Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[JamesDNaux]

Bomberman < Simon?

Is that a thing?

?

There's not much else I can say other than I disagree about Snake returning being a surefire thing if Konami gets a character.

As for Simon, he's possible but I put stock into Bomberman because Nintendo and Konami worked together on the latest game. That tells me that both Nintendo and Konami have a vested interest in seeing that Bomberman has a future and what better way to ensure that than a Smash appearance (which before anyone brings this up is not a "He has a Nintendo history!" argument)? It's also good for Nintendo's image if they can showcase their improving third-party relationships and Bomberman is the best example they can use.

I don't put any stock in Nintendo "pushing" third party games, that has no bearing on Smash.

Look at Pac-Man, entirely based around his arcade appearance with nothing Nintendo about him, not even a nod towards any of his more recent appearances, entirely retro. They weren't "pushing" Ghostly Adventures.

Look at Mega Man, based almost entirely around his NES games, that's "close to Nintendo" sure, but they're old games with no advertising merit. Sakurai looks to the past, not the future. He didn't have a future to "push" at the time.

Look at Ryu, based heavily on his appearance in Street Fighter 2, same deal as Mega Man, except he actually had more recent games. And even with that, same deal as Snake, his upcoming game at the time was exclusive to non-Nintendo consoles, so Nintendo certainly didn't get anything from that bargain, zero to do with "pushing" for Nintendo.

Look at Snake and Cloud, self explanatory.

The only possible argument for recency/future with third parties is Bayonetta, and she was a special case with the ballot.

I mean really, it could be either Simon or Bomberman, but when it comes down to it, Castlevania is the bigger series.

And Metal Gear beats the ever loving hell out of both of them and Snake is a veteran, so there's no way Konami would offer anyone else before Snake unless they really don't want him to return just to spite Kojima.

 

[Morbi]

Something interesting to think about: It was once said that, in Melee, Marth was purposely made to be a good character. In Brawl, it would seem the same applied to Meta Knight. In Smash Wii U, Cloud seems to have been blessed as well. Is it just me, or does Sakurai like making OP sword characters? If this is true, who will be the blade wielding hero in the next game?

Oh, yeah, because Link, the only sword character, was utterly broken in Smash 64, am I right?

Let us be real, Sakurai knows about as much regarding competitive Smash as I did when I was playing with items on, fam. It was just a coincidence. He did not get into the competitive aspect until Smash 4 and to that end, perhaps Cloud and Bayonetta were intentional. But Meta Knight was just a freak accident that spurred from his lack of knowledge. Or he thought prat falling would balance him out, lmfao.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a thought:
Imagine that, since the beginning, Kojima never met Sakurai and didn't have any interest to Smash whatsoever and Snake wasn't included in Brawl, and that was SEGA and Sonic who opened the floodgate of third-parties in Smash instead.
Do you honestly, sincerely think Snake would have been among the most requested third-party characters today?

 

[Superyoshiom]

There’s only one cut I’m expecting if there are any to begin with, and I feel that the cut is rather justified tbh. Dark Pit is who I see as the most likely cut.

Dark pit is sakurai’s baby, so I can see Lucinda getting cut first, if only because fire emblem has a boatload of characters and they’re probably adding another one in the next game.

We keep thinking clones are first on the list, and while I’d love for there to be no clones, we gotta remember, Dr Mario still got in over Mewtwo for the base smash 4 roster, as disgusting as it seems. The lowest priority characters are always characters with original movesets that are “the least urgent” to add like Corrin or characters where getting the rights could be costly or time consuming (like Cloud).

Believe me, I’d love for the only cuts to be Dark Pit, Lucian, and Dr. Mario (all of them can be alts of course) but this is Masahiro “Clones are a dessert to a roster” Sakurai we’re talking about here.

 

[Morbi]

Here's a thought:
Imagine that, since the beginning, Kojima never met Sakurai and didn't have any interest to Smash whatsoever and Snake wasn't included in Brawl, and that was SEGA and Sonic who opened the floodgate of third-parties in Smash instead.
Do you honestly, sincerely think Snake would have been among the most requested third-party characters today?

