SmashBoards Community Echo Voting Thread: Part 48 Shulk

[fogbadge]

You could say the same thing about Daisy, yet here we are. Zeraora is my favorite Pokemon that isn't a grass type, and I think it would fit him pretty well. This isn't me just not caring about Zeraora enough to see it being wrong. Remember- animations can change with echo fighters. The only thing that stays the same is the general idea of the moveset. They could also change his neutral B from Lucario's to make it more of a physical attack, if they needed to.

is just a case of animations and speeding him up and replacing aura with electricity zerozora is supposed to attack with his claws and quite viciously it wouldnt look right for him to be punching and kicking like lucario does

 

[Tetrin]

The only thing that makes Lucario's moves "aura-like" is the visual effects over them, the actual animations are fairly standard punches and kicks, just with open palms. The only thing that is truly a special attack the Smash Lucario uses is Aura Sphere. Lucario doesn't LOOK like a special attacker. Lots of people probably think Lucario is a physical attacker. All of the other moves' aura effects could be replaced with electricity, even if they had the exact same range it would look right. It works for Pikachu. Neutral B I could understand, but Sakurai has never been a stickler for keeping pokemon 100% accurate to their canon moveset in Pokemon. He could easily just be given Zap Cannon and have it function practically the same.

Lucario is literally the aura pokemon. He's known for his aura, and it's pretty hard to make your fist-fighting aura based since that's authentically special-like. Also, I'm pretty sure anyone who knows that Pokemon can be either physical and special attackers would be able to guess Lucario's a special attacker based on how he fights instead of how he looks. Zeraora could be very functionally different with plasma fists as neutral b, wild charge as a forward b, charge as a down b, and having similar physicals can be easily changed. Understandably Sakurai doesn't want literal carbon copies and changes some things, but saying he could just "easily be given" something that can be similar is kind of a moot point if he could "easily be given" a move that's entirely unique. Volt tackle could also be a dash attack, and I'd assume his recovery would mimic Pikachu's more than Lucario's. He'd be better off a unique fighter imo.

You could say the same thing about Daisy, yet here we are. Zeraora is my favorite Pokemon that isn't a grass type, and I think it would fit him pretty well. This isn't me just not caring about Zeraora enough to see it being wrong. Remember- animations can change with echo fighters. The only thing that stays the same is the general idea of the moveset. They could also change his neutral B from Lucario's to make it more of a physical attack, if they needed to.

Daisy was just difficult to implement uniquely since she's generally unimportant to mainline Mario. It wouldn't make sense for her to be a unique fighter because she's only ever prominent in spin-off titles that wouldn't work so well when it came to specials. A one-off princess whose only time to shine is in games like Mario Kart and Mario Tennis isn't really enough to warrant a unique slot, so having her as an echo would probably be best.

Also you can't say the same thing about Daisy anyway since the closest thing she's come to ever actually fighting is in Tennis or Mario Party. Those really aren't fair assessments of whether or not she should be a fighter given her entire fight style is largely jump or passive-aggressively bump into someone.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Lucario is literally the aura pokemon. He's known for his aura, and it's pretty hard to make your fist-fighting aura based since that's authentically special-like. Also, I'm pretty sure anyone who knows that Pokemon can be either physical and special attackers would be able to guess Lucario's a special attacker based on how he fights instead of how he looks. Zeraora could be very functionally different with plasma fists as neutral b, wild charge as a forward b, charge as a down b, and having similar physicals can be easily changed. Understandably Sakurai doesn't want literal carbon copies and changes some things, but saying he could just "easily be given" something that can be similar is kind of a moot point if he could "easily be given" a move that's entirely unique. Volt tackle could also be a dash attack, and I'd assume his recovery would mimic Pikachu's more than Lucario's. He'd be better off a unique fighter imo.


Daisy was just difficult to implement uniquely since she's generally unimportant to mainline Mario. It wouldn't make sense for her to be a unique fighter because she's only ever prominent in spin-off titles that wouldn't work so well when it came to specials. A one-off princess whose only time to shine is in games like Mario Kart and Mario Tennis isn't really enough to warrant a unique slot, so having her as an echo would probably be best.

Also you can't say the same thing about Daisy anyway since the closest thing she's come to ever actually fighting is in Tennis or Mario Party. Those really aren't fair assessments of whether or not she should be a fighter given her entire fight style is largely jump or passive-aggressively bump into someone.

There's a lot more you could do to differentiate Daisy, though. And they didn't. Why does she pull turnips and float, like Daisy? She's never done either of those. Why does she have a frying pan? Just because a character COULD be unique doesn't mean that they HAVE to. Dark Pit could've been a unique character. So could Lucina. So could Daisy.

