• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

LunchmanJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
222
And again, which ones are "technically both Smash reps". Please quote only the relevant passages when replying to me. If you're not replying to a part of my post, why even quote it?

How is it actually more useful though? That isn't explained at all. They already have official symbols, so it's not like they aren't organized easily. Is it more useful to you when making the actual roster image? Or something else? Please explain more of what you mean.
I cut Dark Pit and Robin counts as a Fire Emblem rep. ZSS, Puff, Roy, Ice Climbers, and Sheik are Smash reps in my roster. This does not mean they are from the Smash series but rather that they are notable through Smash. You have to have a passive, accepting, and not-looking-at-things-literally/only-at-face-value mindset to understand what I'm thinking. Think this. Why should Puff, Roy, ZSS, Sheik, and Ice Climbers be in Smash? Puff hasn't been notable in the games EVER and was only was a sidekick in the anime for a while and not since then. Roy is a one off clone character who is not even relevant. ZSS is a repeat of a character that represents nothing important. Sheik is a one off repeat, and Ice Climbers comes from an obscure old game nobody liked. So why are they so deserving? Because of their appearances in Smash. But wait, these characters stick out like a sore thumb next to the all stars of the series, and they don't really represent their series because they are not notable through their series. Solution? Smash reps.

And guys, you have to admit that at least some of the stuff I say makes sense.
 
Last edited:

Blue_Sword_Edge

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
1,166
NNID
Blue_Sword_Edge
3DS FC
1633-5415-5386
I'm suddenly intrigued. Can you tell me more please?
Sure thing.

The Namco half of Bandai Namco back in the PS1 era of Namco Museum collections had a full blown museum style of content viewing and playing the games. There was three volumes of those games. You can explore the classic arcade games in these halls. The obvious part is playing the arcade classics.

This video explains this better than I can.


In short, I want to expand the Vault with this method to all of the franchises in Smash (Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, etc.). Each hall would contain everything of that franchise (trophies, music, accessories, character models, some interactable parts of the franchises halls, history of games and/or development and whatever else) as if players were actually there in that franchise's universe or multiverse. Outside of the halls, there's is a hub to get to the places you'd want to check out, interact with friends, and even use some accessories that are interactive. Of course I would suggest a list version as a "Get-on-with-it" option to skip the museum. I imagine players would runaround the halls as Miis. Of course, the Smash devs can pull this off better than I can.
 
Last edited:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,011
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
I cut Dark Pit and Robin counts as a Fire Emblem rep. ZSS, Puff, Roy, Ice Climbers, and Sheik are Smash reps in my roster. This does not mean they are from the Smash series but rather that they are notable through Smash. You have to have a passive, accepting, and not-looking-at-things-literally/only-at-face-value mindset to understand what I'm thinking. Think this. Why should Puff, Roy, ZSS, Sheik, and Ice Climbers be in Smash? Puff hasn't been notable in the games EVER and was only was a sidekick in the anime for a while and not since then. Roy is a one off clone character who is not even relevant. ZSS is a repeat of a character that represents nothing important. Sheik is a one off repeat, and Ice Climbers comes from an obscure old game nobody liked. So why are they so deserving? Because of their appearances in Smash. But wait, these characters stick out like a sore thumb next to the all stars of the series, and they don't really represent their series because they are not notable through their series. Solution? Smash reps.
Well, I don't agree with the logic, but I get it now.

Problems with what you said though; Jigglypuff was highly relevant and popular in the games too because of the anime. You also are entirely ignoring her being retconned to a Fairy type, making her relevant in Gen VI. She also was absolutely relevant in some spin-offs. She still is about Pokemon first. She is not kept relevant solely cause of Smash. Some are, sure.

Ice Climbers I can see your point on, but an issue comes with the fact that it only had one game. So it's not like it could become relevant outside of that game, and they're the protagonists. So it has a different situation than the others. Also, "nobody liked" is a really bad phrase to use, since that's a load of bull. Don't use your bias to determine reality for fans of series and gamers alike. Do research instead to know what they actually think.

Roy is the main protagonist of his own game and constant DLC and in various FE games as is. He is absolutely relevant. He was just lower priority than some others. Relevance doesn't mean they're high priority. Mewtwo is an example of why they are not the same thing.

ZSS is not some repeat. I don't know where you get that idea. She's a completely different version of Samus that represents who she is outside of the robotic suit. A repeat suggests they're practically the same character in design(as in, a clone). Also, she is highly relevant and constantly in games, so that makes the idea of that kind of silly. She also originated in Zero Mission, so, again, was relevant at the time too. It's her breakout game for that form of the character.