Um, no? Even under the circumstances in which we got him (or in an alternate reality where they were best friends ever and Kojima constantly begged Sakurai in public), I doubt he was requested per se. He is only a request now because we had him and he is gone. The same logic would apply to a lot of characters. You think anyone was asking for Game and Watch or R.O.B.?

 

[communistsoccermomhunter]

Alright, I'm gonna say it now.
Solaire for smash?
I mean, an amiibo of Solaire exists and all it does is give you a gesture which you can obtain in-game.
Dark souls for switch (obviously)

His taunts could be gestures from Dark souls.
Up taunt is praise the sun, side taunt is by my sword, down taunt could be collapse from DS3.

Moveset is easy to do also.
Side special could be parry, like counter, but instead it stuns your opponent. The time the opponent will be stunned depends on how strong their attack was, so if it's a normal jab they won't be stunned for long, but if it's a smash attack then they're gonna be stunned for a while.
Could have a sort-of riposte mechanic, where if Solaire uses a smash attack whilst opponent is stunned, he initiates a riposte. Could be a special animation, like from Dark Souls, or the smash attack could just do more damage or whatever.

Down special could be Lightning storm.
Basically, Solaire would kneel down (like in the games) and a lightning bolt would come down from the sky whilst he's kneeling. Like pikachu's attack, but...
it would work more similar to how it did in Dark souls, sort of bouncing along the ground for a bit. If you really want it to be that close to the games, make it have both fire and lightning elemental effects. Would be a bit of a slower attack, but when Solaire 'charges it up' (when he's initiating the attack) he would get super armor. Would not get super armor after attack is finished (when he's standing back up) so that'd leave him open for a bit.

Neutral special could be a Lightning Bolt. (ez)

Up special could be something not from the games, such as him flying "Sunward" or whatever. Solaire would glow gold for a moment, and would be put into the "Praise the Sun" gesture as he flies upwards. Could have a hitbox, but I dunno. Freefall state would be the praise the sun gesture.

Some alt costumes could be a white phantom, sunbro phantom, red phantom, ect.

That's just the specials and the alternate costumes, there's so much more that can be done.

Anyhow, if we're thinking that Steve is gonna be added, why not have some more, er, cooler option from microsoft. Master Chief, anyone?

 

[NintenZ]

Dark pit is sakurai’s baby, so I can see Lucinda getting cut first, if only because fire emblem has a boatload of characters and they’re probably adding another one in the next game.

We keep thinking clones are first on the list, and while I’d love for there to be no clones, we gotta remember, Dr Mario still got in over Mewtwo for the base smash 4 roster, as disgusting as it seems. The lowest priority characters are always characters with original movesets that are “the least urgent” to add like Corrin or characters where getting the rights could be costly or time consuming (like Cloud).

Believe me, I’d love for the only cuts to be Dark Pit, Lucian, and Dr. Mario (all of them can be alts of course) but this is Masahiro “Clones are a dessert to a roster” Sakurai we’re talking about here.

Actually of all the clones staying Lucina I believe is the likeliest, she’s the most relevant, the most popular, and out of all of them she’s probably the most different from her base character since her gimmick is completely different. (Marth’s Blade is at the top while hers is from the whole thing). Dr. Mario I’d say is the second most likely since he’s a popular veteran from Melee, while Dark Pit I can’t see unless under specific circumstances.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Dark pit is sakurai’s baby, so I can see Lucinda getting cut first, if only because fire emblem has a boatload of characters and they’re probably adding another one in the next game.

We keep thinking clones are first on the list, and while I’d love for there to be no clones, we gotta remember, Dr Mario still got in over Mewtwo for the base smash 4 roster, as disgusting as it seems. The lowest priority characters are always characters with original movesets that are “the least urgent” to add like Corrin or characters where getting the rights could be costly or time consuming (like Cloud).

Believe me, I’d love for the only cuts to be Dark Pit, Lucian, and Dr. Mario (all of them can be alts of course) but this is Masahiro “Clones are a dessert to a roster” Sakurai we’re talking about here.