He couldn't easily be given a move that's entirely unique, because that takes significantly more time to code. A slight change to an existing move COULD easily be given to him. Also, he could have Pikachu's up-b and still be an echo fighter of Lucario. Look at Chrom. There's no reason Zeraora couldn't be an echo fighter, there's only reasons why he could be unique. I agree! He could be unique, but that doesn't mean he should be. Lucario needs an echo fighter, because just like Marth/Roy, he's got a gimmick that could stand to be removed. Zeraora is easily the best choice for it, by far.

 

[Tetrin]

There's a lot more you could do to differentiate Daisy, though. And they didn't. Why does she pull turnips and float, like Daisy? She's never done either of those. Why does she have a frying pan? Just because a character COULD be unique doesn't mean that they HAVE to. Dark Pit could've been a unique character. So could Lucina. So could Daisy.

He couldn't easily be given a move that's entirely unique, because that takes significantly more time to code. A slight change to an existing move COULD easily be given to him. Also, he could have Pikachu's up-b and still be an echo fighter of Lucario. Look at Chrom. There's no reason Zeraora couldn't be an echo fighter, there's only reasons why he could be unique. I agree! He could be unique, but that doesn't mean he should be. Lucario needs an echo fighter, because just like Marth/Roy, he's got a gimmick that could stand to be removed. Zeraora is easily the best choice for it, by far.

The thing is, Daisy couldn't. Like I said, Daisy only appears in one mainline Mario game and doesn't fight there at all. Her only options would be from sports games, which by their very nature, depersonalize practically every character (you can't say Peach is the same in both series). It's not authentically Daisy because there's no such thing as authentically Daisy; she's a character only known for being like Peach but of Sarasa Land and a different logo. She has absolutely no character and it'd be pointless fabricating a moveset for someone who doesn't fight apart from jumping and hitting people with the same sports equipment, which would seem like a repetitive and quite frankly tasteless moveset.

The thing is, it doesn't matter. I'll admit we can't say anything is truly Zeraora-like by nature since he isn't even available yet, but electricity and aura are fundamentally different. The only thing I can see being similar is charge, which can be worked around since charge doesn't even work like you'd expect in Pokemon. Electric types are generally quick and physical, which is already a pretty massive difference from Lucario's moveset. Their similar stature would lead to some similarities in their physical attacks, but there's only so varied you can get with those when it comes to similar physique. Plus, being easy to code isn't the only thing accounted for in a moveset. Forcing ingenuine moves upon a character is kind of like shoving the idea of echo fighters down your throat; echoes should be created when original movesets are completely far-fetched. It's unlike electric types in general to be floaty and have a gauge of aura. Zeraora should just fight more so like an electric type in general, there's no reason to forcibly bend him to match an existing character.

 

[Mastermiine]

I think this shouldn't be daily, maybe 2 to 4 days instead? It gives us more time to discuss things and vote.

Sure, works for me.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

The thing is, Daisy couldn't. Like I said, Daisy only appears in one mainline Mario game and doesn't fight there at all. Her only options would be from sports games, which by their very nature, depersonalize practically every character (you can't say Peach is the same in both series). It's not authentically Daisy because there's no such thing as authentically Daisy; she's a character only known for being like Peach but of Sarasa Land and a different logo. She has absolutely no character and it'd be pointless fabricating a moveset for someone who doesn't fight apart from jumping and hitting people with the same sports equipment, which would seem like a repetitive and quite frankly tasteless moveset.

The thing is, it doesn't matter. I'll admit we can't say anything is truly Zeraora-like by nature since he isn't even available yet, but electricity and aura are fundamentally different. The only thing I can see being similar is charge, which can be worked around since charge doesn't even work like you'd expect in Pokemon. Electric types are generally quick and physical, which is already a pretty massive difference from Lucario's moveset. Their similar stature would lead to some similarities in their physical attacks, but there's only so varied you can get with those when it comes to similar physique. Plus, being easy to code isn't the only thing accounted for in a moveset. Forcing ingenuine moves upon a character is kind of like shoving the idea of echo fighters down your throat; echoes should be created when original movesets are completely far-fetched. It's unlike electric types in general to be floaty and have a gauge of aura. Zeraora should just fight more so like an electric type in general, there's no reason to forcibly bend him to match an existing character.

Daisy might not have been able to be unique, but they very easily could have made her more different from Peach. Taking things from SML and giving her those? Such as the bouncy ball powerup, or referencing some Sarasaland enemies instead of toad and turnips?

Also, maybe we just see Lucario differently, but in Smash, he IS quick and physical. Greninja and Lucario are both characters I'd describe as fast physical characters, with one projectile and a few spacing moves. Zeraora would be the same thing if you ask me. Floaty doesn't mean slow. Zeraora doesn't have to have a gauge of aura, that's the point of echo fighters. Get rid of the whole rage mechanic so he's different and also more accurate.

