Smashboards Mini-Recreates: The SSB Series Rosters

[Louie G.]

To elaborate on this, we only have room for five more fighters once semi-clone newcomers and the three next veterans are accounted for. From these five fighters, at least four are veterans, and at least two of these veterans are semi-clones.

So for clarification, we have one more batch of two semiclones to fill out after this one is decided right? I'm assuming this particular vote is for someone to more or less fill the role of Lucas, and then wrapping up with Toon Link / Wolf?

In that case, I feel like it wouldn't hurt to just grab two from this batch since I suspect Dark Samus or Toon Link are just popular names that will show up again (with Lyn being the clear frontrunner rn). Either way is fine... unless you were also thinking of letting us vote on whoever we want to fill those last two roles, cloned veteran and newcomer alike? I'm just curious, you should play it out the way you like since you've been handling it well but maybe it would help to know the next couple prompts just so we know if there's another chance for certain characters later.

 

[Northsouthmap]

1. Dark Samus
2. Lyn
3. Toon Link

1. Yoshi
2. King Dedede
3. Mewtwo

 

[Pupp135]

So for clarification, we have one more batch of two semiclones to fill out after this one is decided right? I'm assuming this particular vote is for someone to more or less fill the role of Lucas, and then wrapping up with Toon Link / Wolf?

In that case, I feel like it wouldn't hurt to just grab two from this batch since I suspect Dark Samus or Toon Link are just popular names that will show up again (with Lyn being the clear frontrunner rn). Either way is fine... unless you were also thinking of letting us vote on whoever we want to fill those last two roles, cloned veteran and newcomer alike? I'm just curious, you should play it out the way you like since you've been handling it well but maybe it would help to know the next couple prompts just so we know if there's another chance for certain characters later.

I was thinking of having the final batch be two semi-clones like Toon Link/Wolf, and I’m fine adding two semi-clones here instead as one of or even both of Dark Samus/Toon Link would probably take the last two spots (Lucas is probably the only other choice where I could see a semi-clone join). Also, having two clones earlier does fit the scenario where Wolf was rushed and more last minute than the other fighters.

Remaining Jobs:

Submit a Fighter
Add in Two Veterans (Unique or Semi-Clone will really just depend on the prior job’s submissions)
Submit a Semi-Clone
Submit the Final Two Veterans

Do you think it’d be better just to vote for four veterans and then to let us choose our last unique fighter and semi-clone?

 

[Louie G.]

Do you think it’d be better just to vote for four veterans and then to let us choose our last unique fighter and semi-clone?

Up to you! I think either way works, was just kinda thinking out loud and figured I’d share. I feel like we probably shouldn’t go all in with all three semiclones this round at least, since maybe we’ll want to base one of the remaining characters off someone who hasn’t been added yet.

Like, Ness isn’t even here so Lucas can’t be a semiclone off anyone yet. Dixie Kong is also a valid choice that can’t be nominated yet. I think we could get away with locking in two characters this round if you’re comfortable with it, but the pool may widen and we should leave at least one space available for that. Or two as initially planned, whichever.

 

[Mamboo07]

Semi-Clones

1. Dark Samus
2. Lyn
3. Toon Link

Veterans

1. Yoshi
2. Dedede
3. Mewtwo

 

[TORNADO BUS DRIVER]

Depends what we do with Diddy but with us losing ZZS and Sheik I think Diddy and Dixie could take their place as a split up character next game. Or we could just add Diddy.

Trainer will probably be Blazakin

 

[Louie G.]

Trainer will probably be Blazakin

This choice works nicely into Smash 4 era too since he was a big mega evolution guy, and was front and center during Pokken’s first reveal. One of the definitive fighting types. Although if we want to bring Charizard in independently there may be a chance that Blaziken becomes lower priority.

Jumping the gun a bit here, but it’s interesting to think about! Guess we’ll see how it goes. I’m kinda rooting for Diddy / Dixie at this point too but I’m trying to think of which ways we could justify them being a tag team, which unique strengths and weaknesses they would possess etc. I see them being much more Pyra / Mythra adjacent where they’re semiclones of each other.

