where I stated the only iterative new characters from Melee's consolidated biggest sagas are Bowser Jr, Paper Mario and Impa (this one has been on eight games). Given this fact, it's obvious that we should represent other sagas, specially new, popular and active ones, such as Golden Sun or Xenoblade, while regenerating powerful others like Metroid, Fire Emblem or Pokemon.
So.....A fanboy is someone who claims to be a fan of something but spends all day criticizing it. They will defend it if you dare criticize it yourself though.
Falco's inclusion was exactly because he was popular and important to his franchise, Wolf was considered before him first, but Falco got in over him for the previously mentioned reasons.I think Diddy got in the series in the same way DDD or Metaknight would have on their own. The fact is that they were added simultaneously. The only precedents of a franchise getting this much nonclonical stuff are Mario-Luigi, Pikachu-Jigglypuff, Peach-Bowser, Mewtwo-Pichu, PokemonT-Lucario and Ganondorf-Sheik-Zelda. So only Mario, Zelda and Pokémon sagas were worth having so much attention. The case with Marth and Roy is quite different because they are clones (besides, their 0+2 [Marth/Roy] is not as shocking as the [kirby] 1+2 [DDD/Metaknight] from Dreamland). At the same time, the only Big Franchise that got full new characters was Pokemon. So, somehow, getting DDD and Metaknight together felt like they were being compared to such (indeed, they were on the first video Brawl showed), but Kirby's franchise had always been treated like a Tiny One until then! Here we have another proof of mixed, inconstant criteria.
To end, Falco is a clone, his criteria for getting into Brawl was Arbitrary Cloning. 6 clones for 1 new character, do you remember? Not even this criteria was followed in Brawl, since the Half Clones (such as Wolf or Lucas) were introduced in that generation, and they didn't follow the previous cloning rules.
It's like an earthquake. It happens in a quick moment and leaves massive devastation.So I check the thread again after half a day, and I see that the after-effects of the discussion are still being felt.
Overall:
You justify Kirby's World ilicit affluence by saying it was restrainted at first. Saying it's worldwide as big as Metroid (even if more resources, hype and better critics are put in it). Saying that the fact Sakurai created it is not important.
You justify the Dumb Duo of Lucas and R.O.B. by saying: Lucas was in the polls (though I haven't seen that, but suspicious anticipative rosters with his abscence instead). R.O.B. saved gaming industry (though "most people" won't ever know, ****, he is like the Dark Knight!). Lucas was more popular than alternatives (¿?). Nintendo has the natural right to **** with 80% of its audience. That the fact that Hal created Lucas is not important. The fact that Lucas entrance enables Mother to be as represented as Metroid and DK is not important. The fact that Lucas is from a recent but dead franchise is not important (his case is like Fire Emblem's promotion, it's OK if his franchise is dead). R.O.B. is way more wellknown than G&W (despite the fact that the second sold x10 more than the first) because the first appeared on Mario Kart DS and the second didn't have a concrete name.
You justify Wolf was over Krystal by saying it is stated by the polls (but there are no links). And it's definetely not a (half)cloning issue. Of course, the fact that they appeared in the same number of games, the fact that Krystal was playable, more transcendent and, to sum up, more than a simple head on a side of the screen yelling at you, does not matter.
You think that I'm stupid because I don't believe that the silliest game i've ever seen saved the whole game industry from complete obliteration.
Thus, I must ask myself: is it me who is backwards or is it the world? Of course, I will always think that it is you, and so you will do with me. The reasons I can give to justify your insanity are: "you all are hardcore fanboys who won't admit a complaint against Nintendo's rosters" and "you are just North-American".
Unfair. They have already got in the game (indeed, they are bestly known for this fact). Alternatives to this 3 characters would have been loved too. My point is they were illegitimatelly priorized. Do you have any argument to this fact outside the "Overall"?@buirac
The basic point is that Lucas, ROB, and Wolf were not mistakes. The majority of smash fans love them and want them to remain.
Also, why don't you run a poll on how many people think Lucas, ROB, and Wolf were mistakes? It's pretty easy now-a-days, with sites like easypolls.com.
I don't really think I need any other argument, you know. The "Overall" argument is the one the one that matters the most. You would want the game to please a majority of the fanbase, not a select few.Do you have any argument to this fact outside the "Overall"?
