Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pyra]

I won't say I care for Isabelle because I don't but you have no idea how glad I was to see her shatter the AT argument for good. Only Skull Kid and maybe Isaac could have done that and I doubt either are getting in even if the Box Theory is false.

See, I both very much love Isabelle's inclusion AND the shattering of that argument.
So it's like... extra Christmas for me.

My forecast only at this point includes Skull Kid and Isaac as potentials in the case that Geno isn't in.

I would be 100% cool with Isaac being an AT and Skull Kid being a boss in "Spirits". The game could release how it is and I'd be totally ecstatic.
Geno could be just a trophy in the game, I'm gonna main Inkling and be totally happy haha.

I just can't wait for the game. And you know, I'm excited to see how they handle DLC if they do.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

For box theory.

Believing it is correct means I have set my expectations and they will not be shattered when I am correct. IF I am wrong, guess what. I get more characters to use in smash. Watch me get upset over being wrong./s



Chairs made no sense. This is an official art piece being sold by the company. Not props. They are different and treating them the same shows a lack of maturity on your part.

Okay, but what if the box is a, oh I dunno, placeholder?

 

[CroonerMike]

i'm starting to wonder what my role was in the speculation community is anymore. I started speculation gradually becoming more open about possibilities through several passionately written analyses, hoping that this speculation period would be my time to not make predicting errors like I did with the last game, being optimistic that Sakurai had more in store for newcomers with his growth as a developer, in contrast with the lower count of new fighter pessimism present in many hardcore speculation communities. Now we get to this plausible situation of box-art that kinda flushes the time I spent on speculation down the toilet. I am not really sure where to go from here. It is certainly an interesting time.

I ragged on you a lot about your rosters but always enjoyed them!

 

[Opossum]

If the box theory ends up being right I'll take the L, if it's wrong everyone who believed it has to take a L. Is that fair?

If the box theory is wrong, I will not only take the L, but I'll be more than happy to have my posts be front and center on the box believer collage that would inevitably be shared around 4chan and the like.

 

[drag0nscythe]

It's not denial more than it is knowing that this wouldn't slip past anybody's radar. As well as the fact that it's boxart that can easily change.

Seriously, treating it as set in stone 3 months before the game releases is really silly.

Given the past, We have had Ganondorf exposed before his time. Lucario leaked.
Nintendo is not perfect. they have made so many mistakes with the past games it is unreal. Expecting them to be perfect is crazy.

This falls in line with what they would do perfectly.

 

[Murlough]

If the box theory ends up being right I'll take the L, if it's wrong everyone who believed it has to take a L. Is that fair?

I've taken enough L's this speculation period thanks.

I'm all for speculation but when everyone thinks 2 characters are left because of a freaking placeholder box it really gets dumb.

OMG THE CHAIRS IT MUST BE SKULL KID lol

Yeaaaaah, I get it. Fair enough.

It would be really bizarre for them to have revealed so much just to solely kill off the hype for 3 months. Knowing the Smash community, everyone would be ripping their hair out over it.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

OMG THE CHAIRS IT MUST BE SKULL KID lol

That is my new favorite Smash meme, just because people think Sakurai is a Trolling mastermind who hides hints in every video presentation, and most of his tweets... Speaking of which, that Golden Sue-esque Image Sakurai posted on twitter is probably nothing... Lot's of RPGs have that Camera angle, just saying.

 

[LetterO]

If the boxart actually leaked anything, Nintendo would've taken it down by now. Just like they did when Ganon and Lucario leaked in Smash 4 and Brawl respectively.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I...don't think Ken and Incineroar being the final reveal is that weird.

One's an iconic character from a series that's a cultural phenomenon, and the other's a darned Pokemon. Sure, they're safe, expected choices to us, but we gotta consider that most people aren't speculation savvy like us. Their reveal won't shake us but it'll definitely reach a far wider audience who actually likely didn't necessarily expect them at all.

