Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

[Potato_]

"I hope you are not expecting too many new challengers"


Sakurai, you are one mischievous and genius fella.

I mean, the hints were there that Sakurai's definition of a few was a bit more than people were expecting.

Longest dev time for a Smash game, same team coming back from 4, the game being built using a lot of 4's assets instead of remaking everything. Echoes taking much less time to make than full on newcomers.


Of course, we don;t know for sure if Geno, Sora, Steve are all coming in though so temper your expectations.

 

[Starbound]

Shadow is totally still in the running if you believe in these leaks as it disproves the Box Theory. He has also been hinted by Jon, a known "predictor" who "predicted" Daisy and Ridley pre-E3, the FF games coming to Switch, and more.
Skull Kid, I dunno. Wouldn't bet on it.

Given the current list plus the leaked Incineroar, Ken, Sora, Geno and Steve, I'm inclined to say that's the extent of the roster. That's already 14 newcomers in a game we weren't told to expect too many of, and the upper reaches of "a few" before K Rool's reveal (it would be half the roster).

Any more characters beyond this I would say are echoes if we're just talking base game.

 

[Luigi The President]

Wait...what about the supposedly Masked Man from back then,when we had the Imgur leak?
He was an intern for SE who supposedly knew about Cloud before.
He said the leak was fake because it had Characters he knew weren't in.

In the list there was Sora/Geno+Mallow.


Soon after he deleted his accounts and disappeared from the surface of Earth.

Doesn't that break the "two SE" theory?

Fam what are you talking about

OH OH!

Vergeben s words

“Atleast half a dozen characters”

Simon
King k rool
Incineroar
Steve
Sora
Geno

Half a dozen

He stated this post-E3.
You completely forgot about Isabelle.

Given the current list plus the leaked Incineroar, Ken, Sora, Geno and Steve, I'm inclined to say that's the extent of the roster. That's already 14 newcomers in a game we weren't told to expect too many of, and the upper reaches of "a few" before K Rool's reveal (it would be half the roster).

Any more characters beyond this I would say are echoes if we're just talking base game.

That isn't the point I'm making, though I agree with you.

 

[Untouch]

OH OH!

Vergeben s words

“Atleast half a dozen characters”

Simon
King K. Rool
Incineroar
Steve
Sora
Geno

Half a dozen
(Not sure if Isabelle and ken were excluding from those guys though)

Do we know if he was including echos in that number too?

 

[Starbound]

I think you guys are jumping way too quickly onto this leak. Something like this should be taken with a lot of salt.

Welcome to the leak thread!

That's what we do.

 

[Luigi The President]

Do we know if he was including echos in that number too?

We don't, and that's an important distinction.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Fam what are you talking about


He stated this post-E3.
You completely forgot about Isabelle.


That isn't the point I'm making, though I agree with you.

Yep I know I fixed it

 

[Paperchampion23]

It's a pattern!!!! Let me try!

Capcom: Dante, Mega Man, Ryu
Konami: Richter, Simon, Snake
Namco: Heihachi, Nightmare (To promote Soul Calibur 6), Pac-Man
Sega: Bayonetta, Shadow, Sonic
Square Enix: Cloud, Geno, Sora

I'd absolutely kill for this list, it's too awesome

 

[Chrono.]

My thoughts have shifted to:

• Ken is 100% in
• Incineroar too
• I'm not fully convinced on Steve, I AM convinced on a stage though, wouldn't be surprised to see both
• Leaning towards Geno being the SE rep, no Sora
• I'm starting to think a reason why Verg may not know about a lot of the echo characters is because they were added later than Ken, so I think we have a couple more echoes left to see

 

[Nekoo]

We don't, and that's an important distinction.

It probably doesn't because he himself doesn't seems to know Echoes at all beside Ken.

 

[Luigi The President]

I think you guys are jumping way too quickly onto this leak. Something like this should be taken with a lot of salt.