Every single point in your argumentation is in the Overall:Uh, are we on stupid train 101 now here? Lucas was a highly requested character (As much as I love Masked Man, it would make NO sense for him to appear before him) to begin with on the Brawl polls and was planned ever since Smash 64, making him the only character to be planned and be in one Smash game so far asides from Mewtwo. Wolf was also a very highly requested character (Requested more on everywhere outside of the Melee polls for Melee) and Krystal's popularity only unfortunately came afterwards; plus while Krystal's more important than Falco, Falco was already in and Wolf is arguably more important than both of them. Mother 3 has been one of the most popular ones and Wolf has been a trademark of every Star Fox game. To add to that, Wolf was even in the Melee trailer showing that with more time, they could have done him (For a start, unlike Falco, he didn't have a full body figure from 64)
So people wanted those characters, and asides from the people that actually expected Krystal or Masked Man to get in before (Though Krystal is a bit more viable) almost nobody was angry on their announcements. They're also the least cloniest.
As for R.O.B. bash all you want i don't really care he's okay but we could have gotten a better wtf character. I guess there's not much to choose from out of Ninty's history though; especially with some even being requested. (SUKAPONNNNN)
R.O.B., Lucas, and Wolf all had good reasons for being included.
Most of us do criticize Sakurai's roster. Namely lack of certain characters and several of the Melee clones. We just feel that Sakurai made the right decision with R.O.B. Lucas and Wolf.
The arguments we had typically revolved around R.O.B. Lucas and Wolf and whether they were mistakes. They were not.
Regardless, we should get back to on topic discussions.
I don't know if I've said it yet but I enjoy reading Smashchu's ramblings. It's interesting hearing his opinion.
I'm sorry... I just can't let this go.Every single point in your argumentation is in the Overall:
1st: I still have to see those polls. Theorical reasons are against Lucas being as requested as lots of alternatives. Lucas might have been predicted (as he is Hal's creation, and had been in a recent videogame), but there is no reason to believe he was requested, as he was a Japanese exclusive (if you don't know him, you can't request him), from a Tiny Franchise (total = 2), only appeared in one LAST game and was a potential clone (though he ended being a semiclone). My only tangible proof of his not-enough-popularity are fake rosters spread in the net; there's no Lucas, but some Paulas or Masked Mans (this is more tangible proof than you offer). The fact that he was planned for the Original Smash only exposes that the company believed Smash wouldn't get out of Japan. Actually, this point is pretty much against your idea, since it tells us Lucas was desired by the company, not by the fans, as he could have gotten in the roster without fans request. You know what. Look below.
2nd: I still have to see those polls. Look around. You will find some. Theorical reasons are against "Wolf over Krystal" was requested. Before Brawl, Krystal and Wolf have appeared in the same number of games, but:
- Krystal is more than a blurry floating head yelling at you from the side of the screen. As if Wolf.
- Krystal is playable (a blurry floating head yelling at you from the side of the screen is not) As is Wolf.
- Krystal is better designed than a blurry floating head yelling at you from the side of the screen. That's opinion sir. And should be not be treated as fact.
- As Krystal is playable and appears during her whole games we can assume she is more important than a blurry floating head yelling at you from the side of the screen. Have you played Assault or Command? No really?
- Krystal is an idol in "furry" communities. That's more of a negative.
- Krystal has way more possibilities for her moveset than a blurry floating head yelling at you from the side of the screen. Wolf had plenty of moveset potential. The weapons from Assault would have been amazing.
- (This is not a point for everyone, but some people consider it) Krystal balances sex. Not really a point, but you admit that so, no problems there.
Again, the company didn't coincide with the audience, as she wasn't designed by Nintendo (don't bring Diddy here, since every important DK character is Rare's - except DK himself) and Wolf was. Besides the arbitrary favor (arbitrary for the audience, I mean), Wolf didn't have to be made from scratch. That's a REALLY big assumption there. Can you prove it?
3rd: I'm not bashing R.O.B. I'm stating his inclusion has selfish, antieconomical reasons. Isn't that bashing him?
1st: I haven't read any of such critcs. Besides it's difficult for me to see which inclusions would deserve them more. Read around in other threads. Most of us despise Pichu and Doc and think Roy, Mewtwo and Ridley should have been in Brawl.
