Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

[NextChannelGames]

Found this here on 4chen http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432991643/super-smash-bros-ultimate-leak-directly-from-the

Interesting it has Lip which is a retro character back in the SNES, she would be pretty cool. Also, It does make me wonder how the ESRB leaker is doing... but man, if he really is in jail I wonder how some information still get out?

 

[perfectchaos83]

Found this here on 4chen http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/432991643/super-smash-bros-ultimate-leak-directly-from-the

Interesting it has Lip which is a retro character back in the SNES, she would be pretty cool. Also, It does make me wonder how the ESRB leaker is doing... but man, if he really is in jail I wonder how some information still get out?

Never trust a leak that details Sakurai's thought process. Anyone that would know is not gonna put their job in jeopardy. That's something very few will know.

 

[NextChannelGames]

Never trust a leak that details Sakurai's thought process. Anyone that would know is not gonna put their job in jeopardy. That's something very few will know.

Agreed

 

[pap64]

Like I mentioned in the thread I made before it got locked, the leaks have gotten out of hand. It seems that a day doesn't pass without a leak being hit with various alterations of other established leaks (like if Vergeben says Ken is going to be in the game, everyone else adds Ken plus another character they swear are in, like Steve from Minecraft).

I've been following the online Smash community since the Melee and the leaks have never been as bad as they are now. If that doesn't tell you how much the hype for this game is, nothing will. But I also think the reason these leaks are so persistent is because the more they get right, the more notoriety the leaker will get, I mean just look at Vergeben. As of this writing, he is still considering to be the most trustworthy leaker of the bunch has he has been correct in every prediction he has made, right down to Isabelle (which way too many people scoffed as either being unlikely or an echo of Villager). He is just one wrong prediction away from being the Gematsu of Ultimate (for context, Gematsu was the leaker that predicted a lot of things for Smash 4 right until the reveal of Lucina and Robin because he swore Chrom was going to be in the game).

The most fascinating aspect of these leaks to me, though, is how they are very safe. Maybe it's because Smash Brothers has become so infamous in its crossover aspect that you mention a character and chances are people might say "...it may just happen". The craziest I have heard are Vault Boy from the Prima Guide leak and Steve from Minecraft. Even Sora from Kingdom Hearts now seems like a possibility with all the crazy Disney red-tape he has over him. It's like Smash has become the most ambitious crossover game ever than trying to guess the most outrageous character ever just ends up with people saying "Sakurai so cray he/she may already be in!".

 

[Knight Dude]

Have we've gotten any thing new and/or crazy yet? The Ken stuff still seems solid as it is. Haven't many people talk about it yet.

Oh, and that Steven Stone remix is that good ****.

 

[Enchess]

You guys remember when Gematsu was trustworthy and had real sources but still included characters not in the final game because **** happens and even legit leakers can get info wrong through no fault of their own? No?

Music Theory is alive and kicking and even Verg having real sources, even if we knew for sure their info was real, doesn't kill it cuz **** happens. Due to the way the theory is structured, literally all that can kill it is either an official reveal of a unique character whose series has music or a second song from a series that's already gotten music. That's it.

Music Theory has also never really changed. Echoes were already shown to be exceptions before the theory was formulated. It's just people who didn't understand the theory arguing without taking time to understand it that propagated that misconception.

Honestly I don't give a **** if the theory is true or not. If it's actually disproven in the future, I'll think it shows incompetence in the way the blog is run (an opinion I've explained too many times to reexplain), but it won't mean much to me because Music Theory being right or wrong doesnt affect the chances of characters I want. I'm just getting increasingly annoyed at people being rude about it and prematurely gloating when they wheny don't understand the theory in the first place.

 

[Jchrono95]

I think what makes this smash so exciting is that theres very few things actually outside the realm of possibility. 4 years ago if you'd tell me Minecraft representation in smash would be a real possibility I'd laugh. And things only get even more exciting when you take possible dlc into account. It's just so exciting, especially considering what we already have confirmed could be grounds to argue this as the best yet.

 

[Noipoi]

You guys remember when Gematsu was trustworthy and had real sources but still included characters not in the final game because **** happens and even legit leakers can get info wrong through no fault of their own? No?

