Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

[Paperchampion23]

People who call the Box Theory "bull****" and say it "lacks evidence" will be legally prohibited from complaining when it turns out we only have two more characters.

Okay not that i have a problem with the box theory or anything, but why do people defend it so much? Box theory defenders have literally nothing to gain out of it, other than being right. At least if you are against the theory, you are for the idea that there are more than 2 characters, which literally benefits everyone.

I just find it weird that people defend it like it's going to be this awesome feeling if it turns out to be true lol. Not saying you, but there are a lot of people like this, when everybody should be hoping the Box theory ISNT true.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

"Ahhh yes I can't complain because I believed in another theory that said we would get more characters"
Geez man do you see the hypocrisy?
People have the right to complain too, I mean I wouldn't feel so good with Ken and Incineroar being the last base newcomers and not getting Geno/Isaac/Banjo.

???

That problem falls on you dude. You got your hopes up by not believing box theory, and you are the one who will be disappointed if it comes true.

 

[Megadoomer]

"Ahhh yes I can't complain because I believed in another theory that said we would get more characters"
Geez man do you see the hypocrisy?
People have the right to complain too, I mean I wouldn't feel so good with Ken and Incineroar being the last base newcomers and not getting Geno/Isaac/Banjo.

It seems excessive to say that anyone who believes the box theory (and Vergeben's leaks, which heavily overlap with it) is not allowed to be happy if we get more than just Ken and Incineroar. Seemingly every Smash game has had a disappointing ending because the developers left out a bunch of characters that people wanted; trying to temper your expectations shouldn't be a bad thing, particularly when the alternative usually leads to complaining about the developers not trying to please every single person at once.

There's always going to be some character left out - they don't have infinite resources and development time to add every single character into the game, and once a character gets added, fans will move on to another character and complain when that one gets left out.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Okay not that i have a problem with the box theory or anything, but why do people defend it so much? Box theory defenders have literally nothing to gain out of it, other than being right. At least if you are against the theory, you are for the idea that there are more than 2 characters, which literally benefits everyone.

I just find it weird that people defend it like it's going to be this awesome feeling if it turns out to be true lol. Not saying you, but there are a lot of people like this, when everybody should be hoping the Box theory ISNT true.

Mayne not pretaining to this specific situation, but most box theorists are just trying to temper expectations. And many get defensive because they are called idiots or whatever for beleiving it.

Not saying you or anyone recently but I've received a lot of resistance just for tempering my expectations.

 

[Ignoritus]

The one thing no one has answered for me about the box theory is what exactly they were going to do if there was, say, another full or partial row of characters. Leave a massive blank space at the bottom that would be be even more conspicuous?

trying to temper your expectations shouldn't be a bad thing, particularly when the alternative usually leads to complaining about the developers not trying to please every single person at once.

The problem isn't people tempering their expectations, the problem is people pushing the box theory over-aggressively and getting really stuck up about other people not believing it when a variety of people have already poked a plethora of potential holes in the theory.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay not that i have a problem with the box theory or anything, but why do people defend it so much? Box theory defenders have literally nothing to gain out of it, other than being right. At least if you are against the theory, you are for the idea that there are more than 2 characters, which literally benefits everyone.

I just find it weird that people defend it like it's going to be this awesome feeling if it turns out to be true lol. Not saying you, but there are a lot of people like this, when everybody should be hoping the Box theory ISNT true.

As I posted earlier, some people just really like the feeling of being right and get invested in defending their predictions. Others are believing it because it's easier to believe something disappointing will happen than it is to get one's hopes up only to be potentially let down.

That's my take on it, anyway.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Okay not that i have a problem with the box theory or anything, but why do people defend it so much? Box theory defenders have literally nothing to gain out of it, other than being right. At least if you are against the theory, you are for the idea that there are more than 2 characters, which literally benefits everyone.

I just find it weird that people defend it like it's going to be this awesome feeling if it turns out to be true lol. Not saying you, but there are a lot of people like this, when everybody should be hoping the Box theory ISNT true.