I feel it's credibility is higher than the majority of leaks posted here.
And it's a leak. Obviously we'll go bananas about it. Though yeah, we likely do need to take a step back.

It probably doesn't because he himself doesn't seems to know Echoes at all beside Ken.

But he never said that for a definite fact, so my point stands.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

"I hope you are not expecting too many new challengers"


Sakurai, you are one mischievous and genius fella.

10 confirmed new characters (5 Newcomers + 4 Echoes and Ken)

That doesn't even include the leaks. And possible DLC.

Sakurai played me like a fiddle.

 

[Untouch]

I think that Vergeben didn't know about a lot of the echos because they probably didn't have nearly as extensive testing done with them compared to the unique newcomers, so if any of his leakers are playtesters they simply wouldn't know.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Oh boy.

OH BOY, You guys have no idea that many has happened, first there was some Ken leak which was confirmed as real, and second, we also pointed possibility of two square enix thanks to genius of Mega Bidoof

Edit: oh yeah and Don't forget about possibility of Steve from Minecraft being playable!

if RelaxAlax doesn’t mention me during his video on all this I’m gonna be pissed.

Also, before I hope fully on board with this myself, I REALLY need a picture or video leak of a non-Incineroar newcomer. I still think box theory and the music theory together hold more ground than any text leak (except for maybe Verge’s).

For now I’m still on Team “just Ken and Incineroar and maybe the others are DLC but I really don’t know anymore man” until the box theory is shattered.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Incineroar is obviously different, because when the roster was being made in 2015, he wouldn't know who from Gen 7 would be a fan favorite because it hadn't been released yet. And Richter is an echo, who he specifically mentioned he'd like people to be taken aback, not knowing who he was. Simon fits better, because as far as we know, he wasn't as heavily requested as the others, but nonetheless iconic. But I never said exclusively fan favorites. But Ridley, K Rool, Banjo, and Geno would be bringing back four heavily requested characters since Melee, which makes better sense for the Ultimate Smash game for fans.As for new stuff--this is extremely subjective, but you could do a lot more with Banjo & Kazooie from what they do in-game alone. Yes, you could make up stuff that Steve doesn't do in game--Sakurai has shown he can make any character, if he wants to. For me, it's a question of should, rather than could. And looking at Duck Hunt, it looks like Smash could have drawn inspiration from B&K--which is high compliments, if true. But there's a wealth of moves that can be drawn from both games that could make B&K one of the more unique characters on the roster (you'd never see the Dog bash people over the head with the Duck), especially since it's a game all about learning new and crazy moves as you progress. Banjo & Kazooie, to me at least, has the unique moves and the character, making an overall better package.

I expect that we'll get only one more Fan requested character, and that will be Geno. Smash isn't just about fan favorites, it's also about the surprises and curve balls that Sakurai Gives us (Wii Fit Trainer, and Ice Cliimbers are some of the most unique Fighters for that reason). Steve Can easily fit that role... As for Banjo, I just don't see it happening... Minecraft is way more relevant and Iconic than Banjo Kazooie is... Minecraft is way too huge too ignore, Even if that means overshadowing a fan pick like Banjo...

over their Doom ripping off Poster boy?

Yup... Pretty sure they want Halo to Stay Xbox exclusive (outside of Skin packs in Minecraft) Besides, Minecraft Makes almost twice the amount of money the entire halo franchise has made.
I really want Steve to be announced soon so the angry Banjo Fans Can Shut Up...

 

[Starbound]

• I'm starting to think a reason why Verg may not know about a lot of the echo characters is because they were added later than Ken, so I think we have a couple more echoes left to see

I can see this.

Once they decided "everyone is here", they branded clones so Lucina and Dark Pit could feel important. And once you brand clones, you're literally only a stone throw away from Ken.