Sheik was planned to be in Twilight Princess at one point, and the concept art kept her in Smash. That means she was supposed to be both relevant and a continuously used character. Smash didn't actually keep her relevant so much as Nintendo's own plans. She's also in Hyrule Warriors, and Sakurai blatantly thought of giving her a Toon version at one point as shown in Brawl's data. She's actually pretty important. She's also a character people recognize outside of Smash.

Here's a question; why isn't Captain Falcon a Smash rep then? He hasn't had a new game since forever, and is only relevant because of Smash now. It wasn't because of concept art or the idea that he was supposed to be relevant outside of it. He's in the same position as Ice Climbers. Even Roy is far more relevant due to more official Fire Emblem appearances.

This is kind of my point; your relevancy argument doesn't work for every single character and there's a lot of unique context of why they are still in Smash. And not all of it is "because Smash keeps 'em relevant and they're popular veterans".

And guys, you have to admit that at least some of the stuff I say makes sense.
Considering you got a ton of stuff wrong, I don't see why we need to. You don't understand a lot of the characters and their histories, or even their current game appearances. When at best the only character point you have right is Ice Climbers(who actually are a retro pick, meaning they were not added due to being a popular character beforehand, and thus, their popularity in Smash isn't nearly as relevant as why they were picked in the first place), and that's kind of iffy, it's kind of an issue. Your arguments have holes in them.

You should start reading Sakurai's articles on character inclusions. I'm sure @PushDustIn can hook you up on more information. You'd easily understand why they're there. To end with, the symbols that represent a character are not random and always have meaning. The ones with a Smash Symbol is there because, as I said, either the character or the moveset is entirely made up for Smash. In the case of Bosses, it can be both. It has nothing to do with representing Smash Bros. specifically in any way, so much as where they originated from that matters.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Sure thing.

The Namco half of Bandai Namco back in the PS1 era of Namco Museum collections had a full blown museum style of content viewing and playing the games. There was three volumes of those games. You can explore the classic arcade games in these halls. The obvious part is playing the arcade classics.

This video explains this better than I can.


In short, I want to expand the Vault with this method to all of the franchises in Smash (Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, etc.). Each hall would contain everything of that franchise (trophies, music, accessories, character models, some interactable parts of the franchises halls, history of games and/or development and whatever else) as if players were actually there in that franchise's universe or multiverse. Outside of the halls, there's is a hub to get to the places you'd want to check out, interact with friends, and even use some accessories that are interactive. Of course I would suggest a list version as a "Get-on-with-it" option to skip the museum. I imagine players would runaround the halls as Miis. Of course, the Smash devs can pull this off better than I can.
Certainly sounds like an interesting concept. I'd be all over that.
 

Blue_Sword_Edge

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
1,166
NNID
Blue_Sword_Edge
3DS FC
1633-5415-5386
Certainly sounds like an interesting concept. I'd be all over that.
So would I, providing it was done right. I imagined Peach's Castle circa N64 design would be a perfect hall for the Super Mario cast with the rooms modified for each purpose I provided in my earlier post.

I could talk about this and some other franchises' possibilities for a Smash Museum all day.
 

LunchmanJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
222
Well, I don't agree with the logic, but I get it now.

Problems with what you said though; Jigglypuff was highly relevant and popular in the games too because of the anime. You also are entirely ignoring her being retconned to a Fairy type, making her relevant in Gen VI. She also was absolutely relevant in some spin-offs. She still is about Pokemon first. She is not kept relevant solely cause of Smash. Some are, sure.

Ice Climbers I can see your point on, but an issue comes with the fact that it only had one game. So it's not like it could become relevant outside of that game, and they're the protagonists. So it has a different situation than the others. Also, "nobody liked" is a really bad phrase to use, since that's a load of bull. Don't use your bias to determine reality for fans of series and gamers alike. Do research instead to know what they actually think.

Roy is the main protagonist of his own game and constant DLC and in various FE games as is. He is absolutely relevant. He was just lower priority than some others. Relevance doesn't mean they're high priority. Mewtwo is an example of why they are not the same thing.

ZSS is not some repeat. I don't know where you get that idea. She's a completely different version of Samus that represents who she is outside of the robotic suit. A repeat suggests they're practically the same character in design(as in, a clone). Also, she is highly relevant and constantly in games, so that makes the idea of that kind of silly. She also originated in Zero Mission, so, again, was relevant at the time too. It's her breakout game for that form of the character.

