Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

I personally want Ribbon Girl over Spring Man simply for the multi-jumps.

I don't see what's wrong with both. If it's anyone it's gonna be Spring Man, but it would probably make more sense to have him and Ribbon Girl appear together.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'm still just in complete and total shock over Smash getting announced. I thought it was still too soon, and yet, here we are, with my most wanted newcomer in, no less.

 

[?????????????]

It doesn't make sense to have Eevee un-evolve,

Eevee does this literal thing in the manga.

As for ARMS, Spring Man is the only sensical choice. He has just as many customizable options as any other ARMS fighter, is the mascot of the series, and brings the same new "fighting style" to Smash Bros.: stretchy arms.

That'd be like picking King Hippo over Little Mac.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I suppose if one imagines that it's a group of Eevees
But I should also point out that, again, Eevee itself is a terrible character to have in Smash, and yet avoiding it basically means playing PT without being able to switch.
Also, "more-or-less the same moveset" would be massively under-serving several of them. Vaporeon has enough to be her own character, largely with moves that would be very different from the rest of the co-evolutions (acid armor, the tail, etc.). One thing that they deserve to their credit, unlike other similar groups in Pokemon like the Pans, is that they aren't just pallete swaps.
Well, the later ones kind of were, but the first five are all fairly well-defined.

Im not understating anything, and I'm honestly not sure if you read what I said as I wrote it (unless I descibed my point of view that poorly).
My idea is that eevee would have a base set of moves. Such as tackle, scratch, tail whip, and growl. And then as he evolves, into one of 8 (or more in future) options, the effects and visuals of those moves would change.
The idea is that you could get a feel for your opponent with Eevee, and then evolve it based on what suits your match best.
They wouldnt be palette swaps in any way. They would be basing the core of Eevee's moveset around the principle of evolution and strategic battle.

I also don't understand this phrase: "avoiding it basically means playing PT without being able to switch."
The eeveelutions wouldnt be as varied as the pokemon trainer set at all. This may bother some, but it keeps in line the strategy above. And adds a very missing component of Pokemon to the smash series.

Eevee does this literal thing in the manga.

As for ARMS, Spring Man is the only sensical choice. He has just as many customizable options as any other ARMS fighter, is the mascot of the series, and brings the same new "fighting style" to Smash Bros.: stretchy arms.

That'd be like picking King Hippo over Little Mac.

Punchout is a game played entirely from Little Mac's point of view.
ARMS is a game with Spring man on the cover to help the audience become ingratiated to the characters of the game.
They have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

I'd bet money the sequel to ARMS has two different characters on the cover. There is no main character in ARMS.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Not having Spring Man in Smash as the ARMS rep is like having Banjo-Kazooie in Smash


but it's ****ing Cheato instead.

 

[Lord-Zero]

What's wrong with this?

I think that one is suitable as an Up Smash attack. I wouldn’t mind it as a Final Smash, though.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Yeah I think Spring Man/Ribbon girl would be the default ARMS character simply because they’re the cover character. To me that much seems obvious.

I think with Spring Man, you could make him really interesting if the Down B was an “ARMS Switch” so you can change which arms you’re using. So if his default ARMS are the normal gloves, you could swap between 2-3 alternatives based on the situation you’re facing. The ARMS you switch to would each have their pros and cons, so you’d have to be careful. They could make it more in-depth with custom moves and only changing one glove at a time...hm.

Then, if you add somebody like Min-Min, Master Mummy or Twintelle, you could do something similar but add the Dragon Arm, Super Armor and floating dodges respectively. I think each would be pretty neat.

It’s just that Spring Man (with Ribbon Girl alt?) would be first.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So what about Skull Kid? Seemed like one of the weird predictions in Brawl, but there's Majora's Mask 3D and Hyrule Warriors to take into consideration.

I mean Majora's Mask is one of the most recognized Zelda games of all time. Some people say it's a cult following, but it's one hell of a big cult.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Im not understating anything, and I'm honestly not sure if you read what I said as I wrote it (unless I descibed my point of view that poorly).
My idea is that eevee would have a base set of moves. Such as tackle, scratch, tail whip, and growl. And then as he evolves, into one of 8 (or more in future) options, the effects and visuals of those moves would change.
The idea is that you could get a feel for your opponent with Eevee, and then evolve it based on what suits your match best.
They wouldnt be palette swaps in any way. They would be basing the core of Eevee's moveset around the principle of evolution and strategic battle.

I also don't understand this phrase: "avoiding it basically means playing PT without being able to switch."
The eeveelutions wouldnt be as varied as the pokemon trainer set at all. This may bother some, but it keeps in line the strategy above. And adds a very missing component of Pokemon to the smash series.



