Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

Oh, and if done right, she could have her dress and suit as alternatives. Her moveset would have to be based off the dress by default for that to work though.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think if she's in Mario Tennis we'll see her popping up more.

I really think Nintendo is gonna push her. She's always had the potential to be as big as Peach and Rosalina.

Plus Mario needs more main ladies that aren't a Princess or Princess lite.

 

[NintenZ]

Why would you be hated for that?

She’s been in the mario vs DK series, the original donkey Kong, and odyssey.

Characters have gotten in on less.

Would help the argument if she was playable in something.

So what would you rather have a playable Pauline in:

A sequel to Donkey Kong (Like the game boy Donkey Kong 94) or a sequel to mario vs DK with the minis?

A lot of people don’t seem to crazy about having her for whatever reason, I don’t know why that is but I personally think she could be a pretty fun character if they used her items from Donkey Kong, the Minis from Mario vs Donkey Kong, and top that off with singing and you got someone that could be pretty fun.

She has a lot going for her, she’s iconic, she’s extremely relevant with because of Odyssey, and she has potential to be a fun character, honestly I don’t even base her off of Rosalina but her own merits as a character.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Isabelle was proven the true victor of the Animal Crossing poll. Either way, the one was close for everyone. Nook was second, KK was third, and Resetti was last.

Next up is the first of many Mega Man themed polls, focusing on the Classic series Mega Man hails from. Your choices are Proto Man, Bass, Dr Wily, and Roll.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

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[DGAMER]

Pauline has chances, but I'd say the chances of a Mario newcomer are pretty low for Smash 5.

Wouldn't mind seeing her thou.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Isabelle was proven the true victor of the Animal Crossing poll. Either way, the one was close for everyone. Nook was second, KK was third, and Resetti was last.

Next up is the first of many Mega Man themed polls, focusing on the Classic series Mega Man hails from. Your choices are Proto Man, Bass, Dr Wily, and Roll.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin.

Don't have a Twitter (techncially do but forgot the password long ago) but I'll shout out for ROLL here.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Rosalina got in off of nothing Pauline started all of this and is a main character in a franchise of games and is in the most recent game.

I'm behind her 100% (and she's gorgeous with all that dark hair but that's not the point)

I wouldn't say nothing. Rosalina had a ton of moveset potential. She's also the only Mario character with a backstory. She's practically the second main character of Galaxy because of this.

And Mario Galaxy was HUGE.

 

[MrReyes96]

I can see Pauline having a move like bowser jr’s where she throws out little mini Marios, add elements of the original donkey Kong and her appearance in Odyssey and you’ve got a cool character concept

 

[SoccerStar9001]

A lot of people don’t seem to crazy about having her for whatever reason, I don’t know why that is but I personally think she could be a pretty fun character if they used her items from Donkey Kong, the Minis from Mario vs Donkey Kong, and top that off with singing and you got someone that could be pretty fun.

IMO, it is because she feels kinda weird as a Mario character. Look at people in New Donk City compared to Mario. Pauline doesn't have it as bad but still feels too "realistic" compared to Mario's more fantasy nature and character design.

 

[Pakky]

I wouldn't say nothing. Rosalina had a ton of moveset potential. She's also the only Mario character with a backstory. She's practically the second main character of Galaxy because of this.

And Mario Galaxy was HUGE.

True, point made.

 

[Fenriraga]

Here's another random question because why not.

If does make it back in the new Smash, do you think he'll have more proper representation? His English VA, more music, trophies, etc?

 

[NintenZ]

Here's another random question because why not.

If does make it back in the new Smash, do you think he'll have more proper representation? His English VA, more music, trophies, etc?

No because when it comes to licensing in general Square tends to be extremely protective over certain material.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Here's another random question because why not.

If does make it back in the new Smash, do you think he'll have more proper representation? His English VA, more music, trophies, etc?

It entirely depends on how much money Nintendo would allow to be spent.

The content Cloud got in Smash was minimal, but it was probably minimal because Square Enix probably asks for a lot of money to use their franchises. To be fair, we got what I consider one of the best stages in the game, two costumes, and two of the main tracks from Final Fantasy VII.

If Cloud comes back, my guess is we'd keep the Midgar stage, the costumes, and maybe (HUGE MAYBE) get more music. One Winged Angel and J.E.N.O.V.A. are two tracks I think would be amazing for Smash, especially if they're either remixed or cut down to flow a little differently.

