Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[lordvaati]

Spoiler: Saber (Fate/stay night)

I guess visual novels are vidyagames.

Though dark thoughts linger as I want to make, you know who...

Well yeah, that's why everyone wants Phoenix Wright so much

 

[Chrono.]

Common mistake my friend, no worries.
He stated "no cuts" but goes on to say Snake and IC's would be returning, implying he didn't mean everyone would return.

The "fighterz leak" was a simple datamine that everyone could do day 1.

That and all the correct SCVI info was from another guy before him.

He put in a bunch of other SCVI info that was hilariously erroneous (Switch version with Link/FE character.)

That said, his Smash stuff is a different situation.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Anyone who doubts Verg at all is only deluding themselves.

It's fair to feel that way but that's a pretty antagonistic way of saying it.

 

[Sharkarat]

Here are the links to the first two
Paper Mario - 47
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Paper-Mari...533434?hash=item1cb78caa3a:g:PukAAOSwNNVbDzoO

Color Splash - 25
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Paper-Mari...194135?hash=item1cb7877cd7:g:xrUAAOSwx0FbhaEJ

US $24.59
https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Ninten...199830?hash=item214415cb96:g:atcAAOSwKARbUgqn
Also I couldn't have bought those cause they doesn't ship to where I live.

 

[Pakky]

Is it the fact that an entire company just as big if not bigger already bought it?

No, no I'm talking about WAY before that like in the thick of the DKC era.

 

[P.Kat]

I think I see a Villager nerf (potentially) here. You all can take a guess.

7:32 - "Her shadow moves with stealth, then disappears into darkness." As a Sheik main, seeing her new Final Smash brings me such joy.

 

[Bladeviper]

That and all the correct SCVI info was from another guy before him.

He put in a bunch of other SCVI info that was hilariously erroneous (Switch version with Link/FE character.)

That said, his Smash stuff is a different situation.

he also got tmnt in injustice 2 which is a stupid thing to fake if you are faking a leak

 

[Zinith]

How about a game until a new major leak pops up? (I have an odd hunch we'll know everything about the game by late September and a September or October direct will confirm some big controversial leak)

You can add up to 4 new characters, literally anyone you want that has appeared in a video game before (yes, even shrek or Goku, but preferably from a Nintendo console game or handheld), but you have to axe a character from each previous SSB game.

To get your first character, you must remove someone from Smash for Wii U/3DS. That character will also no longer appear in Ultimate so choose carefully!! To get your second character, you now also have to remove a character from Brawl (and they wouldn't appear in any future games, including Ultimate!). To get your third character, go back to Melee, and if you want that final character you need to axe an original 12.

You can choose to add up to 4, but don't need to add 4. I'll go now as an example:

Character 1: Banjo-Kazooie
Character to Cut for Banjo-Kazooie (reminder, first character cut is from Wii U/3DS and is also removed from Ultimate): Dark Pit
Character 2: Doom-Guy
Character to be cut for Doom-Guy: Toon Link
Character 3: Sylux
Character to be cut for Sylux: Pichu
Character 4: N/A
Character to be cut for N/A: Not Applicable (Never want to cut an original 12 personally)

I want to see who you guys would want to add and who you would remove to get them.

Just note that this is merely a game. I don't actually want to cut characters, nor do I hate the characters I cut.

Character 1: Boshi
Character to cut for Boshi: Lucina
Character 2: Skull Kid
Character to cut for Skull Kid: R.O.B.
Character 3: Elma
Character to cut for Elma: Dr. Mario
Character 4: Mike Jones
Character to cut for Mike Jones: Jigglypuff

 

[domokl]

The "fighterz leak" was a simple datamine that everyone could do day 1.

Wrong, he said certain DLC characters were in WAY before Fighterz was released, here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonballfighterz/comments/7caav2/controversial_dlc_leaks_inside/
Here he leaks Broly, Base Goku, and Base Vegeta being dlc before the game’s launch. Broly is an easy guess, but the base Saiyans were not.

 

[RandomAce]

Haha, looking back it all, I feel that you guys got the message a little wrong when I read your discussions.

Here’s a gif to sum up my point:

I know there are a lot of people that have been asking for some characters for years, even more than a decade, I understand it since a character I REALLY want, Isaac, is someone who I’ve supported ever since I began Smash speculation when I was 10 years old and I did felt broken when he wasn’t playable in the base roster nor as DLC. However, you can’t just go “We waited ___ years, it’s our turn now” that just comes off being a entitled and a **** to those who want someone else that isn’t a highly supported character for over a decade. Nor is “If that characters is a one shot, they don’t deserve to get in” which is basically you trying to invalidate other characters and the people who want them.

