Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Captain Fun]

I thought origins and legends did great, they were certainly critically acclaimed. You literally couldn't get away from them they were being so hyped up

They were brilliant games, but I remember Origins opening poorly and Legends had trouble too. I remember people blaming legends poor sales on everything from the Wii U flopping to Nintendo fans being burned by the fact that the game was no longer exclusive.

Being a popular Smash pick =/= being iconic in the industry

That's fair enough, but just because Y is more Iconic than X doesn't mean X isn't iconic. Not that I'm trying to bolster Banjo's status or anything.

Neither were Pit, Ice Climbers, Little Mac, or Megaman. Banjo and Kazooie at least have the iconic part going for him. More so than ice Climbers or Pit. This is a non argument.

Well I'm not arguing.

This has become a mess for me to keep track of.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, I'm at the point where I already got pretty much everything I want in this Smash.

All I really want now are Isabelle and Ken, both probably being Echoes.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Neither were Pit, Ice Climbers, Little Mac, or Megaman. Banjo and Kazooie at least have the iconic part going for him. More so than ice Climbers or Pit. This is a non argument.

Pit, Ice Climbers and Little Mac are owned by Nintendo, they can put whoever they want, it's their game.
Megaman 11 is releasing pretty soon, so your "he's not relevant either" doesn't apply.

 

[domriver]

so if any video is posted im sure this will be the place to check it out? lol :X

 

[Jim_Puff]

If sales numbers is what dictates who's getting in Smash, well then I better see some Fortnite and Minecraft representation

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If sales numbers is what dictates who's getting in Smash, well then I better see some Fortnite and Minecraft representation

Not before we get a playable Tetromino.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Roy being practically an advert,

So which characters are Spring Man and Rex going to be last-minute clones of? Because that's the only situation where using Roy as an example isn't a false analogy. Only something like the Octolings comes close to being a valid comparison.

 

[Pacman High Tier]

Legends sold well. Ubisoft continue to prop it up with their games like The Crew when you use uPlay (shudder). It's frequently on sale too. I think it's become a player's choice type game for ubisoft. It's not that sales matter for smash but I'm just saying that if legends bombed then ubisoft wouldn't show it off so much... which they do.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Being a popular Smash pick =/= being iconic in the industry

Since when has Smash been solely about importance in the industry though?

Because if it is we can cut Bayonetta (not iconic), King K. Rool (not iconic), Corrin (not iconic), Ice Climbers (too obscure), Pit (too obscure), Bowser Jr (too obscure), Olimar (too obscure), Lucas (Japan only), Roy (Japan only), Captain Falcon (too obscure), Jigglypuff (not iconic in Pokemon), and more.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

What makes me mad about Agnes being in the leak is that she isn't even the main character of either games.

It's this guy.

BD's story is more of Agnes' story than it is Tiz's. And Agnes is the poster child of that game, so it wouldn't be a surprise if she got in over Tiz or anyone else from the Bravely series.

 

[PsySmasher]

Just to recap, who's renders were "leaked" today? I only saw the render with Shadow, Chorus Kids, and Agnes.

 

[Aaron1997]

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/super-smash-bros-switch

Ultimate is now Confirmed E10+ which mean's the ESRB knows the roster so expect tons of roster "Leaks" Also Snake and Bayo in a E10+ game LUL

Edit: Actually this might add some credibility to the Image "Leak" since the timing of this is convenient.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Jigglypuff (not iconic in Pokemon

Jigglypuff is a recognisable Pokemon, though.

 

[Fenriraga]

Since when has Smash been solely about importance in the industry though?

Because if it is we can cut Bayonetta (not iconic), King K. Rool (not iconic), Corrin (not iconic), Ice Climbers (too obscure), Pit (too obscure), Bowser Jr (too obscure), Olimar (too obscure), Lucas (Japan only), Roy (Japan only), Captain Falcon (too obscure), Jigglypuff (not iconic in Pokemon), and more.

I wouldn't quite peg Bowser Jr. as too obscure considering his role in the NSMB games, and a lot of people not into Pokemon at least know Jiggs thanks to the anime, but everyone else's point and the argument itself still stands. Just nit picking. :V

 

[Misery Brick]

I think your overselling any Sonic character that isn't Sonic Himself.
Why do you Tails Fans always downplay Shadow. he sure as hell isn't Juri, Shadow is more comparable to Akuma.

Well obviously Sonic is more popular than any of his affiliated characters. I'm saying that Juri is a better comparison as they're from different eras of Sonic, like the two are from different eras of SF.
Shadow is more popular, while Tails is more iconic and has seniority. Same with Juri and Ken.

So. Juri and Ken player here. I just want to set the record straight.