 

[TheLastMaverickHunter]

This choice works nicely into Smash 4 era too since he was a big mega evolution guy, and was front and center during Pokken’s first reveal. One of the definitive fighting types. Although if we want to bring Charizard in independently there may be a chance that Blaziken becomes lower priority.

I could see Charizard waiting until Sm4sh or Ultimate; considering his popularity, you could probably justify adding him later down the line.

 

[Pupp135]

Here are the votes
Dark Samus 18
Plusle & Minun 3
Black Knight 1
Lyn 26
Toon Link 12

Lyn and Dark Samus are our first two semi-clones.

Spoiler: Eligible Veterans

Mr. Game & Watch 1
Princess Daisy
Donkey Kong Jr.
Yoshi 20
Celica
Black Shadow
King Dedede 15
Falco
Ness 13
Meowth
Mewtwo 5
Pichu

Ness, Yoshi, and King Dedede are the next veterans.

Job 26: Submit a Veteran or Newcomer.

Renominating Ice Climbers here as I think the gimmick is cool.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Job 26:

Job 20: Bowser Jr. (Super Mario)

At this point in time, Junior would have a radically different moveset compared to when he was introduced in 4.

He would mainly utilise assets from Sunshine and NSMBDS for now, making for an interesting alternative take on a character at a different point in time.

He can use his magic paintbrush, as well as throw projectiles (shells) at his opponents.

I’ll just resubmit Junior again. He very nearly won last round, showing support for his inclusion in an alternate Brawl.

 

[TORNADO BUS DRIVER]

Geno
This was the time Sakurai considered putting him in. I think putting him now will give us an interesting direction to go from here .

 

[ssbashworld]

Similar logic as below but will try nominating a more recognizable series character. Where Sami is more popular & Nell is also worth mentioning feel like Andy is the most realistic option (with the others maybe being added later as an echo)

(Render by Harry Darlington?, found on archived Andy support thread & source unclear)

Rachel (Advance Wars Dual Strike - 2005)

Here me out. Doesnt make any sense over Andy, Sami, or Nell now but back then there is some logic. Like how she is the sister of Nell & has a similar design to Andy kind of meshing 2 popular choices. Days of Ruin is probably out too late (2008) meaning a rep from Dual Strike would be logical (plus game didnt comletely overhaul cast as much giving it better connection to full series.

Nintendo Wars in general at this point has many entries spanning most Nintendo platforms & has seen decent success especially after going international right before its slightly (at the time) more popular sister series at Intelligent Systems Fire Emblem which is already on the roster.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Geno
This was the time Sakurai considered putting him in. I think putting him now will give us an interesting direction to go from here .

Geno is owned by Square Enix, from what I know. This could mean we may have to replace either Snake or Sonic to allow Geno in, as those were the other two third party fighters in Brawl.

I’m not sure Geno would be allowed in this round.

 

[Qwerty UIOP]

Veteran: Meowth(Pokemon)

 

[TORNADO BUS DRIVER]

Geno is owned by Square Enix, from what I know. This could mean we may have to replace either Snake or Sonic to allow Geno in, as those were the other two third party fighters in Brawl.

I’m not sure Geno would be allowed in this round.

iirc there where no rules against another third party

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

job 22: Diddy Kong (Donkey Kong Country)

I will resubmit Diddy Kong

 

[TORNADO BUS DRIVER]

View attachment 390019
Diddy & Dixie
I know we have had solo Diddy submitted but this was an idea that they considered I'm free life and since we didn't add the Ice Climbers last time we still have room for a duo character. They would walk around together, and would be able to swap the leader in and out.

replacing Geno with this duo

 

[Pupp135]

iirc there where no rules against another third party

As a third third party is allowed, Geno is allowed if you would like to change your submission back to him.

 

[Louie G.]

I might sit out on nominating anything this round, because I really just want the next character to be Diddy Kong.

I do wonder though - if we vote for Diddy & Dixie, is that going to fill our final semiclone slot? I feel like it should. Even if Diddy and Dixie are fundamentally close to Ice Climbers in that they're both on stage and perhaps assist each other with attacks, swapping out the leader implies they will have different moveset quirks and stats to emphasize why you would pick one over the other. Like I said the other day, I feel like this might operate close to how Pyra and Mythra are differentiated if anything. Or maybe it would come down less to stat differences and more to simple moveset advantages like one character being better from a distance, one having more opportunities for finishing, recovering... you get the picture.