Sheik was planned to be in Twilight Princess at one point, and the concept art kept her in Smash. That means she was supposed to be both relevant and a continuously used character. Smash didn't actually keep her relevant so much as Nintendo's own plans. She's also in Hyrule Warriors, and Sakurai blatantly thought of giving her a Toon version at one point as shown in Brawl's data. She's actually pretty important. She's also a character people recognize outside of Smash.

Here's a question; why isn't Captain Falcon a Smash rep then? He hasn't had a new game since forever, and is only relevant because of Smash now. It wasn't because of concept art or the idea that he was supposed to be relevant outside of it. He's in the same position as Ice Climbers. Even Roy is far more relevant due to more official Fire Emblem appearances.

This is kind of my point; your relevancy argument doesn't work for every single character and there's a lot of unique context of why they are still in Smash. And not all of it is "because Smash keeps 'em relevant and they're popular veterans".


Considering you got a ton of stuff wrong, I don't see why we need to. You don't understand a lot of the characters and their histories, or even their current game appearances. When at best the only character point you have right is Ice Climbers(who actually are a retro pick, meaning they were not added due to being a popular character beforehand, and thus, their popularity in Smash isn't nearly as relevant as why they were picked in the first place), and that's kind of iffy, it's kind of an issue. Your arguments have holes in them.

You should start reading Sakurai's articles on character inclusions. I'm sure @PushDustIn can hook you up on more information. You'd easily understand why they're there. To end with, the symbols that represent a character are not random and always have meaning. The ones with a Smash Symbol is there because, as I said, either the character or the moveset is entirely made up for Smash. In the case of Bosses, it can be both. It has nothing to do with representing Smash Bros. specifically in any way, so much as where they originated from that matters.
Like we all knew the fairy types.

OK.

Roy being lower priority is enough to make him a Smash rep. Relevancy also includes how big a character was in their latest appearance, and Roy is kinda minor in his latest games.

Samus is Samus. Plus ZSS is still in my roster technically representing Metroid.

I'm talking about my IDEAL roster. Ideal rosters don't give pig about likelyness.

I consider Captain Falcon to be a Retro character, and F-Zero is damn notable.

Here's my roster so you can understand me better (it's second to the bottom): https://smashboards.com/threads/early-smash-5-fan-made-rosters-ideal-or-prediction.435513/page-25
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
So would I, providing it was done right. I imagined Peach's Castle circa N64 design would be a perfect hall for the Super Mario cast with the rooms modified for each purpose I provided in my earlier post.

I could talk about this and some other franchises' possibilities for a Smash Museum all day.
Let's see if I can come out with a few ideas...
Link's house (ALttP/ALBW) - Zelda
Chozo ruins (Zero Mission) - Metroid
Hub World (Return to Dreamland) - Kirby
Great Fox - Star Fox
Kukui's Lab (Pokemon Sun and Moon) Pokemon
Barracks (FE: Awakening) - Fire Emblem
I tried to get ideas from the games I played from those series (For Star Fox, I never actually played any of the games, it just seemed like the most logical choice). What do you think?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,011
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Like we all knew the fairy types.
We did. Very much did. She was pretty much the second most known one, with the other notable ones being Clefairy and Sylveon. Smash itself didn't give her new Fairy moves though.

To note, it just seems weird how you're doing it with the Smash reps. I'm not sure if being retro inherently matters, but it is true that Smash is keeping IC's inherently relevant.

Roy being lower priority is enough to make him a Smash rep. Relevancy also includes how big a character was in their latest appearance, and Roy is kinda minor in his latest games.
That's now what lower priority means. Mewtwo, even when relevant, was lower priority. It was one of the most promoted new Megas and got in as DLC too. It just means some characters are supposed to be in Smash first if there's specific options among a franchise. Jigglypuff is higher priority than Mewtwo solely due to how easy the moveset is to make and was more relevant in the anime too.

Samus is Samus. Plus ZSS is still in my roster technically representing Metroid.
She's either a representation of Smash or a representation of Metroid. Which one is it? You're backpedaling.

I'm talking about my IDEAL roster. Ideal rosters don't give pig about likelyness.
That wasn't why I said that. I said that because your Smash rep argument is based heavily around relevancy, but doesn't actually fit what actually happened in creation of the games. Thus, your argument is based upon incorrect information and is heavily flawed.

I consider Captain Falcon to be a Retro character, and F-Zero is damn notable.
F-Zero is an entirely dead series. Also, he was put in while F-Zero was an active series. That's... kind of odd. Especially since he is not actually retro yet falls under IC's point of being solely kept relevant due to Smash.