There’s a reason why I made my point, because Elma and a S/M Pokémon are literally the only two likely unique relevant characters to actually get added in, (unless you want to count Isabelle, which I honestly can only see being an Echo since there’s isn’t much that she actually does). That’s just TWO characters. Yes, character development is scarce, but I can’t imagine people screaming at how those two characters “stole slots” when you can have a potential Free For All with Ridley v. King K. Rool v. Isaac v. Geno. That match up alone is enough to have most people dreams come true, and the best part is that half of this match up is already a reality with the other two likely to come. A majority of the newcomer list consists of fan favorites and it’s still likely there are more to come, even Simon probably had a lot of fans but didn’t speak up because of the whole fiasco with Konami.

Not to mention there ARE a lot fans of Elma and the various S/M Pokémon that will be happy when either come too, allowing as many fans as possible to get what they want.

Let people support who they want without trying to invalidate others by making up quotas or rules, instead come up with better arguments to counter or support said character and try to look at the charcater in question fully.
—————————————————
I’m going to show my prediction roster here, to give an idea on what I think the roster will turn out.

64. Inkling
65. Ridley
66. Simon
67. King K. Rool
6X. Elma
6X. Lycanroc
7X. Isaac
7X. Geno
7X. Banjo and Kazooie

7X. Rhythm Heaven?
7X. Fan Favorite?

 

[Deleted member]

I don't just doubt but completely disbelieve Verg, and I'm not deluding myself. Next please

I wouldn't say it's deluding, his record isn't perfect. But to completely dismiss him because of that is definitely where it gets silly.

He's gotten nothing wrong and everything from his initial leak came true. Stop being in denial.

It's fair to feel that way but that's a pretty antagonistic way of saying it.

I'm only saying what the truth is, I saw this happen twice before with Smash 4 and I hate when people don't learn from their mistakes.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

oh what characters did they leak?

He specifically said that Ridley would be an E3 reveal.

Aside from that, he got Ice Climbers, Snake, Wolf, Simon Belmont and the entire Smash 4 roster.

 

[SmashChu]

Anyone who doubts Verg at all is only deluding themselves.

All you need to do is look at his history. A comment from a Reddit thread puts it into perspective.

To be fair, he may have had a bunch of legitimate leaks once for a bunch of games. Specifically for Soul Calibur, the fact the game existed, certain (obvious) roster characters returning, and the inclusion of a new, twinblade wielding character (Grøh).
But after these initial leaks the well dried up, his source was fired or cut off contact. Outside of those few notes, he's been wrong about basically everything else Soul Calibur related. His most recent claims were the most outlandish, implying the community could force Project Soul to make changes if they spoke loud enough, in some crude attempt to rally the fans to some kind of personal army.
Its to the point now where his accurate "leaks" are smaller than his inaccurate claims.

Source(https://www.reddit.com/r/SoulCalibur/comments/84mkxk/its_official_vergeben_knows_nothing/). He's gotten a lot more wrong since then. Also notice how he's becoming more active. Could easily be a similar situation. First stuff is good and everything else is bad and done for attention.

 

[Chrono.]

he also got tmnt in injustice 2 which is a stupid thing to fake if you are faking a leak

I always forget that one lol.

But on that subject, a leak shouldn't really be determined to be fake or real because of the characters in it.

TMNT isn't that out there of a choice, being that it's a franchise that also started out as a comic book much like the rest of the cast except Sub-Zero.

 

[domriver]

Team "Whichever one gets me Geno."

i second that!

 

[Rayman001]

oh what characters did they leak?

Also, because nobody said it yet, the characters he "leaked" that aren't confirmed yet are Ken as a Ryu echo, Isabelle from Animal Crossing, a character from Square Enix and a Gen 7 Pokémon that is neither Lycanroc nor Decidueye. He also said Minecraft will be represented in some way.

Did I forget anything?

 

[Garteam]

Anyone who doubts Verg at all is only deluding themselves.

I wouldn't go this far. Verge is reliable but he's far from consistently perfect. DBZ Fighters is a great example, he got most of the base roster and DLC right (including Base Goku and Vegeta), but he didn't predict Zamasu and he predicted Raditz and Zarbon. I think its completely fair to have some doubt in Vergeben, but I do agree that he is worth listening to.

 

[Bladeviper]

I always forget that one lol.

But on that subject, a leak shouldn't really be determined to be fake or real because of the characters in it.