2nd: I liked SmashChus analysis too, this is the reason because of which I wanted to discuss his rules. In fact, my critic to R.O.B./Lucas/WolfoverKristal is only a part of my real point: Smash rules are inconstant, due to economical different situations. Okay.
Not going to spend too much time on this but I'll summarize if you don't feel like reading the red: Lucas and Wolf had every reason and highly deserved their place on the Roster for being liked by Developers, being liked by Fans, and being both interesting additions to their perspective series making both Smash fans satisfied and people interested in trying out their games. Could Krystal and Masked Man be more interesting? Yes, easily; frankly some of the most interesting characters Smash could ever see given their perspective games. Was it the time for those two characters? No not really, though I guess you can keep ping-ponging about Wolf. Could their movesets be a tad bit better? I guess Wolf's could use more Assault weapons (Maybe varying up the B moves a bit?) and a bit more of a varied gameplay style, and both could use a different Final Smash, but other then that they're close to or are perfectly fine as is.Every single point in your argumentation is in the Overall:
1st: I still have to see those polls. Theorical reasons are against Lucas being as requested as lots of alternatives. Lucas might have been predicted (as he is Hal's creation, and had been in a recent videogame), but there is no reason to believe he was requested, as he was a Japanese exclusive (if you don't know him, you can't request him), from a Tiny Franchise (total = 2), only appeared in one LAST game and was a potential clone (though he ended being a semiclone). My only tangible proof of his not-enough-popularity are fake rosters spread in the net; there's no Lucas, but some Paulas or Masked Mans (this is more tangible proof than you offer). The fact that he was planned for the Original Smash only exposes that the company believed Smash wouldn't get out of Japan. Actually, this point is pretty much against your idea, since it tells us Lucas was desired by the company, not by the fans, as he could have gotten in the roster without fans request. Did you read the original NSider? That's where a lot of support from Lyn came, amongst others that I could go on listing. There's the Brawl polls floating around somewhere here and to top that off, he was confirmed rather early. The size of the franchise doesn't matter that much as proven on several occasions.
As I said, more people may have wanted Masked Man over Lucas, which is highly plausible, but speaking realistically, it makes no sense to have the Antagonist before the Protagonist + That's even more reasoning. I can bet you right now that between Melee and Brawl, Mother 3 was one of the most well-received games from Nintendo's newer stuff. Maybe not the most popular, but people surely love it on the same scale as Fire Emblem 9/10, Golden Sun 1/2, Pikmin 1/2, Wind Waker, TTYD, and Sunshine. Really, go look it all up yourself.
He's not even that semi-clone.
Original Smash and Melee. Mother 3 was originally going to make it out to the states and was even shown multiple times at SpaceWorld and other exhibits when it was on the N64. Only reason he didn't was because, well, his game didn't finish until long later than that. Honestly, every character could have got in without popularity, and especially with Brawl, a lot of them probably did. I think the only ones where popularity truly helped were Sonic, Lucario (To an extent), and Wolf (Once again, to an extent)
2nd: I still have to see those polls. Theorical reasons are against "Wolf over Krystal" was requested. Before Brawl, Krystal and Wolf have appeared in the same number of games, but:
- Krystal is more than a blurry floating head yelling at you from the side of the screen :Read: Below
- Krystal is playable (a blurry floating head yelling at you from the side of the screen is not) Krystal was playable for a portion of Adventures (A very short portion) and Command. Wolf was playable in the multiplayer of Assault, helped the team in the last mission, and was playable in Command.
- Krystal is better designed than a blurry floating head yelling at you from the side of the screen Read: Above
- As Krystal is playable and appears during her whole games we can assume she is more important than a blurry floating head yelling at you from the side of the screen In Adventures she serves as the heroine/kidnapped, so I'll give you that, but beyond that let's look.
-Command (Wolf plays the highest role asides from Fox but this entire plot is garbage anyways)
-Assault (Wolf plays a role in helping Fox/takes part in a good portion of the game)
-64 (Whether he's more important than one of the partners is a constant debate so I'm not going over this much)
-2 (He had a lot of importance there)
- Krystal is an idol in "furry" communities ...and?