Falco was also a higher priority than Mewtwo in Brawl and Toon Link, the only Brawl newcomer clone, ended up being higher priority than Lucas, Wolf, Squirtle and Ivysaur (transformation didn't prevent ZSS from returning).

 

[Morbi]

Actually of all the clones staying Lucina I believe is the likeliest, she’s the most relevant, the most popular, and out of all of them she’s probably the most different from her base character since her gimmick is completely different. (Marth’s Blade is at the top while hers is from the whole thing). Dr. Mario I’d say is the second most likely since he’s a popular veteran from Melee, while Dark Pit I can’t see unless under specific circumstances.

Absolutely. It would be ludicrous to cut Lucina, if anything, she might be the first de-cloned character, actually. I am not holding my breath, however, she warrants it.

 

[Polan]

Dark pit is sakurai’s baby, so I can see Lucinda getting cut first, if only because fire emblem has a boatload of characters and they’re probably adding another one in the next game.

We keep thinking clones are first on the list, and while I’d love for there to be no clones, we gotta remember, Dr Mario still got in over Mewtwo for the base smash 4 roster, as disgusting as it seems. The lowest priority characters are always characters with original movesets that are “the least urgent” to add like Corrin or characters where getting the rights could be costly or time consuming (like Cloud).

Believe me, I’d love for the only cuts to be Dark Pit, Lucian, and Dr. Mario (all of them can be alts of course) but this is Masahiro “Clones are a dessert to a roster” Sakurai we’re talking about here.

I too cannot wait for Lucian and Lucinda to get cut. Sakurai's love for Lucina clones has gone too far and must be stopped.
But on all seriousness, don't cut Lucina. Declone her yeah, but keep her in the game.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Absolutely. It would be ludicrous to cut Lucina, if anything, she might be the first de-cloned character, actually. I am not holding my breath, however, she warrants it.

Lucina is my favorite fire emblem character, so I’d love a de-cloned lucina. But if Ganon has taught us anything, Sakurai is stubborn when it comes to changing up characters movesets in significant ways from game to game.

If Lucina and Dark Pit could become semi clones in the same vein as luigi, however, I’d be really happy. Dr Mario, the most unique of the clones for having a completely different move, however, should stay an alt on the merit that he is, at the end of the day, just mario in an alternate costume.

I too cannot wait for Lucian and Lucinda to get cut. Sakurai's love for Lucina clones has gone too far and must be stopped.
But on all seriousness, don't cut Lucina. Declone her yeah, but keep her in the game.

Haha sorry, my autocorrect was being stupid and I didn’t bother to reread my message.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Here's a thought:
Imagine that, since the beginning, Kojima never met Sakurai and didn't have any interest to Smash whatsoever and Snake wasn't included in Brawl, and that was SEGA and Sonic who opened the floodgate of third-parties in Smash instead.
Do you honestly, sincerely think Snake would have been among the most requested third-party characters today?

Absolutely not. Snake would be less requested than Bomberman for a Konami rep, Snake would be scoffed at for being too violent, realistic and too few games on Nintendo consoles.

Hell, it'd be like people asking for Chris Redfield or Jill Valentine today. Technically they're megastars as the faces of horror, and yeah they appeared on a Nintendo console before as a remake but it'd be considered 'not Nintendo enough and way too violent'.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Absolutely not. Snake would be less requested than Bomberman for a Konami rep, Snake would be scoffed at for being too violent, realistic and too few games on Nintendo consoles.

Hell, it'd be like people asking for Chris Redfield or Jill Valentine today. Technically they're megastars as the faces of horror, and yeah they appeared on a Nintendo console before as a remake but it'd be considered 'not Nintendo enough and way too violent'.

They were both in Marvel vs Capcom though, so they wouldn’t be foreign to playing in a less gory environment.