TMNT isn't that out there of a choice, being that it's a franchise that also started out as a comic book much like the rest of the cast except Sub-Zero.

its an out there case imo since the first injustce had no guest characters from other comics, only scorpion. mk had some but they didnt go that route so some people didnt think other comics would get a character or 4 in this case

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

https://m.imgur.com/a/IjeURNL

This is my fantasy, so good stuff to the person who designed these! Imagine if these were real. You just can't say no.

Wow, those are AMAZING, do you know a place where I could do something like this? The Wii Fit one espesscially is way cool, and as a side note, it would be awesome of the series emblem replaced the Nintendo logo

 

[DevaAshera]

He's gotten nothing wrong and everything from his initial leak came true. Stop being in denial.

I'm only saying what the truth is, I saw this happen twice before with Smash 4 and I hate when people don't learn from their mistakes.

People mean other past leaks of his, he has a spotty record, some things come true, some don't.

Believing anything uncertain at face value is foolish, even Gematsu wasn't 100% despite being true.

 

[Bladeviper]

I wouldn't go this far. Verge is reliable but he's far from consistently perfect. DBZ Fighters is a great example, he got most of the base roster and DLC right (including Base Goku and Vegeta), but he didn't predict Zamasu and he predicted Raditz and Zarbon. I think its completely fair to have some doubt in Vergeben, but I do agree that he is worth listening to.

he has said before he has multiple different sources, which makes sense as to why some stuff is wrong and the rest is on point, although this only matters if you believe his claim on that

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

its an out there case imo since the first injustce had no guest characters from other comics, only scorpion. mk had some but they didnt go that route so some people didnt think other comics would get a character or 4 in this case

Yeah, but before TMNT, we got Hellboy.

I'd say expecting stuff like the turtles or Spawn after getting him wasn't far-fetched.

 

[Schnee117]

Doubting Verg is fair, guy is shaky as **** and gets bogus sources, but any leaker worth their salt gets those and it's clear he's learned from his previous experiences. Completely believing or disbelieving him is stupid.

I always forget that one lol.

But on that subject, a leak shouldn't really be determined to be fake or real because of the characters in it.

TMNT isn't that out there of a choice, being that it's a franchise that also started out as a comic book much like the rest of the cast except Sub-Zero.

And they crossed over with Batman before in 2015.

what I'm saying is Elmer Fudd for Injustice 3

 

[Chrono.]

I wouldn't go this far. Verge is reliable but he's far from consistently perfect. DBZ Fighters is a great example, he got most of the base roster and DLC right (including Base Goku and Vegeta), but he didn't predict Zamasu and he predicted Raditz and Zarbon. I think its completely fair to have some doubt in Vergeben, but I do agree that he is worth listening to.

The base roster had an interesting fiasco with him.

Basically he had claimed that Beerus MIGHT be in the game, but any Super content beyond him would be DLC. Even citing Goku Black as one of them. But after a V-Jump scan had made it look like Beerus and Hit were gonna be in the roster, he edited his leak and backtracked on it. Saying those 2 would be in the base roster and Goku Black DLC.

Unfortunately for him, a higher quality version of that scan came out and Goku Black was in it too. Something no one counted on cause the original scan was so blurry all of us assumed it was the recently revealed Kid Buu. Pretty much killed his leak on the spot.

But like I said, that was for FighterZ. With Smash he's been good, so far.

 

[Deleted member]

All you need to do is look at his history. A comment from a Reddit thread puts it into perspective.

To be fair, he may have had a bunch of legitimate leaks once for a bunch of games. Specifically for Soul Calibur, the fact the game existed, certain (obvious) roster characters returning, and the inclusion of a new, twinblade wielding character (Grøh).
But after these initial leaks the well dried up, his source was fired or cut off contact. Outside of those few notes, he's been wrong about basically everything else Soul Calibur related. His most recent claims were the most outlandish, implying the community could force Project Soul to make changes if they spoke loud enough, in some crude attempt to rally the fans to some kind of personal army.
Its to the point now where his accurate "leaks" are smaller than his inaccurate claims.

Source(https://www.reddit.com/r/SoulCalibur/comments/84mkxk/its_official_vergeben_knows_nothing/). He's gotten a lot more wrong since then. Also notice how he's becoming more accurate. Could easily be a similar situation. First stuff is good and everything else is bad and done for attention.

I wouldn't go this far. Verge is reliable but he's far from consistently perfect. DBZ Fighters is a great example, he got most of the base roster and DLC right (including Base Goku and Vegeta), but he didn't predict Zamasu and he predicted Raditz and Zarbon. I think its completely fair to have some doubt in Vergeben, but I do agree that he is worth listening to.