 

[Tetrin]

Daisy might not have been able to be unique, but they very easily could have made her more different from Peach. Taking things from SML and giving her those? Such as the bouncy ball powerup, or referencing some Sarasaland enemies instead of toad and turnips?

Also, maybe we just see Lucario differently, but in Smash, he IS quick and physical. Greninja and Lucario are both characters I'd describe as fast physical characters, with one projectile and a few spacing moves. Zeraora would be the same thing if you ask me. Floaty doesn't mean slow. Zeraora doesn't have to have a gauge of aura, that's the point of echo fighters. Get rid of the whole rage mechanic so he's different and also more accurate.

Sarasa Land wasn't nearly developed enough to give Daisy a moveset, and she'd at best be a semi clone. An echo was objectively easier since Daisy has no character behind her, and she wasn't even a hugely requested character so going out of your way to make her unique is a waste of time imo.

Also, Lucario is definitely not a fast fighter in Smash. I think even you know it's a bit of a stretch, considering Donkey Kong even runs faster than him. I never said floaty meant slow, I know they're two different things. Lucario is just floaty AND slow. He doesn't use aura and therefore wouldn't use rage. His very foundation is already different. Special attacking is something I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on, but Lucario's moveset is notably revolved around his specials and aura attacks, that's the way I see it.

 

[3DSNinja]

Yeah Goku fits Lucario way better then Zerora. Just change side -b to Ki Blasts and Down-b to Force Palm.

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

Riolu or Aparoid

Apariod can charge blasts and float

For i nominate

Virtual Boy and WALL-E

 

[Mastermiine]

New Poll is up! Discuss in the comments below!

Toon Link is next!

 

[SmasherMaster]

New Poll is up! Discuss in the comments below!

Toon Link is next!

Lucario says Zoroark won, but didn't Zeraora? Nominating Tetra as a Toon Link echo. Then we could ship every Link with a Zelda.
Can't decide between Labo Robot or Ancient Minister. I'm going to wait until later.

 

[Sari]

Voted Ancient Minister for R.O.B.

For Toon Link I nominate Engineer Link from Spirit Tracks. Basically a heaver/stronger version of Toon Link similar to Dr. Mario that could maybe even utilize some elements from Spirit Tracks.

 

[Mastermiine]

Lucario says Zoroark won, but didn't Zeraora? Nominating Tetra as a Toon Link echo. Then we could ship every Link with a Zelda.
Can't decide between Labo Robot or Ancient Minister. I'm going to wait until later.

Thanks, my mistake. I'll see if I can fix it after my 8 hour work shift + after my homework...

Or maybe the next day...

 

[fogbadge]

voted for direct-i, btw what are you guys referring to by labo robot i cant think of any that r.o.b. esc

as for toon link i nominate shadow link

 

[shocktarts17]

Ancient Minister is really the only choice here, not only does he have a great reason to fight like R.O.B. but it would do the added bonus of bringing an original Smash Bros character to the roster.

I guess I'll nominate Ravio though I really hope he isn't an echo.

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

I voted for Virtual boy

 

[fleshdude.gov]

I’d like to nominate Minish Cap Link as a Toon Link echo. The only real differences would be the taunts, which now feature Ezio more prominently, and the neutral b, which would have Link turn into his Picori form and essentially be an extreme version of the Mini Mushroom with a cooldown.

Also, yeah, the Ancient Minister is really the only one on this list that actually shares ROB’s body type, which is necessary for them to be an echo fighter in the first place.

 

[shocktarts17]

I’d like to nominate Minish Cap Link as a Toon Link echo. The only real differences would be the taunts, which now feature Ezio more prominently, and the neutral b, which would have Link turn into his Picori form and essentially be an extreme version of the Mini Mushroom with a cooldown.

Also, yeah, the Ancient Minister is really the only one on this list that actually shares ROB’s body type, which is necessary for them to be an echo fighter in the first place.

lol why would you want to be shrunk? Wouldn't that be a pretty huge nerf?

 

[fleshdude.gov]

lol why would you want to be shrunk? Wouldn't that be a pretty huge nerf?

It makes you harder to hit, and could maybe make you able you float in the air due to being so light?

 

[shocktarts17]

It makes you harder to hit, and could maybe make you able you float in the air due to being so light?

Hmm I always hated getting the mini mushroom because it makes you so easy to launch but I guess I could see that.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'm nominating the Masked Man (Mother 3) as Toon Link's echo. They're both similarly proportioned sword users (Who both even happen to be left handed). Anything that doesn't work from Toon Link can be borrowed from Lucas.

 

[3DSNinja]

I nom four Swords Adventures Link. Just change taunts to four Sword and 'there ya go

 

[Saetanigera]

Why no option for GLaDOS?

 

[shocktarts17]

Why no option for GLaDOS?