So that is to say I think a vote for these two should probably be a vote to round out the remainder of our newcomers. And if we aren't interested in that and decide against it, we play out our remaining semiclone vote as intended. Just something I was thinking about, feel free to let me know if you disagree but I think this would be the only way it really makes sense.

 

[TORNADO BUS DRIVER]

As a third third party is allowed, Geno is allowed if you would like to change your submission back to him.

Yeah

 

[Northsouthmap]

Chibi-Robo
The Smash series has always been associated with toys coming to life. It also helps that he nearly won a round a while back.

 

[Pupp135]

I might sit out on nominating anything this round, because I really just want the next character to be Diddy Kong.

I do wonder though - if we vote for Diddy & Dixie, is that going to fill our final semiclone slot? I feel like it should. Even if Diddy and Dixie are fundamentally close to Ice Climbers in that they're both on stage and perhaps assist each other with attacks, swapping out the leader implies they will have different moveset quirks and stats to emphasize why you would pick one over the other. Like I said the other day, I feel like this might operate close to how Pyra and Mythra are differentiated if anything. Or maybe it would come down less to stat differences and more to simple moveset advantages like one character being better from a distance, one having more opportunities for finishing, recovering... you get the picture.

So that is to say I think a vote for these two should probably be a vote to round out the remainder of our newcomers. And if we aren't interested in that and decide against it, we play out our remaining semiclone vote as intended. Just something I was thinking about, feel free to let me know if you disagree but I think this would be the only way it really makes sense.

I should note that I was planning to have Diddy and Dixie Kong only count for the unique slot in a similar vein to Ice Climbers. Because of the technical limitaions with Diddy and Dixie Kong in the actual timeline, I was assuming that they’d play something closer to Ice Climbers than the swapping mechanic planned in Brawl.

I’ll make your nomination Diddy and Dixie Kong if you’d like because Tornado Bus Driver moved his submission back to Geno.

 

[Louie G.]

I’ll make your nomination Diddy and Dixie Kong if you’d like because Tornado Bus Driver moved his submission back to Geno.

Sure, although hopefully it won’t cannibalize the votes for Diddy himself. People should just vote for both and put their preference first if they want Diddy Kong in the game.

And personally, if it’s alright I would rather have them count as two characters for my nomination with Dixie Kong fulfilling our remaining semiclone slot. Diddy Kong as a unique character and Dixie Kong as a semiclone.

While they would still function like Ice Climbers, with whoever is swapped in as the leader being controlled by the player and the other being an AI assist, Dixie Kong would require new animations and several different attacks than Diddy Kong. Elements like her ponytail and a couple new or differently functioning specials would require extra attention beyond Nana and Popo’s identical rigs and animation.

 

[Pupp135]

Here are the nominations

Pupp135 Ice Climbers
BritishGuy54 Bowser Jr.
TORNADO BUS DRIVER Geno
ssbashworld Andy
Qwerty UIOP Meowth
DragonRobotKing26 Diddy Kong
Northsouthmap Chibi Robo
Louie G. Diddy & Dixie Kong

Vote for your three most wanted, where yours is not first.

1. Diddy Kong
2. Ice Climbers
3. Diddy & Dixie Kong

Ice Climbers are my most wanted here, but I do feel guilty for not pushing for Diddy Kong earlier. I mostly prioritized standalone Diddy as I’m unsure how we’d approach Diddy and Dixie Kong after Brawl, but either version is cool with me.

Job 27: Vote for your three most wanted Melee Semi-Clones.

Spoiler: Eligible Fighters

Princess Daisy
Donkey Kong Jr.
Celica
Black Shadow
Falco
Pichu

1. Daisy
2. Falco
3. Black Shadow

These are the three semi-clones that I don’t see us trying to cut, and I just went off of preference.

 

[BritishGuy54]

1. Diddy Kong
2. Bowser Jr.
3. Chibi-Robo

Not much to add here. Diddy makes sense. Junior also does. And Chibi-Robo as a weirder pick.

1. Daisy
2. Pichu
3. Falco

I can vibe with Daisy returning. Falco also makes sense. But maybe it’s funny that Pichu could return too.