People mean other past leaks of his, he has a spotty record, some things come true, some don't.

Believing anything uncertain at face value is foolish, even Gematsu wasn't 100% despite being true.

His other leaks do not matter at all, I'm talking about Smash, and his Smash leaks have been 100% correct.
If Ken, Isabelle and a SE don't make it in? Then yeah, he was full of **** but there's literally no reason to doubt his claims and his past history with other games is irrelevant.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That is so interesting. I was really into FighterZ speculation and I had no idea it was Verg that was the one the rumors were talking about.

I remember a lot of those "leaks"

 

[SmashChu]

His other leaks do not matter at all, I'm talking about Smash, and his Smash leaks have been 100% correct.
If Ken, Isabelle and a SE don't make it in? Then yeah, he was full of **** but there's literally no reason to doubt his claims and his past history with other games is irrelevant.

If he's been wrong about numerous other titles, sometimes even about certain titles existing, why should I believe he's right here? Even with SC6, when he got some things right, he has been mostly wrong. Why should I not assume it will be the same here. We say "leakers" are trustworth when they get things right but we can't say they are untrustworthy when they get things wrong? I feel like you want to just "listen and believe"

That is so interesting. I was really into FighterZ speculation and I had no idea it was Verg that was the one the rumors were talking about.

I remember a lot of those "leaks"

I'll have to go and look but I believe Verge was guilty of editing his original thread to add information to it from another leak. He also said Goku Black was DLC which was wrong.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Or people just don't care one way or the other if Verg is right. I mean, it changes nothing about the final game, so I don't see why it's worth losing sleep over, regardless of what you think of his potential accuracy.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Haha, looking back it all, I feel that you guys got the message a little wrong when I read your discussions.

Here’s a gif to sum up my point:
View attachment 160197
I know there are a lot of people that have been asking for some characters for years, even more than a decade, I understand it since a character I REALLY want, Isaac, is someone who I’ve supported ever since I began Smash speculation when I was 10 years old and I did felt broken when he wasn’t playable in the base roster nor as DLC. However, you can’t just go “We waited ___ years, it’s our turn now” that just comes off being a entitled and a **** to those who want someone else that isn’t a highly supported character for over a decade. Nor is “If that characters is a one shot, they don’t deserve to get in” which is basically you trying to invalidate other characters and the people who want them.

There’s a reason why I made my point, because Elma and a S/M Pokémon are literally the only two likely unique relevant characters to actually get added in, (unless you want to count Isabelle, which I honestly can only see being an Echo since there’s isn’t much that she actually does). That’s just TWO characters. Yes, character development is scarce, but I can’t imagine people screaming at how those two characters “stole slots” when you can have a potential Free For All with Ridley v. King K. Rool v. Isaac v. Geno. That match up alone is enough to have most people dreams come true, and the best part is that half of this match up is already a reality with the other two likely to come. A majority of the newcomer list consists of fan favorites and it’s still likely there are more to come, even Simon probably had a lot of fans but didn’t speak up because of the whole fiasco with Konami.

Not to mention there ARE a lot fans of Elma and the various S/M Pokémon that will be happy when either come too, allowing as many fans as possible to get what they want.

Let people support who they want without trying to invalidate others by making up quotas or rules, instead come up with better arguments to counter or support said character and try to look at the charcater in question fully.
—————————————————
I’m going to show my prediction roster here, to give an idea on what I think the roster will turn out.

64. Inkling
65. Ridley
66. Simon
67. King K. Rool
6X. Elma
6X. Lycanroc
7X. Isaac
7X. Geno
7X. Banjo and Kazooie

7X. Rhythm Heaven?
7X. Fan Favorite?

Dude. I got Ridley, Wolf back, Pichu of all things, Dark Samus...I'm satisfied with the roster as is. I'm perfectly fine with getting Elma and a S/M Pokemon. If I came off earlier as saying I didn't want them because they're newer then my bad. I'm already content. I have characters both new and old I want to sweeten up the deal. I just personally skew more for older characters because I know what it's like to wait and I want to see all the old fans celebrating.

You gotta chill with your rants lol. It's not that serious.

 

[Zinith]

Did Verg make a new claim in the last day?

 

[Chrono.]

That is so interesting. I was really into FighterZ speculation and I had no idea it was Verg that was the one the rumors were talking about.

I remember a lot of those "leaks"

Yeah, as far as know there's only been two dudes trying to spread FighterZ rumors. Verg and some other guy.