Just like Isabelle. Boring to us, but sooooo many people who don't post in enthusiast groups were overwhelmingly happy about her. Incineroar or whoever other Pokemon it is especially is gonna appeal to younger folks.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

i can't wait for everyone who believes in the box to take the L oh man it's gonna be glorious

 

[Meritocracy]

Hm. Am I the only one debating brining up goku just to change the topic off box theory?
Real talk, I'm sure he'd be a great fighter, he just shouldn't be in
EDIT: I swear I know how to spell, I really do

 

[Deleted member]

After sleeping on it, I'm remaining neutral on the box theory. It has some valid points and there's some interesting speculation there, but there are just as many arguments made against it that are good too. However, there isn't anything factual to put down either side right now. All of the "evidence" going around both sides are personal biases, speculation, and opinion. I personally will wait for 100% irrefutable fact before judging what is and isn't fake. Verge is doing well right now, but I still stand by what I said last night: Gematsu was doing well too. Loz was seemingly 100% too. Anything can happen, and to act like everything is set in stone now when it really isn't doesn't make much sense to me.

This is simply my two cents on the matter. People can feel how they wish about this. Opinions are cool.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

See, I both very much love Isabelle's inclusion AND the shattering of that argument.
So it's like... extra Christmas for me.

My forecast only at this point includes Skull Kid and Isaac as potentials in the case that Geno isn't in.

I would be 100% cool with Isaac being an AT and Skull Kid being a boss in "Spirits". The game could release how it is and I'd be totally ecstatic.
Geno could be just a trophy in the game, I'm gonna main Inkling and be totally happy haha.

I just can't wait for the game. And you know, I'm excited to see how they handle DLC if they do.

The thing is, the only character you named that would have a shot at being DLC then would be Geno, and I’m slowly beginning to think he has no shot at ever getting into a Smash game thanks to Squeenix. Sm4sh had no assist trophies upgraded to DLC characters nor did any bosses become DLC characters.
I’m seriously scared that the box theory might be true. That would almost completely kill the hype train, even with DLC on the way. The fact that reputable sources like GameXplain and Source Gaming have come out in support of it makes me even more scared.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

so, Incineroar gets in and is revealed to be the final character... what would be your reaction?

 

[DarkShadow20]

Denial is a powerful thing.
All the math fits. It is 2 left.

This. Anyone thinking otherwise is just getting their hopes up. There is 9 characters in order on one side, then the next 9 on the other side and so on. There's even a spot for Ken on the side we don't see. Then you add Isabelle and Inceneroar on the side we do see and it fits with what Vergeben said.

"B-b-but he said a SE rep". Yes, but he couldn't even get confirmation on who that was. It's possible it's Geno and he was initially planned for the base game, but Square wanted him as DLC instead to get profits off of the sales, just like they got with the Mii costume.

Also, keep in mind every smash game has reveled the hype characters first to prevent their leaks, and then we ended up with disappointments later on. Need I remind you of ROB in Brawl and the ESRB leaked-characters last time? And look at some of the first reveals for their games: Snake and Mega Man, and now we have K Rool, Ridley, and Simon early on this time.

But I wouldn't be too upset because we will be getting DLC, and none of it will be veterans. That's where we will probably see some more ballot choices and iconic third party characters along with advertisement characters.

 

[Pyra]

The thing is, the only character you named that would have a shot at being DLC then would be Geno, and I’m slowly beginning to think he has no shot at ever getting into a Smash game thanks to Squeenix. Sm4sh had no assist trophies upgraded to DLC characters nor did any bosses become DLC characters.
I’m seriously scared that the box theory might be true. That would almost completely kill the hype train, even with DLC on the way. The fact that reputable sources like GameXplain and Source Gaming have come out in support of it makes me even more scared.

Okay, I think the point I was trying to make was "I can't be disappointed so I'm still supporting people I want anyway because it's not hard to do" haha.

 

[Schnee117]

so, Incineroar gets in and is revealed to be the final character... what would be your reaction?