Here's my roster so you can understand me better (it's second to the bottom): https://smashboards.com/threads/early-smash-5-fan-made-rosters-ideal-or-prediction.435513/page-25
Already read it. I addressed all that in the thread itself. Your reasoning of keeping Snake out doesn't make sense when he has more history than Banjo & Kazooie did(one of the main points I made), and actually a bigger history too. If you want to reply to the exact arguments there(by multi-quoting my posts), sounds good. Albeit, I don't know if we can continue it there, as @Zebei said to end the conversation.
 

LunchmanJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
222
We did. Very much did. She was pretty much the second most known one, with the other notable ones being Clefairy and Sylveon. Smash itself didn't give her new Fairy moves though.
I'm talking about casuals.
To note, it just seems weird how you're doing it with the Smash reps. I'm not sure if being retro inherently matters, but it is true that Smash is keeping IC's inherently relevant.
Retro characters matter in a case by case basis. R.O.B. saved the industry, Game and Watch represents the highly selling and well known back then Game and Watch games, Little Mac and Captain Falcon represent highly selling but dead franchises, and Ice Climbers is pathetically just a Smash rep.
That's now what lower priority means. Mewtwo, even when relevant, was lower priority. It was one of the most promoted new Megas and got in as DLC too. It just means some characters are supposed to be in Smash first if there's specific options among a franchise. Jigglypuff is higher priority than Mewtwo solely due to how easy the moveset is to make and was more relevant in the anime too.
Mewtwo is also one of the most well known, consistently relevant, aand well liked Pokemon. What competition does he have?

She's either a representation of Smash or a representation of Metroid. Which one is it? You're backpedaling.
Both.

That wasn't why I said that. I said that because your Smash rep argument is based heavily around relevancy, but doesn't actually fit what actually happened in creation of the games. Thus, your argument is based upon incorrect information and is heavily flawed.
I don't care about Sakurai's standards.
 
Last edited:

Blue_Sword_Edge

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
1,166
NNID
Blue_Sword_Edge
3DS FC
1633-5415-5386
Let's see if I can come out with a few ideas...
Link's house (ALttP/ALBW) - Zelda
Chozo ruins (Zero Mission) - Metroid
Hub World (Return to Dreamland) - Kirby
Great Fox - Star Fox
Kukui's Lab (Pokemon Sun and Moon) Pokemon
Barracks (FE: Awakening) - Fire Emblem
I tried to get ideas from the games I played from those series (For Star Fox, I never actually played any of the games, it just seemed like the most logical choice). What do you think?
For Star Fox, that idea is perfect if it were inside of the Great Fox.

Kukui's Lab would be great if we're still in the current generation of Pokémon.

As for Link's House from LttP and ALBW, I think I would go with Hyrule Castle instead. As for the design of the Castle, I don't which game would be fitting for it. Link's house would be a little small and would be a bit cramping if it were strictly inside.

The Barracks from Fire Emblem is a good idea, but I'd keep the Barracks series neutral for every Fire Emblem fan. I can see an Anna running an accessory store, hands down (Smash coins as currency, of course.)

As for Metroid with the Chozo Ruins, I have no objections to that.

I haven't played Return to Dreamland, but I think a Hub World could work for a Kirby hall.

You mostly hit some good ideas here. I can see where I'd place the Masterpieces, accessory stores, model viewing, jukeboxes, history areas, trophy display areas, and much more.
 
Last edited:

Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,966
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
Delzethin
Why should Zero Suit be included in Smash? What is she supposed to represent when we got Ridley and Sylux to replace her?
That's not how it works. ZSS is another side of Samus who fights completely differently than she does when fully armored. It's not about "representation", it's about providing a unique set of abilities to make the roster that much more interesting, and this rendition of Samus fit the bill for Brawl and hasn't had any reason to be too low priority to miss the cut yet.

Despite how often the fans assume it'll happen, Smash characters don't just get replaced by others. It's like how people assumed Lucario replaced Mewtwo in Brawl just because their neutral specials are similar, except it turned out Mewtwo was planned for the game all along but fell short of the roster due to time constraints. Or like how people figured Chrom would replace Ike, except it turned out Chrom was considered independently of Ike and didn't make it due to concerns that he wouldn't stand out very well.

For whatever reason, the general Smash fanbase has created their own rules for how the rosters are made...except they're nothing like the guidelines the actual developers have used!
 
Last edited:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,011
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
I'm talking about casuals.