The other guy was just a one and done. They claimed they datamined the game and found all the DLC characters. I don't remember the full list but it had Toppo, Jiren and Kefla. The leak pretty much died when someone actually datamined the game like only hours after and found the avatar data for Broly, Bardock, etc etc.

If he's been wrong about numerous other titles, sometimes even about certain titles existing, why should I believe he's right here? Even with SC6, when he got some things right, he has been mostly wrong. Why should I not assume it will be the same here. We say "leakers" are trustworth when they get things right but we can't say they are untrustworthy when they get things wrong? I feel like you want to just "listen and believe"

Because whoever sources are feeding him the Smash info might be legit, and so far he has been.

Basically, don't blindly believe him, but don't disregard him entirely.

 

[Captain Fun]

Credit where it's due to Verge- he was right about Simon and has been right so far. He hasn't technically been wrong about Smash yet, but:

1: Don't treat what he says as gospel. While he's been right, he's not infallible, and we've seen him be wrong in the past.

2: If and when he is wrong about Smash, don't burn him at the cross. Even leakers with comparatively good track records get things wrong at times and it's not worthwhile to act as if you've been misled.

 

[BlueMagician]

I thought the term casual meant "commonly known and popular among even those that aren't hardcore into games."

If only Smash/Kirby fans really know about Bandanna Dee wouldn't that make him a niece pick not a casual pick?

I kinda held this opinion about Ashley too, as beyond Smash Speculation I NEVER heard about her.

I understand if both are also seen as Japanese picks since like you say they're popular there, but not casual picks.

I don't think being a large niche pick of a large series is a problem - see Ridley, for example. He is apparently less known than Mother Brain to casual players.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I don't think being a large niche pick of a large series is a problem - see Ridley, for example. He is apparently less known than Mother Brain to casual players.

I mean, lets be real. I just think Villains are just coincidentally really popular characters at this point lol.

 

[Garteam]

His other leaks do not matter at all, I'm talking about Smash, and his Smash leaks have been 100% correct.
If Ken, Isabelle and a SE don't make it in? Then yeah, he was full of **** but there's literally no reason to doubt his claims and his past history with other games is irrelevant.

How is his past history irrelevant? There's almost consistently a false part in all of Verge's leaks. He had a perfect record for SC6 until he started talking about the Switch port with Link and an FE character. He had a perfect record for DBZ Fighters until he said Raditz and Zarbon would be DLC. That's also not accounting for his January Direct leak, where he got almost everything wrong except for Dark Souls Remastered and WarioWare Gold.

This is coming from someone who thinks Vergeben does have inside info. However, writing off anyone who has even a sense of skepticism towards Vergeben as "deluded" is fairly questionable.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Remember that any leaker, no matter how reliable, can be smoked out by fake info fed to them from on high at any time.

 

[Deleted member]

How is his past history irrelevant? There's almost consistently a false part in all of Verge's leaks. He had a perfect record for SC6 until he started talking about the Switch port with Link and an FE character. He had a perfect record for DBZ Fighters until he said Raditz and Zarbon would be DLC. That's also not accounting for his January Direct leak, where he got almost everything wrong except for Dark Souls Remastered and WarioWare Gold.

This is coming from someone who thinks Vergeben does have inside info. However, writing off anyone who has even a sense of skepticism towards Vergeben as "deluded" is fairly questionable.

People in this very thread have been saying they "don't trust Verg at all".
It's not skepticism, it's denial.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I mean, lets be real. I just think Villains are just coincidentally really popular characters at this point lol.

I'm not gonna lie I love playing as villains. I can recreate my childhood fantasies of the villains winning and tearing apart the heroes.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

It's not being in denial to be skeptical. It's not delusional to not trust every word from somebody.

This is what I don't like about speculation season. A leaker gets a few things right, and suddenly it's delusional to be wary of some things they say. It's one of main reasons why I don't take the Ultimate board on GFAQs seriously.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Like any other leaker, Verge has every chance to be wrong. When it comes to a lot of other games, he has a shoddy track record. So it's not unreasonable for us to not believe in him 100%.

However, since he hasn't gotten anything explicitly wrong about Ultimate yet, we keep tabs on what he says. It's all a part of speculating responsibly.

Also, Verge is no way near comparable to Gematsu or ESRB. The former had very specific guesses that were proven right, and was only wrong in some areas because the info was gotten at the early stages of Smash 4. The latter, was, well... you know.

 

[Chrono.]

Remember that any leaker, no matter how reliable, can be smoked out by fake info fed to them from on high at any time.

*Remembers the Shovel Knight/Inkling DLC rumor ****show for 4*

Ah yes.