 

[Atem]

Sorry intervene the bomberman conversation (which I don’t think he would make it in due to Snake getting in mostly due to Sakurai’s friendship with Konami and since Konami left Konami I don’t see it being likely. But who knows) but I would like King Boo. Just hear me out smash needs more villains. King Boo could also have probably the most original move set by creating illusions and having a disjointed tounge attack. If their was any character in the game right now that would fit his play style (of a glass canon with a large hit box) it would be Mewtwo. King Boo could have an amazing recovery game with the ability to fly temporarily (think brawl Pit or Duck Hunt) or even teleport (again like Mewtwo). Also King Boo has been around since the game cube and has been pretty current with the last appearance in 2015 (Mario Party 10) and with the port of Luigi’s mansion coming out later this year. Also the final smash would probably be summoning a giant bowser to fight for him or him breaking the dark moon summoning a hoard of anger ghosts. I see him having great specials (like sommoning lightning or for his side special going through the stage for a second) but having a short grab range. Honestly King Boo doesn’t have the greatest odds but I hope he comes in to Smash Bros.

 

[Troykv]

Oh, yeah, because Link, the only sword character, was utterly broken in Smash 64, am I right?

Let us be real, Sakurai knows about as much regarding competitive Smash as I did when I was playing with items on, fam. It was just a coincidence. He did not get into the competitive aspect until Smash 4 and to that end, perhaps Cloud and Bayonetta were intentional. But Meta Knight was just a freak accident that spurred from his lack of knowledge. Or he thought prat falling would balance him out, lmfao.

Well, Marth is also kind of an accident... well, his chain grab abilities were a great over-sight... Sakurai though that giving him weak throws would be nice to give him poor "safe" kill options... but it ended up giving the pro-players a way to get combos.

Falco was also a higher priority than Mewtwo in Brawl and Toon Link, the only Brawl newcomer clone, ended up being higher priority than Lucas, Wolf, Squirtle and Ivysaur (transformation didn't prevent ZSS from returning).

I wonder why reworking Falco and Child Link had more priority in Brawl than bringing back Mewtwo...

Toon Link likely got bigger priority in Smash WiiU/3DS for his recency and representing the "Child/Toon Link" games that the Older Lnk can't.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Sorry intervene the bomberman conversation (which I don’t think he would make it in due to Snake getting in mostly due to Sakurai’s friendship with Konami and since Konami left Konami I don’t see it being likely. But who knows) but I would like King Boo. Just hear me out smash needs more villains. King Boo could also have probably the most original move set by creating illusions and having a disjointed tounge attack. If their was any character in the game right now that would fit his play style (of a glass canon with a large hit box) it would be Mewtwo. King Boo could have an amazing recovery game with the ability to fly temporarily (think brawl Pit or Duck Hunt) or even teleport (again like Mewtwo). Also King Boo has been around since the game cube and has been pretty current with the last appearance in 2015 (Mario Party 10) and with the port of Luigi’s mansion coming out later this year. Also the final smash would probably be summoning a giant bowser to fight for him or him breaking the dark moon summoning a hoard of anger ghosts. I see him having great specials (like sommoning lightning or for his side special going through the stage for a second) but having a short grab range. Honestly King Boo doesn’t have the greatest odds but I hope he comes in to Smash Bros.

I think King Boo is big enough and recognizable enough to warrant being a character.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I wonder why reworking Falco and Child Link had more priority in Brawl than bringing back Mewtwo...

Toon Link likely got bigger priority in Smash WiiU/3DS for his recency and representing the "Child/Toon Link" games that the Older Lnk can't.

Frankly, I don't think the reasons matter as much as the fact there never was "rule" that clones are typically lower priority returning characters. Being a clone may be a factor, not a guarantee that you'll be low priority and any argument like that would have to deliberately ignore or rationalise everything that contradicts it.

 

[Deleted member]

?

I don't put any stock in Nintendo "pushing" third party games, that has no bearing on Smash.

Look at Pac-Man, entirely based around his arcade appearance with nothing Nintendo about him, not even a nod towards any of his more recent appearances, entirely retro. They weren't "pushing" Ghostly Adventures.

Look at Mega Man, based almost entirely around his NES games, that's "close to Nintendo" sure, but they're old games with no advertising merit. Sakurai looks to the past, not the future. He didn't have a future to "push" at the time.

Look at Ryu, based heavily on his appearance in Street Fighter 2, same deal as Mega Man, except he actually had more recent games. And even with that, same deal as Snake, his upcoming game at the time was exclusive to non-Nintendo consoles, so Nintendo certainly didn't get anything from that bargain, zero to do with "pushing" for Nintendo.

Look at Snake and Cloud, self explanatory.

The only possible argument for recency/future with third parties is Bayonetta, and she was a special case with the ballot.

I mean really, it could be either Simon or Bomberman, but when it comes down to it, Castlevania is the bigger series.

And Metal Gear beats the ever loving hell out of both of them and Snake is a veteran, so there's no way Konami would offer anyone else before Snake unless they really don't want him to return just to spite Kojima.

If Bomberman was a new third-party character that just started its life then I would agree. But he is an iconic multiplayer character who has a huge gaming history, lasting for over thirty years. Think about it like this, why would Nintendo and Konami work together to bring back Bomberman and not Castlevania, Gradius, Twinbee, Pro Evolution, or a new IP for the Switch launch? It's because both companies sees value in bringing back a franchise that people cherish and embodies video game's cultural tradition of bringing together a few of your friends to blast each other in the ring, a factor Nintendo is pushing with the Switch. Seeing how Super Bomberman R succeeds, they betted on the right horse and now he's climbing his way back up on relevance to not only modern gaming, but also gaming history. He's back and as time goes by, more people will start requesting him to return, not less. With Nintendo inevitably wanting more third-party characters, it's a good idea to bring up a major franchise they helped brought back to Sakurai. That's why this case is different from Crash returning with a remaster of the N-Sane Trilogy or Wonder Boy returning.

Not to mention that if he gets in, they can always play up the rivalry between Wario and Bomberman considering that they had a crossover together. With that and his multiplayer icon status, that brings a lot of hype and attention to the game.

Lastly, just because a franchise is bigger doesn't mean it is more likely. By that logic, we would have seen Leon Kennedy or Ryu get in over Mega Man in the last game's base roster but we didn't. Mega Man sets the precedence that as long as you are iconic, you can be added with or without fan demand. That's not to say Snake or Simon doesn't have a shot, they certainly do, but overall franchise sales doesn't equate to larger likelihood.

I've said my peace on the matter but I believe that not only Bomberman is the most likely third-party but the most deserving.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Frankly, I don't think the reasons matter as much as the fact there never was "rule" that clones are typically lower priority returning characters. Being a clone may be a factor, not a guarantee that you'll be low priority and any argument like that would have to deliberately ignore or rationalise everything that contradicts it.

Yes but why the third most popular character from the second biggest video game franchise is lower priority than most of the cast s mind-boggling. Does Sakurai genuinely think Mewtwo is not popular or is the Pokémon company prioritizing other characters in Smash and Sakurai simply doesn’t have the time.

The only reason I’m bringing this up is that during the time of this Smash’s development, Greninja was massively popular thanks to the Pokémon anime, which was on its league arc. Add that to the fact that we’ll probably get a Pokémon newcomer, and it’s a possibility, however saddening, that mewtwo could have the same fate as last time. He was my most wanted character for Smash 4 so I hope he’s higher priority this time.

It’s definitely a possibility he could be cut so Dr. Mario, Baby Mario, Metal Mario, and Pink Gold Peach get in the game.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Bomberman would probably be really fun. I’d play as him.

I would just be salty if Snake’s As-I mean Snake wasn’t in considering he’s a veteran.

Why not both!?

 

[Zerp]

This has nothing to do with anything else but I'm curious, what do you all think of this statement from Sakurai?

"Generally speaking, the most important resource for balancing is the report we receive from the playtesting team. While the playtesters don’t ever appear in the spotlight, I’m confident they’re skilled enough to perform quite well in a tournament." Source

How trustworthy do you think Sakurai's opinion that his twelve playtesters "...(a)re skilled enough to perform quite well in a tournament." is? Can we really take that at face value? Do you think he had (multiple?) professional-level players under his belt working on Smash 4 or do you think it's more likely the statement's just a case of overconfidence?

Also, if you're wondering where I got the twelve thing from, it's from this statement "This time, we’re monitoring a team of 12 people…" .

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Here's a thought:
Imagine that, since the beginning, Kojima never met Sakurai and didn't have any interest to Smash whatsoever and Snake wasn't included in Brawl, and that was SEGA and Sonic who opened the floodgate of third-parties in Smash instead.
Do you honestly, sincerely think Snake would have been among the most requested third-party characters today?

He'd probably be about as requested as Lara Croft and Simon Belmont.

 

[JamesDNaux]

If Bomberman was a new third-party character that just started its life then I would agree. But he is an iconic multiplayer character who has a huge gaming history, lasting for over thirty years. Think about it like this, why would Nintendo and Konami work together to bring back Bomberman and not Castlevania, Gradius, Twinbee, Pro Evolution, or a new IP for the Switch launch? It's because both companies sees value in bringing back a franchise that people cherish and embodies video game's cultural tradition of bringing together a few of your friends to blast each other in the ring, a factor Nintendo is pushing with the Switch. Seeing how Super Bomberman R succeeds, they betted on the right horse and now he's climbing his way back up on relevance to not only modern gaming, but also gaming history. He's back and as time goes by, more people will start requesting him to return, not less. With Nintendo inevitably wanting more third-party characters, it's a good idea to bring up a major franchise they helped brought back to Sakurai.

Not to mention that if he gets in, they can always play up the rivalry between Wario and Bomberman considering that they had a crossover together. With that and his multiplayer icon status, that brings a lot of hype and attention to the game.

Lastly, just because a franchise is bigger doesn't mean it is more likely. By that logic, we would have seen Leon Kennedy or Ryu get in over Mega Man in the last game's base roster but we didn't. Mega Man sets the precedence that as long as you are iconic, you can be added with or without fan demand. That's not to say Snake or Simon doesn't have a shot, they certainly do, but overall franchise sales doesn't equate to larger likelihood.

Again to your first point, Nintendo "pushing" a game means zilch, Wario or not.

I'm not gonna argue whether Simon or Bomberman is more requested for Smash because I don't know nor do I care. Mega Man was the next most requested character after friggin' Sonic, so it was really him before anyone else for Capcom.

Point I'm making, having a new game has zero bearing on whether a third party gets in Smash so Bomberman R means jack.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The winner of the first Mega Man poll was Proto Man. Bass and Roll fared well, though Wily was dead last. lol

The next poll with be Mega Man X themed. Your choices are X, Zero, Vile, and Axl.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

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[Tree Gelbman]

If Snake hadn't got in. I think he'd have been seen like Cloud was. ''Impossible."

And then if he had happened to have happened late his reaction would've been much like Cloud's was.

It'd have blown up the internet. Either way he would've done just that.

 

[Superyoshiom]

He'd probably be about as requested as Lara Croft and Simon Belmont.

Simon Belmont and Lara Croft are in two different leagues of character requests. One of which has always been requested being a classic character in Nintendo consoles, and the other stirred up about 3 pages on controversy here a couple days ago.

Not that either are likely, I’m just saying.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yes but why the third most popular character from the second biggest video game franchise is lower priority than most of the cast s mind-boggling. Does Sakurai genuinely think Mewtwo is not popular or is the Pokémon company prioritizing other characters in Smash and Sakurai simply doesn’t have the time.

Yeah, honestly speaking, the fact that Mewtwo was low priority in Brawl is pretty head-scratching.

The only reason I’m bringing this up is that during the time of this Smash’s development, Greninja was massively popular thanks to the Pokémon anime, which was on its league arc. Add that to the fact that we’ll probably get a Pokémon newcomer, and it’s a possibility, however saddening, that mewtwo could have the same fate as last time. He was my most wanted character for Smash 4 so I hope he’s higher priority this time.

It’s definitely a possibility he could be cut so Dr. Mario, Baby Mario, Metal Mario, and Pink Gold Peach get in the game.

But what are you talking about, everyone loves her!

 

[Pakky]

I don't know I always though Bomberman was bigger than Simon. I would be elated to have both though.

Yeah, honestly speaking, the fact that Mewtwo was low priority in Brawl is pretty head-scratching.