Let me just pull up this old post:

From the standpoint of someone who was a part of Sm4sh speculation, it's scary to see people get their hopes up like this. People vehemently denying Box Theory or discrediting Vergeben solely because they want more, or they want something different. I experienced similar things occur during Sm4sh speculation. When Gematsu became big people doubted it because it didn't have Ridley or K. Rool or Dixie. Fake leaks like Tower of Smash got attention solely because they contained popular characters and entertained the idea of characters being unlocked if you communicated between the two versions, which allowed fans to continue "speculation" (or keep their hopes alive instead of accepting reality). I also refuse to let people forget that the fanbase took "RIDLEY IS IN THE CLOUDS" seriously, because that's absolutely ridiculous.

Guess what happened when the ESRB leak came out and the Shulk trailer confirmed it a week after?

Chaos. I often go to the example of a user cursing out the entire leaks group, and most of us remember how hated Dark Pit was at the time, as many saw him stealing a roster spot from their character (if there's one thing to be happy about, it's that this argument is all but dead this speculation cycle). Fans of the Duck Hunt Dog remember the ire drawn towards their character because he was the last to be officially revealed, and he wasn't a popular character. Now that we have hindsight, we can realize that Dark Pit was an easy clone to make, and that the Duck Hunt Dog is an iconic Nintendo character, but at the time all that some fans could see is red, and those fans were very loud and caused a lot of chaos in the community.

Expectations are a very dangerous thing. It's why I've made an active effort to address people whenever they say "I expect x" or "y is a shoe-in," because no character is a lock for this game until they are confirmed. Its the same with any theory or leak. The only reason I back box theory is due to the evidence provided, and the fact that any argument against it is as flimsy as cardboard. Of course, box theory itself is based on hypotheticals, but the way that they all come together perfectly makes me inclined to not call it coincidence. When I see people try to dispute it with "Incineroar and Ken can't be our next reveal" or "Sakurai always trolls his fans, there's sure to be more" or making other straw grasps to disprove it I see this speculation scene going down that same route that Sm4sh speculation did, and I don't want that. Especially because this speculation cycle has gotten a lot of people's hopes up for their favorite character, and I can all-too-clearly see those hopes crashing down when the full roster leaks, leading to something worse than the post-ESRB fallout for Sm4sh.

Mind you, it's okay if you don't want to believe box theory. If you want more characters, power to you. I also agree that those who are trying to temper expectations for the sake of the fandom shouldn't be so quick to jump at others. However, if you're going to try to disprove box theory, or argue that we're going to get more characters, you should have an actual argument. I mean examples, excerpts from Sakurai's interviews, parallels with previous speculation cycles (which shouldn't be used as concrete proof like they have been because this is a different speculation cycle, it's a precedent, and doesn't mean much), references to previous game's files, Nintendo's inner workings or current direction, etc. Not just "Sakurai always does this" or "x character isn't in this so I'm not going to believe it." Those are opinions. Not arguments. There's a difference.

Also, if you're going to swing at box theory, I expect an argument comparable to the one laid out for it, which I still have yet to see. All I've seen so far is a disconnected set of hypotheticals varying in quality, none of which compare to the connected evidence for box theory. I also dislike the vindictiveness of those who oppose box theory. I've seen people here, on this website, get hate thrown at them solely for playing Devil's Advocate. Not even supporting box theory, but just saying why it may be true, and getting hate and incredulity thrown at them because of that. This is speculation for a video game on the internet, not a violent political argument or epic battle for truth where one side needs to obliterate the other. While we're at it, no, blog theory is not valid evidence of more characters.

Like, can we just agree to disagree and drop the topic? If you don't believe box theory, fine, but just don't get your hopes up for 5-7 more characters. If you believe box theory, great, I say always plan for the worst and hope for the best, so whatever happens'll just happen. At this point fixation and confirmation bias have kicked in and neither side is going to convince the other of anything, so what's the point?

People need to consider the possibility that box theory is true, otherwise they'll get their hopes up only for them to come crashing down on them. What do they do then? Complain on the internet of course. In this day and age I wouldn't be surprised if we see some death threats sent out too (a couple of those were sent to Sakurai and his team in the wake of Sm4sh's roster being revealed if I remember correctly).

I don't want to see our fanbase resort to that again.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

I personally don't believe in the box theory since the box is an obvious placeholder, but as I've said before it's better to keep expectations at a reasonable level. I'd personally be fine with the roster we have now.

 

[Nameless Kot]

???