 

[TORNADO BUS DRIVER]

1. Diddy Kong
2. Mewoth
3. Andy

1. Black Shadow
2. Falco
3. Daisy

 

[Qwerty UIOP]

1. Geno
2. Meowth
3. Ice Climbers

1. Black Shadow
2. Falco
3. Daisy

 

[ssbashworld]

Chibi Robo
Andy
Meowth

Black Shadow
Falco
Pichu

 

[darkvortex]

1. Mewoth
2. Diddy Kong
3. Andy

1. Black Shadow
2. Falco
3. Daisy

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

1. Ice Climbers
2. Diddy Kong
3. Geno

1. Falco
2. Black Shadow
3. Daisy

 

[LoZ00]

Job #26
1. Diddy Kong: yeah, Diddy is probably the best possible newcomer out of the ones we haven't added yet. I'd rather have him alone instead of in a tag-team with Dixie because I think that these two characters could and should showcase their differences better if they are separate, unlike Ice Climbers where they are basically the same character but twice even in game.
2. Chibi-Robo: I'm always in when it comes to add newcomers from new series. And honestly Chibi-Robo fits Brawl so much! I think it'd be a very funny addition too, with its tiny size and unique cleaning antics.
3. Andy: again, new series joining Smash. Andy would be very interesting especially when put side by side with Snake. However, I'd rather have Sami instead, so he is only number 3.

Bowser Jr. came this close to be the number 3 choice for this job, but I don't want to encumber this roster with too many Mario characters, especially considering my first pick for Job #27, who is...

Job #27
1. Princess Daisy: yeah. Daisy makes a lot of sense. She could have some of her more unique sporty moves here in Brawl to help further distinguishing between her and Peach. I think she is the semiclone with the highest chance to stick, honestly.
2. Falco: not much to say. Falco could and should stick to the roster for the same reason why he sticked in OT Brawl. He is an iconic second character for the Star Fox series, I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be here.
3. Black Shadow: my heart would have said with Celica, but I don't want to have four Fire Emblem characters already in Brawl. So Black Shadow narrowly edged in, taking the spot that Ganondorf has in OT Brawl.

 

[Louie G.]

1. Diddy Kong
2. Diddy & Dixie
3. Meowth

There are a handful of characters I'd have liked to see sooner, but we've generally done a pretty good job avoiding truly glaring omissions. If we missed Diddy Kong, that streak would be ruined. He's pretty handily the most obvious character absent from the game. Whether he comes by himself or with Dixie in tow would be okay with me, although I don't think anyone should be letting what will happen in Smash 4 sway them one way or another. Both of them would have fully fleshed out movesets and just have the other tag along for support. If they needed to be split up the answer is as simple as separating them and then buffing their respective power output to accommodate for the loss of a companion.

Meowth gets the final nod because I'd be content seeing him return, and if for whatever reason we didn't add Diddy Kong I'd probably rather us just go all in and prioritize the absent veterans. Although Pokemon is in pretty good shape right now, so I don't think we need to go overboard. I like Bowser Jr too but I'd prioritize him a bit lower than these other two options. Everyone else... just not right now. Even though I'd like to see Chibi-Robo or Advance Wars get some attention, it feels like we missed the boat on that.

1. Falco
2. Black Shadow
3. Daisy

These are the three characters who most obviously feel like they have some room to grow or justification for returning right now. Pichu and Celica fall short because we've been seeing new faces from these series who would sooner take priority, and DK Jr. is kinda old news and arguably a bit redundant with Diddy around. We've all seen how Falco grows into a more distinguished character in Brawl, and I think that suits him. I think Black Shadow could also join this group similarly to our Melee Ganondorf, particularly since F-Zero GX was fairly recent and the game has emphasized bringing in rivals for several other mainstay series. I think he still fits pretty nicely and keeping him around lets us continue to maintain another unique flavor distinguished from reality.