I'll link them just because I love the music!

It really just comes down to how much they can get, and how much they're willing to spend. Smash is a big budget game, and I don't necessarily see why either party wouldn't want to come back to the table. I know there was that apparent issue with the amiibo (I really know nothing beyond that it happened?), but I assume that would happen with a character who has little merchandise anyway, especially for that cheap.

 

[Superyoshiom]

You guys are gonna hate me for even suggesting this, but I think Pauline actually has a pretty good shot at making it in.

So long as it's not Steve, I don't care. At the very least she's a Nintendo character. I miss the days where Daisy and Waluigi were the most unexpected characters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If Savvy Stylist makes it in, her tagline should be

Savvy Stylist Stays Fabulous!

 

[Fenriraga]

I only ask because I'd like to think Cloud's minimal representation was due to him being DLC, thus probably not having a larger budget compared to the main roster because of Square's hefty fee. I'd assume Bayo and Ryu didn't cause nearly as much trouble.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Someone made a post about EarthBound stages on a previous page, and that got me thinking.

I really, really hate huge stages. Not "big" stages like Hyrule temple, I'm talking New Pork City, Palutena's Temple, and The Great Cave Offensive. These stages have some of the best music in them and they're a nightmare to play on.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It kinda makes me wonder, would Sakurai know about Pauline's somewhat major appearance in Odyssey way back in early 2016 to consider the character?

And also, outside of her promoting Odyssey with the Jump Up Superstar song, she has not made notable appearances in recent Mario spinoffs like Mario Tennis: Aces for me to think that Nintendo would encourage Sakurai to add the character. I am kinda skeptical about her chances.

 

[Onua]

What if Elite Beat Agents got in lol

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I know that very often, when Cloud is mentioned, money and spending is brought up. I feel like it's pretty obvious that there is money sent either way to get a character in a game like Smash. There may be some people who don't think Cloud was worth it, but I would have to disagree.

I probably seem like a Cloud fanboy, but it's simply epic that he's in Smash. The All-Star lineup of Gaming (not just Nintendo) All-Stars in Smash is unheard of. No other series has ever had a cast like Smash Wii U/3DS. It's incredible to think you can match up some of the biggest icons in the same game.

I think whatever cost to get Cloud in Smash was worth it. I don't have a degree in economics to know for sure...I also don't know the details of it. I do realize Final Fantasy VII is considered one of the greatest games of all time, and costs regarding the game can be high. There's a reason for that.

However, no matter what the deal cost Nintendo, we got:

Cloud
Two costumes (one from Advent Children, the movie)
Midgar Stage, with stage hazards
Midgar Stage (Final Destination version)
Let the Battles Begin! (one of the most iconic music tracks in gaming)
Fight on! (Boss theme from FFVII)
A unique victory theme for Cloud (it plays even after the usual jingle, loops)
Art Piece for Smash Wii U/3DS website, crafted by Final Fantasy artist Tetsuya Nomura (famous for his work)

Now, with the battle theme being one of the most iconic music pieces in gaming, that couldn't have been cheap to use. Now imagine wanting One Winged Angel, a track that is considered one of the best pieces in gaming history. That certainly wouldn't be cheap!

Basically, Cloud returning depends on money. Yes, there are diminishing returns on guest characters. But for a game like Smash? I don't know that we're there yet. If they retain Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, and Bayonetta, it will be one of the greatest rosters of all time. Hands down.

 

[Superyoshiom]

It kinda makes me wonder, would Sakurai know about Pauline's somewhat major appearance in Odyssey way back in early 2016 to consider the character?

And also, outside of her promoting Odyssey with the Jump Up Superstar song, she has not made notable appearances in recent Mario spinoffs like Mario Tennis: Aces for me to think that Nintendo would encourage Sakurai to add the character. I am kinda skeptical about her chances.

Her situation is most similar to Rosalina back in Brawl. I know she's a legacy character, but her roles prior to Odyssey haven't been bigger than in Mario vs Donkey Kong. If she makes more appearances in Mario games, she could have a chance of appearing.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Be mindful the whole roster for Mario Tennis Aces is not revealed.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Someone made a post about EarthBound stages on a previous page, and that got me thinking.