- Krystal has way more possibilities for her moveset than a blurry floating head yelling at you from the side of the screen Sort-of, but Fox uses the Staff most of the game and Wolf does have unique attributes even if not showing it
- (This is not a point for everyone, but some people consider it) Krystal balances sexwolf appeals to the black minority of smash
Again, the company didn't coincide with the audience, as she wasn't designed by Nintendo (don't bring Diddy here, since every important DK character is Rare's - except DK himself) and Wolf was. Besides the arbitrary favor (arbitrary for the audience, I mean), Wolf didn't have to be made from scratch.
3rd: I'm not bashing R.O.B. I'm stating his inclusion has selfish, antieconomical reasons. I don't want to get into another "I bash Sakurai as a producer" discussion so I'll say I can sort-of half agree there, give it a 50/50, and leave it at that.
I'm sorry... I just can't let this go.
Even though you are too lazy to look things up for yourself. I found some results from an official poll. Note. This is only part of the poll but my point
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/characters-on-sakurais-poll.71872/
There's an official poll from Sakurai. Lucas did pretty well tieing with several other characters.
Wolf does not appear to do well but you have to remember that the poll is only shown in bits and peices. Sonic is nowhere to be found and he was apparently put in because he dominated the polls.
The poll only shows that Lucas was a popular request.
I think theorical reasons for Wolf over Krystal started to overcome me... Until swamp showed us the poll ranking.Not going to spend too much time on this but I'll summarize if you don't feel like reading the red: Lucas and Wolf had every reason and highly deserved their place on the Roster for being liked by Developers, being liked by Fans, and being both interesting additions to their perspective series making both Smash fans satisfied and people interested in trying out their games. Could Krystal and Masked Man be more interesting? Yes, easily; frankly some of the most interesting characters Smash could ever see given their perspective games. Was it the time for those two characters? No not really, though I guess you can keep ping-ponging about Wolf. Could their movesets be a tad bit better? I guess Wolf's could use more Assault weapons (Maybe varying up the B moves a bit?) and a bit more of a varied gameplay style, and both could use a different Final Smash, but other then that they're close to or are perfectly fine as is.
And then all you've got left of the argument is "Lucas and Wolf come from series that don't deserve ___ reps!" which I've got no idea how much longer people will pull this one out of their *** for - It matters, but not nearly as much as people think it does. Ever try MvC2/3? Namco x Capcom? Fortune Street? Mario Sports Mix? In crossover games it really doesn't matter. In-fact, I would even go as far as to say more "Lesser represented" series could use more reps just to tract more interest into the franchise. It's the one time every console generation that traction can be gained for their series, and it's worked every time. Melee helped Fire Emblem, Game & Watch, and Mother. Brawl helped FE, Pikmin, Mother, Kid Icarus, Kirby (Kirby wasn't all so hot in the 6th gen, and to an extent, 5th gen), DK, and so on.
Really, I want Smash 4 to expand on supporting characters (completing some franchises asides from Kirby would be nice bros) and give more new series. I'd love that more than seeing say, Toon Zelda, Bowser Jr, or Mewtwo (not that I hate them or anything) as we would get fresh interest into even more games and it works fair for everyone in the end with the 3DS/WiiU lifecycle
COME AT ME NAYSAYERS.
Wolf did well on the Melee poll and was apparently ranked high on the NSider poll. Though I've proved my point about Wolf with just about everything else.
Sonic got in because he was by far (Like, literally by far, for anyone who knows anything about the original NSider) the most requested character for a Smash game... ever. There were seriously some crazy nuts who truly wanted him in the game.
Okay, let's leave it at that. Wolf deserved his spot and Krystal would be cool sometime in the future. Great. Now onto Lucas.I think theorical reasons for Wolf over Krystal started to overcome me... Until swamp showed us the poll ranking.
What I'm more-or-less saying is that Earthbound (Well, after Smash) and Mother 3 are highly recognized and were high up there in likability. Seriously, M3 was not only one of the few Nintendo games to get a full fan translation running the way they did, but it got quite a cult following that frankly was pretty scary. In-general, a second mother representative was also requested a lot. Masked Man was requested abit more but the problem with that is priority, so... yeah. Stuff happens.Lucas case is different. You've recognized Earthbound couldn't be greater than the time's Paper Mario and Golden Sun, and then you said you wanted new series. Lucas was not more popular than Hans (poll ranking), who came from a new franchise. It wouldn't make the game more interesting than Hans. Here you have it, and Hans is only an example.
I'm not implying that all characters should be picked because of their popularity, but Lucas had little more to offer (not even promotion: dead saga).