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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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DraginHikari

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But it's dead, hasn't had an actual video game since *checks notes* 2014
I suppose the question in this situation is it the character itself or the franchise that makes the character retro. I mean Simon appeared in the first two games (Simon's Quest was released in '88 in NA) then he appeared in the revamp Super Castlevania 4 then didn't appear again till a cameo in Harmony of Dissonance in 2002. Is the fact that Castlevania went on after him change that. I suppose it's kind of a subjective definition. Somebody 10-15 years younger then me probably has an entirely different view on what Retro is.
 
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GoeGoe

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TIBBY STILL HAS A CHANCE MAN

DON'T RUIN EVERYTHING FOR ME
I said "who's that!?", then googled it.. XDDD (I really laughed) Alright, I'm all in for silly looking characters.
That's one however, you said most, so handover 2 or 3 more if you may :)
I mean, real talk, I'd be super happy if Boo got in as a playable fighter. I think Boo has a lot of potential to be a fun character.
You know, as much as I'm excited about trying Piranha and how fresh that was, not so keen on having regular enemies on Smash as playable. Truely shows Nintendo's scooping the bucket's bottom. However, you got me with the Boo. I think fans will only let it slide if it was King Boo though, if ever. If that door is open (which honestly I don't wish it does), I'd like Shy Guy and Kamek too :)
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I'm surprised I didn't get feedback for my 10 worsts games, especially the last three entries...
I saw DmC on there and was instantly reminded that I'm the only person on the face of the planet who doesn't dislike that game. So.
 

Dee Dude

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I think the beef have with recent/new characters is if they come from a pre-existing series like Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing or whatever, the most case where I do see most people advocating a "recent" is if they come from a fresh brand new IP like ARMS which was why I was a bit disappointed and shocked about Spring-Man's deconfirmation.
 

Idon

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simon hasn't been the protagonist of a main series castlevania game since castlevania 4, his only other major appearance was in a fighting game nobody wants to bring up

he uses his classic barbarian design featured on the original box art rather than the modern red hair design everyone dislikes, his walk animation is deliberately intended to mimic the very awkward nes sprites, and his weapons behave exactly like they did in the original games. the monsters in the dracula's castle stages are also very obscure bosses from the first few games rather than anything from richter's game or even some of the franchise's more memorable, unique monsters (though dracula is still based on some of his more famous incarnations rather than the sprites)

its very deliberately a retro throwback to the original 4 castlevania games, with richter there as a bonus for those who liked the stuff from symphony of the night. he's a retro character, but not in the same way as rob or game and watch
Well that's because Simon's DEAD.
ALL OF THE BELMONTS ARE.
They kinda age and die which makes them difficult to put in a franchise with 100 year timeskips.

So you're saying he's not a retro character in terms of the other retro characters but he's a retro character in this very specific definition of a retro character that involves explicitly not being the main protagonist? Even if every move he does carries onto the other protagonists and he appears in other spinoff games?

Is MARTH a retro pick then? If so, then sure, I guess under this hyper-specific definition, he's retro.
 
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Bionichute

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Well that's because Simon's DEAD.
ALL OF THE BELMONTS ARE.
They kinda age and die which makes them difficult to put in a franchise with 100 year timeskips.

So you're saying he's not a retro character in terms of the other retro characters but he's a retro character in this very specific definition of a retro character that involves explicitly not being the main protagonist? Even if every move he does carries onto the other protagonists and he appears in other spinoff games?

Is MARTH a retro pick then?
i think you're missing the entire point dude

he is deliberately based on classic simon by design, instead of modernizing him with the new design and such. he's heavily retro inspired, rather than actually being retro, its like how pac-man is undeniably a retro character in smash 4, but isn't technically retro
 

Dannish

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hey HEY, at least one of them got trained had a brief sparing session with the undead spirit of one of their past incarnations or something like that

In fact I don't even remember in which game that happened
Twilight Princess
 

Blargg888

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I'm surprised I didn't get feedback for my 10 worsts games, especially the last three entries...
So you really were just trying to start **** eh?