Daisy is perhaps the most reasonable choice, and with her character growth throughout the Gamecube era it makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't be mad if this was how things played out... or furthermore, even just prioritizing her return next round over a new semiclone if she misses the boat here. She would probably see a pretty noteworthy shift in the way she is characterized and be given more raw power and physicality over Peach. But the other two just feel a bit more exciting on the front of continuing to diversify the roster, knowing very well that Mario has infinite space and time to grow while for a series like Star Fox or F-Zero this is pretty much the last time we can feel justified treating it like a big deal. Would be nice to continue to let these series get their flowers, both are active at this time and honestly I liked that Star Fox had three characters in Brawl despite being somewhat controversial at the time.

 

[TheLastMaverickHunter]

Diddy Kong
Geno
Diddy & Dixie

 

[Northsouthmap]

1. Diddy Kong
2. Bowser Jr.
3. Ice Climbers

1. Falco
2. Daisy
3. Black Shadow

 

[Pupp135]

Here are the votes
Ice Climbers 7
Bowser Jr. 4
Geno 6
Andy 5
Meowth 9
Diddy Kong 25
Chibi Robo 6
Diddy & Dixie Kong 4

Diddy King is the last unique newcomer.

Clones

Spoiler: Eligible Fighters

Princess Daisy 16
Donkey Kong Jr.
Celica
Black Shadow 19
Falco 22
Pichu 3

Falco and Black Shadow are added as veterans.

Job 28: Nominate a Semiclone.

I’ll nominate Toon Link as a Child Link was something missing in our Alternate Melee.

View attachment 390502
Toon Link
I think a second Link is something we could use. Toon Link would have his own moves here based on things from the Wind Waker and the DS games, mixed with normal Link things.

Job 29: Vote for your three most wanted veterans

Spoiler: Eligible Fighters

Mr. Game & Watch
Princess Daisy
Donkey Kong Jr.
Celica
Meowth
Mewtwo
Pichu

1. Mr. Game & Watch
2. Mewtwo
3. Meowth

Game & Watch is the only series to bring back at this point. Mewtwo and Meowth were chosen because a unique pokemon would probably be prioritized, and I just went with Mewtwo out of preference.

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

Job 28: Lucas (EarthBound)

I just think that Lucas is a neat,being a semi clone of Ness

 

[BritishGuy54]

Job 28:
Nothing to add here. I’ll just back the inclusion of Toon Link.

Job 29:
1. Daisy
2. Mr. Game & Watch
3. Meowth

Game & Watch makes sense. And I feel like Mario and Pokémon could both do with a veteran each.

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

1. Mr. Game & Watch
2. Daisy
3. Celica

 

[LoZ00]

For Job #28, I won't add a nomination since I wholeheartedly stand with Toon Link.

Job #29:
1. Meowth: it is the only veteran from Smash 64 that still has to come back. While I think it could be fun to explore a universe where the Original 12 are not safe, I still can't see Meowth getting the axe. Perhaps in Smash 4, but not in Brawl.
2. Princess Daisy: Mario could use another rep and Daisy fits the bill just perfectly. Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed she didn't come back in the previous round but, well, it is what it is. And besides, most of her personality came straight from the GC era, so it makes sense to add her as a somewhat decloned version of Peach.
3. Mr. G&W: I'm not a huge fan of the guy personally (and tbf, I am not a huge fan of many retro picks in general, bar R.O.B. and Little Mac), but it is the only series that risks to get shafted in the transition between Melee and Brawl.

Honestly, I can't see the other two semiclones, Celica, Pichu, and DK Jr., being brought back and I think there is some charm in Mewtwo getting cut in Brawl, as it added a lot of speculation and generated tons of interested when he was re-added back in Smash 4, so that's the reason why I went with these three fighters.

 

[Louie G.]

Hey Pupp135 , could we choose to bring back / nominate one of the Melee clones for the semiclone slot?

I'm not 100% on who I'd like to nominate right now, I'm contemplating Dixie Kong as well, but I don't see us using our remaining veteran slots on clones when G&W and the two Pokemon are still absent, and I think coming back in Brawl could do a lot for Daisy. So I'm somewhat inclined to nominate her and simply opt to sacrifice one newcomer for the sake of letting another veteran evolve further.

In general I'd like to leave that open for ourselves, if we want to snub a newcomer for a veteran or vice versa, cut more characters for the sake of more newcomers etc. Not sure how to handle that in an organized fashion but it might be a good idea to establish that option further for the next couple games.