 

[RandomAce]

Now... Minecraft. I don’t actually think Steve is getting in, and we’ll get something aside like a stage, AT, or even a boss (there are some bosses in Mincraft that are perfect for Smash). Yes, Minecraft is popular and revolution, but it barely has any association with Nintendo nor is it that connected with them. You can say that Minecarft is on Switch and all of that, but Minecraft is on literally every console, and they cross played with Nintendo to spite Sony because of their cross play issues. ALL the third parties in Smash had at least some correlation to Nintendo and represents and part of Nintendo’s history. Yes, Cloud and Snake are in Smash, but Cloud is in Smash solely because Sakurai wanted some character from Final Fantasy in seeing how it’s one of the biggest franchises in the world and it has a long history with Nintendo. Sakurai even first went with a FF character from the NES and SNES before he ended up with Cloud because, let’s face it, Cloud is extremely popular and is the face of FF. Snake is a rare exception, that of the begging of someone close to Sakurai to eventually include him. But even then, MGS first games were on Nintendo consoles. Which is something Minecraft doesn’t have.

Can Minecraft get content? Yes it can, and I can see it happening, but I’m doubtful it’s a character. Minecraft is more well known for it’s world and it’s monsters and building, and so many things, but not the character. There aren’t even any characters, it’s a blank slate. The series in a similar vein to Mondter Hunter. Yes, Monster Hunter’s current state is different than Minecraft, but Monster Hunter makes more sense for charcater than Minecraft since Monster Hunter characters have a more centralized personality, goal, moveset, and have more closer history to Nintendo than Minecraft Steve.

This doesn’t include Steve’s biggest problem, the model. Look I can see the arguements “but we have Snake and Bayonetta in the game, so it doesn’t matter if he looks out of place”. Let me say this, there is a difference between looking out of place characteristicly, than physically. Snake, Bayonetta, Mr. Game and Watch, [insert out of place character here] at least have the proportions you need to adjust and animate them to at least fit them into the game coherently. But there’s a difference to that, where you can alter them to at least fit them nicely into the game, than being a literal stiff mesh of polygonal block. It is very difficult to include that sort of design, to a game where personality and expression is one of the important key traits in the game.

That’s why I doubt Steve. This and the fact that leakers like Verge and some others that mention Minecraft, usually reference content in general instead of a character, is why I think we won’t get a character.

But I’ll eat a shoe if somehow Steve gets in as a playable character, there’s something odd about including him when you compare him to all the other characters, everything gets thrown out of the water at this point.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

It probably doesn't because he himself doesn't seems to know Echoes at all beside Ken.

This still makes me think Ken might be a Semi like Isabelle considering he hasn't had info on any of the actual Echoes yet.

But then again Ken could have been the testing ground who knows.

 

[Potato_]

My thoughts have shifted to:

• Ken is 100% in
• Incineroar too
• I'm not fully convinced on Steve, I AM convinced on a stage though, wouldn't be surprised to see both
• Leaning towards Geno being the SE rep, no Sora
• I'm starting to think a reason why Verg may not know about a lot of the echo characters is because they were added later than Ken, so I think we have a couple more echoes left to see

I would not be surprised if Capcom offered Nintendo Ken, and that made them think of the idea of Echo Fighters as a way to pad out the fighters with fan favorites that didn't have a chance otherwise. Would make sense that Verge only knew about Ken since he was the grandfather of the echoes essentially.

As for the rest, anyone doubting Ken at this point needs to take another look at all the evidence in his favour. Incineroar pops up way too often to be a coincedence.

Everything else is still up in the air.

 

[Untouch]

If Vergeben's source for Ken was the picture that's been posted here, Ken may not have leaked through a minor playtester, which would explain why he is the only echo he knew about.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Do we know if he was including echos in that number too?

Iirc, he said he wasn't sure if that number included echoes or not, and that he was going to look more into it.