I said "who's that!?", then googled it.. XDDD (I really laughed) Alright, I'm all in for silly looking characters.
That's one however, you said most, so handover 2 or 3 more if you may :)

You know, as much as I'm excited about trying Piranha and how fresh that was, not so keen on having regular enemies on Smash as playable. Truely shows Nintendo's scooping the bucket's bottom. However, you got me with the Boo. I think fans will only let it slide if it was King Boo though, if ever. If that door is open (which honestly I don't wish it does), I'd like Shy Guy and Kamek too :)
Thing about generic enemies getting in Smash is that:
a. I think only Mario could get away with it. (Note: I don't think of the Pokemon in Smash as generic enemies, that goes for all of them.)
b. Even within Mario, I feel like only a few characters could get away with it. Boo, Koopa, Goomba(s), Shy Guy, Piranha Plant, and Hammer Bro are the only ones I can really see working out in the long run.

Honestly, I just really like Boos. I think it'd be cool. King Boo I suppose would have a bit more to draw from though.
 

Admiral Pit

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Anything new or something happening that I've missed for the past like 12 hours or so, or will it not be answered yet again?
 

DraginHikari

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As punishment for your crimes you must beat Order of Ecclesia. Hard mode. With the level 1 cap
Better then I have I suppose. I've played the first two games on the NES and that's about as far into the series that I ever got lol
 
D

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I saw DmC on there and was instantly reminded that I'm the only person on the face of the planet who doesn't dislike that game. So.
Hey, at least the definitve addtion made the combat better. Now if only they put more effort into making the writing good.
 

xAquaCrystal

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Can people who want Edelgard explain why? Like, all we've seen is some promotional stuff from Fire Emblem Three Houses at E3 and that's been it. Nothing about the character has really been revealed and I don't see how people can become supportive of a character they just don't know at all and nobody knows?

I guess if there is one area I push back against more when it comes to Smash additions, it's the choosing of unreleased characters to support. Like I understand why Nintendo would make the choice, but not on a fan level...
As a fire emblem fan I don’t WANT her until I get to know her. I think people just jumping the gun of wanting her because her design and she seem to use an axe. Even though I do like those two traits of her that I mention but she not a character I actively want. If she however gets into smash before fire emblem 3 houses is released then I will be ok with her because she will be the first fire emblem character to use a different weapon than a sword in smash.
 

RyuhoFox

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Well... that's not really dead. And plus, requiem tho.

And listen man, if you're popular enough to get a netflix adaptation, I don't think your franchise is dead.
Mega Man was getting stuff like comics and stuff for years but they were declared dead like immediately.
 
D

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So you really were just trying to start **** eh?
Well. Forgive me for sharing what I considered to be bad games. I said that in the post you quoted because I knew the last 3 were going to be controversial among folks here.
 

FreeFox

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It's almost as if Retro Rep was a made up rule from the community that happened to last longer than it probably should have.
Curious enough, the "retro picks" in general were actually chosen more for a surprise factor tan for being retro. Sakurai has mentioned he likes adding unexpected chars. If anything, a surprise pick should be what fans should look out for.

Er, don't twist my words. Pokemon "deserves" every character it gets.

I'm saying character picks like Lucario and Greninja and Incineroar being picks based off of "I think this will be popular so we're pushing it" or "We need an obligatory SM rep so I'm leaving a spot open for later" isn't the way I'd personally go considering characters. Mayb get a group of characters people like and then decide based off of that instead.

Which isn't to say the ones in Smash wouldn't get traction on their own, I just wish that traction would go into consideration more.
But there are too many Pokémon. They have to pick some of them for more important roles. Just based on the leaked images of the SM starters, they had already decided ahead what would Ash capture and eventually evolve. The anime, the depictions in the game, the TCG, portrayal in side games, etc. are all things that need the Pokémon Company to play favorites and pick which ones they think have a bigger chance of gaining a following. Yep, it is a hit and miss strategy but it is a necessary one if we take into consideration how many Pokémon there are. And being fair to Incineroar, he wasnt as obnoxiously pushed as past Pokémon. There are reasons why people though that other Pokémon had a bigger chance than he did. A least going by Sakurai´s words, he liked the character, so it isnt like he was forced to take that one Pokémon. He saw a chance and seized it.

As for the reason, they leave a spot for Pokémon, it probably has to do with the fact that Pokémon is kinda different to other first party games, It is unusual in many ways. Their smash amiibos are less useful than the rest. Pokémon rarely do crossovers and it is hard to find them even in other Nintendo games. They seem to do their own thing most of the time. And considering how big Pokémon is, they probably decide to leave a space for them to put something recent to promote the new games. Mario and Pokémon are the only two franchises who have gotten a newcomer each game because they are the ones that sell the most. The difference is that with Pokémon, the priorities lies within the new toys available rather the old Pokémon from previous gens (unless they are gen 1).
 

Idon

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i think you're missing the entire point dude

he is deliberately based on classic simon by design, instead of modernizing him with the new design and such. he's heavily retro inspired, rather than actually being retro, its like how pac-man is undeniably a retro character in smash 4, but isn't technically retro
Then let me ask you
Is mega-man retro?
 

CrusherMania1592

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My top 10 Worst Games I've Played:
Personas 5
I'm going to ask you to step the **** aside.


Persona 5 is hands down, one of the most well written games of this generation in the PS4 and deserves the high amount of praise it gets. I've played the game 3 times (currently on my third run to try to finish the Platinum trophy but it will take some time) and never got tired of it. The storyline fits the modern day era in a comparison where people aren't doing their job the way they should


If you don't like the game, then something is SERIOUSLY wrong with you
 
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Dee Dude

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I mean, we didn't get any retro reps in 64.
I knew I should've said since 64 lol...

Also, no Mike Jones Spirit? I know there's a lot of obscure Nintendo Spirits in the game but I doubt anyone in NoJ cares or even aknowledges StarTropics lol.

At this point, it'd take a miracle for Mike to ever get in.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Curious enough, the "retro picks" in general were actually chosen more for a surprise factor tan for being retro. Sakurai has mentioned he likes adding unexpected chars. If anything, a surprise pick should be what fans should look out for.
Which is easily Piranha Plant. That ****** was off the walls man.
 

Admiral Pit

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Same old, same old. More The Game Awards rumors.
So I see....

Nothing much other than a possible leak that we're unsure about
So pretty much nothing new or special atm. Thanks for letting me know you two.

And speaking of the Game Awards, I'm likely to skip it and just wait for the results and read about it or so. If something Smash does happen, I'd likely want to know, but something tells me such a thing won't happen.
 
D

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I'm going to ask you to step the **** aside.


Persona 5 is hands down, one of the most well written games of this generation in the PS4 and deserves the high amount of praise it gets. I've played the game 3 times (currently on my third run to try to finish the Platinum trophy but it will take some time) and never got tired of it. The storyline fits the modern day era in a comparison where people aren't doing their job the way they should


If you don't like the game, then something is SERIOUSLY wrong with you
Well, that's the truth. I never could bring myself to like Persona. Sorry man, but it's the truth.
 

Blargg888

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Fun Fact:
If the Smash Ultimate DLC does not contain a Fire Emblem character, then it will be the first set of Smash Bros. character additions to not have one since Smash 64.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Curious enough, the "retro picks" in general were actually chosen more for a surprise factor tan for being retro. Sakurai has mentioned he likes adding unexpected chars. If anything, a surprise pick should be what fans should look out for.


But there are too many Pokémon. They have to pick some of them for more important roles. Just based on the leaked images of the SM starters, they had already decided ahead what would Ash capture and eventually evolve. The anime, the depictions in the game, the TCG, portrayal in side games, etc. are all things that need the Pokémon Company to play favorites and pick which ones they think have a bigger chance of gaining a following. Yep, it is a hit and miss strategy but it is a necessary one if we take into consideration how many Pokémon there are. And being fair to Incineroar, he wasnt as obnoxiously pushed as past Pokémon. There are reasons why people though that other Pokémon had a bigger chance than he did. A least going by Sakurai´s words, he liked the character, so it isnt like he was forced to take that one Pokémon. He saw a chance and seized it.

As for the reason, they leave a spot for Pokémon, it probably has to do with the fact that Pokémon is kinda different to other first party games, It is unusual in many ways. Their smash amiibos are less useful than the rest. Pokémon rarely do crossovers and it is hard to find them even in other Nintendo games. They seem to do their own thing most of the time. And considering how big Pokémon is, they probably decide to leave a space for them to put something recent to promote the new games. Mario and Pokémon are the only two franchises who have gotten a newcomer each game because they are the ones that sell the most. The difference is that with Pokémon, the priorities lies within the new toys available rather the old Pokémon from previous gens (unless they are gen 1).
Actually Sakurai said he doesn't like adding characters for surprise value, but rather just something that works well despite not really being considered
Aren't there laws against cruel and unusual punishment?
No, which is why you're doing 20 no hit run of Castlevania Chronicles. And it isn't Arrange mode
 

Bionichute

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I'm going to ask you to step the **** aside.


Persona 5 is hands down, one of the most well written games of this generation in the PS4 and deserves the high amount of praise it gets. I've played the game 3 times (currently on my third run to try to finish the Platinum trophy but it will take some time) and never got tired of it. The storyline fits the modern day era in a comparison where people aren't doing their job the way they should


If you don't like the game, then something is SERIOUSLY wrong with you
the game's theme doesn't work with the actual characters, its insanely sexist at points, to a hypocritical degree, and it has some bad homophobia and transphobia in it because thats funny in japan

there are like ten better written games this generation
 

DraginHikari

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Well. Forgive me for sharing what I considered to be bad games. I said that in the post you quoted because I knew the last 3 were going to be controversial among folks here.
Well those lists are heavily subjective so there isn't much to say outside of 'I agree or disagree with your opinion'.

I knew I should've said since 64 lol...

Also, no Mike Jones Spirit? I know there's a lot of obscure Nintendo Spirits in the game but I doubt anyone in NoJ cares or even aknowledges StarTropics lol.

At this point, it'd take a miracle for Mike to ever get in.
Mike is pretty obscure even in NA where the games were actually released. I remember the games fondly enough but they were never exactly games I remember everyone playing.
 

GoeGoe

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Thing about generic enemies getting in Smash is that:
a. I think only Mario could get away with it. (Note: I don't think of the Pokemon in Smash as generic enemies, that goes for all of them.)
b. Even within Mario, I feel like only a few characters could get away with it. Boo, Koopa, Goomba(s), Shy Guy, Piranha Plant, and Hammer Bro are the only ones I can really see working out in the long run.

Honestly, I just really like Boos. I think it'd be cool. King Boo I suppose would have a bit more to draw from though.
I'd prefer Boo over King Boo, I really like Boo too, but it's agiven, once that door is open, our boo will shy away from the flood of demands and expectations. I really don't like even the thought of it. I know you see Boo special, but so is every fan on every series enemy.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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So, I want to do an Ode to The Game Awards.

Game Awards. Thank you for handing the reigns over to Geoff Keighley. You handed the keys over to a dude who actually cares about Video Games. To a person that actually realizes that what people who watch these Game Conferences want to see is Video Games. Thank you for not taking time over time to stress the graphics engine or the grass physics used in the games, or a random ass car that's gonna show up in a game. Thank you for being quick and concise. Thank you for giving the fans a voice. Thank you for being a damn good video game conference while adding a great Awards show on top. Thank you.

Seriously, I look forward to The Game Awards more and more every year. In the same way I lack interest in E3 every year.
 
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