I don't care for it so it'd be meh.
But I have Ridley, the Belmonts, Chrom, Dark Samus and "Everyone is Here"

I really can't complain

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

The box theory is gonna be dropped no matter what, as even if there is two newcomers left, we still got echos which can be classified as newcomers (if you really want to stretch it), so it's basically false on every sense of the word.

 

[LetterO]

This. Anyone thinking otherwise is just getting their hopes up. There is 9 characters in order on one side, then the next 9 on the other side and so on. There's even a spot for Ken on the side we don't see. Then you add Isabelle and Inceneroar on the side we do see and it fits with what Vergeben said.

"B-b-but he said a SE rep". Yes, but he couldn't even get confirmation on who that was. It's possible it's Geno and he was initially planned for the base game, but Square wanted him as DLC instead to get profits off of the sales, just like they got with the Mii costume.

It is boxart. It can be changed just like the banner or website can.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly I think it's hilarious Smash fans look for patterns in absolutely everything and when the box has a consistent pattern that gets broken but theoretically fixed by adding Ken, it isn't a pattern. If it's wrong, I'll be surprised but will hold the L, if it's right, anyone who looked for nonexistent patterns in anything can take the L

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

If you really want to play with the boxeben stuff and try and mash these seperate theories and sources together poorly, the best option is to take a random number generator go between 1-3, 1 is inceneroar, 2 is tapu koko/other alolan mon that no one expected and 3 is geno/zack

I got 2, Tapu Koko lights up the field everyone. There roster over/

 

[Momotsuki]

On my hecking life, are we STILL talking about that goshdarned piece of cardboard!?

 

[Darkraid]

I...don't think Ken and Incineroar being the final reveal is that weird.

One's an iconic character from a series that's a cultural phenomenon, and the other's a darned Pokemon. Sure, they're safe, expected choices to us, but we gotta consider that most people aren't speculation savvy like us. Their reveal won't shake us but it'll definitely reach a far wider audience who actually likely didn't necessarily expect them at all.

Just like Isabelle. Boring to us, but sooooo many people who don't post in enthusiast groups were overwhelmingly happy about her. Incineroar or whoever other Pokemon it is especially is gonna appeal to younger folks.

Kinda suck that we know almost all the roster and we still have 3 months left

 

[drag0nscythe]

If the boxart actually leaked anything, Nintendo would've taken it down by now. Just like they did when Ganon and Lucario leaked in Smash 4 and Brawl respectively.

But it is not leaking anything. We do not know who the last two characters are. We just know there are two left.

i can't wait for everyone who believes in the box to take the L oh man it's gonna be glorious

How spiteful of you.

 

[Fastblade5035]

so, Incineroar gets in and is revealed to be the final character... what would be your reaction?

cool for the people who like him

 

[Frostwraith]

Honestly, with a 70+ character roster, I don't know what more do people want. The roster is already absolutely huge as is and if the currently known roster was the final, it would already be an insane roster. But we're getting more and potentially even more through DLC and other updates. I don't think anyone here is appreciating the magnitude of that.

You all are wanting to be right but I know for sure I won't be taking any Ls here because I don't peddle baseless speculation and conspiracy theories unlike a large chunk of this fanbase.

How about we look at the facts? How about we look on what is actually known about the development process of the Smash games via Directs, blog posts from official sites and Sakurai's Famitsu columns? You can look at boxes or chairs. I'll stick with the facts.

 

[Meritocracy]

so, Incineroar gets in and is revealed to be the final character... what would be your reaction?

'Pends, just for base roster or for the game in it's entirety?

 

[osby]

so, Incineroar gets in and is revealed to be the final character... what would be your reaction?

Could have been better but worth it for watching old school/hardcore fans freaking out.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Honestly I think it's hilarious Smash fans look for patterns in absolutely everything and when the box has a consistent pattern that gets broken but theoretically fixed by adding Ken, it isn't a pattern. If it's wrong, I'll be surprised but will hold the L, if it's right, anyone who looked for nonexistent patterns in anything can take the L

You honestly expect the Smash community to take the L?

 

[Curious Villager]

Given the past, We have had Ganondorf exposed before his time. Lucario leaked.
Nintendo is not perfect. they have made so many mistakes with the past games it is unreal. Expecting them to be perfect is crazy.

This falls in line with what they would do perfectly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Nintendo try to cover up both those leaks soon after they were discovered?
Have they done something similar with the whole box thing yet?

 

[SamDunk]

I'm not really understanding the math behind the box theory. If there are 36 characters on each side of the box, that only adds up to 72. If you count Echoes as separate characters (as the box art clearly does), we already have more than 72 characters. It's totally possible I'm missing something, but doesn't that prove the box art is going to have to be changed anyway?

 

[Murlough]

so, Incineroar gets in and is revealed to be the final character... what would be your reaction?

Hype. Of all the Gen 7s left he would be the most fun in my opinion.

Smash could use a true grappler character, so long as he isn't degenerate. Incineroar also can express himself just as much as other characters in the cast. IF he was the final character, I'd be totally cool with it.

 

[Deleted member]

On my hecking life, are we STILL talking about that goshdarned piece of cardboard!?

I hope you like boxes, cause this is pretty much gonna be the thread for the next 5-to-6 weeks.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

'Pends, just for base roster or for the game in it's entirety?

In the base game

 

[Spinosaurus]

Kinda suck that we know almost all the roster and we still have 3 months left

Oh yeah, if we're talking about the reveal pacing in general, it is suuuuper off.

I just don't agree a Pokemon and Ken aren't good reveals to round the roster off.

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

The amount of people seemingly getting bent out of shape over others believing in the box theory and later possibly being surprised instead of disappointed if it turns out false is baffling...

It's not hurting anyone and is the more logical approach given the evidence we do have that Scoliosis, Vaanrose and others have pointed out so I don't see the problem. Just a lot of denial IMO with no actual arguments against. Only thing I've really seen over the last 20 - 30+ pages is "I don't want to believe it because I don't want this to end up being true" or some similar reasoning.

 

[drag0nscythe]

It is boxart. It can be changed just like the banner or website can.

And alot of effort went into the boxart that was made by nintendo with a purpose that we have mentioned many times. Why bother with the order, or the skipping of space, etc.

There are to many deliberate choices being made with it to be a simple stock image.

And if you take into account many side items, it all makes sense.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Nintendo try to cover up both those leaks soon after they were discovered?
Have they done something similar with the whole box thing yet?

Those were characters. A direct reference. This is box art with many ifs attached. They do not need to do anything.

 

[Darkraid]

I'm not really understanding the math behind the box theory. If there are 36 characters on each side of the box, that only adds up to 72. If you count Echoes as separate characters (as the box art clearly does), we already have more than 72 characters. It's totally possible I'm missing something, but doesn't that prove the box art is going to have to be changed anyway?

Wii fighters and pokemon trainer count as 1

 

[Loz18-Echo]

Someone on 4chan said this so credit to whoever it was

If we're going to believe this, then there'd only be 2 left, since Echos are clearly shown on that box to be in separate "slots" and counting echos we have 70 slots. The about page says 72, but it's counting Miis as 3 while they're only one on the box there.

All that said, this isn't the first time they mislead with their marketing.
They've updated their marketing with new characters constantly. Pic related is an actual pamphlet they handed out at stores, and it's already outdated.

 

[Questionmark222]

After sleeping on it, I'm remaining neutral on the box theory. It has some valid points and there's some interesting speculation there, but there are just as many arguments made against it that are good too. However, there isn't anything factual to put down either side right now. All of the "evidence" going around both sides are personal biases, speculation, and opinion. I personally will wait for 100% irrefutable fact before judging what is and isn't fake. Verge is doing well right now, but I still stand by what I said last night: Gematsu was doing well too. Loz was seemingly 100% too. Anything can happen, and to act like everything is set in stone now when it really isn't doesn't make much sense to me.

This is simply my two cents on the matter. People can feel how they wish about this. Opinions are cool.

This. I can only approve something that states the truth.