 

[Luigi The President]

Now... Minecraft. I don’t actually think Steve is getting in, and we’ll get something aside like a stage, AT, or even a boss (there are some bosses in Mincraft that are perfect for Smash). Yes, Minecraft is popular and revolution, but it barely has any association with Nintendo nor is it that connected with them. You can say that Minecarft is on Switch and all of that, but Minecraft is on literally every console, and they cross played with Nintendo to spite Sony because of their cross play issues. ALL the third parties in Smash had at least some correlation to Nintendo and represents and part of Nintendo’s history. Yes, Cloud and Snake are in Smash, but Cloud is in Smash solely because Sakurai wanted some character from Final Fantasy in seeing how it’s one of the biggest franchises in the world and it has a long history with Nintendo. Sakurai even first went with a FF character from the NES and SNES before he ended up with Cloud because, let’s face it, Cloud is extremely popular and is the face of FF. Snake is a rare exception, that of the begging of someone close to Sakurai to eventually include him. But even then, MGS first games were on Nintendo consoles. Which is something Minecraft doesn’t have.

Can Minecraft get content? Yes it can, and I can see it happening, but I’m doubtful it’s a character. Minecraft is more well known for it’s world and it’s monsters and building, and so many things, but not the character. There aren’t even any characters, it’s a blank slate. The series in a similar vein to Mondter Hunter. Yes, Monster Hunter’s current state is different than Minecraft, but Monster Hunter makes more sense for charcater than Minecraft since Monster Hunter characters have a more centralized personality, goal, moveset, and have more closer history to Nintendo than Minecraft Steve.

This doesn’t include Steve’s biggest problem, the model. Look I can see the arguements “but we have Snake and Bayonetta in the game, so it doesn’t matter if he looks out of place”. Let me say this, there is a difference between looking out of place characteristicly, than physically. Snake, Bayonetta, Mr. Game and Watch, [insert out of place character here] at least have the proportions you need to adjust and animate them to at least fit them into the game coherently. But there’s a difference to that, where you can alter them to at least fit them nicely into the game, than being a literal stiff mesh of blocks.

That’s why I doubt Steve. This and the fact that leakers like Verge and some others that mention Minecraft, usually reference content in general instead of a character, is why I think we won’t get a character.

But I’ll eat a shoe if somehow Steve gets in as a playable character, there’s something odd about including him when you compare him to all the other characters, everything gets thrown out of the water at this point.

So the game being on a Nintendo console isn't enough? Actually, on two Nintendo consoles? And it even got a Creeper 3DS in Japan?
You can debate on the specifics of what the fanbase cares about-the world, the monsters-but the fact is a Minecraft CHARACTER promotes and sells a TON more than a STAGE OR ASSIST TROPHY.
You also have no clue what they'll do with Steve's physics, so I don't know why this is a point against him.

 

[Shroob]

So what?


Is the In-Ken-iroar actually a possibility to be dropped on us in early October after all?

 

[RC-3197]

My thoughts have shifted to:

• Ken is 100% in
• Incineroar too
• I'm not fully convinced on Steve, I AM convinced on a stage though, wouldn't be surprised to see both
• Leaning towards Geno being the SE rep, no Sora
• I'm starting to think a reason why Verg may not know about a lot of the echo characters is because they were added later than Ken, so I think we have a couple more echoes left to see

Don't forget that Vergeben only knows so much. He missed K Rool, Chrom, Dark Samus, and Richter I wouldn't be surprised if there are other characters outside of his leak radar specifically echos.

 

[Nekoo]

Fam what are you talking about

Back in July Pre-E3 we had a leak with riddle who had Sora and Geno+Mallow in it.
A member in ResetEra called "Masked Man"who was an intern at Square-Enix said the leak was fake because it had Characters he knew weren't in Smash.

He then deleted his accounts and all that Jazz Probably because he broke NDA.

 

[LetterO]

In the talk of all this Steve and Ken, I'm still gonna sit here and believe that a RH character still has a good chance.

 

[Luigi The President]

Back in July Pre-E3 we had a leak with riddle who had Sora and Geno+Mallow in it.
A member in ResetEra called "Masked Man"who was an intern at Square-Enix said the leak was fake because it had Characters he knew weren't in Smash.

