Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MSmariosonic]

The Geno desire is something I will never understand

Not hating at all but it's just a curious case for me how a side-character, in not even a main-line Mario game, gets so much support for a spot on the smash roster

The comparisons made to Ridley and K. Rool shouldn't even be made

Again not trying to throw any shade

 

[Gentlepanda]

It's European release, which was a VC release, is older than most kids, and that was like 2007 right?

double reminder that anyone born in 2007 is now around or approaching 12 years old

 

[CannonStreak]

Are we really trying to say 12 year olds would know about a character from a game from 1996?

I'd say it is possible, but not through playing a game from the time it came out. Perhaps through rerelease or hearing through the internet or real life, something like that. But you knew that.

 

[Primal Cookie]

Are we really trying to say 12 year olds would know about a character from a game from 1996?

I'm 14. That means that I don't know anything about games that came out before 2004, right?

 

[Deleted member]

Please don't do that.

I'm only reminding people of the great modern sequels to classic video game franchises.

in all honesty, I thought that N&B was a good game and far better then Tooie was.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The Geno desire is something I will never understand

Not hating at all but it's just a curious case for me how a side-character, in not even a main-line Mario game, gets so much support for a spot on the smash roster

The comparisons made to Ridley and K. Rool shouldn't even be made

Again not trying to throw any shade

I've asked friends who like Geno why they like him as he isn't even important to the game's story or gets a character arc unlike Mallow. I just don't get it either

 

[MBRedboy31]

That's not really knowing something though. If someone asks me "Hey, that colleague of yours is pretty hot, you know them?" I'd go "Sir please leave" and then "I don't know her other than by name". It's like if I showed a pic of my Baltan Figuart and they later saw Baltan in something they'd go "Hey that's the thing Gwen posted" and not "Oh cool Baltan from Ultraman"

Although tbf you could argue I'm arguing semantics as you know what it DOES look like I'm doing that

There’s still a pretty big difference between at least knowing what the character looks like when people are talking about it and knowing *absolutely* nothing about the name you see constantly being thrown around. Google does exist of course, but having to look it up in the middle of a forum conversation isn’t really the same, is it?

 

[Deleted member]

Are we really trying to say 12 year olds would know about a character from a game from 1996?

I was born in 2001 but i mostly saw cartoons from the 90s or even the 80s on TV.

I was born after the original TMNT cartoon, the 90s Marvel shows, the DCAU, the Mask cartoon, Ducktales, Darkwing Duck and even Inspector Gadget. Yet channels like Jetix, Toon Disney, Televisión Canaria or even Cartoon Network at times did so many reruns of those, that they managed to be part of my childhood alongside stuff like Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers Earth Mightiest Heroes, Batman:Brave & the Bold, TMNT 2003, and many more.



Born after something =/= lack of knowledge about it.

 

[CannonStreak]

The Geno desire is something I will never understand

Not hating at all but it's just a curious case for me how a side-character, in not even a main-line Mario game, gets so much support for a spot on the smash roster

The comparisons made to Ridley and K. Rool shouldn't even be made

Again not trying to throw any shade

I think this Geno thing came up mostly because Sakurai wanted to add him in Brawl. What are the odds of people wanting him, let alone talking about him if Sakurai never wanted him in or said anything about it?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think this Geno thing came up mostly because Sakurai wanted to add him in Brawl. What are the odds of people wanting him, let alone talking about him if Sakurai never wanted him in or said anything about it?

Doesn't that Ayumi Tachibana girl have the same thing going for her? That actually makes a ton of sense

 

[Deleted member]

The Geno desire is something I will never understand

Not hating at all but it's just a curious case for me how a side-character, in not even a main-line Mario game, gets so much support for a spot on the smash roster

The comparisons made to Ridley and K. Rool shouldn't even be made

Again not trying to throw any shade

Mostly because he's emblematic of SMRPG, being an exclusive character from that game and that game only. That game was also a major part of a bunch of people's childhoods.

Basically, nostalgia and a cool design is what I can glean from hanging out in the Geno thread for a little bit.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I mean, I'm 14. That means that I don't know anything about games that came out before 2004, right?

I mean, any game from 2004 you can still get your hands on because they were madr in thr same decade. but 2007 from 1996? They will say "Geno" because they will peeps talk about him but say "idk where hes from" because, again, the game itself came put in 1996. Well unless someone tells them about the game or they look it up or have that classic console, you get the point

But maybe Im not making any sense

 

[CannonStreak]

Doesn't that Ayumi Tachibana girl have the same thing going for her? That actually makes a ton of sense

You mean the Japanese schoolgirl detective from the Famicom days? I think she does have the same going for her. Maybe not as much as Geno, but still.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You mean the Japanese schoolgirl detective from the Famicom days? I think she does have the same going for her. Maybe not as much as Geno, but still.

Yeah, Sakurai has said he wanted to add her in Melee but opted out for whatever reason and that made people want her in. Similar to other considered characters like Takamaru and arguably Chorus Kids

 

[CannonStreak]

Yeah, Sakurai has said he wanted to add her in Melee but opted out for whatever reason and that made people want her in. Similar to other considered characters like Takamaru and arguably Chorus Kids

I think the reason was because she was a very old character and not someone who may have been familiar with to a lot of people. If that wasn't it, then maybe being Japan-only was a factor, even though we had Marth and Roy in Melee who were Japan-only at the time? Maybe the Japan-only thing was mostly after Melee, I am not sure, but I am mostly sure it is for being an old character, if I am not wrong.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

story I always heard was that Ayumi and Takamaru got scrapped for not being known to western audiences, but considering Marth, Roy and later Lucas getting in....never bought it

 

[CannonStreak]

story I always heard was that Ayumi and Takamaru got scrapped for not being known to western audiences, but considering Marth, Roy and later Lucas getting in....never bought it

I did bring that up in my last post, but for some reason, I remember reading on the net that she was too old. If I got it wrong, don't ask me why I remember it the way I did.

 

[Primal Cookie]

I mean, any game from 2004 you can still get your hands on because they were madr in thr same decade. but 2007 from 1996? They will say "Geno" because they will peeps talk about him but say "idk where hes from" because, again, the game itself came put in 1996

But maybe Im not making any sense

I understand what you're trying to say, but our interest isn't locked into the new(er) games. My dad still has his SNES from when he was in high school and his N64 from when he was in college, and we would play together on that just as much as we would play on the Wii or Xbox 360. While I personally didn't know who Geno was until Smash speculation, that's because my dad didn't like RPGs so he never showed me the game. While most kids probably don't know Geno because his game is a bit niche (just like the Smash competitive community, huh), if our parents kept their old systems they likely played on them with their kids.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

I did bring that up in my last post, but for some reason, I remember reading on the net that she was too old. If I got it wrong, don't ask me why I remember it the way I did.

I would believe that, but...Ice Climbers, yo

 

[CannonStreak]

I would believe that, but...Ice Climbers, yo

Yeah, I know. It did seem that Sakurai wasn't into adding many retro characters. If he did, we'd certainly have more than Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game and Watch, by extension, right?

Either way, don't ask me why I remember reading that Sakurai said she was too old, okay?

 

[Snorkel the dolphin]

Are we really trying to say 12 year olds would know about a character from a game from 1996?

you know they have youtube too right?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

story I always heard was that Ayumi and Takamaru got scrapped for not being known to western audiences, but considering Marth, Roy and later Lucas getting in....never bought it

Well tbf those were huge fan requests back then in Japan, Takamaru didn't seem to have the same level of popularity

 

[Opossum]

If you want to look at a curious case of importance vs support but in the other direction, just look at Caeda.

- A Pegasus Knight, a class emblematic of Fire Emblem that isn't featured on the Smash roster. Literally the first one in the franchise, too.
- Incredibly important character in Marth's saga and pretty damn popular in the Fire Emblem fandom.
- Circumvents a lot of other issues mounted units may face by being able to fly, solving things like ledge issues.
- Literally Marth's fiancée and later wife.
- Has her own unique signature weapon with the Wing Spear.
- Gets lots of exposure. I'd go as far as to say she gets the most exposure out of any Fire Emblem character that's not from a 3DS game or in Smash. Merchandise, and all.
- The Warriors devs went on record saying they had to put Caeda in the game because "she and Marth need to go hand in hand."
- Incredibly well-written with unique characterization and is an amazing unit gameplay-wise.
- Had decent Smash support between 2009 and 2012, prior to Awakening.
- Sakurai clearly sees her as important because he made her a Legend class primary spirit in Ultimate.


Like honestly if any other character had these credentials they'd be considered a shoo-in.

Caeda for Smash.

 

[osby]

story I always heard was that Ayumi and Takamaru got scrapped for not being known to western audiences, but considering Marth, Roy and later Lucas getting in....never bought it

Melee development was a mess and "not enough time" likely is the reason for most character who was planned and/or thought about. Plus, FE was much bigger than Famicom Detective Club and even then, Roy and Marth were almost going to be Japan-exclusive.

Lucas is just they thought Mother 3 would be localized and it didn't.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If you want to look at a curious case of importance vs support but in the other direction, just look at Caeda.

- A Pegasus Knight, a class emblematic of Fire Emblem that isn't featured on the Smash roster. Literally the first one in the franchise, too.
- Incredibly important character in Marth's saga and pretty damn popular in the Fire Emblem fandom.
- Circumvents a lot of other issues mounted units may face by being able to fly, solving things like ledge issues.
- Literally Marth's fiancée and later wife.
- Has her own unique signature weapon with the Wing Spear.
- Gets lots of exposure. I'd go as far as to say she gets the most exposure out of any Fire Emblem character that's not from a 3DS game or in Smash. Merchandise, and all.
- The Warriors devs went on record saying they had to put Caeda in the game because "she and Marth need to go hand in hand."
- Incredibly well-written with unique characterization and is an amazing unit gameplay-wise.
- Had decent Smash support between 2009 and 2012, prior to Awakening.
- Sakurai clearly sees her as important because he made her a Legend class primary spirit in Ultimate.


Like honestly if any other character had these credentials they'd be considered a shoo-in.

Caeda for Smash.

btw Opossum are you disappointed about Sheeda's spirit like me? I wish she could have been enhanced to a 5 star Warp Staff and Wing Spear spirit

 

[CaptainAmerica]

story I always heard was that Ayumi and Takamaru got scrapped for not being known to western audiences, but considering Marth, Roy and later Lucas getting in....never bought it

The way I read it, each had a slightly different path...

Ayumi and Tak were up for this 'general retro' slot that also included the IC's, Balloon Fighter, and Excitebiker. Sakurai just went with the ICs since they had the most interesting yet workable moveset.

Marth and Roy weren't originally supposed to be in non-Japanese versions of Smash, so that's the difference why they were included but Ayumi wasn't. They slipped in when Ninty just decided to go with it, and as we know... Marth Debuted in Smash Bros.

Lucas' deal was that Mother 3 was supposed to come out and he was to replace Ness for Melee. I think his main reason for getting into Brawl without localization was just that the SSE had a few Mother 3-heavy elements.

Still, Tak's been discounted more recently for overseas obscurity. I think the later editions of the game have been more cognizant of characters being obscure overseas, and why I don't think Lucas or Roy would have been viable newcomers for Ultimate - they mainly got in (and got back as Sm4sh DLC) because they were in before. After all, most Fire Emblem fans don't like Roy - his fanbase is almost entirely Smash-based.

 

[Opossum]

btw Opossum are you disappointed about Sheeda's spirit like me? I wish she could have been enhanced to a 5 star Warp Staff and Wing Spear spirit

>:^(

Speaking of Warp, Lena should've gotten a spirit.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

>:^(

Speaking of Warp, Lena should've gotten a spirit.

I may **** on Shadow Dragon for it's level design but goddamn are Warp Staff and Wing Spear two of the most broken units in the game

 

[CannonStreak]

Melee development was a mess and "not enough time" likely is the reason for most character who was planned and/or thought about. Plus, FE was much bigger than Famicom Detective Club and even then, Roy and Marth were almost going to be Japan-exclusive.

Lucas is just they thought Mother 3 would be localized and it didn't.

That is another possible reason, actually. I mean, Sonic was supposed to get in, but he did not due to time constraints, while Snake was also said to be a character who would get in but did not due to data constraints. Data constraints, time constraints or some other reason, any of those reasons could be a reason why other characters did not get in, alongside being old or Japan-only, maybe.

Either way, I say Sakurai should bring the cut characters from Melee and maybe Brawl and 4 into a future Smash game as playable characters.

 

[Opossum]

I may **** on Shadow Dragon for it's level design but goddamn are Warp Staff and Wing Spear two of the most broken units in the game

I actually think it has really strong map design. Oasis of Magic was kind of icky but the rest I either found average or actually good.

 

[osby]

That is another possible reason, actually. I mean, Sonic was supposed to get in, but he did not due to time constraints, while Snake was also said to be a character who would get in but did not due to data constraints. Data constraints, time constraints or some other reason, any of those reasons could be a reason why other characters did not get in, alongside being old or Japan-only, maybe.

Either way, I say Sakurai should bring the cut characters from Melee and maybe Brawl and 4 into a future Smash game as playable characters.

Not sure if this is a good idea. There is a reason why some characters are dropped. Like, I like Ayumi but her popularity didn't age well and she isn't well-known like more recent "retro reps" like Duck Hunt.

That being said, I'd be more than okay with Dixie Kong or Toon Zelda.

 

[Ignoritus]

I'm not up to speed on current leaks, but since I keep seeing people mentioning the GranBlue Fantasy fighting game I just wanted to point out that Vergeben leaked that months ago in the height of his credibility. Anything which called it could be a simple copycat.

 

[CannonStreak]

Not sure if this is a good idea. There is a reason why some characters are dropped. Like, I like Ayumi but her popularity didn't age well and she isn't well-known like more recent "retro reps" like Duck Hunt.

That being said, I'd be more than okay with Dixie Kong or Toon Zelda.

Meh, it was just a thought, though I would kill for a Dixie Kong and even Toon Zelda, maybe with Tetra thrown in there.

 

[culumon]

I feel like people underestimate kids' propensity to know what things are despite said things existing before they were born. It's not like all physical evidence and information on a thing just disappears from this plane of existence as soon is it comes out. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people on Earth in this present moment who know what Casablanca is were born after Casablanca came out.

 

[GoeGoe]

I can't find any evidence for any of this. Doesn't mean it isn't there but google fu is coming up empty.

Hmm, thanks. So have you collected all music pieces? if so, how many?
I ask because I'm at 875+ something and I still haven't got a milestone achievement. Which supposedly means there's more, yet there don't seem to be a way to obtain more music pieces. Nothing at the shop and all boards are completed. Videos, there's just 9.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I feel like people underestimate kids' propensity to know what things are despite said things existing before they were born. It's not like all physical evidence and information on a thing just disappears from this plane of existence as soon is it comes out. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people on Earth in this present moment who know what Casablanca is were born after Casablanca came out.

Yeah kinda

Especially in this day and age with something called 'the internet'

Some individuals have the decency to look stuff up but the majority of people I assume wouldn't be too familiar to most branches of pop-culture before their era

Hmm, thanks. So have you collected all music pieces? if so, how many?
I ask because I'm at 875+ something and I still haven't got a milestone achievement. Which supposedly means there's more, yet there don't seem to be a way to obtain more music pieces. Nothing at the shop and all boards are completed. Videos, there's just 9.

Ain't a milestone achievement for that sadly.

There seems to be an error where one Mario track won't appear, so getting every song is so far impossible

Heck, clearing every challenge doesn't give you a milestone either so maybe there isn't one for all the songs either

 

[Opossum]

Hmm, thanks. So have you collected all music pieces? if so, how many?
I ask because I'm at 875+ something and I still haven't got a milestone achievement. Which supposedly means there's more, yet there don't seem to be a way to obtain more music pieces. Nothing at the shop and all boards are completed. Videos, there's just 9.

There is no milestone achievement.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

There is no milestone achievement.

From what I hear there is but because one song seemingly got scrapped late in development, the game's waiting for you to have that scrapped song too which is. You know, kinda impossible

 

[GoeGoe]

There is no milestone achievement.

For music pieces?
Hmm, that's weird. How I'm supposed to know that I've completed my music collection then?
As of yet, I couldn't find a specific answer to how many are there.

 

[MSmariosonic]

For music pieces?
Hmm, that's weird. How I'm supposed to know that I've completed my music collection then?
As of yet, I couldn't find a specific answer to how many are there.

876

So you seem to be good