Ken is more well known because he came way before Juri, and Juri has more immediately available evidence of a fanbase because she's designed to be a hot, sexual female character and the internet has a fascination with feet. For some reason.

Oh, trust me. I'm a big fan of SF and also a Juri main.
I'm definitely not ignorant to why she's so popular. But I'm using the two to show that just because one is arguably more popular than one character, doesn't mean they hold the same status as the other.

 

[Zippo]

Tiz is the protagonist of the first game and a later party member of the second game. He's got a notable role in both games, though some questions about what he is only gets answered in the second game. I feel his blasé "farm boy" design from the first game usually means he's overlooked at first glance.

Agnes could be regarded as the most important party member in the first game in regards to how she fits into the story. She's also likely the most recognisable character from the game and the one who appears the most in the CGI cutsenes. She's not playable in the second game, but she does have a notable role throughout.

Edea is a party member in both the first and second game, but she's not exactly the main character of either. She has a few moments but it's clear she's not the main focus in the grand scheme of things.

Ahhh makes much more sense to me now, thank you the explanation. Greatly appreciated.

 

[Shroob]

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/super-smash-bros-switch

Ultimate is now Confirmed E10+ which mean's the ESRB knows the roster. Also Snake and Bayo in a E10+ game LUL

Ah yeah, I guess that would mean that the ESRB knows pretty much everything now.

Though, I wonder how 'done' in development Smash is.


Surely it'll be going gold within like, 30-40 days, right?

 

[Jim_Puff]

Just to recap, who's renders were "leaked" today? I only saw the render with Shadow, Chorus Kids, and Agnes.

In addition to them it was, Isaac, Ken, Skull Kid, and Isabelle.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Just to recap, who's renders were "leaked" today? I only saw the render with Shadow, Chorus Kids, and Agnes.

Isaac (done by ArtsyOmni), Isabelle and Skull Kid (based on google-able images), and while not from the same source, the Wave Race guy and two variations of Lloyd, one ugly as sin, one not

 

[Deleted member]

Any Pokemon is recognizable though. Maybe some more than others but anyone who sees a Pokemon can go "yeah that's a Pokemon". Some more than others, obviously,

 

[Deleted member]

If sales numbers is what dictates who's getting in Smash, well then I better see some Fortnite and Minecraft representation

WE JONESY BOYS OUT HERE.

So which characters are Spring Man and Rex going to be last-minute clones of? Because that's the only situation where using Roy as an example isn't a false analogy. Only something like the Octolings comes close to being a valid comparison.

Octolings are for sure, but if we're getting anywhere close to a Xenoblade echo fighter, it's going to be Malos over Shulk no matter what. In the end, we'll just have to see until release as time goes on.

 

[Shroob]

Wait, the Isaac render was done by Artsy Omni?

 

[Fenriraga]

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/super-smash-bros-switch

Ultimate is now Confirmed E10+ which mean's the ESRB knows the roster so expect tons of roster "Leaks" Also Snake and Bayo in a E10+ game LUL

Yeesh, can you imagine being in the ERSB when that one rolled around after 3DS's ESRB leak?

I can't imagine that was a pleasant time at the office.

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac (done by ArtsyOmni

Why are people saying this when he never admitted any involvement? He said it's fake but not because he did it.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

If sales numbers is what dictates who's getting in Smash, well then I better see some Fortnite and Minecraft representation

When's my Tetris rep getting his shot.

 

[Nap_]

Banjo-Kazooie are not as rotten as Ice Climber, the first DKCs, Ocarina of Time or whatever. The ammount of people wouldn't recognize the entire roster, not even Snake or Samus, (how many times she had been mistaken with a robot?) And better if we don't talk about Corrin, Wolf or Palutena .Outside Pokemon, Mario, Sonic, Zelda and maybe Pacman and Street Fighter, the rest is pure hardcore. Smash got 20 years, the gaming story was shorter then and a pretty big part grew up outside Nintendo and consoles. Gaming is now bigger, nobody can play everything. Hell, I had no idea about Metroid or Hearthbound since Smash 64, imagine the kids now.
If we talk about gaming history milestones, Doom should be one of the next steps. And it's not happening.
Banjo-Kazooie was important for N64, the Rare games were loved, Banjo was their flag and got a decent number of fans. Enough for some chances. Same with Agnes.
As someone said before, we got covered some of the biggest shots in gaming history, now comes some downhill. Characters as Agnes or Banjo are possible now.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/super-smash-bros-switch

Ultimate is now Confirmed E10+ which mean's the ESRB knows the roster so expect tons of roster "Leaks" Also Snake and Bayo in a E10+ game LUL

This just means Sakurai removed Bayonetta from the game after the invitational.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

My point still stands that it's an unfair comparison.