Music Theory is alive and kicking and even Verg having real sources, even if we knew for sure their info was real, doesn't kill it cuz **** happens. Due to the way the theory is structured, literally all that can kill it is either an official reveal of a unique character whose series has music or a second song from a series that's already gotten music. That's it.

Music Theory has also never really changed. Echoes were already shown to be exceptions before the theory was formulated. It's just people who didn't understand the theory arguing without taking time to understand it that propagated that misconception.

Honestly I don't give a **** if the theory is true or not. If it's actually disproven in the future, I'll think it shows incompetence in the way the blog is run (an opinion I've explained too many times to reexplain), but it won't mean much to me because Music Theory being right or wrong doesnt affect the chances of characters I want. I'm just getting increasingly annoyed at people being rude about it and prematurely gloating when they wheny don't understand the theory in the first place.

I just really don't think a song about the Champion of the Hoenn region has anything to do with a starter from the Alola region.
I also don't think a song from Mario 3 has much to do with a character from Mario RPG.

Even if music theory is real, I don't think it's as rigid as some people make it out to be. Geno and Incineroar being disconfirmed because of the boss theme from Mario 3 and the Champion theme from Ruby and Sapphire seems really weird to me.

 

[Knight Dude]

Yeah, that's one thing that does need to be kept in mind, Gematsu got a bunch of stuff right, and the things it got wrong likely came from being cut early on. Who's to say if there's some extra info we simply don't know about?

Personally, I'm happy with the roster as is, but I'm still interested in how things'll play about now that we're almost 2 months from release.

 

[Dcas]

Like I mentioned in the thread I made before it got locked, the leaks have gotten out of hand. It seems that a day doesn't pass without a leak being hit with various alterations of other established leaks (like if Vergeben says Ken is going to be in the game, everyone else adds Ken plus another character they swear are in, like Steve from Minecraft).

I've been following the online Smash community since the Melee and the leaks have never been as bad as they are now. If that doesn't tell you how much the hype for this game is, nothing will. But I also think the reason these leaks are so persistent is because the more they get right, the more notoriety the leaker will get, I mean just look at Vergeben. As of this writing, he is still considering to be the most trustworthy leaker of the bunch has he has been correct in every prediction he has made, right down to Isabelle (which way too many people scoffed as either being unlikely or an echo of Villager). He is just one wrong prediction away from being the Gematsu of Ultimate (for context, Gematsu was the leaker that predicted a lot of things for Smash 4 right until the reveal of Lucina and Robin because he swore Chrom was going to be in the game).

The most fascinating aspect of these leaks to me, though, is how they are very safe. Maybe it's because Smash Brothers has become so infamous in its crossover aspect that you mention a character and chances are people might say "...it may just happen". The craziest I have heard are Vault Boy from the Prima Guide leak and Steve from Minecraft. Even Sora from Kingdom Hearts now seems like a possibility with all the crazy Disney red-tape he has over him. It's like Smash has become the most ambitious crossover game ever than trying to guess the most outrageous character ever just ends up with people saying "Sakurai so cray he/she may already be in!".

Well that and we are basically 2 months away and there are several missing links. Online ranking, modes, spirits, missing characters, how AT will work, unlocking characters, etc. We are missing key componentes of smash and is only 2 months away and we really need all this info.

 

[Enchess]

I just really don't think a song about the Champion of the Hoenn region has anything to do with a starter from the Alola region.
I also don't think a song from Mario 3 has much to do with a character from Mario RPG.

Even if music theory is real, I don't think it's as rigid as some people make it out to be. Geno and Incineroar being disconfirmed because of the boss theme from Mario 3 and the Champion theme from Ruby and Sapphire seems really weird to me.

The thing is music theory has an incredibly logical reason for why it would be true beyond mere pattern recognition:

When you click on the music section, the more different icons there are the larger the amount of content in the game appears, thus setting a better impression.

It doesn't matter if the song has nothing to do with Incineroar because assuming that the blog managers want to show off the diversity of the franchises represented is what the music theory hinges on. That's the part that makes the theory logical (and not just projecting an arbitrary pattern) that detractors almost always ignore.

 

[Shroob]

The only part I don't get is if Music Theory 'debunks' Incineroar......how?


Do you seriously think that The Pokemon Company, Nintendo's arguably most profitable franchise, would be happy with their brand new character getting the axe?