Retro characters matter in a case by case basis. R.O.B. saved the industry, Game and Watch represents the highly selling and well known back then Game and Watch games, Little Mac and Captain Falcon represent highly selling but dead franchises, and Ice Climbers is pathetically just a Smash rep.

Mewtwo is also one of the most well known, consistently relevant, aand well liked Pokemon. What competition does he have?

Both.

I don't care about Sakurai's standards.
Sorry, you lost me. You're just splitting up your posts with loose paragraphs while not multi-quoting, something that makes it actually easy to see what you're specifically replying to. I keep getting lost with your points because you refuse to mult-quote, despite it being super easy as is. I'll gladly explain the code to you, though, if you want. But if you're not going to bother, then I can't debate like this. Your posts are extremely confusing and very poorly formatted to the point that it's hard to actually debate with you at all.

I think I actually replied to you in the other topic even showing you how to multi-quote. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Lastly, when I say multi-quoting, that means quoting each paragraph separately so we know what points you're actually replying to. Just splitting up your posts is barely comprehensible.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

Spiciest of Guacamoles
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
77,179
Location
somewhere in Canada
Switch FC
SW-4202-4979-0504
Despite how often the fans assume it'll happen, Smash characters don't just get replaced by others. It's like how people assumed Lucario replaced Mewtwo in Brawl just because their neutral specials are similar, except it turned out Mewtwo was a late cut who was planned for the game all along. Or like how people figured Chrom would replace Ike, except it turned out Chrom was considered independently of Ike and didn't make it due to concerns that he wouldn't stand out very well.
Toon Link did replace Young Link though.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,011
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Toon Link did replace Young Link though.
Nottttttt exactly. It's just an upgrade. Like how OOT Link was "replaced" by Twilight Princess Link. It's the same idea.

He however does have a different artstyle, so got a new name. It's a graphical upgrade. Remember, TP Link isn't the same person as OOT Link either. So it's the same situation as Young Link's change to Toon Link.

And even then, let's be realistic; while Sakurai never even implies it's a replacement at all(he treats Toon Link as the same concept as Young Link entirely, being a child clone with the same moveset), either. It's like how he doesn't say Link got replaced by TP Link either.

Think about it; the Zelda cast all got graphical upgrades with their latest designs(Sheik being a concept art). Ganondorf plays very differently, as literal as the difference between Young Link and Toon Link, with a new artstyle too. They're even more similar in that regard. Toon Link is just the entire Zelda cast getting a graphical upgrade. He just got a new name fitting his graphical upgrade.
 

LunchmanJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
222
Sorry, you lost me. You're just splitting up your posts with loose paragraphs while not multi-quoting, something that makes it actually easy to see what you're specifically replying to. I keep getting lost with your points because you refuse to mult-quote, despite it being super easy as is. I'll gladly explain the code to you, though, if you want. But if you're not going to bother, then I can't debate like this. Your posts are extremely confusing and very poorly formatted to the point that it's hard to actually debate with you at all.

I think I actually replied to you in the other topic even showing you how to multi-quote. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Lastly, when I say multi-quoting, that means quoting each paragraph separately so we know what points you're actually replying to. Just splitting up your posts is barely comprehensible.
I edited my post to make it more comprehensible.
 
Last edited:

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,967
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
Zero Suit Samus represents SPEED RUNS... the thing Metroid fans are absolutely 100% dedicated about. They care more about stripping Samus half naked with the best possible time than they care about Ridley. Ridley is just missile nuke bait for them. 100% tru fax here, don't bother to even argue. :4zss:

No seriously, speed runs and Metroid really go hand in hand. And I still think ZSS is the best possible second Metroid character even if I dislike how she's literally 2740999 x better than regular Samus because of canon and stuff.
 

Blue_Sword_Edge

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
1,166
NNID
Blue_Sword_Edge
3DS FC
1633-5415-5386
I think so. I believe I saw someone post that feature. It was probably you. Very good idea.
I have talked about this style of a Smash Museum before on the boards, here. I wouldn't mind other people talking about it. In fact, I encourage people to talk about it.
 
Last edited:

Bowserlick

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
5,136
I have talked about this style of a Smash Museum before on the boards, here. I wouldn't mind other people talking about it. In fact, I encourage people to talk about it.
I have put your user_name in my computer notes (creepy). I will give you credit if I mention again (which I probably will).

Now, that I looked up this thread and saw your example, it was definitely you. In a game that celebrates worlds and characters, a museum underlines and showcases that point.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,011
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
I'm talking about casuals.
Fair enough. Not that it changes much, since it was relevant to the series.