I really, really hate huge stages. Not "big" stages like Hyrule temple, I'm talking New Pork City, Palutena's Temple, and The Great Cave Offensive. These stages have some of the best music in them and they're a nightmare to play on.

Thinking about it, Palutena's temple is basically Rainbow Road, zoomed out.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Her situation is most similar to Rosalina back in Brawl. I know she's a legacy character, but her roles prior to Odyssey haven't been bigger than in Mario vs Donkey Kong. If she makes more appearances in Mario games, she could have a chance of appearing.

I remember people saying that Rosalina not only got added for promotion, but also to represent the critically acclaimed Galaxy games as well. Would Pauline be added to represent the critical success of Odyssey as well alongside hardcore promotion?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

At first I was skeptical of Pauline being playable, but if she's as fun as Rosalina can be I suppose I don't really care.

The only difference she has from Rosalina is the spin-off appearances, but given the fact that Sakurai would probably ask for information like that anyway that's negligible.
---
Also, a thought just came to me.

We still have no conclusive idea besides conjecture if this is an entirely new game for the series. Sure, it was revealed as such. But we don't know for sure.

What if, for the most part it's a port? The characters added? Mostly from the ballot. There may be a few "relevant" newbies. But mostly ballot stuff?

Would anybody be mad?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

With Smash when does it stop being a port and start being a new game?

How much does the gameplay have to change and how many stages have to be brand new?

 

[Antimatter042]

With Smash when does it stop being a port and start being a new game?

How much does the gameplay have to change and how many stages have to be brand new?

I'd say that having at least half of the following constitutes a new game:

• 8+ Newcomers
• At least 40% New Stages
• Some notable change to the physics engine (or a new universal AT)
• Changes to the UI
• New Main Theme, Battlefield and Final Destination
• Notable changes to veterans (possibly including some cuts)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'd personally qualify it as

• New models for all veterans
• New menus
• New main theme that's spammed across the board
• A stage for every series that's had a new game in the 2014-early 2017 period.
• A different spin on Classic (64 had it set in stone, Melee had random characters and set match types, Brawl had it the other way around, 3DS had a mix and WiiU was a mess.)

New characters as well but the actual number is irrelevant.

 

[Freduardo]

A lot of people don’t seem to crazy about having her for whatever reason, I don’t know why that is but I personally think she could be a pretty fun character if they used her items from Donkey Kong, the Minis from Mario vs Donkey Kong, and top that off with singing and you got someone that could be pretty fun.

She has a lot going for her, she’s iconic, she’s extremely relevant with because of Odyssey, and she has potential to be a fun character, honestly I don’t even base her off of Rosalina but her own merits as a character.

A little bit of a push she got pre oddyssey was this 3ds puzzle swap streetpads image.

All of these have had Smash consideration or membership except Pauline. So consideration makes sense.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I remember people saying that Rosalina not only got added for promotion, but also to represent the critically acclaimed Galaxy games as well. Would Pauline be added to represent the critical success of Odyssey as well alongside hardcore promotion?

Pauline seems more suited for a stage cameo, and even if she was considered a playable role, which franchise would she represent?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

What if, for the most part it's a port? The characters added? Mostly from the ballot. There may be a few "relevant" newbies. But mostly ballot stuff?

I personally think there will only be like 3 or 4 newcomers selected from the ballot with most of the newcomer roster being selected based off what was prominent around 2014-2016.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

If Cloud is to return to Smash, does anyone think it's possible we see music or anything from Final Fantasy games other than Final Fantasy VII, or will they stick strictly to FFVII?

 

[shrooby]

If Cloud is to return to Smash, does anyone think it's possible we see music or anything from Final Fantasy games other than Final Fantasy VII, or will they stick strictly to FFVII?

After not even getting One Winged Angel, I'm not getting my hopes up for anything music related.

 

[Pakky]

If Cloud is to return to Smash, does anyone think it's possible we see music or anything from Final Fantasy games other than Final Fantasy VII, or will they stick strictly to FFVII?

Sephy himself would be a dream as would Tifa

 

[Superyoshiom]

Pauline seems more suited for a stage cameo, and even if she was considered a playable role, which franchise would she represent?

A FD version of New Donk City could take place on the skyscraper with the concert band where Pauline could appear as the lead singer. She’d basically do the same thing as KK slider in the animal crossing stages.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Pauline seems more suited for a stage cameo, and even if she was considered a playable role, which franchise would she represent?

I'm now imagining the sheer rage from Smashboards if she got in as the DK newcomer they'd waited for for so long.

Not pretty.

Personally I think Pauline's chance is NEXT Smash. Rosalina was the hot new thing in Galaxy and she got in the next consoles Smash game.

Maybe it's delusional bias on my part but I feel Captain Toad's chance is now seeing as he was a pretty big new thing in 3D World and his Treasure Tracker game...

...I mean unless Plessie gets in instead.

 

[Superyoshiom]

A little bit of a push she got pre oddyssey was this 3ds puzzle swap streetpads image.

All of these have had Smash consideration or membership except Pauline. So consideration makes sense.

They managers to put in two Zeldas and Daisy still got snubbed.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Quick thoughts on the past few pages.

Steve:
- I hope he’s not in, because he’s personality-less and looks/moves really ugly, but he has a small shot and if he makes it, so be it

Cloud:
- Not sure he’s coming back
- Spending money to get him for DLC and then splitting the profits with SE seems easier/more profitable than having him on the base roster
- He’s not going to make the same splash the second time around, so if he’s expensive/hard to add, it’s kikely not worth it

Pauline:
- Could see it happen, but nothing particularly excites me about it

Port:
- New music, characters, stages and UI would sell me on it being new enough

 

[Superyoshiom]

I'm now imagining the sheer rage from Smashboards if she got in as the DK newcomer they'd waited for for so long.

Not pretty.

Personally I think Pauline's chance is NEXT Smash. Rosalina was the hot new thing in Galaxy and she got in the next consoles Smash game.

Maybe it's delusional bias on my part but I feel Captain Toad's chance is now seeing as he was a pretty big new thing in 3D World and his Treasure Tracker game...

...I mean unless Plessie gets in instead.

I think captain toad makes a lot of sense. Ever since galaxy, he has made appearances on every 3D console Mario, and had his own game which is being ported to two more consoles.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Maybe their series overall sold better than MC, but as a single game MC has outsold literally every other game ever made except for Tetris (which considers every single different version of the game as one.)

CoD, GTA, and Need for Speed have had impact but nowhere near to the level of cultural and games industry impact Minecraft has, especially in Japan. Those series may also be on Nintendo platforms, but Minecraft has been on all of them since the 3DS and was the highest selling game for a while on the Switch. Sakurai himself has said he loves the game and it's one of the few he finds himself coming back to. Both SimCity and Tetris are already represented in Smash in some way.

So it's really only impressive on the merit that, as a single game, it sold as much as the big boys (I feel like that's ignoring the fact that it's been ported to anything and everything, but ok). Impressive? Sure, but that doesn't make it any more notable in regards to Smash. That's hardly a reason to put it above anything else. Besides, you know what other single game sold an astonishing amount? The Oregon Trail. Mario dies of dysentery for Smash.

I'm a teacher.

DO

NOT

UNDERESTIMATE

MINECRAFT

It's absolutely mind boggling how much the kids love it.

There's a reason its on every system. There's a reason its used in schools. There's a reason I see Minecraft shirts everywhere.


Dude I'm not fond of Steve myself, but he makes total sense.

A popular world renown character from a super innovative and ultra popular game that redefined and in some ways created the genre.

We can't just ignore what Minecraft has done. It's bigger than Wii Sports.

FRICKEN WII SPORTS!!!

The cultural significance the IP has is astounding. Not to mention that apparently, Minecraft is associated with Nintendo in Japan. And its still super popular there....

Steve's got a chance. We can scoff him all we want, but it just makes us look dumb if he does get in (and I think he easily can).

Where do you think the Steve for Smash meme came from? He got a fair amount of requests WITHOUT a campaign. Kids just want him cause they love Minecraft. And that's not a bad thing.

Mark my words.

TIL Swamp is a teacher.

Kids love Minecraft, sure (but kids are stupid and love anything so hey), but do they actually love Minecraft Steve? I've never played the game, admittedly, but from my understanding, it's a first person block placing simulator with a generic avatar as the protagonist, so I have trouble believing anyone actually cares about the "character" himself outside of memes.

Cultural icon or not, being a character in Smash takes more than just outstanding marks in one category. Pong and Tetris were sensations, the most they got were an assist trophy (based on Nintendo's own version) and two music tracks respectively. If they even bother with the licensing, Minecraft would probably get a stage at most.