All of Verg's characters at this point have been confirmed barring Ken(Who is probably in due to the leak), Incineroar, and the 2nd SE Rep.



I have a very hard time seeing Pokemon of all franchises get the shaft, especially with the heavy focus on Gen7 this time from the looks of it.




It's plausible, but even without Verg, I'd say a Gen7 'mon is very likely.

 

[Knight Dude]

I do think showing some of the yet-to-be-revealed Assists on the blog would be nice. Could even bring up some discussion for everyone in these threads.

Well, someone like Shadow or Skull Kid certainly would, or Isaac, as much as I'd like him to be playable. Not sure about Elecman, especially when Zero's an Assist now. Would be the first time a third party series got multiple Assist in a single game I think. Not to mention, the lack of either a Street Fighter or Final Fantasy Assist character. Both of which have a ton of choices to pull from, even if there's a few really obvious ones.

 

[Enchess]

The only part I don't get is if Music Theory 'debunks' Incineroar......how?


Do you seriously think that The Pokemon Company, Nintendo's arguably most profitable franchise, would be happy with their brand new character getting the axe?



All of Verg's characters at this point have been confirmed barring Ken(Who is probably in due to the leak), Incineroar, and the 2nd SE Rep.



I have a very hard time seeing Pokemon of all franchises get the shaft, especially with the heavy focus on Gen7 this time from the looks of it.




It's plausible, but even without Verg, I'd say a Gen7 'mon is very likely.

I don't think TPC has nearly as much say in Smash as people assume... like at all...

But Music Theory by nature can't be confirmed until the game releases, so it can't debunk Incineroar. I think anyone saying otherwise misunderstands it. If the theory holds and the game releases without Incineroar, what it will tell us is in hindsight this song got released when it did for no particular reason. Because there was no reveal to tie the song to.

Basically, the music theory is a pattern that (1) holds so far, and (2) has a very logical explanation for why it might be intentional. Thus, it can be a useful tool to make predictions (in contrast, patterns missing either 1 or 2 are not useful).

In a way, you can argue credible leakers are actually patterns following 1&2 themselves. There is (1) a pattern of Verg's predictions being correct, and (2) a logical explanation for why they are correct that's not just random guessing. Just like Music Theory, we also cannot be positive Verg is correct until all characters are revealed, but he is a useful tool for prediction.

Neither tool can invalidate the other because it is impossible to know the trustworthiness of either tool. We can estimate it (and by all means Verg seems more legit), but Verg cannot disprove Music Theory either.

 

[Z25]

The thing with incenroar is if he’s in which seems pretty likely, he has to be base roster.

Pokémon wouldn’t push him to DLC because at that point they will be heading into gen 8 and would definitely promote a Pokémon from that since it be coming out the same as DLC.

I doubt we would have with a gen 7 and 8 mon as DLC. It’s 8 or nothing imo.

So the support and claims for incenroar make it pretty likely that regardless of any theory he’s on the base roster. Pokémon would let him be pushed back to DLC because at that point the logical thing to do would be scrap him for a gen 8 mon, but I doubt that would happen.

So incenroar still seems pretty plausible for the base roster.

 

[pap64]

Well that and we are basically 2 months away and there are several missing links. Online ranking, modes, spirits, missing characters, how AT will work, unlocking characters, etc. We are missing key componentes of smash and is only 2 months away and we really need all this info.

That is definitely a huge factor as to why these leaks have become so prevalent. Sash 4 was announced I believe a year before its release, and information was rolled out during that one year span. Brawl had an even longer release span where it was two years after its announcement that it was released. This allowed for information to not just roll out promptly but not create such a massive desire of information. Ultimate, however, was announced this year in March, then shown off in May, with a full direct in August, and a small reveal this month. There is so much info still being kept secret that is both frustrating as well as exhilarating. And I think this, in a way, is a smart move on Nintendo's behalf.

Save for a few smaller side-games like Aces and Mario Party, Nintendo has lacked in major IP releases this year. Ultimate is going to be that killer app for the year. I feel they will want to keep this hype train going till December 7 so people keep buying Switches and in the process buy more games till Smash is out. With so very little known about the final game, it's what leads to speculation, then all these leaks are created.