To me that makes sense seeing as how in the 4th gen he was kind of MIA until the 2nd gen remakes.

 

[FlareHabanero]

This has nothing to do with anything else but I'm curious, what do you all think of this statement from Sakurai?

"Generally speaking, the most important resource for balancing is the report we receive from the playtesting team. While the playtesters don’t ever appear in the spotlight, I’m confident they’re skilled enough to perform quite well in a tournament." Source

How trustworthy do you think Sakurai's opinion that his twelve playtesters "...(a)re skilled enough to perform quite well in a tournament." is? Can we really take that at face value? Do you think he had (multiple?) professional-level players under his belt working on Smash 4 or do you think it's more likely the statement's just a case of overconfidence?

Play testing is a pretty normal procedure with any game, because it's a very involved way to find possible bugs or balance issues. This can range from internal play tests to more public play tests like demos at events. As for the statement about being "skilled enough for tournaments", I don't know what he means by that exactly since he never dropped anything specific. But at the bare minimum it at least means the players play testing the game are aware of how to play the game at a indeterminate level.

 

[Deleted member]

Bomberman would probably be really fun. I’d play as him.

I would just be salty if Snake’s As-I mean Snake wasn’t in considering he’s a veteran.

Why not both!?

I actually do believe that both of them, and in fact Simon too, should all be added into Smash, but I believe that Konami characters will be added independently of whenever or not someone else gets in. Any one, two, or even all three of Snake, Bomberman, and Simon Belmont could get in should Sakurai want a character. I choose to argue for Bomberman because he's the one I want the most, also the one I think has the best shot, and I wanted to counter the notion that a Konami character was impossible for Smash.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Yeah, honestly speaking, the fact that Mewtwo was low priority in Brawl is pretty head-scratching.

I honestly think it has to do with the Pokémon company. Despite nostalgia-baiting playing a heavy role in their recent games, at the end of the day they want to promote their current games first and foremost. With Brawl, the hot new things were Pokémon fire red and diamond and pearl, so they chose Pokémon trainer and lucario, and since jigglypuff and pilachu were mainstays, and there were already so many Pokémon as is, mewtwo got the boot. Same in smash 4, where Charisse’s and lucario both played key roles in the mega evolution parts of x and y, and greninja was a starter. Mewtwo also had a mega evolution, but was post-game content that could be skipped entirely.

If you ask me, the problem here is jigglypuff. In terms of the actual series, she’s wildly less popular than everyone else on the roster. I’d prefer if we keep all our Pokémon characters, but even though she’s part of the original 12 and easier to program, jigglypuff really shouldn’t stay if mewtwo has to get cut.

 

[Pakky]

If you ask me, the problem here is jigglypuff. In terms of the actual series, she’s wildly less popular than everyone else on the roster. I’d prefer if we keep all our Pokémon characters, but even though she’s part of the original 12 and easier to program, jigglypuff really shouldn’t stay if mewtwo has to get cut.

I agree the last stand was the last Smash if you ask me with her becoming a Fairy Type and that being a new thing, other than that I don't see why we should keep her on.

She doesn't change and probably won't as far as Pokemon is around.

Gen 8 will be a thing and everyone else that's here is just WAY more important than her.

 

[Fenriraga]

The winner of the first Mega Man poll was Proto Man. Bass and Roll fared well, though Wily was dead last. lol

The next poll with be Mega Man X themed. Your choices are X, Zero, Vile, and Axl.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin.

Question.

X series Zero specifically, or can it be Megaman Zero... Zero?

Because Zero Zero has much closer ties to Nintendo than X Zero.

 

[Superyoshiom]

I agree the last stand was the last Smash if you ask me with her becoming a Fairy Type and that being a new thing, other than that I don't see why we should keep her on.

She doesn't change and probably won't as far as Pokemon is around.

Gen 8 will be a thing and everyone else that's here is just WAY more important than her.