Punchout is a game played entirely from Little Mac's point of view.
ARMS is a game with Spring man on the cover to help the audience become ingratiated to the characters of the game.
They have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

They do. It'd be like not choosing Mario for the Mario rep.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

(with Ribbon Girl alt?)

Probably not. They're much more different than they look.

 

[?????????????]

Punchout is a game played entirely from Little Mac's point of view.
ARMS is a game with Spring man on the cover to help the audience become ingratiated to the characters of the game.
They have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Okay, I got a better one.

It'd be like picking anyone other than Ryu to represent Street Fighter.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Not having Spring Man in Smash as the ARMS rep is like having Banjo-Kazooie in Smash


but it's ****ing Cheato instead.

I honestly thought you meant Chester Cheeto and was trying to figure out the algebra required to get to such a connection.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

I don't see what's wrong with both. If it's anyone it's gonna be Spring Man, but it would probably make more sense to have him and Ribbon Girl appear together.

I see nothing wrong with both. Semi clones, each with a different set of ARMS, some from other characters maybe, Spring Man with a mechanic similar to Lucario's to get his charge punches at high percents, Ribbon Girl with the jumps. Would be great. I just picked one for the sake of picking ONE. Which doesn't have to happen. Could get one, two, none. Beats me

 

[Mansta]

Everyone overlooking the top contenders for Smash being Steve and Goku because Minecraft and Xenoverse 2 are on switch.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm gonna be so happy when it isnt Spring man that is announced.

Okay, I got a better one.

It'd be like picking anyone other than Ryu to represent Street Fighter.

No. It isnt. Street Fighter has had many iterations, and it is generally supported that Ryu is the fan favorite.

Yet in ARMS, the clear frontrunners for fan favorites were Twintelle and Min Min.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I honestly thought you meant Chester Cheeto and was trying to figure out the algebra required to get to such a connection.

I'd main the **** out of Chester Cheeto.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I really wanna know if Arms and Xenoblade 2 can happen. I know Xenoblade 2 was in development way before Arms, but does someone have any examples of characters like Greninja and Roy and exactly how early they were planned compared to the development of their games?

 

[?????????????]

No. It isnt. Street Fighter has had many iterations, and it is generally supported that Ryu is the fan favorite.

Ryu is NOT the fan favorite. Fanbases love Chun-Li and Guile WAY more, and he's near the bottom in the competitive scene.

He's the mascot. The boring, basic character that uses the same moveset as, like, 5 of the other characters.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Why on Earth is the consensus that Spring Man is the poster child and main character of ARMS? Please, several of you explain your points of view to me, because I am truly baffled.

Being on the boxart does not make you the main character, nor the mascot. Venusaur and Charizard were not the main characters of Pokemon, and the newer games with the legendaries are damn well even further from being the main characters.

Ryu is NOT the fan favorite. Fanbases love Chun-Li and Guile WAY more, and he's near the bottom in the competitive scene.

I'm not surprised you disagree, so I'll just drop that point, even if I disagree with you.

He's the mascot. The boring, basic character that uses the same moveset as, like, 5 of the other characters.

You're kind of proving the point. Ryu is so iconic to the series and the gameplay he has five other clones.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I'm gonna be so happy when it isnt Spring man that is announced.


No. It isnt. Street Fighter has had many iterations, and it is generally supported that Ryu is the fan favorite.

Yet in ARMS, the clear frontrunners for fan favorites were Twintelle and Min Min.

I am going to quote this so this post can live for eternity and when/if Spring Man is announced, you'll reflect on this.

Anywho, Ryu is the posterboy for Street Fighter. He is THE Street Fighter character. He's the one they promote/use the most for Street Fighter. Spring Man is the character they used for ARMS like Ryu. If Twintelle/Min Min wanted to be the THE ARMS character then they would have the promotion they had.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm gonna be so happy when it isnt Spring man that is announced.


No. It isnt. Street Fighter has had many iterations, and it is generally supported that Ryu is the fan favorite.

Yet in ARMS, the clear frontrunners for fan favorites were Twintelle and Min Min.

I don't know what else to do except facepalm and give up.

 

[NintenRob]

Skull Kid is my most wanted so I'm probably very biased, but I reckon some people underestimate him.

Of course there is no doubt in my mind that I overestimate his chances

 

[?????????????]

You're kind of proving the point. Ryu is so iconic to the series and the gameplay he has five other clones.