Retro characters matter in a case by case basis. R.O.B. saved the industry, Game and Watch represents the highly selling and well known back then Game and Watch games, Little Mac and Captain Falcon represent highly selling but dead franchises, and Ice Climbers is pathetically just a Smash rep.
I presume you mean just for your roster, then? Because it's different for when the actual retro characters were chosen.

Mewtwo is also one of the most well known, consistently relevant, aand well liked Pokemon. What competition does he have?
Consistently relevant? Not really. And lots of competition. He was only relevant due to a movie(the only reason he was even acknowledged for Smash), has few anime appearances, and wasn't relevant outside of Gen 1 till he was actually catchable in a few remakes/special games. He had some tiny appearances, but Jigglypuff was actually easier to find and get in more games. He's not even catchable in quite a few games and has few events. He's only catchable in Red, Blue, Yellow, FireRed, LeafGreen, HeartGold, SoulSilver, X, and Y. That's ignoring side games, of course. It had only 4 events, and that was due to having 2 games per generation in general, but overall had 8 unique event download options. That's hardly "huge" by any means. Pal Park too, mind you, but that wasn't much unique. It does have a decent role as a boss in a few side games, though. But only Pokemon Ranger makes it important to the game's story at best. So that is only one real relevant appearance overall among side games.

So competition? Every relevant new Pokemon who is vastly more promoted lately already gives it competition. Jigglypuff is consistently showing up and easily available farrrrrr more often. It's a bit more popular in side games, yes, but isn't even available in Gen II ones. Jigglypuff is catchable without unique events or anything in every single mainline game without fail. It's also one of the fastest Pokemon you can get to among the main list in Pokemon Conquest. Many Pokemon were treated as notable for that game(also known as Nobunaga's Ambition). Also is in pretty much the same amount of side games as Mewtwo. So it's pretty obvious that the balloon Pokemon is kept relevant by being consistent available. Mewtwo wasn't nearly as much. Some of the time you needed a different set of games to even get Mewtwo into a particular one. Besides some downloadable events, which weren't available worldwide. Really, the only notable thing Mewtwo had that was relevant was the movies, the 1 episode appearance in the anime, and Gen 1, at least till Gen VI made it actually relevant against with the Mega Evolution. They're both iconic Pokemon. Having two movies(one that was TV only) didn't make it super relevant. Other stuff is true. Definitely popular(as is Jigglypuff), Both are very well known. Jigglypuff has won over Mewtwo in Smash every time as more important. It's not for some silly reason. It's that she's more relevant overall to Pokemon due to her vast more appearances.

Doesn't make sense. She's from Metroid or she's from Smash. It's impossible to be a representation of both. She gets one symbol. Which is it? Because that's what we mean by reps. They are put under a single franchise symbol. Every character has one and one only. Albeit, she's not kept relevant because Smash, so she doesn't really represent Smash anyway, so... yeah.

I don't care about Sakurai's standards.
There's a difference between not caring and not knowing why a character was added. Your posts told me you didn't even know, which is an issue with having an understanding of the purpose of many additions.
 
Last edited:

Blue_Sword_Edge

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
1,166
NNID
Blue_Sword_Edge
3DS FC
1633-5415-5386
I have put your user_name in my computer notes (creepy). I will give you credit if I mention again (which I probably will).

Now, that I looked up this thread and saw your example, it was definitely you. In a game that celebrates worlds and characters, a museum underlines and showcases that point.
I think this feature would be great if Bandai Namco was involved in the next Smash's development, since Namco put that in for their arcade games as part of a PS1 collection spanning three volumes. I say this is more of how I would apply Bandai Namco's idea to Smash since they thought of it first.
 
Last edited:

LunchmanJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
222
Fair enough. Not that it changes much, since it was relevant to the series.


I presume you mean just for your roster, then? Because it's different for when the actual retro characters were chosen.


Consistently relevant? Not really. And lots of competition. He was only relevant due to a movie(the only reason he was even acknowledged for Smash), has zero anime appearances, and wasn't relevant outside of Gen 1 till he was actually catchable in a few remakes/special games. He had some tiny appearances, but Jigglypuff was actually easier to find and get in more games. He's not even catchable in quite a few games and has few events. He's only catchable in Red, Blue, Yellow, FireRed, LeafGreen, HeartGold, SoulSilver, X, and Y. That's ignoring side games, of course. It had only 4 events, and that was due to having 2 games per generation in general, but overall had 8 unique event download options. That's hardly "huge" by any means. Pal Park too, mind you, but that wasn't much unique. It does have a decent role as a boss in a few side games, though. But only Pokemon Ranger makes it important to the game's story at best. So that is only one real relevant appearance overall among side games.