Of course the franchise with a lot more games would sell more units. That's not a testament to it being more popular, it's basic logic.

And why hasn't Banjo-Kazooie gotten more games released? Rare is not dead, and Phil Spencer seems pretty chill with the franchise.
They tried 5 times, and out of those, they only got 2 right. I'm not saying BK is bad, their first 2 games were (and still are) pretty ****ING amazing, but they f*cked up with the GBA releases and with Nuts & Bolts (underrated game imo but still didn't make the cut in terms of sales).

Why are we all still waving around sales numbers like they actually mean something?

So you're saying that CoD, GTA, FIFA or Diablo aren't pillars of the industry?!

Since when has Smash been solely about importance in the industry though?

Because if it is we can cut Bayonetta (not iconic), King K. Rool (not iconic), Corrin (not iconic), Ice Climbers (too obscure), Pit (too obscure), Bowser Jr (too obscure), Olimar (too obscure), Lucas (Japan only), Roy (Japan only), Captain Falcon (too obscure), Jigglypuff (not iconic in Pokemon), and more.

Owned by Nintendo. They can put any character from any franchise they own.
Bayonetta is pretty much 2nd party.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

This just means Sakurai removed Bayonetta from the game after the invitational.

Everyone was here

 

[Zippo]

I want to say that I appreciate any character inclusion as it celebrates their fans. I have no idea who Richter or Simon are, I have no real relation to Ridley or K. Rool. But if they are playable, they make their respective fans happy, and that's more fun to the party.
Asking "why this and not that" and then insulting "that" while praising "this" is horrible for both sides you created in a comparison that shouldn't even have happened in the first place. It's just like the clone situation back in Smash 4 until we got the Echo naming scheme. The naming wasn't necessary in the first place; the community's divisiveness towards it caused a naming convention to be necessary.

Please don't hate _____ supporters for wanting or getting something they wanted over what you want because you're a _____ supporter... Because if you want to tell me that in this big roster of nearly 70 characters you don't have a single character that you love already in it then you really aren't a Smash fan.
Why?
Because being a Smash fan also means loving a character you never knew you'd love to play as.
That's the beauty of Smash.

Banjo and Kazooie are beautiful characters.
So is Agnès.

Let's stop with the hating on each other and have a nice day.

This is now officially my favorite post on this site, ever. Thank you.

 

[Noipoi]

We've been talking about this one fake leak for more than 12 hours.
I'm not trying to direct the conversation or anything, I just thought that was funny.

 

[Zathura]

When's my Tetris rep getting his shot.

I honestly think that would be cool if it was somehow done well. Tbh I just want a Tetris stage

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't know much about the Bravely series, but wasn't Agnes the most promoted character, at least for the first game?
At least I recall her getting a figurine as a pre order bonus or something during one of the Nintendo Directs. (At least in Europe)

 

[MainJPW]

Not to mention with Sonic not even being a part of the project plan of Brawl's and being added mid-development

Sonic WAS a part of the project plan, initially SEGA said no then changed their minds.

https://sourcegaming.info/2017/01/17/on-character-selection-brawl/

 

[True Blue Warrior]

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/super-smash-bros-switch

Ultimate is now Confirmed E10+ which mean's the ESRB knows the roster so expect tons of roster "Leaks" Also Snake and Bayo in a E10+ game LUL

If that page doesn't confirm that Smash Ultimate is heavily focused on an older audience, I'm not sure what does. Which makes sense given how a large portion of Switch owners fall within the 20-30 year old demographic.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

We've been talking about this one fake leak for more than 12 hours.
I'm not trying to direct the conversation or anything, I just thought that was funny.

I think that's just telling of how starved the community actually is for visual leaks

 

[IGuessItsOver]

That's fair enough, but just because Y is more Iconic than X doesn't mean X isn't iconic. Not that I'm trying to bolster Banjo's status or anything.

Banjo-Kazooie IS well-known, no one can refute that, but not super iconic, more like "mildly iconic".

 

[T-Hell]

When's my Tetris rep getting his shot.

Now that you mention it, I find it incredibly surprising that Tetris is not represented in Smash in some relevant role other than just a trophy, and I'm not even sure if it had a trophy. An AT or a stage could work really good.

 

[Bootortle]

so if any video is posted im sure this will be the place to check it out? lol :X

probably a webm on 4chan or a youtube video

 

[Deleted member]

Sonic WAS a part of the project plan, initially SEGA said no then changed their minds.

https://sourcegaming.info/2017/01/17/on-character-selection-brawl/

Ah, forgot that part. Even then, the point still stands with how that part of development took.