He then deleted his accounts and all that Jazz Probably because he broke NDA.

I genuinely don't recall this at all. Can you try to dig it up?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

But I’ll eat a shoe if somehow Steve gets in as a playable character,

You better be a Man of your words...

In the talk of all this Steve and Ken, I'm still gonna sit here and believe that a RH character still has a good chance.

You and me Both Bud, you and me Both...

 

[papagenos]

if RelaxAlax doesn’t mention me during his video on all this I’m gonna be pissed.

Also, before I hope fully on board with this myself, I REALLY need a picture or video leak of a non-Incineroar newcomer. I still think box theory and the music theory together hold more ground than any text leak (except for maybe Verge’s).

For now I’m still on Team “just Ken and Incineroar and maybe the others are DLC but I really don’t know anymore man” until the box theory is shattered.

Well I can assure you that I'll make sure to mention you if i make a video on this.

im making notes for this new Sora AND Geno thing and i already wrote you down as where the "sora/geno both in and thats why vergeben is unsure" theory comes from.

 

[Knight Dude]

If Steve and Fox fused, would they become a boxer?

"Eh, yOu! WaNnA TRy mE GuV?"

In case you still don't think the Steve "leaker" is trying to mess with the community, he just posted this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9i4njq/stop_dming_me_about_leaks/
I don't know what it said but I noticed it and when it was 20 minutes old it was deleted. No comments, nothing.
Reddit doesn't seem to have an archive so I can't see what it said though.

If it's some elaborate ruse, that'd be something alright.

 

[Starbound]

So what?


Is the In-Ken-iroar actually a possibility to be dropped on us in early October after all?

Ken/Incineroar getting dropped early/mid October with a date for a later Smash direct in October that finishes everything off.

I feel like everything has to be out in the wild by November since some Smash stuff is out in November plus they need to do pre-install, which usually starts a month early.

 

[kylexv]

I feel that Sakurai will definitely say if we know the final roster if we've seen it.

So, if a Ken/Incineroar trailer pops up next months and it says nothing about it being the final newcomers or about it being the final roster, it's probably safe to assume there's more characters coming.

 

[Nekoo]

I genuinely don't recall this at all. Can you try to dig it up?

I wish I could but...
Well, I have no idea how I'm going to do so in ResetEra since he deleted his accounts

 

[Michael the Spikester]

At this point due to the amount of leaks. I'm incline to believe the final official base roster will be a combination of them.

 

[Luigi The President]

I wish I could but...
Well, I have no idea how I'm going to do so in ResetEra since he deleted his accounts

Also how do you know the guy was an intern??

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Verge knowing about Ken is likely to be related to how he's likely to be a semi-clone like Isabelle.

I've said this here before, but Smash Ryu has a lot of important moves that Ken straight up doesn't use and Ken himself has been Luigified to the point where most of his normals are different than Ryu's.

 

[Nekoo]

Also how do you know the guy was an intern??

His Twitter.

 

[Luigi The President]

Verge knowing about Ken is likely to be related to how he's likely to be a semi-clone like Isabelle.

I've said this here before, but Smash Ryu has a lot of important moves that Ken straight up doesn't use and Ken himself has been Luigified to the point where most of his normals are different than Ryu's.

I don't wanna live in a world where Ken gets in as a semi-clone before Chun or Akuma.
Ken as an Echo just feels right. It's how he began.

His Twitter.

The Twitter of...who?
I think you're being fooled ngl.

 

[Darkraid]

OH OH!

Vergeben s words

“Atleast half a dozen characters”

Simon
King K. Rool
Isabelle
Incineroar
Steve
Sora
Geno

Half a dozen
(Not sure if Isabelle and ken were excluding from those guys though)

Did u forget the echoes?

 

[Nekoo]

Did u forget the echoes?

Verg doesn't seems to know about Echoes and K.rool