If we're using that as a "point," Spring Man is the ONLY character with a clone.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm gonna be so happy when it isnt Spring man that is announced.


No. It isnt. Street Fighter has had many iterations, and it is generally supported that Ryu is the fan favorite.

Yet in ARMS, the clear frontrunners for fan favorites were Twintelle and Min Min.

I would say it takes more than being the “fan favorite” especially when the main character isn’t in yet. I could totally see Twintelle or Min Min as great choices, but they’d likely come after Spring Man.

Also, being honest and I mean no disrespect, but saying “i’m Going to be so happy when Spring Man isn’t the one announced” makes it seem like you don’t have responses for what is being suggested, and you’re just saying, “You’ll see, you’ll ALL see”, and being passive aggressive. I may be interpreting that the wrong way, and I apologize if I am.

I agree that the two are great choices for ARMS. But I honestly believe it would be with or after Spring Man.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I am going to quote this so this post can live for eternity and when/if Spring Man is announced, you'll reflect on this.

Anywho, Ryu is the posterboy for Street Fighter. He is THE Street Fighter character. He's the one they promote/use the most for Street Fighter. Spring Man is the character they used for ARMS like Ryu. If Twintelle/Min Min wanted to be the THE ARMS character then they would have the promotion they had.

ARMS has been out for one iteration. Can we stop relating it to a legacy game with a plethora of other games? A single example is not a trend.

I don't know what else to do except facepalm and give up.

You could try to explain your point of view. Let's look at anything in ARMS other than the boxart.
Like gameplay. Or content. Or the fanbase. Or literally anything else.

I would say it takes more than being the “fan favorite” especially when the main character isn’t in yet. I could totally see Twintelle or Min Min as great choices, but they’d likely come after Spring Man.

Also, being honest and I mean no disrespect, but saying “i’m Going to be so happy when Spring Man isn’t the one announced” makes it seem like you don’t have responses for what is being suggested, and you’re just saying, “You’ll see, you’ll ALL see”, and being passive aggressive. I may be interpreting that the wrong way, and I apologize if I am.

I agree that the two are great choices for ARMS. But I honestly believe it would be with or after Spring Man.

There is literally nothing being suggested. Am I missing responses other than "he is the main character because he is on the box?" I am reading fifteen identical responses to each of my post, so honestly, I might be missing it.
But being on the box of the first game does not make you the main character. There is no main character.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Why on Earth is the consensus that Spring Man is the poster child and main character of ARMS? Please, several of you explain your points of view to me, because I am truly baffled.

Being on the boxart does not make you the main character, nor the mascot. Venusaur and Charizard were not the main characters of Pokemon, and the newer games with the legendaries are damn well even further from being the main characters.

He was the first character shown off
He's on the box
He's the first character on the menu which is the main character spot 90% of the time
I think you're even forced to use him in the tutorial?
Out of all the characters HE is the one chosen to get an Evil Ryu (Springtron). Not twintelle, not Min-min, Spring Man
He's the main character.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I'm seeing some unreasonable expectations in other threads for this new entry in the series. There are some people who are even asking for the ability to switch to physics of 64 and Melee, some other stuff that is way too technical and unnecessary to have in a Smash game. I mean, people can dream but some wishes are so over the top that is not a wonder how they end up dissapointed. And for some reason, the Smash devs seem to be the only ones who get hit by this unsurmountable expectations. I don't see the Street Fighter crowd demanding for their game to have the ability to become an entirely different one, and that is a series that is catered to the more hardcore crowd.

Anyways, I see some people who see BotW Link and say that is an entirely new character from Link, but alternate costumes can be a thing. If BotW Link is the default one, he can still have the same moveset but just having blue bombs and he can still have the hookshot/clawshot. I know that he doesn't have one in his game, but liberties can be taken. Although, the best scenerio to me is that they could have the same character but with the ability to switch between different movesets before battle. Injustice 2 does this, where some characters have updated movesets but they also have access to their old ones. I also feel that costumes will be more prominent this time around. We can have Link from TP, Ocarina, SS and BotW; and Samus with her different armors from all of her games. Killer Instinct and again Injustice 2 are two examples that apply this feature effectively. Smash definitely could learn a few things from those modern fighting titles.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

I really hope they start spoon feeding us tiny bits of information soon. Call me gluttonous, but if the game truly is coming out this year, I expect *some* more info well before E3. Otherwise it's going to be a rough wait... I'd love to be this guy after E3 though.