 

[Deleted member]

It seems as if it's a safe time to look in the Leak Thread, but I'm just curious as to how practically everyone when they see Reimu or any Touhou related content in a leak disregard it? I don't know if this has been talked about, I'm mainly just genuinely curious about this.

 

[Shroob]

I don't think TPC has nearly as much say in Smash as people assume... like at all...

But Music Theory by nature can't be confirmed until the game releases, so it can't debunk Incineroar. I think anyone saying otherwise misunderstands it. If the theory holds and the game releases without Incineroar, what it will tell us is in hindsight this song got released when it did for no particular reason. Because there was no reveal to tie the song to.

Basically, the music theory is a pattern that (1) holds so far, and (2) has a very logical explanation for why it might be intentional. Thus, it can be a useful tool to make predictions (in contrast, patterns missing either 1 or 2 are not useful).

In a way, you can argue credible leakers are actually patterns following 1&2 themselves. There is (1) a pattern of Verg's predictions being correct, and (2) a logical explanation for why they are correct that's not just random guessing. Just like Music Theory, we also cannot be positive Verg is correct until all characters are revealed, but he is a useful tool for prediction.

Neither tool can invalidate the other because it is impossible to know the trustworthiness of either tool. We can estimate it (and by all means Verg seems more legit), but Verg cannot disprove Music Theory either.

I mean, theoretically, Verg 'can' debunk the music theory, but if he could he couldn't share it with us.

Namely, a reason that his sources are to be believed in Incineroar.



Obviously, to protect his sources he can't share any info like that with us, but theoretically, it's not implausible for his sources to have shown him something to make him believe in Incineroar, like perhaps the Ken pic for Ken, as an example(No, we have no idea if Verg saw the Ken pic before it, it's just a theory).

 

[Deoxys911]

I'll do you one better; I've read Sakurai's posts and watched his directs long enough that I'm starting to think how he thinks, how freaky is that?

My sentence structures are full of Sakuraisms.

I'm worried about you. You must recover!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Incineroar will either be base roster or he won't be in the game. It's that easy.

All that being said, he'll 99.99% be in the game.

Also, at this point I'm subscribing to Nihilist theory, which posits that every theory is fake (as they're all based on circumstantial and anecdotal data) and that nothing can be used to determine the final roster size. Anyone and everyone is free to join me.

It seems as if it's a safe time to look in the Leak Thread, but I'm just curious as to how practically everyone when they see Reimu or any Touhou related content in a leak disregard it? I don't know if this has been talked about, I'm mainly just genuinely curious about this.

You're safe for now.

Anyways, before people seriously considered Reimu, she was a meme on /v/. Literally one guy was touting her out and about in every thread. It was some real devotion for sure. Some people still see her as nothing more than a meme despite the serious reputation that the series has going for it.

 

[Enchess]

I mean, theoretically, Verg 'can' debunk the music theory, but if he could he couldn't share it with us.

Namely, a reason that his sources are to be believed in Incineroar.



Obviously, to protect his sources he can't share any info like that with us, but theoretically, it's not implausible for his sources to have shown him something to make him believe in Incineroar, like perhaps the Ken pic for Ken, as an example(No, we have no idea if Verg saw the Ken pic before it, it's just a theory).

Ok, technically correct is best correct, so you get a point.

I meant in terms of what the two have already shown/predicted. Verg hasn't shown such definitive proof of his source's legitimacy (and recency, which is super important looking back to Gematsu), so at this snapshot in time he can't possibly have debunked Music Theory

 

[Noipoi]

It seems as if it's a safe time to look in the Leak Thread, but I'm just curious as to how practically everyone when they see Reimu or any Touhou related content in a leak disregard it? I don't know if this has been talked about, I'm mainly just genuinely curious about this.

I don't think Touhou content is impossible, but I do think it's in the realm of "probably not happening any time soon".

 

[Shroob]

Ok, technically correct is best correct, so you get a point.

I meant in terms of what the two have already shown/predicted. Verg hasn't shown such definitive proof of his source's legitimacy (and recency, which is super important looking back to Gematsu), so at this snapshot in time he can't possibly have debunked Music Theory

Although I don't put 100% faith in him myself, he's dead confident in Incineroar being in and Music Theory being stupid.