There are just characters that people believe have to stay because they’ve been in smash, even when they’re currently not relevant. While this works for series with only one character like f zero and captain falcon, Pokemon is enormous, most likely getting a newcomer, and every Pokémon on the roster is more popular than Jigglypuff when it comes to the people who actually play Pokémon games and watch the anime.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Super Bomberman R really feels like such an odd pipe dream of kind to exist - I think some of the previous titles were bit better, but I had to both grin from ear to ear and feel quite befuddled at the same time as I watched Grand Prix-mode suddenly feature all the Konami-themed Bombers (Vic Viper Bomber was a riot with his Gradius 1-remixes especially). And that's the wacky thing about it: it's like someone revived two companies from gruesome and infamous deaths at once.

I guess that's how much a miracle-making console Switch is.

On that end I can understand why they didn't bother with likes of Twinbee or Gradius, which have been pretty dormant and doesn't exactly have as big fanbases as Bomberman does.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Jigglypuff might not be an important Pokémon character, but she's an important Smash character, which is more important by the end of the day.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I personally think there will only be like 3 or 4 newcomers selected from the ballot with most of the newcomer roster being selected based off what was prominent around 2014-2016.

I see it being the other way around because... not much was made in that time period.
I should really keep a list handy for pasting but it was mostly Splatoon, Star Fox Zero, Five Nights at Slippy's, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Wooly World, Pokemon Gen 7, Paper Mario: do you have paper stuffed in your ears? and Breath of the Wild's long dev cycle


*realises Slippy could get in with a moveset based off Star Fox Guard*

Oh, that's gonna be carnage on the Krystal and Wolf threads...

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Jigglypuff might not be an important Pokémon character, but she's an important Smash character, which is more important by the end of the day.

She's more of a Smash icon than a Pokemon icon. Her series symbol might as well be changed to the Smash Ball!

I see it being the other way around because... not much was made in that time period.
I should really keep a list handy for pasting but it was mostly Splatoon, Star Fox Zero, Five Nights at Slippy's, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Wooly World, Pokemon Gen 7, Paper Mario: do you have paper stuffed in your ears? and Breath of the Wild's long dev cycle


*realises Slippy could get in with a moveset based off Star Fox Guard*

Oh, that's gonna be carnage on the Krystal and Wolf threads...

Slippy's unique trait could be that he's the only one who can randomly trip.

 

[EmceeEspio]

?

I don't put any stock in Nintendo "pushing" third party games, that has no bearing on Smash.

Look at Pac-Man, entirely based around his arcade appearance with nothing Nintendo about him, not even a nod towards any of his more recent appearances, entirely retro. They weren't "pushing" Ghostly Adventures.

Look at Mega Man, based almost entirely around his NES games, that's "close to Nintendo" sure, but they're old games with no advertising merit. Sakurai looks to the past, not the future. He didn't have a future to "push" at the time.

Look at Ryu, based heavily on his appearance in Street Fighter 2, same deal as Mega Man, except he actually had more recent games. And even with that, same deal as Snake, his upcoming game at the time was exclusive to non-Nintendo consoles, so Nintendo certainly didn't get anything from that bargain, zero to do with "pushing" for Nintendo.

Look at Snake and Cloud, self explanatory.

The only possible argument for recency/future with third parties is Bayonetta, and she was a special case with the ballot.

I mean really, it could be either Simon or Bomberman, but when it comes down to it, Castlevania is the bigger series.

And Metal Gear beats the ever loving hell out of both of them and Snake is a veteran, so there's no way Konami would offer anyone else before Snake unless they really don't want him to return just to spite Kojima.

They DID get caught on record saying they were gonna "burn (Metal Gear)'s legacy to the ground" or something like that, soooo....

 

[Wyoming]

Jigglypuff was actually my first known Nintendo character. My parents got me a plush doll of her as a kid before I even played Pokemon. Then I played DK, Mario (spin-offs + Paper and Doctor), F-Zero, Kirby, Star Fox and finally Smash. Only characters I didn't know were Ness, Link and Samus, then Jigglypuff showed up as a unlockable character and I finally knew what series she came from.

(yes I eventually played SNES games and the n64 titles I missed + other misc games)

I would be devastated if she got cut. She got me into Pokemon and some childhood memories.