Spoiler

Would love to trade my Speculation Milkshakes for Smash Switch Knowledge Pancakes....
(it was the Wreck-It-Ralph 2 pancake eating bunny, but it was a gif and wasn't working properly, so use your imagination if you still want to find this sad attempt at a joke funny)

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Im not understating anything, and I'm honestly not sure if you read what I said as I wrote it (unless I descibed my point of view that poorly).

I made a proposed modification but wasn't explicit enough about it and you understandably missed it.

My idea is that eevee would have a base set of moves. Such as tackle, scratch, tail whip, and growl. And then as he evolves, into one of 8 (or more in future) options, the effects and visuals of those moves would change.
The idea is that you could get a feel for your opponent with Eevee, and then evolve it based on what suits your match best.

My point is that Eevee would be terrible to play as. Cute, but plainer than Mario. There isn't even as much to do with choreography given the quadrupedal part, there's just nothing there.
So I suggested skipping Eevee entirely and having it be a choice between some of the evolutions for each stock, but the problem of how much is recycled is still unclear (and it would be even if you reject my earlier suggestion).
If you want to properly represent the better ones well, then there can't be that much overlap at all.
What that leaves is having effectively multiple full characters in a single slot so that you can counterpick in-match, which is in danger of being completely unbalanced 1v1 because it means that you can basically have a decent-to-positive matchup no matter who you're against.
And if that's not what that means, then the premise isn't actually being executed on, unless they're all underpowered, and the matchup advantage is just mitigating that.
Never mind, I guess I answered my own interrogation. I don't really like how it forces you to pick the better matchup, but that's partly because I'd be partial to playing one of them all the time.

So my only surviving objection to your idea is that playing as Eevee seems terrible, even if it's only temporary.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Why on Earth is the consensus that Spring Man is the poster child and main character of ARMS? Please, several of you explain your points of view to me, because I am truly baffled.

Being on the boxart does not make you the main character, nor the mascot. Venusaur and Charizard were not the main characters of Pokemon, and the newer games with the legendaries are damn well even further from being the main characters.

• He's on the main boxart.
• He's the first character on the selection screen.
• First character they showed off.
• He's on most of the promotion for the game.
• He's the beginner character for people in ARMS.
• Type in ARMS Nintendo on Google.
  
• Spoiler: Spoiler Alert
• Spoiler: Bonus

 

[pupNapoleon]

He was the first character shown off
He's on the box
He's the first character on the menu which is the main character spot 90% of the time
I think you're even forced to use him in the tutorial?
Out of all the characters HE is the one chosen to get an Evil Ryu (Springtron). Not twintelle, not Min-min, Spring Man
He's the main character.

ARMS is not exactly a simple to comprehend game. It was a new IP and a big risk for Nintendo to put so much of its resources into. It makes perfect sense that they would start with a character that is simple in concept and more relatable.
Then as fans start to understand the basic tenants of the game (like a tutorial), they start to add more interesting and complex characters.

I don't recall being forced to use him in the tutorial. Or anywhere. But I can give you a point for Springtron, and that is a valid point. But being the first character introduced doesnt count for much, at least not to me.

Maybe terminology is the issue here. ARMS is 100% ensemble, with no character being more or less important as far as the game goes. Just like in the TV show Friends, there is no main character.
But... being the most prominent character in the game, I could consent to this being true. Albeit for reasons that seem mostly to help the consumer base grasp the game, rather than because Nintendo was trying to promote him.

 

[?????????????]

Hey, my video is back up! Hooray!

One thing I always think about...I really would like more Zelda characters. There's a lot of great Zelda characters, but I always find it difficult prioritizing one over the other.

My personal favorites for Smash are Tetra, young Impa, BotW old Impa utilizing a "Maz Koshia" styled moveset, pig Ganon wielding the Trident of Power, and Urbosa.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

• He's on the main boxart.
• He's the first character on the selection screen.
• First character they showed off.
• He's on most of the promotion for the game.
• He's the beginner character for people in ARMS.
• Type in ARMS Nintendo on Google.
  
• Spoiler: Spoiler Alert
• Spoiler: Bonus

You shouldn't even have to explain this. Especially to someone who's not listening.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

As far as ARMS representation goes, my ideal roster would have Spring Man with Ribbon Girl as a clone. Both have a unique ARM-switching feature to go with the playstyle of zoned-brawler, though they have different stats and different ARM setups with different effects to differentiate themselves.

 

[Hoots]

Everyone overlooking the top contenders for Smash being Steve and Goku because Minecraft and Xenoverse 2 are on switch.

I unironically think that Goku will be a newcomer in Smash for Switch. After the sheer absurdity of Smash 4's roster, all bets are off and all of our "principles" for the roster we had thought are thrown out the window. And the ONLY character that can one up Cloud Strife as far as shock value (which is something they explicitly care about) is Goku.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think it boils down to, if:

They wouldn’t add Luigi before Mario
They wouldn’t add another Poke before Pikachu
They wouldn’t add Zelda before Link
They wouldn’t add Reyn before Shulk

Then they probably won’t make the exception for ARMS and add a separate roster character other than Spring Man...first. Spring Man is the basic “get to know the game” character like Ryu is to Street Fighter. Smash is a vehicle for getting to know games, kind of like Marth was for FE. Spring Man does wonders for that.

Again, Twintelle and Min Min are great. They would just be after Spring Man.

To be fair, i’ve also seen little reason to believe Spring Man wouldn’t be the first character.

 

[?????????????]

I unironically think that Goku will be a newcomer in Smash for Switch. After the sheer absurdity of Smash 4's roster, all bets are off and all of our "principles" for the roster we had thought are thrown out the window. And the ONLY character that can one up Cloud Strife as far as shock value (which is something they explicitly care about) is Goku.

I'm not counting on Goku at all.

But IF...IF they decided to "break the mold" again and start adding characters that did not originate from video games...I think Goku would be one of if not the most likely.

 

[pupNapoleon]

You shouldn't even have to explain this. Especially to someone who's not listening.

I'm reading, trust me. I just dont happen to think any of those statements make a character a main character.

Since, according to what you quoted from Rocket, we can google anything for an answer, here is the googled answer of what a main character is:
A protagonist (from Ancient Greek πρωταγωνιστής (protagonistes), meaning 'player of the first part, (chief actor)' is the main character in any story, such as a literary work or drama. ... In those forms the protagonist may simply be the leading actor, or the principal character in the story.

A game without a story of any degree has no main character.
And I do apologize for not starting with that as my explanation from the very beginning.

 

[Luminario]

I have to agree that Spring Man is the most logical choice here. Twintelle and Min Min offer so much more than Springy over there, but the roster was likely decided years ago before anyone saw how beloved these two girls were. Springy along with Ribbon Girl are the safest bet all that time ago.

On the subject of Eevee by the way, I'd love to see Pokemon Trainer re-implemented as an actual fighter, but instead of fighting themselves they summon Eeveelutions to fight for them. Examples being: jab having Eevee blink into existence next to PT to do a 3 part combo, down smash having Vaporeon create a splash of water on each side, back air having Leafeon swipe down hard with Leaf Blade tail, grab being Sylveon to constrict the opponent with it's feelers. Just like how in Sun and Moon you call Pokemon instantly with the Ride Pager, a similar concept happens here where they blink onto the battlefield it a tiny ball of light to perform the current move. A bit of a stretch I know but a girl can dream.
Eevee, by virtue of being Eevee, is one of the few Pokemon that remain eternally relevant thanks to the many evolutions it can gain.

 

[Lord-Zero]

Since we’re talking about potential future rosters, might as well throw mine before going to bed. Potential newcomers (totally biased) are in bold.

Super Mario Bros.

- Mario
- Peach
- Bowser
- Bowser Jr. (+ Koopalings)
- Rosalina
- Luigi

WarioWare

- Wario
- Ashley

Donkey Kong

- Donkey Kong
- Diddy Kong

Zelda

- BotW Link
- TP Zelda
- HW Ganondorf (or original design)
- OoT Sheik (HW or original design)
- Toon Link
- Lana

Metroid

- Samus
- ZS Samus

Star Fox

- Fox
- Falco

Kid Icarus

- Pit
- Palutena
- Reworked Dark Pit, Medusa, Viridi or Hades

Earthbound

- Ness
- Lucas

Fire Emblem

- Marth
- Ike
- Robin
- Corrin
- FE 16 Protagonist or Chrom gets redeemed

Pokemon

- Pikachu
- Jigglypuff
- Mewtwo
- Charizard
- Lucario
- Greninja
- Decidueye, Bewear, an Ultra Beast or a Gen 8 Pokemon

Kirby

- Kirby
- Meta-Knight
- King Dedede

Xenoblade

- Shulk
- Rex’s pants

Misc 1st-2nd Party

- Mr. G & W
- Duck Hunt
- Cpt. Falcon
- Yoshi
- R.O.B.
- Olimar
- WFT
- Little Mac
- Bayonetta
- Inkling

3rd Party

- Sonic
- Mega Man
- PAC-MAN
- Free Space
- Free Space

Other Potential 1st Party Newcomers

- Spring Man
- Free Space
- Free Space
- Free Space
- Free Space