Now, the conspiracy theorist in me wants to say "He thinks this way because he's seen something that we haven't", and as vaanrose said himself in regards to the Ken picture "To me, this picture has probably been around for awhile, being passed around from person to person, that's why it has soo many .jpeg artifacts to it."


But of course, we have no idea, really. We have no "Incineroar" leak to match the Ken leak, and I legit cannot see Incineroar not being on the base roster.



So either Verg is wrong, meaning all his sources were wrong, or Verg is right, there's really only two outcomes here, especially when just recently his three other sources updated him saying it was infact Incineroar.

 

[Enchess]

Although I don't put 100% faith in him myself, he's dead confident in Incineroar being in and Music Theory being stupid.


Now, the conspiracy theorist in me wants to say "He thinks this way because he's seen something that we haven't", and as vaanrose said himself in regards to the Ken picture "To me, this picture has probably been around for awhile, being passed around from person to person, that's why it has soo many .jpeg artifacts to it."


But of course, we have no idea, really. We have no "Incineroar" leak to match the Ken leak, and I legit cannot see Incineroar not being on the base roster.



So either Verg is wrong, meaning all his sources were wrong, or Verg is right, there's really only two outcomes here, especially when just recently his three other sources updated him saying it was infact Incineroar.

No, there are a variety of other less extreme possibilities. Incineroar could've been false info to help Nintendo track leakers somewhat (probably at department level, not employee level), Incineroar could've been considered but dropped since Pokemon has a lot of representation already, Incineroar could've had technical issues that held him back, etc.

As far as Music Theory being "stupid", it's getting increasingly hard to believe detractors actually even tried to get it. Let me rephrase the theory:
Maybe Sakurai gave whoever runs the blog (sorta doubt he actually does it personally) two directions on music - try to show off music from as many series as possible and try to make tracks coincide with new unique character reveals if possible. Those are both things that are desirable from a game dev's standpoint, so it's not hard to imagine Sakurai giving an order like this. That's it. That's music theory.

Edit: I wanna throw on a note on technical difficulties. Unfortunately NDAs stop me from going into details, but you'd be shocked what sorta things cause major technical problems. Sometimes it's stuff that seems trivial, not stuff that seems complicated

 

[Deleted member]

You're safe for now.

Anyways, before people seriously considered Reimu, she was a meme on /v/. Literally one guy was touting her out and about in every thread. It was some real devotion for sure. Some people still see her as nothing more than a meme despite the serious reputation that the series has going for it.

Hey, that guy has some taste, you have to admit lmao even though I'd rather prefer someone other than Reimu

Either way, I think I can see how it's a bit of a meme, but I don't think just straight up disregarding Touhou content should be a thing to do when we previously thought franchises like Street Fighter and Final Fantasy were never gonna happen. In the grand scheme of things, Touhou Project is practically the 2nd biggest indie franchise of all time before Minecraft. I WOULD put Undertale in that slot, but one of the biggest attributes of the game and some music were practically inspired by Touhou in the first place. I would see Touhou and Undertale sharing the second slot, to be respectful.

The annual Reitaisai, fanmade animes, the fact that so many internet collaborations still continue to use Touhou songs as reference to remix - for a franchise that's been going on this big for so long, I'd say it has a sure fire chance. The clout ZUN has gotten with this franchise is mind-blowing, even more so when he's the only person still making the series after 21 years. It would make a little bit of a splash here in the Americas, because people DO know the franchise by either osmosis or the internet, but my god - Japan? It'd be beyond astronomical, Bowsette-levels, even.

People do know how much of a rep Touhou has, so it leaves me at awe as to why people will still completely disregard it, being a meme or not. I mean, we have Steve from Minecraft now in serious contenting talk, and practically everyone considered him a meme. I believe that as long as the franchise got the clout, they should be accounted for good talk. I dunno, might be the 12AM mind speaking for me and I'm just rambling lmao

 

[Shroob]

No, there are a variety of other less extreme possibilities. Incineroar could've been false info to help Nintendo track leakers somewhat (probably at department level, not employee level), Incineroar could've been considered but dropped since Pokemon has a lot of representation already, Incineroar could've had technical issues that held him back, etc.

As far as Music Theory being "stupid", it's getting increasingly hard to believe detractors actually even tried to get it. Let me rephrase the theory:
Maybe Sakurai gave whoever runs the blog (sorta doubt he actually does it personally) two directions on music - try to show off music from as many series as possible and try to make tracks coincide with new unique character reveals if possible. Those are both things that are desirable from a game dev's standpoint, so it's not hard to imagine Sakurai giving an order like this. That's it. That's music theory.

I highly doubt the character was dropped if he's just now able to get confirmation from three separate people. His sources could be lying/riding off the current general consensus, but we're two months out from the game launching. If people who he apparently trusts are just now saying it's that, 'being dropped' is highly unlikely.


As for false info? Possible, but we have no true way of knowing.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I'd like to point out, that the Music theory as a whole does not kill the chances of a Pokemon newcomer in general. A Pokemon Echo is still on the table (As unlikely as that may be)

Hell, Maybe Zeraora is a Lucario Echo for all we know.

I only subscribe to the music theory because I find it interesting and because it makes sense from an information distribution standpoint.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm gonna have to defend the big guy from the regular detractors and music theorists now, huh?
Bring it on.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I mea technically if Inceneroar is revealed before next Tuesday then both sides of the theory still stands right? Vergeben being right and the music theory coinciding with a newcomer to it's best ability.

Then again. Maybe the next Smash Direct is the last and there'll be two newcomers there. At which point the other, presumably new series, character will take control of the following week of updates a la Castlevania.

 

[Shroob]

I mea technically if Inceneroar is revealed before next Tuesday then both sides of the theory still stands right? Vergeben being right and the music theory coinciding with a newcomer to it's best ability.

Then again. Maybe the next Smash Direct is the last and there'll be two newcomers there. At which point the other, presumably new series, character will take control of the following week of updates a la Castlevania.

This is an interesting stance to take.


A Direct the first week in October 'would' prove a suspicion I've had in regards to how they've spaced these out, but I'm super iffy on a Direct in October at all.

 

[NextChannelGames]

Like I mentioned in the thread I made before it got locked, the leaks have gotten out of hand. It seems that a day doesn't pass without a leak being hit with various alterations of other established leaks (like if Vergeben says Ken is going to be in the game, everyone else adds Ken plus another character they swear are in, like Steve from Minecraft).

I've been following the online Smash community since the Melee and the leaks have never been as bad as they are now. If that doesn't tell you how much the hype for this game is, nothing will. But I also think the reason these leaks are so persistent is because the more they get right, the more notoriety the leaker will get, I mean just look at Vergeben. As of this writing, he is still considering to be the most trustworthy leaker of the bunch has he has been correct in every prediction he has made, right down to Isabelle (which way too many people scoffed as either being unlikely or an echo of Villager). He is just one wrong prediction away from being the Gematsu of Ultimate (for context, Gematsu was the leaker that predicted a lot of things for Smash 4 right until the reveal of Lucina and Robin because he swore Chrom was going to be in the game).

The most fascinating aspect of these leaks to me, though, is how they are very safe. Maybe it's because Smash Brothers has become so infamous in its crossover aspect that you mention a character and chances are people might say "...it may just happen". The craziest I have heard are Vault Boy from the Prima Guide leak and Steve from Minecraft. Even Sora from Kingdom Hearts now seems like a possibility with all the crazy Disney red-tape he has over him. It's like Smash has become the most ambitious crossover game ever than trying to guess the most outrageous character ever just ends up with people saying "Sakurai so cray he/she may already be in!".

Thinking back the days leading to Smash4 I remember only really one leak that stood pretty much the whole time and that was Gematsu. Indeed when were announced the person got Chrom wrong but it didn’t mean everything was wrong because only like... 80% was right?

I don’t remember any leak related being this hype back then that had info like Gematsu becoming really big because I used to watch a lot of Smash speculation and I recall that it wasn’t that huge. Maybe because it was like over a year away or could be that after what happened with ESRB & E3 which fans started to notice Vergeben that it became huge now.

 

[Enchess]

I'm gonna have to defend the big guy from the regular detractors and music theorists now, huh?
Bring it on.

First off, your avatar is awesome. I know you've had it a bit, but I'm a mobile user and only just zoomed in.