So competition? Every relevant new Pokemon who is vastly more promoted lately already gives it competition. Jigglypuff is consistently showing up and easily available farrrrrr more often. It's a bit more popular in side games, yes, but isn't even available in Gen II ones. Jigglypuff is catchable without unique events or anything in every single mainline game without fail. It's also one of the fastest Pokemon you can get to among the main list in Pokemon Conquest. Many Pokemon were treated as notable for that game(also known as Nobunaga's Ambition). Also is in pretty much the same amount of side games as Mewtwo. So it's pretty obvious that the balloon Pokemon is kept relevant by being consistent available. Mewtwo wasn't nearly as much. Some of the time you needed a different set of games to even get Mewtwo into a particular one. Besides some downloadable events, which weren't available worldwide. Really, the only notable thing Mewtwo had that was relevant was the movies, the 1 episode appearance in the anime, and Gen 1, at least till Gen VI made it actually relevant against with the Mega Evolution. They're both iconic Pokemon. Having two movies(one that was TV only) didn't make it super relevant. Other stuff is true. Definitely popular(as is Jigglypuff), Both are very well known. Jigglypuff has won over Mewtwo in Smash every time as more important. It's not for some silly reason. It's that she's more relevant overall to Pokemon due to her vast more appearances.


Doesn't make sense. She's from Metroid or she's from Smash. It's impossible to be a representation of both. She gets one symbol. Which is it? Because that's what we mean by reps. They are put under a single franchise symbol. Every character has one and one only. Albeit, she's not kept relevant because Smash, so she doesn't really represent Smash anyway, so... yeah.


There's a difference between not caring and not knowing why a character was added. Your posts told me you didn't even know, which is an issue with having an understanding of the purpose of many additions.
I'm sick of this argument. Can you just alternate between reading your post and mine so you can understand?

OK.

Yes.

Very few people keep Jigglypuff as a main pokemon, given that there are stronger pokemon.

In my roster, she has the Metroid icon, but is organized with the Smash reps separate from Power Suit Samus. It's like the three clones (Doc Mario, Dark Pit, Lucina).

I already know! That's why she's in my roster!

Is anyone gonna tell me the frontrunner characters for Fire Emblem (Is it just Lyn, a new lord, and Anna?)or the five best Smash speculation channels and videos?
 

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
33,449
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
Casual reminder that Little Mac is not a retro character. His series got a new entry for the Wii, so it's in the same spot as Kid Icarus.

I'm sick of this argument. Can you just alternate between reading your post and mine so you can understand?

OK.

Yes.

Very few people keep Jigglypuff as a main pokemon, given that there are stronger pokemon.

In my roster, she has the Metroid icon, but is organized with the Smash reps separate from Power Suit Samus. It's like the three clones (Doc Mario, Dark Pit, Lucina).

I already know! That's why she's in my roster!

Is anyone gonna tell me the frontrunner characters for Fire Emblem (Is it just Lyn, a new lord, and Anna?)or the five best Smash speculation channels and videos?
The frontrunner, if anyone, is "Whoever the Main Lord of the Upcoming Switch Title Is, So Long as They Stand Out and Are Feasible." Sakurai looks at the latest game, except in Marth's case so he'd have the series's first hero. Roy got in when Binding Blade was coming out. Ike got in after Path of Radiance. Robin and Lucina got in after Awakening. Corrin got in after Fates. The upcoming Switch title will likely be the most relevant at the time of Smash 5, but that's subject to change. If the main lord is like, say, Alfonse from Heroes and offers nothing new, or if they're locked to fighting on horseback and as such aren't feasible, they'll likely be passed over. In that case they'd likely just keep who we have now, or in a really really outside shot go for someone like Celica or Lyn, but timing isn't on their side.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,011
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
I think he's referring to how much fanservice Mewtwo gets. Reappearing in GS, the remakes, XY having it be one of the only 2 mons with 2 Megas and most recently USM advertised that you can catch 'Mewtwo and other legendaries"
Those are not "consistently relevant" either. To be consistently relevant, it'd have to be every Generation. This is not the case. He's often relevant, but was not actually relevant in Gen II outside of the second movie that took place during Johto. It was only catchable because Johto's games were a continuation of Kanto's, being it was two overall generations split apart. It showed up in the exact same way as Gen 1, which made sense. Also, it's not actually catchable in the original Gen II games, only the remakes. It skipped a generation game-wise outside of slight bits in the side games.