That problem falls on you dude. You got your hopes up by not believing box theory, and you are the one who will be disappointed if it comes true.

Yeah, so what? People have the right to believe in any theory they want to. If the box theory ends up being true, I will express my dissapointment, of course, in a civilized way. Sounds like some Box theory supporters want everybody to believe in it just to feel intellectually superior

 

[RC-3197]

Let me just pull up this old post:

People need to consider the possibility that box theory is true, otherwise they'll get their hopes up only for them to come crashing down on them. What do they do then? Complain on the internet of course. In this day and age I wouldn't be surprised if we see some death threats sent out too (a couple of those were sent to Sakurai and his team in the wake of Sm4sh's roster being revealed if I remember correctly).

I don't want to see our fanbase resort to that again.

What are you supposed to be? The hype police? Just let people believe what they want to believe dude, you shouldn't make it your goal to lower everyone's expectations.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Well, time for a fake leak?

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432968426

Supposedly a debugger who once worked for Microsoft and now work for Nintendo. First work was for Skyward Sword and now is working for Ultimate.
He seems to mostly work on stage debugging/Testing.

While I don't believe him at all, the explanation about how the testing happens is... realistic for a fact.

Probably fake but Hey! Better than the usual fake leaks and can be entertaining!

Seems like the classic fake leak thing to do, "act like I don't know about video games so I seem more believable", when realistically anyone would know a Minecraft or Undertale stage by sight, and should probably be able to guess that it's Banjo-Kazooie. Coincidentally they are able to describe the stages in such a way that they are immediately recognizable to people who actually know about video games.

 

[AngrySun88]

My problem with people who support the box theory is that they're usually aggressive and condescending about it, as if trying to force it on everyone else.

We get trying to keep expectations low, but stop treating it like a religion and forcing it on everyone else. Let people believe their own theories in peace.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Well, time for a fake leak?

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432968426

Supposedly a debugger who once worked for Microsoft and now work for Nintendo. First work was for Skyward Sword and now is working for Ultimate.
He seems to mostly work on stage debugging/Testing.

While I don't believe him at all, the explanation about how the testing happens is... realistic for a fact.

Probably fake but Hey! Better than the usual fake leaks and can be entertaining!

Undertale Stage?
Yeah no...

 

[Darkurai]

My problem with people who support the box theory is that they're usually aggressive and condescending about it, as if trying to force it on everyone else.

We get trying to keep expectations low, but stop treating it like a religion and forcing it on everyone else. Let people believe their own theories in peace.

This is true of the internet as a whole, I think. I've seen supporters of box theory act like this, and I've seen opponents act like this. It's simply the nature of things. I remember seeing it ten years ago with Brawl's "nightmare roster", I saw it four years ago with the ESRB leak, and I don't think we'll ever stop seeing it.

 

[Nekoo]

Are we seriously fighting for the Box theory again?
At worst, it just mean we get three newcomers.
At best, it basically Lock Ken because of Corrin's mistake placement and we might get more nontheless.


What's so hard to understand about that? We know that in ALL case we're getting three fighters MINIMUM. Incineroar, Ken, Square-Enix character.
However, it's still important to get a considerable expectation, two month before the game release and not think we will get like, 3 more echoes and 6 newcomers.
The lower you'll get your expectation, the hypest the reveals will be once that theory is wrong if you believe it.

It's a win/win situation.

Because, I feel like we might get another "K.Rool/Wolf is a lock DLC in Smash 4" or "Ridley is totally in Base Smash 4" situation and people will just whine and complain online because they decided to set their expectation too high.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Yeah, so what? People have the right to believe in any theory they want to. If the box theory ends up being true, I will express my dissapointment, of course, in a civilized way. Sounds like some Box theory supporters want everybody to believe in it just to feel intellectually superior

Again, great for you. I trust most people here on Smashboards will be able to respond to disappointment well. I say most because I can assure you that we will see salt here regardless

Other sites? No way that's happening. GameFAQs is already a salt mine as it is, and would only get worse. r/SmashBros is desperate for anything disproving box theory, and would implode if it came true, And 4chan? Well, it's 4chan; I feel like they'd laugh at the whole situation (specifically the salt and the character disconfirmations) more than anything else.

I'd prefer not to be associated with people who sent actual death threats to people, including Sakurai, Reggie, and Bill Trinnen (I'm sure we'd also see some people cursing Iwata because why not?) because their favorite character didn't get in by the fact that I was in the same fanbase as them. The Smash community is already mocked enough as is, the last thing we need is more fodder for ridicule.

My problem with people who support the box theory is that they're usually aggressive and condescending about it, as if trying to force it on everyone else.

We get trying to keep expectations low, but stop treating it like a religion and forcing it on everyone else. Let people believe their own theories in peace.

That's pretty funny, because I bring up box theory, give a reasonable argument, and get insulted for it. I'm not the only one here who's had this happen to me as well.

I don't even believe box theory that much. I just think we should all consider the possibility of it, but I get called an ass and have condescending comment after comment thrown my way. Don't even pretend like you're believing your theories "in peace" because most of you aren't.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I've noticed that Black Shadow has been appearing more and more in those fake 4chan leaks this past week.
Why is he trending exactly?

I mean, I like him somehow, but I really don't think he would work as a character. As a falcon echo, he would be fast, wouldn't he? Melee Ganon-like characters aren't branded as echoes/clones anymore. If they make him a slow falcon...well... ganon already does this well.

I tend to believe that any leak containing him is probably fake after trying to figure out how he would play.

It probably stems from the Prima leak which had him listed as Echo. The only point I can make for Black Shadow is that the elbow smash is gone for both Falcon and Ganondorf (as well as Ganon’s unique up smash) which makes me think BS could get said moves instead. It’s an awkward situation where’ve had a slower, heavier Falcon for years so what need have we for another one, but you never know what Sakurai might do. The more villains the better I always say.

 

[RC-3197]

Other sites? No way that's happening. GameFAQs is already a salt mine as it is, r/SmashBros is desperate for anything disproving box theory, and 4chan, well, it's 4chan; I feel like they'd laugh at the whole situation more than anything else.

Why do you take this out on the people here? It accomplishes nothing to actively try to lower everyone's expectations.

 

[CosmicQuark]

???

That problem falls on you dude. You got your hopes up by not believing box theory, and you are the one who will be disappointed if it comes true.

A person does not need to believe in the box theory to lower their expectations. For me, box theory has many problems, which is why I don't think it's useful, to me, to treat placeholder art as if it gave any indication to the final roster count (others are free to do so if they wish). But I'm still going in with low expectations (lowered even further given--certain rumors). That also means I can separate those from my hopes--I hope we get more characters, and I can see a logical way they could reveal characters in the time we have left. Those two trains of thought are not mutually exclusive. I see no problem in keeping my expectations low and my hopes high, so long as I don't conflate the two.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Let me just pull up this old post:

People need to consider the possibility that box theory is true, otherwise they'll get their hopes up only for them to come crashing down on them. What do they do then? Complain on the internet of course. In this day and age I wouldn't be surprised if we see some death threats sent out too (a couple of those were sent to Sakurai and his team in the wake of Sm4sh's roster being revealed if I remember correctly).

I don't want to see our fanbase resort to that again.

Don't worry I'm definitely not talking about lowering expectations. I totally get that. I'm talking about some people who are just defending the theory because they believe it's right and think it's gospel.

I think we need to come to terms that it doesn't have any hard proof it's right, but the same goes for people against it. There's just no telling until we get more character reveals to prove or disprove it. I just hate the negativity around it, is all I mean.

 

[Nekoo]

I'd prefer not to be associated with people who sent death threats to people because their favorite character didn't get in by the fact that I was in the same fanbase as them. The Smash community is already mocked enough as is, the last thing we need is more fodder for ridicule.

Bless you for saying this.

I'll say it one more time, but to ANY "highly requested" characters fan. LOWER you expectation and THINK outside of the Smash Community.
Whenever you're a Skull Kid fan, Bandana fan, Geno fan, Isaac fan, Banjo fan.
Lower it. Don't say that your character "Deserve" a spot more than an other, that "That characters stole a spot", or be mad about other characters getting in. Don't put other's people characters down because you believe yours is better.

We're in a point, where literally every video games characters can join Smash Bros. It's not a question of serie representation, spot or whatever anymore, we've been past that ever since Smash 4 DLC.

Whenever the Music Theory is right, the Blog theory is right or the Box theory is right.

Don't whine and be disrespectful like dumb childrens. Last EVO already made us the laughing stock of the FIghting Games community, the video game community already see us as dumb BECAUSE of all of the rosterfagging.

Don't make it worst.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I've noticed that Black Shadow has been appearing more and more in those fake 4chan leaks this past week.
Why is he trending exactly?

I mean, I like him somehow, but I really don't think he would work as a character. As a falcon echo, he would be fast, wouldn't he? Melee Ganon-like characters aren't branded as echoes/clones anymore. If they make him a slow falcon...well... ganon already does this well.

I tend to believe that any leak containing him is probably fake after trying to figure out how he would play.

Yeah, I don't understand why people keep putting Black Shadow in their fake leaks. F-Zero hasn't had a new game in nearly 15 years... why do people assume it's getting a new character over current ongoing franchises like Kirby and Star Fox?
Edit: Changed one word because it caused angry comments.

 

[Luigimon98]

Yeah, I don't understand why people keep putting Black Shadow in their fake leaks. F-Zero hasn't had a new game in nearly 15 years... why do people assume it deserves a new character over current ongoing franchises like Kirby and Star Fox?

King K.Rool hasn't appeared for 10 years either and look how it turned out.

 

[Z25]

Hmmm this whole Hitagi situation is very interesting. I'd honestly rather have Steve be DLC so I don't HAVE to see him lol

Just you wait until Steve is base game and more top tier than bayonnetta

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Why do you take this out on the people here? It accomplishes nothing to actively try to lower everyone's expectations.

Because then at the very least I can say that I wasn't a part of those communities when it happened, and that the community I was in did better. Right now I don't see that happening.

A person does not need to believe in the box theory to lower their expectations. For me, box theory has many problems, which is why I don't think it's useful, to me, to treat placeholder art as if it gave any indication to the final roster count (others are free to do so if they wish). But I'm still going in with low expectations (lowered even further given--certain rumors). That also means I can separate those from my hopes--I hope we get more characters, and I can see a logical way they could reveal characters in the time we have left. Those two trains of thought are not mutually exclusive. I see no problem in keeping my expectations low and my hopes high, so long as I don't conflate the two.

That's a completely valid point. The only thing is though: a lot of people aren't doing that. Hence why I feel box theory needs to be argued for.

Bless you for saying this.

I'll say it one more time, but to ANY "highly requested" characters fan. LOWER you expectation and THINK outside of the Smash Community.
Whenever you're a Skull Kid fan, Bandana fan, Geno fan, Isaac fan, Banjo fan.
Lower it. Don't say that your character "Deserve" a spot more than an other, that "That characters stole a spot", or be mad about other characters getting in. Don't put other's people characters down because you believe yours is better.

We're in a point, where literally every video games characters can join Smash Bros. It's not a question of serie representation, spot or whatever anymore, we've been past that ever since Smash 4 DLC.

Whenever the Music Theory is right, the Blog theory is right or the Box theory is right.

Don't whine and be disrespectful like dumb childrens. Last EVO already made us the laughing stock of the FIghting Games community, the video game community already see us as dumb BECAUSE of all of the rosterfagging.

Don't make it worst.

This is best way of putting my entire argument. You think I want box theory to come true? No. But I think we need to temper our expectations and box theory is one of the best ways to argue for that.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

King K.Rool hasn't appeared for 10 years either and look how it turned out.

Yeah, But his franchise is still ongoing... Unlike F-Zero...

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry, but the box theory isn't a leak my friend. It's a placeholder that was always meant to be shown to the public before the final roster was revealed. This changes a lot.
Allow me to explain why I don't belive in dah box:

1) If there were 5/6 more characters left would have they left 5/6 empty spaces on a placeholder meant to be made public? If you say "No", then why making that number 2 suddenly makes it real?

2) This all started from the speculation made by dudes who clearly lacked any actual knowledge of how placeholder images are made, so here is an interesting read for everybody:



3) While a pattern is there, it doesn't mean much about how final the actual box is, and for all we know the Corrin misplacement was made in order to avoid having a side completely full and the other with 3 missing slots, especially since the artist wouldn't know which side woukd be used for the image.

4) Some people suggest that "some notable TP would be o the back" but sorry, no way that Sora and Steve are heavely highlighted when Sonic, Metal Gear and Final Fantasy are not. And if you say "but they are veterans", take a look behind Smash For case and you will see good old Sonic. Of this kind of conspiracy the only one I find belivable is that the Original 8 are on the back, since they are being heavely promoted for Ultimate (starting roster + only characters on the Limited Edition dock).

5) Considering how secretive they are this time about leaks, I can't see them randomly revealing to an extern graphic designer all the fighters, or at least the exact number of fighters befire even handing him Isabelle's artwork. I suppose they approached him with "make a box with 69 characters" or something like that.


So the Box Theory is no where near as bullet proof as people assume, and I'm willing to go one step beyond.
I'm so sure that the box theory is wrong, that we will see more than just Ken and another newcomer in the base game, that if somehow it turns out to be right I will not play Ultimate, my most anticipated game of the DECADE, until the 8th of December CEST.

But now, Box believers, who dares to take this same game? If the Box Theory turns out to be wrong, YOU will have to wait an additional 24 hours. Who wants to play?

I appreciate the thesis, but I haven't given the box much thought as it is. Like I've said several times before (spread throughout different threads) I'm fine with the roster; it could release tomorrow and I'm happy. Things from this point forward are Icing, so whatever comes true; be it boxes, blogs, or a curve ball; I'm fine. Personally, I've always been of the thought process that it's a work in process; extended or altered as they were told of new characters because, like you said, they're keeping a tight wrap on this. If an intern designing the box had even the final roster number (not even characters), that number would be leaked, so they're probably just told to design as they learn new characters. There's no guarantee that the box will even have all characters on it as part of its design. Things change; nothing's finalized until the game goes Gold in November.

This isn't in response to you, but for those who doubt how much something can change closer to release, just look at the movie "Edge of Tomorrow" it ended up going to Blu-Ray & DVD with its name changed to "Live. Die. Repeat". Things can change very close to the release (and in this case, after it).

 

[osby]

King K.Rool hasn't appeared for 10 years either and look how it turned out.

Eh, I'm still kinda salty we got K.Rool instead of Dixie but king of Kremlins has more reasons to be in the game than "give this clone's moveset to this guy" character from a dead franchise.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah, But his franchise is still ongoing... Unlike F-Zero...

I mean, who knows though? His reveal may tie in to F-Zero’s grand return, be it GX HD or a brand new game. Hope for the latter, expect the former, but either way I’d be satisfied if that was the case

 

[Daeyrat]

Yeah, I don't understand why people keep putting Black Shadow in their fake leaks. F-Zero hasn't had a new game in nearly 15 years... why do people assume it deserves a new character over current ongoing franchises like Kirby and Star Fox?

not even deserve. I don't think he would work gameplay wise.
He would be either ganondorf or falcon. Quite redundant, even visually (as black shadow would probably employ purple flames).

 

[Deleted member]

"Ahhh yes I can't complain because I believed in another theory that said we would get more characters"
Geez man do you see the hypocrisy?
People have the right to complain too, I mean I wouldn't feel so good with Ken and Incineroar being the last base newcomers and not getting Geno/Isaac/Banjo.

Okay not that i have a problem with the box theory or anything, but why do people defend it so much? Box theory defenders have literally nothing to gain out of it, other than being right. At least if you are against the theory, you are for the idea that there are more than 2 characters, which literally benefits everyone.

I just find it weird that people defend it like it's going to be this awesome feeling if it turns out to be true lol. Not saying you, but there are a lot of people like this, when everybody should be hoping the Box theory ISNT true.

Believing the Box Theory or not is not a case of equal opinions like "what ice cream flavor is the best?", it's literally about expectations given physical evidence.
You believe the Box Theory, you only have to gain from it and nothing to lose, you lower your expectations so you're either satisfied or pleasently surprised.
You don't believe it, you run the risk of being disappointed.

And the reason Box Theory believers push it so much is because we want to warn people to not expect too much or else they'll be disappointed. There's literal evidence in front of everyone that people ignore and all the counterarguments are completely speculation("they could change it", "we don't know how the other side looks", "the designer wouldn't know the full roster", "characters could go on the back", "some characters could be missing", etc).
I won't be disappointed if it's false, you must be out of your mind that anyone WANTS it to be true, but you can't deny facts and evidence and when you do, you lose your right to complain when things don't go your way.

 

[Deleted member]

A person does not need to believe in the box theory to lower their expectations. For me, box theory has many problems, which is why I don't think it's useful, to me, to treat placeholder art as if it gave any indication to the final roster count (others are free to do so if they wish). But I'm still going in with low expectations (lowered even further given--certain rumors). That also means I can separate those from my hopes--I hope we get more characters, and I can see a logical way they could reveal characters in the time we have left. Those two trains of thought are not mutually exclusive. I see no problem in keeping my expectations low and my hopes high, so long as I don't conflate the two.

I dont think he means the box theory itself necessarily; just more in the line of 'you need to accept the possibility that there are only 2 characters left' and the Box theory kind of represents that; it represents the "worst-case scenario" in terms of characters left.

 

[KingofKoopas]

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Just you wait until Steve is base game and more top tier than bayonnetta

I would want that, just to see all the salt it would cause...

Just a little warning that you can get in trouble for posting videos and images with no text

 

[Deleted member]

Careful; responses that are only memes or videos and no actual 'response' or discussion will get reported.

I would want that, just to see all the salt it would cause...

Just a little warning that you can get in trouble for posting videos and images with no text

I'd prefer the salt poured out if the next direct showed off Incineroar in battle, but then fainting as he's hit from behind as it pans out for the reveal "Gothitelle, Smash Chooses You!" followed by a gameplay montage and an ending to the direct of the Incineroar groaning with translated subtitles of "I'll get in next time!"

 

[RC-3197]

Because then at the very least I can say that I wasn't a part of those communities when it happened, and that the community I was in did better. Right now I don't see that happening.

That's a completely valid point. The only thing is though: a lot of people aren't doing that. Hence why I feel box theory needs to be argued for.

This is best way of putting my entire argument. You think I want box theory to come true? No. But I think we need to temper our expectations and box theory is one of the best ways to argue for that.

Can I just say people don't have to lower their expectations to enjoy the game. In everything someone will find something to complain about, it's a fact of life that we just have to accept. People aren't perfect, products aren't perfect that is a fact. Now my problem is when you go around trying to force your viewpoint on others when it is unnecessary. Just let people enjoy the speculation the way they want to enjoy it. I'm sure there will be disappointment and that is normal. And I'm also sure there will be rabid fans too, that is always the case. It's unnecessary and actually harmful to take your aggression for those types of people out on your fellow board members. If people don't want to believe the box, that's their choice to make, not yours, and you aren't helping anyone by trying to force them to believe otherwise.

 

[Pyra]

Eh, I'm still kinda salty we got K.Rool instead of Dixie but king of Kremlins has more reasons to be in the game than "give this clone's moveset to this guy" character from a dead franchise.

I stand firm that we need 5 Captain Falcon echos.

not even deserve. I don't think he would work gameplay wise.
He would be either ganondorf or falcon. Quite redundant, even visually (as black shadow would probably employ purple flames).

Considering we're talking about Marth Simulator 2018, I don't see that being too much of an issue.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Careful; responses that are only memes or videos and no actual 'response' or discussion will get reported.

Eh don't bother me I was gonna leave this box cult site when the game came out anyway.

 

[tveye]

I would want that, just to see all the salt it would cause...

That's sadistic.

 

[hposter]

Can I just say people don't have to lower their expectations to enjoy the game. In everything someone will find something to complain about, it's a fact of life that we just have to accept. People aren't perfect, products aren't perfect that is a fact. Now my problem is when you go around trying to force your viewpoint on others when it is unnecessary. Just let people enjoy the speculation the way they want to enjoy it. I'm sure there will be disappointment and that is normal. And I'm also sure there will be rabid fans too, that is always the case. It's unnecessary and actually harmful to take your aggression for those types of people out on your fellow board members. If people don't want to believe the box, that's their choice to make, not yours, and you aren't helping anyone by trying to force them to believe otherwise.

my thoughts exactly
some box theorists get annoying when parading it around all the time, but never lose in either scenario
they either get to shove the "I WAS RIGHT" sign in everyone's face or enjoy new characters