Second, I don't think Verg needs defending. Entertaining the idea of music theory is not an attack on him. It's just saying "hey, this still could be true, let's not write it off entirely". I think he's the best bet as far as theorizing goes, I just also don't think music theory (or box theory for that matter) are idiotic. They have patterns with logical reasons for why they may have occurred (not just "hey, a pattern! Maybe it'll hold up for no apparent reason")

 

[Deleted member]

All the "Music theory" ever was to me was a set of coincidences.

Today's music update changes nothing for me since I never really took much stock into it to begin with.

 

[Shroob]

NonSpecificGuy brings up a good point.


As long as Incineroar gets revealed before the next music update, technically both Vergeben and Music Theory can both be correct when all is said and done, but we'd be in need of a Direct.


............Minecon's on Saturday, boiz.


We got a Direct announcement at EVO, it's crazy, but it's not impossible.

 

[NextChannelGames]

NonSpecificGuy brings up a good point.


As long as Incineroar gets revealed before the next music update, technically both Vergeben and Music Theory can both be correct when all is said and done, but we'd be in need of a Direct.


............Minecon's on Saturday, boiz.


We got a Direct announcement at EVO, it's crazy, but it's not impossible.

A Nintendo Direct at Minecon?

....It’s not Impossible but would be pretty interesting.

 

[Noipoi]

First off, your avatar is awesome. I know you've had it a bit, but I'm a mobile user and only just zoomed in.

Second, I don't think Verg needs defending. Entertaining the idea of music theory is not an attack on him. It's just saying "hey, this still could be true, let's not write it off entirely". I think he's the best bet as far as theorizing goes, I just also don't think music theory (or box theory for that matter) are idiotic. They have patterns with logical reasons for why they may have occurred (not just "hey, a pattern! Maybe it'll hold up for no apparent reason")

Aww thank you so much!

And I don't think music theory in itself is stupid, I just don't buy it personally, and i'm just really not looking forward to bringing up Incineroar only for someone to say "Incineroar's not in, music theory disconfirmed him". Shutting down speculation was dumb with the box and it would be dumb here too.

Seriously though, thank you I spend a lot of time on my avatars!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

All the "Music theory" ever was to me was a set of coincidences.

Today's music update changes nothing for me since I never really took much stock into it to begin with.

This. It's the same with box theory and blog theory really.

Don't believe in false prophets. Nihilist theory is the one true theory /s except not /s because I kinda mean it

NonSpecificGuy brings up a good point.


As long as Incineroar gets revealed before the next music update, technically both Vergeben and Music Theory can both be correct when all is said and done, but we'd be in need of a Direct.


............Minecon's on Saturday, boiz.


We got a Direct announcement at EVO, it's crazy, but it's not impossible.

If we get a Direct announcement at ****ing Minecon I'll change my signature and replace "mr. leakerman" with "blockhead." I'll also up the font so it's visible.

 

[Shroob]

A Nintendo Direct at Minecon?

....It’s not Impossible but would be pretty interesting.

Announcement, not a full Direct I'd wager.



We got a Direct in June on the 12th, and a Direct in August on the 8th.

While I'm not going to say "PATTERN!!111!!!", I've always thought that another Direct in early October was reasonable enough due to this.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Aww thank you so much!

And I don't think music theory in itself is stupid, I just don't buy it personally, and i'm just really not looking forward to bringing up Incineroar only for someone to say "Incineroar's not in, music theory disconfirmed him". Shutting down speculation was dumb with the box and it would be dumb here too.

Seriously though, thank you I spend a lot of time on my avatars!

You drew your avatar yourself? That makes it all the more impressive really. Good job.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I was always wary of going all-in on the music theory, and I might aswell say the blog theory aswell, as I really don't believe Sakurai would show his hand in such an obvious manner, these things that come directly from the Smash team always has a chance to change and throw us off, as they've done many times for past games aswell.

It's obviously held true until now, longer than I expected it to, but I feel like this is the end of it, I don't doubt Vergeben, and in the 1% chance that he's wrong a Pokémon newcomer is still very likely. It's not a hard disproval of the theory just yet, but it's just a matter of time imo.

It's only good for speculation if we can get rid of some of these theories that only limit us too, hopefully the box theory follows after the next presentation, whenever that might be.