Someone has to have nominated them, and as much as I like GLaDOS I'm not exactly sure how she would work other than being a robot.

 

[fogbadge]

Someone has to have nominated them, and as much as I like GLaDOS I'm not exactly sure how she would work other than being a robot.

theres a bit of a pattern of that with this thread

 

[Scottfrankd]

I'd probably go with Ancient Minister, but that's just because the other choices seem like stretches to me.
I guess his aerials and specials that involve his arms could act a bit different, since they would be hidden away by the cloak.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Ooh, forgot to post yesterday - don't worry, I’m still voting.

I don’t really think ROB has a viable echo. Ancient Minister would make a great costume - they are literally the same character after all.

For Tink...again it’s tough. Tetra’s the obvious choice, but she’s never been seen doing anything remotely like him.

 

[fogbadge]

Ooh, forgot to post yesterday - don't worry, I’m still voting.

I don’t really think ROB has a viable echo. Ancient Minister would make a great costume - they are literally the same character after all.

For Tink...again it’s tough. Tetra’s the obvious choice, but she’s never been seen doing anything remotely like him.

well thats what happened with ganondorf

 

[FancySmash]

I think the Ancient Minister is the best choice.

We can't 100% confirm that the Ancient Minister is the same ROB as the SSB4 ROB and Ultimate ROB, as ROB now changes his default color depending on the region. Maybe in Japan, where ROB is still Famicom colored, Ancient Minister is still the same ROB, but it's less likely for regions where the color scheme is SNES. Just saying, Ancient Minister was a Famicom ROB.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I voted no viable echo. None of them have the same body type.

For T. Link, I nominate Tingle and Train Link. Nobody could really be an echo of Toon Link, his design is too unique, but Tingle is pretty close and could plausibly use a sword. Train Link would be the same thing just in a different outfit, and he has a train final smash?

 

[fogbadge]

I voted no viable echo. None of them have the same body type.

For T. Link, I nominate Tingle and Train Link. Nobody could really be an echo of Toon Link, his design is too unique, but Tingle is pretty close and could plausibly use a sword. Train Link would be the same thing just in a different outfit, and he has a train final smash?

thats not true the direct eye has the same body type

 

[PeridotGX]

I voted no viable echo. None of them have the same body type.

For T. Link, I nominate Tingle and Train Link. Nobody could really be an echo of Toon Link, his design is too unique, but Tingle is pretty close and could plausibly use a sword. Train Link would be the same thing just in a different outfit, and he has a train final smash?

I don't know, the Masked Man looks like he'd fit Toon Link (proportionally). Plus they have very different personalities, which would make them feel very different.

 

[Pizza Robo]

I voted for No Echo and Nominate Ravio for Toon Link Echo

 

[lordvaati]

I think the Ancient Minister is the best choice.

We can't 100% confirm that the Ancient Minister is the same ROB as the SSB4 ROB and Ultimate ROB, as ROB now changes his default color depending on the region. Maybe in Japan, where ROB is still Famicom colored, Ancient Minister is still the same ROB, but it's less likely for regions where the color scheme is SNES. Just saying, Ancient Minister was a Famicom ROB.

The game heavily hints it's the same ROB. Think of the color dispute as a similar situation to the Blue/Green Rival name issues with Pokemon.

 

[FancySmash]

The game heavily hints it's the same ROB. Think of the color dispute as a similar situation to the Blue/Green Rival name issues with Pokemon.
View attachment 187474

Hmm, that's true. And even then, I suppose you could always repaint a ROB.

 

[EarlTamm]

The game heavily hints it's the same ROB. Think of the color dispute as a similar situation to the Blue/Green Rival name issues with Pokemon.
View attachment 187474

If I recall, the Ancient Minister actually does have a spirit in spirits mode, which would mean that there is another AM out there somewhere.

 

[fogbadge]

i voted for shadow link engineer and minish link feel like they ought to be costumes and i think ravio would look odd being that short

now wolf nominees well i guess the other members of star wolf make the most sense so ill suggest leon

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

I voted for Tetra (like with Ganondorf and Falcon) as for Wolf

now wolf nominees well i guess the other members of star wolf make the most sense so ill suggest leon

I know enough about Star Fox that i know this doesn't work, Leon is more of a Falco echo.

So i nominate Panther Coroso

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I guess Tetra would be closest, but we really don't need another Link clone, particularly one who isn't Link. I'm voting nothing viable here.

I'll second the nom for Panther as a Wolf echo, that'd probably fit the best.

 

[fogbadge]

I voted for Tetra (like with Ganondorf and Falcon) as for Wolf

I know enough about Star Fox that i know this doesn't work, Leon is more of a Falco echo.

doesnt falco use his beak? its not a natural fit i admit but i think it makes a little more sense than falco