I'm sick of this argument. Can you just alternate between reading your post and mine so you can understand?
I can't. I tried. I'm vastly confused by your posts since their formatting makes it impossible to understand the debate. It's not just me. It's very confusing for everyone reading what we say. It's always important to format posts well. Good grammar. Good spelling. It's nothing more than respect for others. :)

Anyway, you don't want to continue, so I won't. I'm only going to explain why I am having huge trouble with properly debating with you at times. I do admit I say a lot of information(but I also am researching the information as I'm doing this to make sure my data is correct. I made one error last post, which is that Mewtwo has few anime appearances. I did edit the post, but sorry about that).
 

Autumn ♫

I'm terrible with these Custom Titles.
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
7,147
Location
Sakurai's Secret Headquarters
I think he's referring to how much fanservice Mewtwo gets. Reappearing in GS, the remakes, XY having it be one of the only 2 mons with 2 Megas and most recently USM advertised that you can catch 'Mewtwo and other legendaries"
I actually just found out Mewtwo doesn't appear in GSC aside from events, since Cerulean Cave isn't available. I guess the cave was indefinitely blocked somehow. They did fix it in the remakes though.
 

LunchmanJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
222
I think Bayonetta wasn't the number one Smash Ballot choice. I think Sakurai purposefully chose the 11th or 18th character in terms of votes, so that there would be many highly requested characters for Smash 5.
 
Last edited:

TeddyBearYoshi

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
358
Not saying this is where they will go, but I think the smartest thing to do would be to port over the Wii U game as is and use that as a base to build off of, that way all they'd have to do is work on improving the balance and focus on adding new content without having to worry about downsizing the game.
I definitely think that's what's going to happen, but I meant more along the lines of Smash 5 specifically.

How are they going to one-up Sm4sh with a realistic budget and a moderately balanced game?

Also looks like I was incorrect about how long Sm4sh took to develop, apologies. There's no denying that it was definitely expensive, though. Mostly I'm just worried what they could do with the series outside of ports/remakes/etc; that would make people happy.
 
Last edited:

Autumn ♫

I'm terrible with these Custom Titles.
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
7,147
Location
Sakurai's Secret Headquarters
I think Bayonetta wasn't the number one Smash Ballot choice. I think Sakurai purposefully chose the 11th or 18th character in terms of votes, so that there would be many highly requested characters for Smash 5.
She was Number One in Europe, and high up in Japan and NA, so I doubt she was that low.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,011
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
She was Number One in Europe, and high up in Japan and NA, so I doubt she was that low.
Top 5 characters in other Regions, Number 1 in Europe, specifically. She couldn't have been low at all. He gave pretty clear numbers in that regard.

He also noted about being realizable. One thing to also note is it's possible he wanted a 3rd party. Some of the other characters probably did become costumes. Relevancy could've played a role too, and Bayo was pretty relevant at the time. Things like moveset potential, actually being a video game character, and being very easy to license also probably played a role too. Sega was very easy to work with. He had a clear idea of how to make her play, and play really well(to the point a nerf was needed). Obviously many non-video game characters had votes. That's not rocket science. Goku and Shrek weren't entirely memes but there are people that wanted them in. Goku far more so, as he's a very popular and iconic character. And so on.
 

Bowserlick

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
5,136
The frontrunner is Bernie Sanders. Oh, you mean Smash.

Well, Inklings seems pretty high. A DK member, yes. A pokemon, why not?
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
37,936
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
Remember "among realizable characters". Sakurai might be lying.
You have no proof he's lying.

This whole idea of Sakurai deliberately lying to the fanbase is a crazy one.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,011
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
You have no proof he's lying.

This whole idea of Sakurai deliberately lying to the fanbase is a crazy one.
Exactly. Worst thing he did was joke about ZSS being cut. And that was it.

He can sometimes phrase things in a silly way that makes him come off as a bit trollish, but it's all in good fun and he doesn't seriously try to mislead people.
 

LunchmanJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
222
You have no proof he's lying.

This whole idea of Sakurai deliberately lying to the fanbase is a crazy one.
The evidence is Bayonetta. Compare her requests to K. Rool, Snake, Wolf. Kinda seems like the tenth best character to me.

Exactly. Worst thing he did was joke about ZSS being cut. And that was it.

He can sometimes phrase things in a silly way that makes him come off as a bit trollish, but it's all in good fun and he doesn't seriously try to mislead people.
I'm not a troll :( I just am not afraid of challenging the norm. I phrase things in that way because I'm tired of all the old expressions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom